Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[qalavix]

21 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Dunno about MO2, but Vortex complains every time I open it, that "loose files may not get loaded" and if I want to change the timestamp on some files. Mod managers have weird ideas, and all do wyrder thynges without asking.

I am sick to screaming of mandatory tech that 'helps' me without me being able to turn it off or bypass it.  Skynet isn't going to be a psycho military computer; it'll be a combination of Siri and Alexa that'll murder us all, or enslave us Matrix-style.

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Uhmm, no mod should just unequip DD items, that's a recipe for things going wrong.

I utterly believe you.  If only I could pass a few mod-makers along to Mistress, for 'correction'...

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Did you check your inventory for the lock of that DD item? DDs come with two parts, one is the visible ID in the inventory, the other is the invisible lock, typically ID ± 1

You might want to check that by putting all your stuff that aren't quest items in a chest, type player.inv in the console and check for the ID of the collar and of the lock, both should have the 'worn' keyword. Delete that lock, (player.removeitem ID 1) drop the collar in the next abyss, claim a new collar (or let SLtR do that for you) and you should be fine. Leftover locks are the one big problem with DD

And @HexBolt8 said:

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As CaptainJ03 suggested, you can check your inventory for the hidden part of a devious collar that's not visible.  The DD Device Hider is xx040F0C.  That one's okay; leave it alone.  After you've dropped all devices from your inventory, that player.inv command should expose any items with no name (placing everything in a chest makes this easier).  Check the IDs.  If the starting prefix matches DD Assets, Integration, or Expansion, that's very likely a problem.  Even if it doesn't match, just remove any of those with player.removeitem as a quick test.  If the problem goes away, you've narrowed down the source, then you can find the actual offending item(s) by trial & error.

Will do today.  This... is gonna be a chore, since I habitually carry around approximately a metric ton of assorted stuff.  *guilty look*  It's a fantasy game, and a persistent fantasy of mine is being able to carry the stuff I want handy without ever getting tired or a pained shoulder!  And that's before a third of the world decided to try murdering me!

 

{humor}Hexbolt8, I deserve a patch that'll reward me with another 20 submission points and some gold, for going to all this effort just so I can be submissive to my mistress again.{/humor}

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, qalavix said:

This... is gonna be a chore, since I habitually carry around approximately a metric ton of assorted stuff.

There's a fast way.  It relies on DD to hold on to its items during RemoveAllItems, so manually placing your stuff in a chest is more reliable, but this might well get you a quick solution.
 

Spoiler

Do player.RemoveAllItems.  You won't be saving the game, so it's okay.  You'll be left with quest and locking items.

 

Use player.inv to reveal everything in inventory.  Write down the IDs of every item that doesn't have a name.  You can ignore xx040F0C, the DD device hider.

 

Reload your game.  Use player.RemoveItem to remove those unnamed items.  Hold on to that list of IDs for a while, just in case some non DD mod gave you a hidden item and you want to get it back later.

 

Give yourself a new collar (you can use the SLTR MCM).

 

[qalavix]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

There's a fast way. 

There was a fairly faster way, involving one of my 329 active mods, but I can't remember which mod it is... allows me to hit 'R' for Transfer Most Of The Things, which I dumped into a nearby barrel.  I think I was assuming I'd have to do some organizing as well, but I don't have to, so I didn't.

 

SUCCESS!!!

 

Since I was ostensibly nekkid anyway, I just deleted everything with a DD-related ID (the first two hexadecimals in the 8 hex string).  MCM/SubLola/Help/I_Lost_My_Collar and all seems to be well.  Possibly ironically (and possibly designed), the first thing Mistress did was a collar check.  *smirk* And she said it hadn't been tampered with...

 

And holy moley there were a LOT of things in inventory after I got 'rid of everything'.  And several, including all DD ID'd (15 16 17 and 7D on current load order), had BAD EDITOR ID and were missing descriptions.  Including one 000c5a9d (actually the BAD EDITOR REFERENCE was 000c59ac) which I would assume was base game?  For shame, Bethesda!

 

So, if you're wearing your collar and get zapped anyway, which may happen if another mod rudely removes your DD devices - suspend SubLola, throw away all collars in your inventory, go outside the game and look for the load order number (two HEXADECIMAL digits) of Devious Devices ESPs (maybe write them down; I had four different IDs), go back to the game, find the nearest container, throw everything into it, open console with the `~ key, type "player.showinventory", scan the result for items that start with the DD's two-hex ID number, and using the command "player.removeitem XXYYYYYY #" (where XX is the two-HEX-digit ID of Devious Devices, YYYYYY is the remaining six hex digits, and # is the number of them in your inventory, which is just to the left of the dash before the item's ID) delete all except 15040f0c.

Go to MCM/SubLola/Help and click on "I Lost My Collar" and click through the popup message box.  Put the collar on, then un-suspend SubLola and kiss M/M's feet!  And possibly @HexBolt8's feet as well.?

Then remember you're nekkid and left all your stuff in a container, and go get it back. Or not.

[HexBolt8]

53 minutes ago, qalavix said:

Including one 000c5a9d (actually the BAD EDITOR REFERENCE was 000c59ac) which I would assume was base game?

That's a non-playable tail.  Didn't you say that you lost a tail in the dungeon of doom?  It was likely added by another mod for some purpose.

 

56 minutes ago, qalavix said:

scan the result for items that start with the DD's two-hex ID number, and using the command "player.removeitem XXYYYYYY #"

Only do that for DD items with no name.  Then you can unequip any devices that show as equipped in the inventory screen, and then either reequip them or throw them away.

 

1 hour ago, qalavix said:

SUCCESS!!!

Yay!

[LaRem.]

Hello, HexBolt8 ! You are a master. Do you have any desire to repair this https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3111-devious-framework-dfw/

[HexBolt8]

7 hours ago, LaRem. said:

Do you have any desire to repair this

I have already have a lot going on, so I don't think so.

[Kendo 2]

@HexBolt8

I haven't bothered you in a while so I thought I'd report a few mod issues. 

 

#1 During the mod quest 'All Tied Up" I asked my owner for sex and he wanted my character to masturbate instead.  The dialogue went as 'but I have this harness on and I can't'.  He stated 'do it any way, I want to see you try' and no animations played.  I don't have any mods blocking/allowing player masturbation installed so the fault is either your mod or DD.

 

#2 I needed to finish a vanilla quest so I had the owner wait in Morthal while I fast travelled to Katla's Farm in Solitude.  The owner teleported across the map to tell my character he wanted a bottle of Spiced Wine.  The owner wasn't tracking what cell he was in, but where my character was.  And the quest is an automatic fail since he was at the farm and there's NO WAY to fast travel/run up the hill. buy a bottle of wine and get back to him within an hour.  The quest failing is no big deal; the owner teleporting to me to demand something is.

 

#3 Suspending your mod's events in the MCM results in the follower being blocked of all dialogue after I save the game.  Suspend the events, save, exit the game, restart and the follower will have the NPC's name and '...'.  ie   Stenvar...   Even the vanilla follower/hireling dialogue is missing.  On a whim I generated a SEQ even though your mod doesn't need one and the results were the same.  Console killing/resurrecting the follower didn't fix the issue; neither did dismissing/attack-quick-save/ all the standard Skyrim BS to reset an NPC.

[HexBolt8]

@Kendo 2 #1:  That's a mod error.  It looks like I copied the text from the "unreasonable" response.  Nothing is is supposed to happen, but I'll have to adjust the text.

 

#2:  I'll see what I can do to fix that.  You're not supposed to get new tasks while the owner is waiting.

Edit:  I can't change this behavior.  The player will have to use Suspend instead.

 

#3:  I can't recreate the problem.  I followed your steps exactly, using a full save (not a quick save).  That's what I expected, since the suspend function only sets some SLTR script variables, which affect the things that the mod will or won't do.  It doesn't tamper with follower dialog, except to disable the mod's own "Master?" topic (until Suspend is toggled off).  In my test, I still had "Wait here", "I need you to do something", and a few other topics from other mods.

 

3 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

the follower will have the NPC's name and '...'.  ie   Stenvar... 

I don't think that follower name + "..." is from this mod.

Edited August 9, 2021 by HexBolt8
Changed response to #2

[Kendo 2]

6 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

@Kendo 2 #1:  That's a mod error.  It looks like I copied the text from the "unreasonable" response.  Nothing is is supposed to happen, but I'll have to adjust the text.

 

#2:  I'll see what I can do to fix that.  You're not supposed to get new tasks while the owner is waiting.

 

#3:  I can't recreate the problem.  I followed your steps exactly, using a full save (not a quick save).  That's what I expected, since the suspend function only sets some SLTR script variables, which affect the things that the mod will or won't do.  It doesn't tamper with follower dialog, except to disable the mod's own "Master?" topic (until Suspend is toggled off).  In my test, I still had "Wait here", "I need you to do something", and a few other topics from other mods.

 

I don't think that follower name + "..." is from this mod.

The quotations were mine to demonstrate what the NPC is saying.  The

in-game's dialogue menu it would be Stenvar ...   I don't know how to otherwise explain it   Save and exit the game and thereafter the npc's dialogue is     ....    It's three periods and that's it.   Can't advance anything; no branching

[HexBolt8]

32 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

The in-game's dialogue menu it would be Stenvar ...   I don't know how to otherwise explain it

I'll just cover the bases and say that this mod should not show you either "Stenvar ..." or just "...".  An ellipsis (3 dots) all by itself as a topic is usually the sign of blocking dialog from an NPC's force greeting.  This certainly sounds like a force greeting that isn't starting properly.  Usually, clicking the ellipsis will start up that force greeting dialog.  If it's doing nothing, something is seriously wrong.

 

I can't recreate the problem, so I can't offer much advice.  I assume that you've tried un-suspending the mod, although I still don't see how that would have caused the problem to start with.  Maybe, if the follower was already approaching you with a force greeting and you suspended the mod during the approach, that could have confused the game.  Or, it might be a broken force greeting from another mod.  I've played around with trying various ways to break the mod, but I always see the expected follower topics.

[Kendo 2]

1 minute ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'll just cover the bases and say that this mod should not show you either "Stenvar ..." or just "...".  An ellipsis (3 dots) all by itself as a topic is usually the sign of blocking dialog from an NPC's force greeting.  This certainly sounds like a force greeting that isn't starting properly.  Usually, clicking the ellipsis will start up that force greeting dialog.  If it's doing nothing, something is seriously wrong.

 

I can't recreate the problem, so I can't offer much advice.  I assume that you've tried un-suspending the mod, although I still don't see how that would have caused the problem to start with.  Maybe, if the follower was already approaching you with a force greeting and you suspended the mod during the approach, that could have confused the game.  Or, it might be a broken force greeting from another mod.  I've played around with trying various ways to break the mod, but I always see the expected follower topics.

 

Listen: The name of the NPC doesn't natter.    After suspending the Lola quest and I click on the owner his is what I see        ...

 

THREE PERIODS and that's it  The NPC's name and  ....

[HexBolt8]

4 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

The NPC's name and  ....

Okay, but I think I covered that.  You try to talk to the follower, and the only topic available to you is "...".  Is that right?  That's how I understood it.

[Kendo 2]

12 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

You try to talk to the follower, and the only topic available to you is "...". 

 

YES.

Stenvar  ....

Uhgerd ....

Vorstag ....

[HexBolt8]

2 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

YES.

Okay, so as I said previously, you appear to have a blocking topic as a force greeting that's active on your follower.  I can't recreate the problem.  I don't know what's causing it, or even if the force greeting is from this mod, so I can't offer a solution.  I can't make the mod do what you've described.  If you come across new information or spot a new pattern for getting into the state that you find yourself in, please pass that along and I will take another look.

 

If the suspend function is causing problems for you, a heavy-handed alternative would be to exit enslavement until you've finished your business elsewhere, then re-enter enslavement and take the score loss.  Before I added the suspend option, that was the only way to handle such  things.

 

Regarding waiting, I had to edit my earlier response to your issue #2.  I tried excluding some events when the owner is waiting, but I wasn't successful.  Waiting is fine for tactical situations ("Stay here while I lure the enemy out of the fort"), but it should be combined with suspend if you're taking a prolonged absence.

 

I'm going to be offline now for a few hours for a previously planned activity, but I'll check back here later.

[CaptainJ03]

All Tied Up? I cannot remember that I ever had that quest, where and how do I trigger it?

(or is it that rope harness on a ship quest, of which I cannot remember the name right now?)

[HexBolt8]

14 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

or is it that rope harness on a ship quest

That's the one.

[BillyG]

20 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'll just cover the bases and say that this mod should not show you either "Stenvar ..." or just "...".  An ellipsis (3 dots) all by itself as a topic is usually the sign of blocking dialog from an NPC's force greeting.  This certainly sounds like a force greeting that isn't starting properly.  Usually, clicking the ellipsis will start up that force greeting dialog.  If it's doing nothing, something is seriously wrong.

 

Fyi, I'm having these issues too - but this is neither bug report not nitpick, because I didn't isolate the problem yet and am stil in the general "What mods do I want to use at all" phase. However, the Lola mod is so great, I did play it for some time, and got blocked on several quests due to lack of dialoue and the "..." and then nothing issue - for example when asking the owner if she'd reconsider tasks.

 

I tried to turn off all dialog options in other mods that there were, but it seems the Lola mod is somehow sensitive to the forced greet blocking you've described. Or my setup is completely broken due to mod overload. I'll keep looking, and report back if I can contribute something more useful :-p ... unfortunately, this debugging involves disabling mods and then starting a new game, so it'll take some time.

 

Or is there a quicker way to isolate dialogue collisions, for example looking at xedit conflicts (I have no clue about that, tbh)?

 

Btw thanks for these two mods you're supporting, they're both great and would certainly be in my "top 5" list!

Edited August 10, 2021 by BillyG

[HexBolt8]

23 minutes ago, BillyG said:

I'll keep looking, and report back if I can contribute something more useful

Thank you.  If you come across a reproducible problem, please let me know and I'll try to recreate it here and fix it.

[Kendo 2]

@HexBolt8

The owner teleporting to the player to demand something persists.  This time it was Sven who I had vanilla follower Wait in the Riverwood exterior world space.  I fast travelled to the Whiterun Stables and he instantly moved to my character to demand a bottle of Honningbrew Mead.  Despite what you might think is happening, the mod is tracking player location and not the owner's.

 

This also happens when renting a room at an inn or entering a jarl's hall.  I have the NPC owner wait in a different cell and they will teleport in to demand a room sweeping or a boot licking.  Again, they're tracking where the player is and not where they are.

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

The owner teleporting to the player to demand something persists. 

As I mentioned before, I can't change the way that this works.  Waiting is fine for tactical situations, but if you're going to move to a different area while the owner waits, you must use the suspend option or exit enslavement if you want to prevent these events from occurring.  Waiting blocks some events, but not all.  Suspend should block everything (though it won't stop quests that are in progress, so you can still fail things like Tomb Raider).

 

Edit:  There's another option for handling waiting.  It's imperfect and it requires a bit of patience, but I'll describe it.

Spoiler

The mod's main update function is on a 20 second cycle.  Each update, it sets a script variable if the owner is waiting.  This variable should stop most events (at this time, it won't stop the room rental event, but I'll change that), though I never rigorously tested it because the suspend feature works immediately and its state is visible in the MCM.  If you tell the owner to wait, then after 20 seconds the mod should know not to start new events.  Unfortunately, most players don't play that way.  They'll tell the owner to wait, then immediately fast travel somewhere, so the periodic update won't have occurred yet.  This functionality isn't intended to handle that situation, but it's there.  If you don't want to use the suspend option, then waiting 20 seconds should also work for most things.

 

2 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

Despite what you might think is happening, the mod is tracking player location and not the owner's.

I know that.  That's the way the mod works.  It can't track the owner's location changes, so it tracks the player's movements.

Edited August 10, 2021 by HexBolt8

[Kendo 2]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

As I mentioned before, I can't change the way that this works.  Waiting is fine for tactical situations, but if you're going to move to a different area while the owner waits, you must use the suspend option or exit enslavement if you want to prevent these events from occurring.  Waiting blocks some events, but not all.  Suspend should block everything (though it won't stop quests that are in progress, so you can still fail things like Tomb Raider).

 

I know that.  That's the way the mod works.  It can't track the owner's location changes, so it tracks the player's movements.

 

I guess I'll just have to openly be a dick to get my point across to you; I know basic game mechanics so you gaslighting me with 'it can't be changed' ain't gonna fly.  It can indeed be changed since you're already tracking cell keywords for the owner.  It's the mechanics for location key words like 'mine' or 'forsworn camp'.  I understand what's going on and your mod is applying the key word to the player, not the owner.  In vanilla game terms my character would walk into the trigger zone of a grand vista and your owner NPC would teleport from across the map to tell me 'Wow, never seen anything like that."  And you're telling me you can't fix that when triggers are vanilla-tied to the NPC and not the player?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Kendo 2

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said:

I guess I'll just have to openly be a dick to get my point across to you

Please don't.  There's far too much of that happening on the site lately.

 

1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said:

I know basic game mechanics so you gaslighting me with 'it can't be changed' ain't gonna fly.

You and I seem to have a way of talking past each other.  This isn't the first time.  I'm sure it's not intentional, and it's likely equally frustrating for both of us.  I don't gaslight.  But if you continue with this tone, you're not going to receive help.  Let's keep this polite.

 

1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said:

I understand what's going on and your mod is applying the key word to the player, not the owner.

I said that in my previous post.  We're in full agreement.

 

1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said:

And you're telling me you can't fix that when triggers are vanilla-tied to the NPC and not the player?

Yes.

 

Wrong way to ask:  Accusations of gaslighting.  Right way to ask:  "Why can't you track the owner's movements rather than the player's?"

 

Let's assume that you'd asked politely and go from there.  We've gotten along reasonably well in past, and maybe you're just having a bad day.  Skyrim's location change events are for the player character, not for NPCs.  That wasn't a bad design decision on Bethesda's part.  They didn't need to trigger events for NPC movement.  The vanilla game is PC centric.  Therefore, this mod's location change events trigger on the PC.  A script could determine the owner's location and/or waiting status, but if it triggers on the loc change event, that's too late.  (That's for location change events.  The mod also has periodic events, which trigger differently and work differently, but that's a separate topic and not what you asked about.)

 

Edit:  Additional info regarding quest conditions.

Spoiler

The quests triggered by location change events do check keywords against a reference.  The PC is a fixed reference that matches the loc change event; it works.  The owner is a quest alias to an NPC that is probably not yet in the same cell.  In the past, I've not been successful doing that kind of check against the owner, so the quests check the PC.

 

That's generally not been a problem, since the owner is either accompanying the PC, or the mod is suspended, or the periodic update cycle has occurred and the mod has silently blocked events after noticing that the owner is waiting.  It was never clear to me whether the problem was the use of the quest alias or a timing problem; I just noted that it didn't work.  A timing problem (using the owner as quest alias) could occur like this:

 

PC enters a new cell that matches conditions for a mod quest.

Location change event triggers.

The quest linked to the loc change event checks its startup conditions.

The PC is in the new cell, but the owner is trailing a few steps behind.

Conditions on the owner in the old cell are not met, so the quest doesn't start.

The owner now enters the new cell.

But the loc change event only triggers on the PC, so the opportunity is lost.

The event never triggers.  Broken quest.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by HexBolt8
Additional info regarding quest conditions

[Arcane Wanderer]

Great mod!

 

I noticed that integration with "Spank That Ass" doesn't work.   Submissive Lola sends a  "_STA_SpankBasicAss"  mod event.   The current version of STA doesn't support that event.   It seems to provide "STA_DoNpcSpankSpecific" and "STA_DoNpcSpankSpecificCustom" events.   Glancing at the STA code, I suspect that STA expects to handle the animation which isn't what your mod expects.

 

Edit:  Looking closer at STA, it does not seem to provide any usable event.   I've posted a question on the STA SE page.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by MikeWander
STA doesn't seem to support any usable event

[HexBolt8]

3 minutes ago, MikeWander said:

I noticed that integration with "Spank That Ass" doesn't work.   Submissive Lola sends a  "_STA_SpankBasicAss"  mod event.   The current version of STA doesn't support that event.

The new STA event was added to beta version 4.7 of STA.  You can get that on the author's mod features blog page.

[Arcane Wanderer]

Thanks!