Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[HexBolt8]

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Okay, so I've put in several dozen hours with Submissive Lola over the past couple of weeks, and I've been keeping extensive notes on my experience.

Thank you for this.  It takes time to keep notes, organize the thoughts, and write them out as feedback.  I appreciate it.

 

Regarding idle comments, I won't touch them -- not because that it's outside the mod's scope, but for compatibility.  The fewer things a mod changes in the base game, the better.  I've only altered (by disabling) one idle comment, one of Belethor's that really didn't fit.

 

I think @Herowynne has a good approach, avoiding followers who have inappropriate idle comments.  I rarely do the thane quests (and if I did, I'd have to pretend that the owner is actually thane, not the PC), but if I did then I'd have the housecarl wait forever at home while I adventure with the owner.  Alternatively, some players assume that the thane is mocking the PC ("I'm 'sworn to carry your burdens', but we both understand how things really work, don't we, my slave?").

 

Personally, I only use mod-added followers, basically pretty faces on a blank template.  Most don't have their own comments, but those that do I can easily edit them in the follower mod.  I can also override the vanilla naked comment in the follower mod.  Avoiding vanilla followers (whether they're from original Skyrim or from DLC) sidesteps the problems with comments, and lets me imagine whatever background and personality I want.

 

To avoid page bloat, I'll comment on the rest inside a spoiler section.

 

Spoiler

I'd love dance animations that work with bondage!  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any.  I have zero skill with creating animations, so (as you've seen) the mod has to make do with what's available.

 

Fast travel doesn't work well with this mod.  Not only do you lose a big chunk of the day toward serving the owner, you also miss out on opportunities to serve and raise your score, as well as missing events like "Faster, Lola, Faster" that don't occur in towns.  I leave it up the player, though.  Personally, I never fast travel (okay, I sometimes do it from the Whiterun stable to the city, to avoid that pointless walk to the gate).  I avoid carriages, too, unless I'm moving to a new house or doing something where it seems appropriate for hauling a big load.  The world feels vast, I can harvest plenty of flora, and events from mods like this one have the opportunity to trigger.

 

Regarding Shoal's Rest Farm, this mod relies heavily on keywords.  If mod-added locations have the right keywords, they'll blend in and work nicely.  However, the farm is designated as being inside Rorikstead, which is a valid location for the Stewing quest.  Players could fix that by changing the farm location's parent location to the hold rather than the town.

 

Cavity search and "Touch yourself":  noted. 

 

I understand the dilemma with Time to Relax and crafting, but I'll leave that up to the player to decide if using an exploit is appropriate.  Strictly speaking, owners want obedience and they aren't necessarily reasonable about it.  You might have dump some valuable loot if you really want to carry heavy crafting materials.

 

"I'd love to have straitjackets as an option for 'Time to Relax'."  I agree, they're sexy.  I've made a note to try to use them.  Time to Relax is scripted for hand bindings, however, so I don't think I'll change that.

 

Spanking animations must have the tags "Spanking" or "Spank" to be recognized.  Also, check your spanking animation setting on the MCM System page.

 

I might be able to add a setting for the kneeling animation.

 

"'Spanked bottom' active effect description says it lasts 8 hours, but it actually lasts 24 minutes."  At the default time scale, 24 real minutes is 8 game hours.  I should probably just reword the descriptions in terms of real time.

 

Sex with the wrong partner is probably a goof on my part with that dialog and outcomes.  I've made a note to look at it.

 

"I've had my mistress interrupt a scene she was in with a HSH slave to demand sex with me"  This mod isn't checking whether the owner is already having sex.  I'll fix that.

 

For the basic prostitution comments (I assume you're referring to this), the mod does track repeat clients, but that's only actually used later during Confessions of a Slave.  I'll see if I can at least tone down the more disdainful remarks.

 

"You should also probably have the "Working Slave" dialogue disabled for targets of ["I'm Famous" or "Temple of Dibella"]."  That would increasingly limit the available client pool over time.  Isn't it better to just let the player decide if it's appropriate to solicit a specific NPC?

 

Positive reactions during "Confessions of a Slave".  As CaptainJ03 mentioned, there is some, but yeah at the time I was focused on degrading responses.  However, "good girl" reactions can be positive and a bit degrading too, so I'll have to expand this area, probably with a new faction to track whether an NPC views your status favorably or not and consistently reacts the same way.

 

"The MCM Statistics tab isn't tracking 'Times danced' for me."  How did I never notice that??  Fixed for the next update.

 

"I would really love to see the role of playmates expanded....  I guess you're a little hamstrung by trying to leave it ambiguous as to what her status is...."  Yes, it's this.  Support for a second follower stayed on the wish list for a long time until I realized that I could do a basic version without great effort.  It was one of those cases where the perfect is the enemy of the good.  The playmate system is admittedly shallow.  But extending it much further would involve settings for playmate status, and a lot more complexity.  Scenes in which NPCs talk to each other (as in having the playmate do confessions) are not my strong area, and they can be fragile, so I tend to stay with things that I know I can do and that won't break.

 

I really like your ideas for a trust system (I'd already had a basic idea for tattling on each other) and both of you licking the owner's shoes.  Obviously that has to wait as long as the playmate's status is ambiguous.

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by HexBolt8

[u7ndertow]

@HexBolt8

 

I absolutely love your mod. I took a look under the hood and I see what looks to be some of the ideas you have for the future updates and I am even more excited once they are implemented.

 

I second what some previous comments were saying about the threats your owner makes about "You're going to lick my feet later tonight". I would love to see that actually implemented whenever you go to sleep ( or walk near a bed in an inn) during the nights she says this. For the people who hate feet stuff maybe just a simple toggle from the MCM disabling it would work.

 

Awesome job, keep it up!

[Antiope_Apollonia]

3 hours ago, Herowynne said:

This is an interesting point.

 

I use the following approach: I choose my SubLola master based on their idle dialogue, and I avoid using a follower as a SubLola master if I know they have inappropriate idle dialogue that would be unimmersive.

 

In my opinion, each follower's idle dialogue gives a peek into their personality. From a role-playing point of view, only certain NPCs would make sense as a SubLola master. In my opinion, a housecarl who honors you doesn't make sense as a SubLola master.

 

Certain NPCs - such as the hireling Marcurio in the Bee & Barb - have idle dialogue that indicate they have a big ego and like to show off. Marcurio makes a great SubLola master because the additional SubLola dialogue fits well with his vanilla idle chatter.

I can't speak to male masters, but I can't think of any female followers who completely lack any deferential dialogue.  Certainly, that approach would restrict your choices to a tiny fraction of the possibilities at best and rule out most of the most popular vanilla followers.  But more than that—especially given that SLTR depicts a consensual arrangement—I don't think it's at all inconsistent for a character whose previous role had forced them to be deferent to take on a dominant role after the PC submits to them.  I'd argue that the deference of housecarls, for instance, doesn't necessarily say something deep about their personalities so much as it simply reflects their job and/or social position.  

  

2 hours ago, dage7416 said:

How exactly do Lola and Devious Followers Continued  interact/ play alongside each other? I've read from both pages where they both state they can "technically/somewhat" be used together but neither state whether or not they are compatible with each other very clearly. Any input/clarity would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

They technically work together, but from an RP perspective, it's pretty redundant to use them together.  DFC is a lighter experience that leaves a lot more to your imagination and doesn't develop the dom/sub relationship very deeply.  SLTR has more narrative and depicts a more fleshed out relationship where your mistress is a more fully realised character.  Also, DFC is focused more on bondage, while SLTR is focused more on submissive actions, although there's plenty of overlap there.  Ultimately, I'd say it's best to do a playthrough with each and decide which suits your tastes better.  

[Antiope_Apollonia]

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'd love dance animations that work with bondage!  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any.  I have zero skill with creating animations, so (as you've seen) the mod has to make do with what's available.

So this probably should have gone with the "touch yourself" and "cavity search" comments; absent a bound-compatible animation, the "dance for me" command should also probably be disabled during "Time to Relax"—unless we could use straitjackets, as there are plenty of dances that work okay with straitjackets.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Fast travel doesn't work well with this mod.  Not only do you lose a big chunk of the day toward serving the owner, you also miss out on opportunities to serve and raise your score, as well as missing events like "Faster, Lola, Faster" that don't occur in towns.  I leave it up the player, though.

I'd say it works pretty well for the most part.  I don't like to overuse fast travel for every little thing, but not having the option for traversing between cities would be a huge detriment to quality of life.  And I'm pretty sure this is a soluble problem. 

 

I'm not very knowledgeable about the mechanics under the hood, so there may be a better solution, but... You've anticipated and solved one of the big potential problems with with fast travel with the option for "Adventuring Slave".  You could use a similar solution for the daily service, with a dialogue option to the effect that, "We need to travel.  Is there anything mistress requires before we leave?" that would complete your remaining daily service.  (The ideal version of this might compare what fraction of your service you've completed to what fraction of the day has passed and make a determination accordingly, but that level of complexity would not be required for it to be a big boon—you could leave it to the player to use it responsibly.)  To solve the issue with landing right before the end of your cycle, you could probably make it so that, after fast travelling, your daily cycle is reset to start at the current time.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think @Herowynne has a good approach, avoiding followers who have inappropriate idle comments.  I rarely do the thane quests (and if I did, I'd have to pretend that the owner is actually thane, not the PC), but if I did then I'd have the housecarl wait forever at home while I adventure with the owner.

Just to clarify, I was only suggesting preventing/overriding vanilla dialogue for the NPC that is actively your mistress, not a global change for all potential followers all the time.  But if there's just no good way to do it, then fair enough.  I don't know very much about the technical side of modding.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I understand the dilemma with Time to Relax and crafting, but I'll leave that up to the player to decide if using an exploit is appropriate.  Strictly speaking, owners want obedience and they aren't necessarily reasonable about it.  You might have dump some valuable loot if you really want to carry heavy crafting materials.

I would argue that systems that push players toward the use of exploits represent design flaws.  I find that practically every time I get to town with "Time to Relax", I feel pressured to exploit my playmate to get out of bondage early, which is kind of immersion-breaking.  But selling my daggers unenchanted or selling my ore instead of making ingots or whatever would be completely crippling, so I usually don't feel like I have much of a choice.  But I think this could be turned into an opportunity that would instead enhance immersion if written well.  If you have gold sharing set up, then in the current implementation, your mistress is leaving her own money on the table.  But more generally, if you belong completely to your mistress, then your property is her property, so she has an interest in not seeing it wasted.  With the right writing, having this option would be completely compatible with the RP concerns.  The player is basically responsible for managing her mistress's loot, so this would just be an extension of that aspect of the relationship.  

 

I know a lot of people never touch crafting—which has always baffled me, but each to her own—and wouldn't care one way or the other, but as someone who does do crafting, I've found this to be perhaps the most problematic of Submissive Lola as it currently exists.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For the basic prostitution comments (I assume you're referring to this), the mod does track repeat clients, but that's only actually used later during Confessions of a Slave.  I'll see if I can at least tone down the more disdainful remarks.

I don't have a problem with the more disdainful remarks in principle; it's just a little weird when an NPC who is friendly toward you and/or who has paid you for sex in the past uses them.  If the system is already tracking repeat clients anyway, it'd be nice to have comments that reference that fact.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

"You should also probably have the "Working Slave" dialogue disabled for targets of ["I'm Famous" or "Temple of Dibella"]."  That would increasingly limit the available client pool over time.  Isn't it better to just let the player decide if it's appropriate to solicit a specific NPC?

To clarify, I only meant excluding currently active targets.  They'd be available for "Working Slave" (WS) again as soon as "I'm Famous" (IF) or "Temple of Dibella" (ToD) is finished.  So it wouldn't increasingly limit the client pool at all.  This comment was specifically meant as a followup to the preceding remarks, though, to preempt the creation of a perverse incentive.  If NPCs who just had sex with you in the course of IF/ToD refuse you during WS because you just had sex with them, then you'd be creating an incentive for the player to proposition them through WS first, then do IF/ToD with them after.  And to reiterate, I'd argue that creating perverse incentives to use exploits should be avoided in designing systems.  And removing current targets of an active IF/ToD quest from the client pool of a concurrently active WS quest just seems like a much better solution than to have the converse of IF/ToD targets refusing your offer if they've recently had WS sex, thus possibly causing you to fail these timed quests.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Positive reactions during "Confessions of a Slave".  As CaptainJ03 mentioned, there is some, but yeah at the time I was focused on degrading responses.  However, "good girl" reactions can be positive and a bit degrading too, so I'll have to expand this area, probably with a new faction to track whether an NPC views your status favorably or not and consistently reacts the same way.

Doing it with a faction is a great idea!  I was just imagining it being random, but this would be much better, as we'd get character development for the NPCs.  This gives me a further idea—which might just be way too difficult, but it'd be really cool if it could be done—to have optional integration with And You Get a Slave so that you get more positive comments in cities with higher slavery acceptance or from NPCs who have slaves of their own.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The playmate system is admittedly shallow.  But extending it much further would involve settings for playmate status, and a lot more complexity. 

I don't think the need to add an MCM setting for playmates to be either dominant or submissive is a reason to avoid this route at all, really.  This mod already has a fairly complex MCM, but it's also possibly the most well-done MCM of any mod I've seen.  I guess maybe it's because you worry about this kind of thing, so I don't want to discourage you from that mentality, but you do an amazing job of making everything really clear and easy to understand.  For people who want a simpler experience, I'd suggest that there's already Devious Followers Continued to serve that crowd.  SLTR's comparative advantage is that it's such a rich experience, so I'd say it's better to double down on your strengths.  

 

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I really like your ideas for a trust system (I'd already had a basic idea for tattling on each other) and both of you licking the owner's shoes.

My other suggestions here regarding taking punishments for—or foisting them off on—each other and comforting each other after punishments would be about the most exciting thing I could imagine in this whole mod ecosystem for me, personally, if done well.  And in light of the current state of SLTR, I'm pretty confident you could do it really well.  For me, there's nothing sexier than tenderness among fellow submissives.  

 

---

 

Also, I forgot to include one more idea in my big wall-o'-text.  It'd be both really cool and just pragmatically useful to be able to initiate an event through the MCM for your mistress to sell you to another current follower.  You could also make it some thing where there's an option for a chance for it to happen randomly, but personally, I'd be more interested in being able to push a button on the MCM and make it happen.  You can of course currently get your current mistress to release you and then submit to a new one, but even a really simple version of this would be much more immersive than having to go that route.  And, in the process, you also forfeit all of your submission progress; with a system like this, you could preserve your progress (or maybe better would be if your submission score takes, say, a 20% hit).  This could also work while under contract or even "kept forever", just preserving your status.  And If you want to avoid NPC-NPC interaction, you could still do a really great version of this with only NPC-PC interactions, e.g.,

• Current mistress beckons and tells the player to kneel before her.
• Current mistress tells player that she's selling you to her friend, mistress soandso, and that she expects her slave to be good for her new mistress, as the slave's behaviour reflects back on her.
• (Bonus points!) Perhaps the current mistress has some farewell sex with the slave or you have a threeway scene.
• Current mistress tells player to go kneel before the mistress-to-be.
• When player interacts with the new mistress, there's a dialogue option to just kneel silently.
• New mistress addresses the player to say that she's discussed the slave with her friend, and she'll be picking up the training where the previous mistress left off.  
• (Bonus points!) New mistress tells the player that you cost her a lot of money, and she expects a return on her investment.  This could possibly trigger some additional events—same flavour as the existing events, but just tuned up in intensity or frequency—at the start of the new relationship to make good on said investment.  (Yet more bonus points!) The amount she pays for you could even be determined by your submission score, or a combination of submission and player level, with her comments tailored accordingly.  At the low end, perhaps she tells you that you weren't worth much, but she'll turn your previous mistress's errant training around.  

Aside from just being interesting in its own right, this would resolve another conundrum I've found myself in with SLTR.  When I start a new playthrough, I'm usually anxious to start playing with this mod right away, but often the follower I really want to be my mistress is locked behind a fair bit of game content.  So I either have to wait longer than I'd like to unlock the mistress I want, or I have to unimmersively transfer myself and then lose all of my progress anyway.  

Edited November 15, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[Sadem]

A suggestion for an event: when you have more then X amount of gold, maybe configurable in the MCM, your dom takes all of it, leaving you only with what you set as a daily expense.
And maybe add a MCM option to not give you gold for expenses if you have more then X amount.

 

 Edit: 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Also, I forgot to include one more idea in my big wall-o'-text.  It'd be both really cool and just pragmatically useful to be able to initiate an event through the MCM for your mistress to sell you to another current follower. 

I really like this idea, I use interesting NPCs and one of them is my dom and it would be fun to swap them in some more 'reasonable' way. I think its OK if your score restarts with a new one though, but maybe it can be a configuration. It makes sense to have to submit to a new dom, instead of submitting instantly.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sadem

[Antiope_Apollonia]

8 minutes ago, Sadem said:

I think its OK if your score restarts with a new one though, but maybe it can be a configuration. It makes sense to have to submit to a new dom, instead of submitting instantly.

I'm certainly down for configurable, but by default, I think the most logical would be if you keep something like 50-80% of your prior submission score.  I agree that you need to submit to your new mistress—the transition will never be completely seamless—but I also don't think you'd just lose all that training overnight.  Especially that, to some extent, submitting to the new mistress is submission to your old mistress, since she sold you and commanded you to obey your new owner.  

[HexBolt8]

@Antiope_Appolonia, for fast travel, I think we're just going to have to disagree.  ?  To my thinking, fast travel represents real travel, just in a form that's convenient for the human player.  If you're traveling, you'd better be offering service.  As a player, you might break the fast travel into smaller hops and offer service after each segment, or just set the requirement low and you'll never fail (though you still lose out on opportunities to raise score).

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I don't have a problem with the more disdainful remarks in principle; it's just a little weird when an NPC who is friendly toward you and/or who has paid you for sex in the past uses them.

Friendly is one thing, but having used you before doesn't make you less of a whore, so disdainful remarks could still apply.  I will take another look at this, but it's never been my desire to put much time into the basic prostitution.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

And removing current targets of an active IF/ToD quest from the client pool of a concurrently active WS quest just seems like a much better solution than to have the converse of IF/ToD targets refusing your offer if they've recently had WS sex, thus possibly causing you to fail these timed quests.  

It doesn't work like that.  A minor point, but I Am Famous and Temple of Love can't run at the same time.  More to the point, the targets of those quests never refuse.  If you think you can fit in a quickie to help meet your prostitution quota, go ahead, but it's risky.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I don't think the need to add an MCM setting for playmates to be either dominant or submissive is a reason to avoid this route at all, really.

Heh, I guess my thought process wasn't clear.  Adding a setting to the MCM is easy.  Doing something with that setting is the hard part.  I deliberately kept the implementation simple so that I could actually do it with a reasonable effort.  I might well expand on it in the future, but this was an important step and I'm just not eager to take it further now.  I'll certainly consider suggestions that fit within the current system, though.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

It'd be both really cool and just pragmatically useful to be able to initiate an event through the MCM for your mistress to sell you to another current follower.

Oh, but you can!  You missed the Make New Owner button on the System page.  There's no scene, but it smoothly transfers you to another current follower (with score intact), and even offers to make your former owner your playmate, if you wish.  You can change owners even while kept forever.

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I find that practically every time I get to town with "Time to Relax", I feel pressured to exploit my playmate to get out of bondage early, which is kind of immersion-breaking.

I don't really understand the problem.  I don't consider using the playmate to temporarily hold items that you plan craft with as an exploit, as long as you limit yourself to only transferring such items.  You probably have an understanding with your owner.  If you don't have a second follower, temporarily drop the crafting stuff in a barrel ("I'll just set aside the things we'll need for later").  Or, if you do your crafting in town, just turn off the requirement to unburden before you're released.  If you go to a house first, drop off the items you want to craft with, sell off the rest in town, then return home at your convenience and craft.  None of that seems exploity or unreasonable.

 

50 minutes ago, Sadem said:

when you have more than X amount of gold, maybe configurable in the MCM, your dom takes all of it, leaving you only with what you set as a daily expense.

That's possible, but I think it will just make you find ways to avoid hitting the limit.  Throughout history, people have been very creative about dodging the tax man.  Keep excess gold at home, and you need never reach the limit in your inventory.  Or buy gems and carry them as a tradable commodity.  If you really just want a gold sink, you could crank up your owner's daily expenses.

Edited November 15, 2021 by HexBolt8

[HexBolt8]

In regard to transferring score if you switch owners, I'll say that I prefer to keep it simple (as it is now).  Some players who have two dominant followers use the feature to switch owners each day, as if they're sharing you.  If you'd like some score loss, please consider the score decay feature on the first MCM page.  You can do a lot with this depending on how you view your current owner's mood.  Set it high, and you might actually lose ground every day because you can never quite live up to the new owner's expectations.  Gradually reduce the decay as you learn what the new owner wants.  You'll have to adjust it manually, but if you decide on a plan at the time of the transfer (X decay for the first week, Y for the second week, and Z thereafter), you'll have a potentially challenging situation, as long as you stick to the plan.

 

Beyond this, the score decay (along with the scaling factors for score increase and decrease) and "Hard to please owner chance" settings are great for reflecting the owner's mood.  If you recently had a defeat or major setback, the owner will be in a foul mood and be difficult to please.  When you think time has passed and the owner has mellowed, adjust those settings.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

32 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

for fast travel, I think we're just going to have to disagree.  ?  To my thinking, fast travel represents real travel, just in a form that's convenient for the human player.  If you're traveling, you'd better be offering service.  As a player, you might break the fast travel into smaller hops and offer service after each segment, or just set the requirement low and you'll never fail (though you still lose out on opportunities to raise score).

Well, I'd say that "a form that's convenient for the human player" is a pretty important consideration.  Anything that forces users to accept additional tedium in the game will shrink your audience (aside from things like survival mods, where that's the core concept).  In this case, users aren't exactly forced to accept tedium, but to avoid it, we basically can't utilise one of the existing features.  Most of the time, I'd be pretty content to have a fairly gruelling minimum daily service rule, but in order to avoid unwelcome tedium on the occasions when I need to travel from Markarth to Riften or the like, I find it necessary to keep the daily service quota set to one.  It's not the biggest deal, but it does seem like a shame to be constrained in this way, especially in light of the fact that you've already condescended to make "Adventuring Slave" play nicely with fast travel, and that same approach could likely be applied here.  But hey, you do you—this isn't something that's going to ruin the mod for me or anything.  

 

I'd also contend that, especially in a magical fantasy world, the ability to rationalise QoL mechanics is almost limitless.  For fast travel, mistress could have her pet bound in a cage (like below, NSFW obviously).  Or it could just be magical teleportation that's slow because magic-reasons.  Or whatever else.  

Spoiler

 

36 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Friendly is one thing, but having used you before doesn't make you less of a whore, so disdainful remarks could still apply.

It depends on the comment.  (Off the top of my head...) Simple ones like, "Go peddle your body somewhere else, slut," fit just fine, but refusal remarks like, "From the look of that collar, you're nothing but a sex slave..." don't make much sense from someone who has paid this sex slave for sex in the past.  Some of the comments seem to be suggesting that the NPC is opposed to the very idea of buying sex from a slave.  And never having any reference to the fact that you've had past encounters is a little weird.  

 

42 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

It doesn't work like that. 

I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood my comments on this and/or forgotten the original context.  I suggested that it would be nice to have unique "Working Slave" dialogue for NPCs who you just had sex with during "I'm Famous" or "Temple of Dibella" to refuse WS sex on the basis of being fatigued/still satisfied/whatever.  Then we've fallen deeper and deeper down a rabbit hole about one secondary suggestion intended to avoid creating a weird interaction with a perverse incentive as a consequence of the main suggestion—which itself was a relatively minor suggestion to begin with.  

 

56 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Heh, I guess my thought process wasn't clear.  Adding a setting to the MCM is easy.  Doing something with that setting is the hard part.  I deliberately kept the implementation simple so that I could actually do it with a reasonable effort.  I might well expand on it in the future, but this was an important step and I'm just not eager to take it further now.  I'll certainly consider suggestions that fit within the current system, though.

I guess I was reading too much into your mention of the MCM in light of other comments you've made recently, e.g., in the discussion of creating a pool of hair styles.  But yeah, I fully recognise that my suggestions for expanding playmates would be more labour intensive than most of the stuff on the list.  Although I don't know enough about the technical side of modding to have a great idea of exactly how difficult different ideas would be to implement, the main thing I can do is to try to say how worthwhile that effort would be—on the assumption that that's a useful datum for you in calculating the relative values of different potential investments of your dev time.  And from my perspective, developing this feature further would be the most impactful area to expand the functionality of SLTR.  The current form of playmates is a solid foundation to build upon, but as-is, I honestly haven't found it to have very much of an impact on my experience.  I see massive potential for it to be among my favourite things in all of Skyrim, though.  What you do with that datum, of course, is up to you.  

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Oh, but you can!  You missed the Make New Owner button on the System page.  There's no scene, but it smoothly transfers you to another current follower (with score intact), and even offers to make your former owner your playmate, if you wish.  You can change owners even while kept forever.

Oh, very nice, I did indeed miss that.  Well, then I'd say this useful feature could be given some nice flavour with a little event along the lines of what I described above.  I could be completely mistaken, but I'd guess the hard part is done, and adding some accompanying dialogue exchanges wouldn't be too difficult?

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

I don't really understand the problem.  I don't consider using the playmate to temporarily hold items that you plan craft with as an exploit, as long as you limit yourself to only transferring such items.  You probably have an understanding with your owner.  If you don't have a second follower, temporarily drop the crafting stuff in a barrel ("I'll just set aside the things we'll need for later").  Or, if you do your crafting in town, just turn off the requirement to unburden before you're released.  If you go to a house first, drop off the items you want to craft with, sell off the rest in town, then return home at your convenience and craft.  None of that seems exploity or unreasonable.

I wouldn't call it a "problem" per se.  Everything you describe is viable as a workaround.  But using workarounds like these generally does reduce immersion.  I was just making a suggestion that would capitalise on the opportunity to instead make it immersion-enhancing.  Every time I get to town under "Time to Relax" rules and have to figure out a workaround to be able to do crafting, it shakes me out character a bit, but having a dialogue option like I described would reinforce the roleplaying experience.  

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

In regard to transferring score if you switch owners, I'll say that I prefer to keep it simple (as it is now).  Some players who have two dominant followers use the feature to switch owners each day, as if they're sharing you. 

Continuing to think about this, if you do decide to expand on the playmate feature, it's sounding increasingly like it might be prudent to split it into two separate roles right from the start—"Mistress's playmate" and "Lola's playmate" or something along those lines—and just building them independently.  Rather than having one playmate role with an MCM option to configure her as dominant or submissive as was discussed a few posts ago.  This would also have the added bonus that players who wanted to could have one of each.  But mostly it would allow each role to develop independently in different directions.  

[HexBolt8]

4 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

It depends on the comment.  (Off the top of my head...) Simple ones like, "Go peddle your body somewhere else, slut," fit just fine, but refusal remarks like, "From the look of that collar, you're nothing but a sex slave..." don't make much sense from someone who has paid this sex slave for sex in the past.

Agreed.  I'll take a look at this.

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood my comments on this and/or forgotten the original context.

That's entirely possible.  ?

 

4 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I suggested that it would be nice to have unique "Working Slave" dialogue for NPCs who you just had sex with during "I'm Famous" or "Temple of Dibella" to refuse WS sex on the basis of being fatigued/still satisfied/whatever.

Okay, I understand.  I probably won't go that far, mainly to keep the basic prostitution feature simple.  It's there for players who can't or won't use Radiant Prostitution (I don't want to force them to do that), but I also don't want to put much time into it.

 

I'll reread the other points tomorrow when my head is clear.

[CaptainJ03]

8 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I find that practically every time I get to town with "Time to Relax", I feel pressured to exploit my playmate to get out of bondage early, which is kind of immersion-breaking.  But selling my daggers unenchanted or selling my ore instead of making ingots or whatever would be completely crippling, so I usually don't feel like I have much of a choice.  But I think this could be turned into an opportunity that would instead enhance immersion if written well.  If you have gold sharing set up, then in the current implementation, your mistress is leaving her own money on the table.  But more generally, if you belong completely to your mistress, then your property is her property, so she has an interest in not seeing it wasted.  With the right writing, having this option would be completely compatible with the RP concerns.  The player is basically responsible for managing her mistress's loot, so this would just be an extension of that aspect of the relationship.  

 

I know a lot of people never touch crafting—which has always baffled me, but each to her own—and wouldn't care one way or the other, but as someone who does do crafting, I've found this to be perhaps the most problematic of Submissive Lola as it currently exists.  

Using the word "immersion" and "crafting" together, and not starting to rant how immersion-breaking all that crafting business is, astounds me. Your vanilla-Skyrim job is to slay dragons - but not even the best smith Eorlund Graymane can temper your blade, you have to learn it yourself. One of the mages in Winterhold keeps babbling about enchanting services that keeps them connected to the rest of the word, but no money can buy the PC some double-enchanted, tempered sword. Again you have to pick up daggers, kill every wolf you come across just to fill petty soulgems, and then click-click-click again through those pesky, unsorted lists

 

About encumbrance for crafting items - I have a chest near the enchanter at home, and another near my smithy. And if I'm not in need of the money, I drop that and incpcs via console.

[just_Gina]

 

Discussing 'immersive' is pointless. It is purely subjective. For one person it breaks immersion when this happens, to another, when that does.

Here we have a mod and a mod author that tries very hard to give us a slavery experience while still allowing us to play the game somewhat

normally. No easy task, that.

The name of the mod suggests submissive, yet the dialog leaves you in no doubt that you've become a slave. "Your vanilla-Skyrim job is to slay dragons -" until

the moment you have the collar around your neck. Then your job is doing as your told. Playing this mod, you have accepted that simple fact.

It isn't Hex's responsibility to try to alter his vision to accommadate everyone's view of immersive. That he seems so willing to, speaks volumes about his generosity.

But it is his vision, and his version of what's immersive that matters.

It is our job, both as players of the mod, and in game, to make it fit our own version of 'immersive.' 

[Sadem]

14 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's possible, but I think it will just make you find ways to avoid hitting the limit.  Throughout history, people have been very creative about dodging the tax man.  Keep excess gold at home, and you need never reach the limit in your inventory.  Or buy gems and carry them as a tradable commodity.  If you really just want a gold sink, you could crank up your owner's daily expenses.

Yeah its ok, I was just trying to resolve a rather unique situation of mods that I was into.

 

• I have the extended lola mod, which adds pack slave, which made me carry a 50 weight backpack.
• This means I cant carry my +50 weight frostfall backpack, so it essentially is -100 weight
• And because I have frostfall, I carry a tent and a set of fur armor and cloak, in addition to real armor for dungeons, some firewood and an axe, which adds more weight
• I also have a mod that lets me destroy locks with a mace, so I carry a mace too
• I have a mod that makes arrows weight, so I have to carry only a few of those, but even those add some weight
• And I have a mod that makes gold have a realistic weight, which is quite a lot (I had to use the console to increase my doms carry weight to over 9000 so she can carry the gold I give her)
• Most of the time my character is horny, because the dom doesnt let you release often, which gives the horny buff, giving me more carry weight, but each time I lose it, I actually went under my carry weight.

 

So when I leave the town, I have a very limited amount of space before its time to relax, which is generally fine, I enjoy juggling all these mods.

But since my gold started increasing, when I disabled the gold event to pay my dom, it started to literary become a burden lol. I had to disable that event, because I share all my gold with my dom, she gets ([my score]-1)%, so my income became tiny, there was no way I can gather 200 gold if I am broke when she requests it.

 

Anyway, I just ended up giving her half my gold (via trade) and waiting for the pack slave event to end, but I thought it would be cool if I had a more creative way to give her the gold.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sadem

[Anunya]

@Sadem - you could also open the console [~] and increase your encumbrance value either temporarily [player.modav carryweight 400] or permanently [player.forceav carryweight 400]. The temporary increase goes away on your next game load, the permanent one stays. Not sure if that will satisfy your situation (you could change the carryweight again after you've done your crafting).

Edited November 15, 2021 by Anunya

[HexBolt8]

I encourage suggestions.  No one has crossed the line in recent discussions.  It's all been polite and friendly.  A suggestion might spark an idea for something else that's fun, even if I don't implement that exact request.

 

Immersion is tricky.  Players have different ideas about what makes game play more immersive.  (It doesn't help when the base game tries to make players do tedious, grindy things.  I use the Honed Metal mod to allow me to hire a smith to sharpen a weapon or pay a mage to enchant an item.)  Sometimes this mod can help with that, to make a follower seem more alive.  For other things, I encourage players to use their imagination to fill in the gaps with something that seems reasonable when the game mechanics don't do a good job.

[bubba999]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I encourage suggestions. 

 

You mentioned earlier that you like to use vanilla followers. Could you please list a few of your favorites?

 

Other than that, the most domineering female has to be Uthgerd, right? But so much baggage....

[HexBolt8]

46 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

You mentioned earlier that you like to use vanilla followers. Could you please list a few of your favorites?

Actually, I prefer custom followers, the simple blank slate ones.  No baggage, and any history I care to think up.  There are so many out there, it's possible to use a different one on every playthrough.

[bubba999]

3 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Actually, I prefer custom followers, the simple blank slate ones.  No baggage, and any history I care to think up.  There are so many out there, it's possible to use a different one on every playthrough.

You're right. Any favorites?

[Anunya]

1 hour ago, bubba999 said:

You're right. Any favorites?

 

Here are the ones I use:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/23923

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/13448

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/20752

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/719

 

... but I'm always in the market for more, so if anyone has other recommendations I'd be happy to hear about them

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Anunya

[Shinobi7]

I remember seeing something about Submissive lola taking over Maria eden when asking companion to buy the PC's freedom? Is that stilll a thing?

EDIT: I think perhaps it is lola taking over devious followers slavery(?), but would be great if the above is also possible!

Edited November 16, 2021 by Shinobi7

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, Shinobi7 said:

I think perhaps it is lola taking over devious followers slavery(?), but would be great if the above is also possible!

Devious Followers has an option to use this mod for the debt enslavement.  SLTR doesn't do anything with Maria Eden.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

17 hours ago, bubba999 said:

You're right. Any favorites?

I've been using Juliana recently.

[CaptainJ03]

I think I just found a bug.?

I have the "kept forever" ticked in the MCM, Lola's submission score just passed that mark and I got a notification: "Achievement Unlocked: Kept Pet"

When I tell Mistress that I don't wat to be a slave anymore, she answers "You'll be my pet for ever and ever!"

But it is still possible to ask her for a contract, and she willingly accepts my submission for another four weeks (without telling if those four weeks start before or after eternity) and gives my that chunk of money that I've set in the MCM.

I think that the options to ask for a contract shouldn't be there anymore. This feels unimmersive!!! ?

 

And I found another way to get zapped to death: Ignore your clothing restrictions. Ouch!