Devious Followers - Continued

[bubba999]

21 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I have started to read through your blog, not nearly finished but commented on your cash alternative and roadmap. In this order, likely best to read them that way too. I might be a bit late for the cash alternative since i read you already started working on it... overall, i think my suggestions should at least be compatible to your plans, though.

And while reading through the blog i remembered one thing that currently bothers me currently ig and did so since the old DF: i really, really want a cooldown for the "I'm a slut" deal. I think i don't even know how any further stages look like because i get rid of it asap, or at least before i see stage 2. That it triggers 3 times in a row when i try to talk to 3 different NPCs... is still okish. What freaks me out though is when i try to talk to somebody specific, it triggers. Dialogue closed. I talk to him again, it triggers again - with consequences. I try again, triggers again. Then, for a change, it does not trigger. Instead, DCL triggers. Comment about my devices, maybe actions. Try again. The deal triggers again. Next try. DCL again, with consequences. Next try. This time i actually can talk to somebody.
That it takes me up to 20 minutes for a single "here is your stuff" comment to finish a quest is... not what i want, really. 

I second this commotion!

[bubba999]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

It was working for me. Many times. I'll see. Maybe it is a timer problem.

Appreciate that.

[Lupine00]

25 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

That it takes me up to 20 minutes for a single "here is your stuff" comment to finish a quest is... not what i want, really. 

I've noticed that too. I think there is a cooldown, and it probably doesn't work.

[Nazzzgul666]

3 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I've noticed that too. I think there is a cooldown, and it probably doesn't work.

If my memory isn't wrong it was on Lozeaks to-do list but he never really added it, although my memory might be wrong and he at least tried. It definitly doesn't work, though.^^

[Aldid]

3 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I have started to read through your blog, not nearly finished but commented on your cash alternative and roadmap. In this order, likely best to read them that way too. I might be a bit late for the cash alternative since i read you already started working on it... overall, i think my suggestions should at least be compatible to your plans, though.

And while reading through the blog i remembered one thing that currently bothers me currently ig and did so since the old DF: i really, really want a cooldown for the "I'm a slut" deal. I think i don't even know how any further stages look like because i get rid of it asap, or at least before i see stage 2. That it triggers 3 times in a row when i try to talk to 3 different NPCs... is still okish. What freaks me out though is when i try to talk to somebody specific, it triggers. Dialogue closed. I talk to him again, it triggers again - with consequences. I try again, triggers again. Then, for a change, it does not trigger. Instead, DCL triggers. Comment about my devices, maybe actions. Try again. The deal triggers again. Next try. DCL again, with consequences. Next try. This time i actually can talk to somebody.
That it takes me up to 20 minutes for a single "here is your stuff" comment to finish a quest is... not what i want, really. 

I second this. It's probably my favourite deal, but it usually ends up triggering so often that I get desperate to remove it. Same with the tape gag deal. Love the concept, but when my follower comments about how sweaty she's gotten from fighting 3 separate times when I've just been moving from merchant to merchant trying to sell things, it breaks immersion a bit.

[Xiaron]

5 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

And while reading through the blog i remembered one thing that currently bothers me currently ig and did so since the old DF: i really, really want a cooldown for the "I'm a slut" deal. I think i don't even know how any further stages look like because i get rid of it asap, or at least before i see stage 2. That it triggers 3 times in a row when i try to talk to 3 different NPCs... is still okish. What freaks me out though is when i try to talk to somebody specific, it triggers. Dialogue closed. I talk to him again, it triggers again - with consequences. I try again, triggers again. Then, for a change, it does not trigger. Instead, DCL triggers. Comment about my devices, maybe actions. Try again. The deal triggers again. Next try. DCL again, with consequences. Next try. This time i actually can talk to somebody.
That it takes me up to 20 minutes for a single "here is your stuff" comment to finish a quest is... not what i want, really. 

Thirding this request. I actually don't use the slut deal because of this, it drives me crazy way too fast. Which is sad, because it's fun until that point.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Xiaron said:

Thirding this request.

It's strange we have so many releases and suggestions, and this is the first time people are aligned on this?

 

Personally, I find the extreme annoyance a feature, but I complained about it myself if you look far enough back.

I just got used to it and stopped being bothered.

 

Anything else? If I'm going to do a 2.12.1, it should at least have more than one bug.

[valcon767]

11 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

And while reading through the blog i remembered one thing that currently bothers me currently ig and did so since the old DF: i really, really want a cooldown for the "I'm a slut" deal. I think i don't even know how any further stages look like because i get rid of it asap, or at least before i see stage 2. That it triggers 3 times in a row when i try to talk to 3 different NPCs... is still okish. What freaks me out though is when i try to talk to somebody specific, it triggers. Dialogue closed. I talk to him again, it triggers again - with consequences. I try again, triggers again. Then, for a change, it does not trigger. Instead, DCL triggers. Comment about my devices, maybe actions. Try again. The deal triggers again. Next try. DCL again, with consequences. Next try. This time i actually can talk to somebody.
That it takes me up to 20 minutes for a single "here is your stuff" comment to finish a quest is... not what i want, really. 

agreeing with (and saying pretty please with sugar and spice on top) this request.

 

workaround for me i to try to talk to someone and after the 3rd time i have to tell them "I'm a slut", i just talk to my follower and have him/her go do something,

anything at all, then immeadiately talk to the npc i need to,  works for me about 85% of the time to at least get to talk to the npc without the slut comment triggering,

still get hit by other triggers sometimes but at least i get thru it a lot faster.

 

[Darkwing241]

44 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

It's strange we have so many releases and suggestions, and this is the first time people are aligned on this?

 

Personally, I find the extreme annoyance a feature, but I complained about it myself if you look far enough back.

I just got used to it and stopped being bothered.

I have that deal running in my current game.

 

I feel the same way... about 20% of the time.  Sometimes it's annoying, sometimes it feels like it makes sense that the DF would do it over and over.  It never bothers me to the extent that others are saying.

 

Maybe lean into it? An acknowledgement of of the repetition could actually make it feel less like a bug.

 

"your follower puts her hand on your should... again!"

 

"Really you want me to do it again!" 

 

A bit of bottom up design to take advantage of the emotions the deal already triggers in the player rather than trying to force it to be something else?  That's kind of how all the best stuff in gaming is made.

 

Probably easier to just fix the delay though...

 

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

It's strange we have so many releases and suggestions, and this is the first time people are aligned on this?

 

Personally, I find the extreme annoyance a feature, but I complained about it myself if you look far enough back.

I just got used to it and stopped being bothered.

 

Anything else? If I'm going to do a 2.12.1, it should at least have more than one bug.

When you try to speak to the same npc 3 times in a row and the Devious Follower puts their hands on your shoulder every time and all you're trying to do is sell Belethor some stuff so you won't be over-encumbered any more (and might be able to pay off a little more debt) it starts to get annoying. I believe I've occasionally seen it happen 4-6 times in a row on older builds.

[Nazzzgul666]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's strange we have so many releases and suggestions, and this is the first time people are aligned on this?

 

Personally, I find the extreme annoyance a feature, but I complained about it myself if you look far enough back.

I just got used to it and stopped being bothered.

 

Anything else? If I'm going to do a 2.12.1, it should at least have more than one bug.

Proof that it's easier to align people on something they dislike rather than something they like. And that there isn't much in this mod people dislike.

I really don't have another idea other than already posted in your blog, if you don't want to add anything from your plans... i still want it limited at least, but Darkwings acknowledgement sounds good as well. If you want to have more work with it, do both - cool down after the 2nd-3rd time and complaints after the first.

[Lupine00]

19 hours ago, bubba999 said:

Appreciate that.

I think I may have reproduced this in general testing.

Funny nobody mentioned it... So much for betas... I probably broke something while I was changing how expensive deal worked.

[Lupine00]

20 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

I'm still fine tuning tho. Odd thing, the follower doesn't react to that high debt.

It's all proportional now. You don't get nonsense where your enslavement debt is less than your debt per day due to per-level modifier on one, but not on the other.

If you are quite high level, the debt-per-day can be a lot by default. 

If you are level 20 or something, those numbers sound super-broken.

Go through the MCM and check none of the scales are weirdly high.

Also, you will get a penalty for boredom. That penalty is invisible, but you can see the result in the effective discount on the stats page.

If that is negative, you're not getting a discount, you're getting charged extra.

[Lupine00]

14 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

f I use the reset in DFC debug MCM tab, wouldn't that also reset the debt?

Wouldn't change a DFC follower reset debt?

No, the resets do not do that. There is a way to reset debt by simply modifying the global.

Similarly you can set boredom, or your willpower, if perhaps you want to drop a follower and rehire them.

 

The resets are rather naively, exactly that, they reset the quests, but any state is kept. The resets merely clean out the aliases.

 

If you are enslaved via SS, debt is reset, or if you come into DF as a slave from a DF to DF sale, debt it reset, but you will get the enslavement debt in that case.

 

Some other follower hiring resets debt too, but I forget exactly which ones do and do not. Possibly all regular hiring resets debt.

I don't think it's a big deal as you can easily add debt to "fix" it if you want to, and there are even buttons for that.

 

Keep digging for bugs... Here's what I have to look at for 2.12.1 so far:

• Change level-one daily rate slider to use increments of 10.
• Add a slider to configure spanking cooldown.
• Add cooldown to slut deal hand-on-shoulder.
• Fix issues with debt early-payoff calculation.
• If you load saved settings from 2.11, the upgrade process will re-run to repair them.

[tester86]

Installed the newest version of DF with the animation pack. Spanking page says it's enabled, that's good. I have my follower, no debt, no deals, but when I go to talk to the follower I have to start with "Master?" And she says, "what do you want now," or something like that. I have no deals and will power is 7 so why is it making me call my follower master. Oh, and nowhere is there a line to ask for a spanking. I'm sure I did something wrong. Any ideas. Thanks!

[Xiaron]

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's strange we have so many releases and suggestions, and this is the first time people are aligned on this?

 

Personally, I find the extreme annoyance a feature, but I complained about it myself if you look far enough back.

I just got used to it and stopped being bothered.

 

Anything else? If I'm going to do a 2.12.1, it should at least have more than one bug.

Honestly? I forgot or I would have said something, though admittedly I wasn't aware it was a bug and not intended to work like that. Having turned the deal off and getting wrapped up in all your lovely changes it totally slipped my mind. Which probably means I ought to go through and test everything I turned off to see if what you've tweaked effects why I turned it off in the first place. Having the tooltips gone from the classic deals makes it harder to figure out what's supposed to be happening there, but since I figured that was intentional I hadn't brought it up. Really though, the changes you've made to DFC took the mod from fun but often frustrating, to an indispensable part of my mod list. So thank you.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Now, I wouldn't trust chaos mode anymore without an excel spreadsheet.

I you set most things up to use 0.9 to 1.1 you're only going to get a 10% variation.

Think about it that way.

 

Set 0.5 to 1.5 and it's a 50% variation.

 

Or set 1.0 and 1.0 for a value that isn't chaotic at all.

 

The only place you'd need a spreadsheet is daily debt, and you have the rate explorer for that.

 

You were probably joking, but I did use a spreadsheet to set these up, and there are graphs.

I have a new graph that I intend to post with the next front-page update.

[Lupine00]

45 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

No, I'm not joking

But seriously, there's nothing complicated about Chaos mode.

Setting a max of 2.0 could lead to double the normal price.

I don't think that's too confusing.

 

Unlike the old mode, where you could basically do nothing to set it up to level scale, now, everything in Chaos level scales in the same way.

Except follower lives... But level-scaling those makes no sense.

A max of 2.0 can always lead to double the normal price at level 1, or at level 66.

 

 

You've given me an idea:

4 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

I was mindless enough to import settings from the earlier DFC version:

That horribly corrupts your DF.

If you do that, I strongly recommend you force your version variable back to 211 and re-open the MCM so the update runs again.

 

In the update, I'll add a feature so if you load a 2.11 save into 2.12 it will re-run the upgrade process.

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, tester86 said:

I have no deals and will power is 7 so why is it making me call my follower master. Oh, and nowhere is there a line to ask for a spanking. I'm sure I did something wrong. Any ideas. Thanks!

Sounds like the install is corrupt somehow.

 

The dialogs are willpower based, and 7 should not say "Master".

Are you sure it really is 7?

Check that before you remove your DF, clean-save, and re-install, because that's the only thing I can suggest for corrupt dialog conditions.

 

 

Not seeing a spanking dialog is normal.

It will not show up until at least four (game time) hours have passed since hire or mod-update.

 

Even then, it will not show up unless your follower is bored, or you are an STA masochist at the "loves" level.

 

The guards dialog will only show up if you are an STA masochist at the "likes" level or above. It uses the same cooldown.

It will not show up until at least four game hours after mod-update.

[Lupine00]

9 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

chaos mode is only one part of the whole mod

There is no way I can stop being overly familiar with what it does.

 

But can you explain why it is hard to work out?

 

9 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

If it appears to be too glitched I will follow your update recommendation:

I should put some "repair" functionality into settings load, which will work even for seemingly up-to-date settings.

Ideally, it would bound everything, but that's an enormous chore.

 

Just as a general guide to 2.12 users, loading a 2.11 settings file into 2.12 is a bad idea. I should have blocked it.

[Lupine00]

Is there much interest in capping DF willpower based on ToH dignity?

 

This would cap regains, not actual willpower.

 

IF you have ToH installed, and IF you have the BruiserQuest, and IF you have taken on Bruiser's debt...

 

THEN WillpowerRegainLimitOnSleep = Round( YourDignity/10.0 )

 

Even at zero, you have small chance to regain a point.

[Lupine00]

Does anyone care about ZAP support?

 

e.g. Wearing a ZAP item is similar to wearing a DF item for deal-requirements?

As DD items can be manipulated, there's no profound difference in function.

 

One way to handle ZAP is to detect ZAP items and replace them with DD equivalents automatically.

This seems like a standalone mod really, but it's not too hard for basic bondage items like collars, belts, rope bondage, harnesses, etc.

[twsnider1138]

@Lupine00 umm, Assuming I’m on the default setting and I want my follower to remove an item I can’t pay for, is the markup SUPPOSED to be 11400 percent? I mean that seems a little high to put me into nearly $40,000 worth of debt for one gag. ?

[jfraser]

40 minutes ago, twsnider1138 said:

@Lupine00 umm, Assuming I’m on the default setting and I want my follower to remove an item I can’t pay for, is the markup SUPPOSED to be 11400 percent? I mean that seems a little high to put me into nearly $40,000 worth of debt for one gag. ?

Check one page back. This (or something similar) was just discussed.

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, twsnider1138 said:

Assuming I’m on the default setting and I want my follower to remove an item I can’t pay for, is the markup SUPPOSED to be 11400 percent? I mean that seems a little high to put me into nearly $40,000 worth of debt for one gag

Are you on an upgraded game?

Did you reload old settings?

Have you checked what's actually in the MCM?

 

 

Please ANYONE who has a question like this, you need to tell me the values you have set in the MCM for your cost settings:

• Difficulty
• Low level cost
• High level cost
• Your current level
• Your willpower
• Your boredom
• How many deals you have
• What is stated as your discount percentage in the stats page.
• Your daily debt on the stats page.
• And in this case, your device removal multiplier.

 

 

Also, whether your game is NEW to 2.12 or upgraded.

If upgraded, upgraded from WHAT VERSION?

 

 

 

In some other cases...

• Your punishment debt multiplier.
• Your deal debt relief scale
• Your deal buyout scale
• Your deal minimum duration
• Your deal premature buyout multiplier.
• Whether you are using Chaos.
• And if you *are* using chaos, what are the settings, and values - enable your ability to see them!

 

 

If you simply tell me you have a funny debt value, or an odd fee you didn't expect, that barely explains how you got there, or what you actually saw.

(I mean, where did this information show up?) 

A bug could be in a dialog, a message box, the MCM, an actual script that modified your cash...

 

Without detailed information, I cannot help you.

 

Anyone else who posts with a vague complaint about a debt or fee should just have this post linked to them.

If your bug report is vague, expect Ed86 type answers.

 

 

There might be a genuine problem here, or there might not.

The beta was up for TWO WEEKS with almost no changes (some minor tweaks to animation handling).

Nobody reported any problems like this.

 

If nobody tests betas, there's no point making them. Everything is beta.