Devious Followers - Continued

[MidnightMatter]

First off loving the mod but I think I might have hit a bug or my save game has become busted, I have no deals active but deal count is at 9 so I can't dismiss follower, is there a way to force the deal count to re calculate or otherwise some easy fix for the deal count?

How I think this happened is that I had a follower with 9 deals active and was sent to simple slavery by devious carriages continued and my old follower left but the deal count didn't reset when getting new follower.

I'm running 2.13.4 and I think all this happened in the same version but the installation has been updated prior to these events so there might be stuff left over from old versions in the save game (I have tried to not have a follower when updating).

Spoiler

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, MidnightMatter said:

First off loving the mod but I think I might have hit a bug or my save game has become busted, I have no deals active but deal count is at 9 so I can't dismiss follower, is there a way to force the deal count to re calculate or otherwise some easy fix for the deal count?

It's not so hard, but depending on what's wrong, correcting it may not really solve much, or it may go back again.

Try this:

Spoiler

setpqv _DFlowDealController Deals 0

setpqv _DFlowDealController DealsMax 0

 

[AndrewLRG]

Script _DFDealUberController in function GetPotentialDeal() contains segment

Spoiler

If DC.DealOMax > ownershipDeals
        If 2 == ownershipDeals
            If !DC.DealH1
                ownershipDeals = 3
            ElseIf DC.DealH2 && Utility.RandomInt(0, 99) < 50
                ownershipDeals = 3
            EndIf
        EndIf
    
        addDeal = ownershipDeals + 21
        If addDeal != RejectedDeal && MDC.IsClassicDealNoConflict("ownership", ownershipDeals+1)
            _Dutil.Info("DF - GetPotentialDeal - adding DealO " + addDeal)
            candidates[count] = addDeal
            count += 1
        EndIf
    EndIf

 

 

It uses DealH1 and DealH2 instead of DealO1 and DealO2 for OwnershipDeal. Is that intended?

[asdj1239]

What triggers "The follower interrupts and says to have sex with the sex slave" event? Is that lv2/3 of the slut deal?

[slvsaris]

Just ran across an issue.  (not SE ;))

 

Got transported to Sanguine's grove during sleep (SD) and was placed in Sanguine's bonds

 

While talking to the various NPCs there, the slut deal (I think it is the slut deal, the one where the follower taps you n the shoulder) Triggered.

 

However

 

Debt was less than 100g, no deals were active (I looked in the MCM to be sure)

 

Chaos mode is turned on, and auto pause is not on (not sure if this information is relevant)

 

Looked in the log and did not see anything related to DF other than the follower checks.

 

Let me know if there is any other information I can supply.

 

 

[Lupine00]

56 minutes ago, slvsaris said:

While talking to the various NPCs there, the slut deal (I think it is the slut deal, the one where the follower taps you n the shoulder) Triggered.

 

However

 

Debt was less than 100g, no deals were active (I looked in the MCM to be sure)

If this with version 2.13.4 ?

If so, it's fixed in 2.13.5 maybe try to visit dreamworld with the preview and confirm?

[Lupine00]

58 minutes ago, asdj1239 said:

Is that lv2/3 of the slut deal?

Can happen at any level of slut deal.

Requires a collar, and to be (simplistically) naked.

In 2.13.4 can happen without a slut deal at all, which is a bug.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, AndrewLRG said:

Is that intended?

No. It's a classic cut+paste bug.

 

Thanks for catching it.

 

It's not "deal corrupting" bug. It could cause you to get a lvl 3 deal variant you disabled, or not get one that is enabled, but can't cause you to get a deal you already have or that is otherwise invalid.

[Guest]

Hello, I would like to report some problems I have been encountering. I am using 2.13.4 LE, and I am on a new game (made to see how the deals you recently added work and to decide how to setup DFC for an actual gameplay). I am also using SLS, STA, Skooma Whore (with patch and Addicted by BaneMaster), MME and Milk Addict, and SLSO.

IN DFC, I enabled all the 5 Classic deals (up to stage 3, 15 stages in total) and 3 Modular deals (with 6 options enabled in the Stage1-2 list, i.e. offer sex, lactacid drink, spanking, amulet, ring and circlet, and 4 options enabled in the Stage 3 list, i.e. milking, merchant, keyholder, skooma, for a total of 9 stages that I should receive), for a total of 24 stages available. 

After setting up the various MCM in the LAL cell, I COC to the DF follower and recruit her (the follower is from a mod, but she is vanilla, and I do not use follower frameworks).

Then I start asking for deals, accepting all of them, while being in the Riften inn to see how their events play out. I have no other mod that can start scenes apart from DF (Milk Addict perhaps, but it never happened during the tests; I also have SLAdventures, but its rape feature is disabled).

I noticed a couple of things

• quite often when you start to reach the stages cap (24 in my case) the follower starts offering you the double time duration deal sistematically, even if you have still stages left, and even if you accept or reject the double duration deal many times (and I did for quite a few). For example I had 23 deal stages and was missing the Stage 3 ownership deal (denial chastity belt), which would never be selected as a new deal: I then bought out of another deal (the bondage deal), and asked again for deals, and was finally able to get all 24 stages. I had that happening also when having more deals left to reach the cap (like 21 deals accepted out of 24). 
• a similar problem I have with the Stage 3 selection for the modular deals. I have 3 deals active but with 4 choices for stage 3 deal, so for example if I have already accepted 8 stages (two complete sets up to stage 3, and one up to stage 2) I should be able to choose the last stage 3 deal by refusing the one the DF gives me, and asking again (and eventually repeat). What is happening instead is that I am always offered the same one (at least for every time I asked, and I tried quite a few). My impression is that the random deal selection (from the available pool) is done once, and then deals are offered based on that first selection (it could also be intended behavior). Perhaps this holds true also for the previous point. 
• sometimes events and scenes started by DFC overlap. For example in an instance I had the Merchant (modular) deal and the Whore (stage 3) deal: my DF offered the pc to a merchant (which was the innkeeper, since I was in Riften inn), the sex animation started, and during it the DF started to whore the pc out (i.e. the whore event kicked in). The current sex scene was not interrupted (the selected client from the whore event was waiting nearby), and at the end of the scene with the merchant, the client (for the whore event) paid the DF for the pc use (with one of the usual dialog line clients selected by the whore deal say after sex) but no sex scene was started with that client. Similar problems I had with scenes started by the stage 3 bondage deal (normal gag deal) and stage 3 ownership deal (denial). I actually had no occurrences of sex scenes started from an event being interrupted by another one, but I don't know if that might actually occur (I remember seeing it at some point in old versions of DFC).
• gangbangs started by the whore deal (stage 3) works well if the pc has no chastity belt or blocking gag, otherwise the event still selects 3 or 4 participants for the sex scene, but then the scene breaks and either masturbation scenes for the actors  involved start or something bad happens (from CTD to pc stuck in a sex scene with another actor, which is not actually in the same sex act, so that SLSO can't progress and the sex act has be to stopped from Sexlab).

A note also on the modular stage 3 anal plug deal (the one that makes the pc crawling): it seems the plug is broken, because it cannot be removed like similar plugs, even after having bought out of its deal (unless I miss something, e.g. it is actually non removable and the follower should remove it after paying for the deal).

 

Anyway thanks for your continued effort on the mod, which is now quite stable and enjoyable with all the bug fixes and improvements (and sorry for the wall of text). 

[slvsaris]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If this with version 2.13.4 ?

If so, it's fixed in 2.13.5 maybe try to visit dreamworld with the preview and confirm?

Just downloaded it, will give it a go and see what happens.

 

Update: It seems to have worked.  I have yet to see it happen after talking to several of the NPCs in dreamworld.

[asdj1239]

56 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Can happen at any level of slut deal.

Requires a collar, and to be (simplistically) naked.

In 2.13.4 can happen without a slut deal at all, which is a bug.

 

ah ok, thanks for that. you already answered my follow-up question - i was getting the event with no deals active.

[Lupine00]

Thanks for a really useful report. I get that you put a lot of time and effort into your investigation, and describing your results.

 

  

10 hours ago, deadayo said:

quite often when you start to reach the stages cap (24 in my case) the follower starts offering you the double time duration deal sistematically, even if you have still stages left, and even if you accept or reject the double duration deal many times (and I did for quite a few). For example I had 23 deal stages and was missing the Stage 3 ownership deal (denial chastity belt), which would never be selected as a new deal: I then bought out of another deal (the bondage deal), and asked again for deals, and was finally able to get all 24 stages. I had that happening also when having more deals left to reach the cap (like 21 deals accepted out of 24). 

That's by design.

You can't really get all the deals together; many overlap, and I try not to give deals that overlap too much. 

As you approach the threshold of running out, the "fall back" deals start getting added to the list of eligible deals to pick from (internally).

And as you get fewer and fewer other deals, the chance of a fallback being picked at random increases.

Thus, you may need to take quite a few more deals to finally max out everything that is allowable.

It's designed to create a little uncertainty about whether you're maxed out, extending the viability of the deals slot-machine a bit further.

 

That's not to say there are no bugs there, but to know if there's a bug requires careful review of the log.

If you look in the log, you can see what's going on, because I left all that spam in for now (I think) as it's still pretty fresh.

 

10 hours ago, deadayo said:

What is happening instead is that I am always offered the same one (at least for every time I asked, and I tried quite a few). My impression is that the random deal selection (from the available pool) is done once, and then deals are offered based on that first selection (it could also be intended behavior). Perhaps this holds true also for the previous point. 

That shouldn't happen unless there is only one left.

The mechanism for refusal is quite basic though. When you refuse, the refused deal is set into a single variable (let's call it a slot) that holds the last refused deal. That deal will not be offered in future offers, unless it's the only thing left to offer (at least that's the intent). Then, if you accept a deal, the refusal slot is cleared, so now you can get any deal again. Or, if you refuse a different deal, that will fill the slot instead. I could have made more than one slot, but it seemed unnecessary.

 

But if you refuse, and then get the same deal offered, it's likely due to a shortage of valid alternatives.

Could be a bug, but to find out I'd have to test this myself, or have a much more detailed report that has the log, and the list of what deals you got in what order. etc.

 

 

10 hours ago, deadayo said:

sometimes events and scenes started by DFC overlap. For example in an instance I had the Merchant (modular) deal and the Whore (stage 3) deal: my DF offered the pc to a merchant (which was the innkeeper, since I was in Riften inn), the sex animation started, and during it the DF started to whore the pc out (i.e. the whore event kicked in). The current sex scene was not interrupted (the selected client from the whore event was waiting nearby), and at the end of the scene with the merchant, the client (for the whore event) paid the DF for the pc use (with one of the usual dialog line clients selected by the whore deal say after sex) but no sex scene was started with that client. Similar problems I had with scenes started by the stage 3 bondage deal (normal gag deal) and stage 3 ownership deal (denial). I actually had no occurrences of sex scenes started from an event being interrupted by another one, but I don't know if that might actually occur (I remember seeing it at some point in old versions of DFC).

This is solidly in the basket of "classic DF has no event sequencer".

It's undoubtedly as you describe. And its probabilistic, so you could go a while and not see it, and then see it repeatedly, or the reverse.

I think that stopping this is both not hard, but also will be an ongoing process, because it will require me to update lots of different dialogs spread all over the place.

 

It was only a few weeks ago that @Pamatronic asked about how DFC protects scenes from interruption, and if there are events or state that can be used to do that reliably.

That question made me look into the issue, as as a result, in 2.13.4 I added something that should reliably be there for sex scenes, both in terms of not starting them from DF when it shouldn't, and firing the events reliably from DF.  But that's new code, relatively untested, and may well have bugs.

 

Classic DF has ad hoc use of dhlp-Suspend and dhlp-Resume, but it was highly erratic, and mostly not done. It could make things worse.

 

I've made it so the dhlp events should be used reliably, but the logic for handling it is by no means re-entrance safe. Things are better than they were, but it's not entirely robust. It's one of those areas where it's tricky because a trivial error can easily leave the entire mod locked up. That's something concerning me with fixing event re-entrance in DFC (or any mod) generally, which was not a topic that was addressed before - and TBH, most mods don't address it; a lot of modders are oblivious that it even exists as an issue - but putting in logic to handle that means that if something crashes in an event handler, the entire mod loses all event handling. Users can perceive this as reduced reliability because the results of "random Papyrus rubbish" are amplified. The extent to which mods (or vanilla) produce random Papyrus rubbish, filling your log full of warnings about None objects, invalid type conversions, etc, etc. has always been quite high. Some mods are quite toxic with the sheer volume of it - at that point the problems probably run deeper too (Wet & Cold for example). Generally, if a mod of mine is logging errors (and SLAX and SLD can in some situations) I put that on a list of things to fix, regardless of whether it has any further consequence or not. Leaving that stuff to build up starts to obscure real problems.

 

10 hours ago, deadayo said:

gangbangs started by the whore deal (stage 3) works well if the pc has no chastity belt or blocking gag, otherwise the event still selects 3 or 4 participants for the sex scene, but then the scene breaks and either masturbation scenes for the actors  involved start or something bad happens (from CTD to pc stuck in a sex scene with another actor, which is not actually in the same sex act, so that SLSO can't progress and the sex act has be to stopped from Sexlab).

That shouldn't happen, or in a rational world would not be able to happen. Alas, some of this is beyond my control... Read on  

 

All of the sex scenes begin with this:

 

    ; Don't attempt sex in full chastity.
    If !VaginalOk(PlayerRef) && !AnalOk(PlayerRef) && !OralOk(PlayerRef) && !BoobsOk(PlayerRef)
        Return False
    EndIf

 

So you have to have some orifice open for it to even try for sex...

Then it attempts for difference participant counts until it can start an animation.

If you don't have any valid animations it will fall down the chain of different searches and bail out with a fail at the end.

But probably it does finds an animation and starts it.

Then DD "fixes" it for you.

 

I can improve this a bit, as there are likely no group scenes with boob-sex, and checking for it is silly. There are definitely groups with oral though.

 

But a plausible "root cause" of the horrors you see is not DFC, it's the DD filter.

I don't see what version you are using, but here it becomes relevant.

(And I have never tested with DD5, and it's currently "not supported").

 

If you're in DD4, you can simply disable the filter and test without it.

 

If you're in DD5, and have access to @VirginMarie's "forbidden" mod that disables the DD filter, try with that and see if it makes the problem go away.

LL has banned distribution of that mod ... so if you don't have it, you would need to ask somebody that does have it, or simply edit your DD5 source to disable filtering.

 

It would be useful to confirm whether disabling the filter, in either DD4 or 5 makes a difference.

If it doesn't, then there's likely something I can do about the problem.

If it does, it's a DD5 issue, that should be reported to that mod's "team". They won't support DD4 so no point mentioning it.

 

It would be nice if you could simply tick a box and disable that filter in DD5, and I still don't understand why that option was removed, as it causes DD to break sex across your entire game, and becomes an argument for dumping the entire framework. It isn't necessary, it's a bizarre overreach that causes more problems than it can possibly solve.

 

I would say, in general, you want to disable that filter in any game. It rarely improves anything unless it's one-on-one sex with armbinder or similar. It shouldn't try to handle anything else - especially belts - but it sometimes does. I think maybe there are a couple of group animations for bound victim now, but that's not the issue here, the issue is belted animations.

 

 

It may be that in the case of a belt being present, I simply block all group sex, because it's going to produce the best outcome 99% of the time.

I'll probably add something like that in my current dev version. It will help a bit.

 

Longer term, I can put a more sophisticated chastity handler in, like the SLD one, which does all the animation searching up-front before starting any scenes.

DD filter can still wreck that though!

 

  

10 hours ago, deadayo said:

A note also on the modular stage 3 anal plug deal (the one that makes the pc crawling): it seems the plug is broken, because it cannot be removed like similar plugs, even after having bought out of its deal (unless I miss something, e.g. it is actually non removable and the follower should remove it after paying for the deal).

I probably need to test this. I think the item is a BlockGeneric, but otherwise should be removable.

Again, were you in DD5?

 

 

Overall, this has a lot of useful information.

I'll update the roadmap with some things from this.

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

As you approach the threshold of running out, the "fall back" deals start getting added to the list of eligible deals to pick from (internally).

And as you get fewer and fewer other deals, the chance of a fallback being picked at random increases.

Thus, you may need to take quite a few more deals to finally max out everything that is allowable.

It's designed to create a little uncertainty about whether you're maxed out, extending the viability of the deals slot-machine a bit further.

This system makes sense when the follower wants to trick a reluctant player into deals.

 

This system is frustrating and very time consuming when the player wants to select a specific set of deals and stages immediately after recruiting the devious follower.

 

 I would greatly appreciate an MCM option to turn off the fallback time extension deals.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Herowynne said:

This system is frustrating and very time consuming when the player wants to select a specific set of deals and stages immediately after recruiting the devious follower.

If you want a specific set of deals, it makes more sense to have a way to get specific deals via the MCM, and then you can just click on them and set them all up without churning through dialogs for ages. In that case you'll also see when taking a deal has locked you out of others.

 

But I've never had a request for something like that before. As far as I knew, the only audience for such a feature was me, and that only for testing.

[Guest]

Thanks for the detailed response.

 

13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Again, were you in DD5?

I am using DD4.

 

I have been testing this a bit further. I have toned down the test setup a bit to speed things up, so now I have 0 classic deals and 3 'complete' modular deals (with 6 options enabled in the Stage1-2 list, i.e. offer sex, lactacid drink, spanking, amulet, ring and circlet, and 4 options (so I have a spare one) enabled in the Stage 3 list, i.e. milking, merchant, keyholder, skooma), for a total of 9 stages that I should receive.

 

In this case when I have 8 accepted stages I can cycle, by repeatedly refusing, through the remaining two Stage 3 deals (interleaved with the occasional double duration deal, which I refuse too). But I observed two things

• sometimes when I have zero deal (so at the first time asking for a deal) the DF offers me the double duration deal. 
• sometimes when I have 8 accepted stages and I refuse a stage 3 deal, the DF offers it again if I ask for a new one. I had a case in which the milking stage 3 deal was offered four consecutive times. If I understood you right, this should not be happening, since there are two stage 3 deals left from which to choose.

 

11 hours ago, Herowynne said:

I would greatly appreciate an MCM option to turn off the fallback time extension deals.

This could be interesting, but instead of turning it off completely, since it enables the endless mode feature by paying debt in that way, perhaps it would be better to have an option to resort to the double deal duration only when the deal selection routine has no valid alternatives (i.e. a new distinct non conflicting deal) left.

 

 

EDIT:

Some more tests, this time with the Deep Debt feature.

First of all, is the deep debt deal (which is listed under stage 1-2) also available as a stage 3 deal? I remember older versions of DFC having two distinct check boxes for level 1-2 and 3.

 

A couple of test cases regarding deep debt.

 

Test case A:  3 'complete' modular deals with 7 options enabled in the Stage1-2 list (i.e. offer sex, lactacid drink, spanking, amulet, ring and circlet, and deep debt) and 3 options enabled in the Stage 3 list (i.e. merchant, keyholder, skooma).

In this case, as the last 9th deal, by repeatedly refusing the offered deal I got and accepted a deep debt deal as a stage 3 deal (with debug message in the screen left corner, and related entry in the Stats tab). If deep debt can also be a stage 3 deal, then it's inteded behavior.

 

If deep debt can also be a stage 3 deal though, then I could have less enabled deals (with respect to the 'complete' modular deal number) in the stage 3 list and eventually receive deep debts deals in those slots, and that is what I tried with Test case B.

 

Test case B:  3 'complete' modular deals with 7 options enabled in the Stage1-2 list (i.e. offer sex, lactacid drink, spanking, amulet, ring and circlet, and deep debt) and 2 options enabled in the Stage 3 list (i.e. merchant, keyholder).

In this case when all stage 1 and 2 slots are already occupied (i.e. 6 deals accepted), I start receiving deep debt deals as stage 3 deals but if I accept them they are not actually added (no debug message in the screen left corner, and no related entry in the Stats tab).

 

 

Finally, an unrelated question regarding interaction with POP. Can they work together, i mean is it safe to suspend the mod from MCM while imprisoned and reactivate it after? Unless DFC does it already by itself. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, deadayo said:

First of all, is the deep debt deal (which is listed under stage 1-2) also available as a stage 3 deal?

It is intended to be.

 

I'm probably not going to disable time extensions for endless mode, as they are a mechanic that means - by design - there is no limit on the deals you can receive. Without that, you simply run up against a deal-wall. For non-endless mode, maybe, but it's a niche feature, and the reason for wanting it suggests better alternative changes anyway.

 

 

Please provide exact and complete details of your testing deal configuration.

Just take screenshots if that's easiest.

What deals, and for each deal the rules in it.

Also a configuration save JSON.

 

 

I can probably reproduce something eventually, but if I have your config and it doesn't reproduce, that's something discovered very quickly.

And if I can reproduce it quickly, that's a win too.

 

 

  

1 hour ago, deadayo said:

Finally, an unrelated question regarding interaction with POP. Can they work together, i mean is it safe to suspend the mod from MCM while imprisoned and reactivate it after? Unless DFC does it already by itself. 

Yes. You can do that. I've done it myself.

But if you're only in PoP for a game day, leave DFC running. PoP is aware of followers and will tidy them away.

You'll still get billed for their time. And you deserve to be, criminal!  

[ElizabethEC]

Hey there Lupine, got a few things for ya here

 

First off, a big thanks for having taken over this mod and done so much to improve it. It's one of the few mods that's made my 'every playthrough' list, and the work on stability has done a lot to help with that.

 

Secondly, spotted a little exploit today that I haven't seen anyone report yet having gone back 10 or so pages in the chat.

Spoiler

You gave the followers an option to request bondage gear, but these requests have no limitations on them. It's possible to fill your entire carry cap just by asking them over and over, and then sell them at Dollmaker's or Laura's and get days/weeks worth of hiring fees with zero risk. I'd suggest either adding a secondary menu where you request the exact item you want and then they lock it onto you rather than just handing it over, or just putting a time limit on how often you can request free items.

 

Third, in regards to your post several days ago about the Boredom system being rather lackluster, I think part of the problem lies in the implementation order. Boredom is the end result of that whole system, yet boredom itself doesn't actually do anything besides create a slight additional price adjustment. In my experience with the system, and the way that I personally re-flavor things in the narrative, I think that a possible option could be to reverse the current flow of the system. Boredom increments with time, and each time it does so there's a random roll, thinking like 10-20% per boredom as default. If the check fails, nothing happens and you wait for the next increment. If it succeeds, then that means the follower is now going to attempt to force a deal on you the next time you talk to them. Player can choose to try to resist, chance of success based on their Willpower (10% per, so if you maintain a perfect 10 you're safe, but every point lost becomes a bit more meaningful). If you resist, then boredom remains and will rise next increment, making it ever harder to keep fending their demands off... once you fail to resist they apply a random deal stage with no benefits and all the usual costs, and reset their boredom to zero. Player can also take a deal at any time willingly to reset boredom and get the bonuses, so it creates another sort of risk/reward situation there... how long do you toy with letting their boredom stew and risk getting stuck with the forced deal?

 

Fourth and finally, a small personal nitpick with the current Resistance/Willpower system... which I lightly touched on in the last point... namely granularity and making each point meaningful. As someone who plays kinky Skyrim with a setup that doesn't involve 45 minutes of sex anims every hour, progressing through the system can be incredibly difficult... often relying almost entirely on fatigue to drain down the maximum values unless I set them so low that I ping-pong from 'perfectly fine' to 'totally broken' and back again on a regular basis. One of the things I think would help a lot here would be to create more differentiation in the Willpower tiers. Right now, apart from a few of the games having specific requirements, it seems like there's basically just 6+ Willpower is good and 5 or less is bad. Adding more factors that change along the journey, and more dialogue variations to represent that journey, is a big project, but I think it'd flesh things out to a level that very few mods ever get close to. Also, as a quicker and vastly easier help in the meantime, would it be possible to change the 'Willpower recovered on rest' to a 'Resistance recovered on rest'? For those of us that set up a slow burn system, recovering even a single full Willpower daily can make progress virtually impossible, so having the option to recover only a fraction of a point would be a huge help for that playstyle.

 

Hope at least some of this is helpful and/or inspirational

[Guest]

 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Please provide exact and complete details of your testing deal configuration.

 

Regarding this case

 

3 hours ago, deadayo said:

I have been testing this a bit further. I have toned down the test setup a bit to speed things up, so now I have 0 classic deals and 3 'complete' modular deals (with 6 options enabled in the Stage1-2 list, i.e. offer sex, lactacid drink, spanking, amulet, ring and circlet, and 4 options (so I have a spare one) enabled in the Stage 3 list, i.e. milking, merchant, keyholder, skooma), for a total of 9 stages that I should receive.

 

In this case when I have 8 accepted stages I can cycle, by repeatedly refusing, through the remaining two Stage 3 deals (interleaved with the occasional double duration deal, which I refuse too). But I observed two things

• sometimes when I have zero deal (so at the first time asking for a deal) the DF offers me the double duration deal. 
• sometimes when I have 8 accepted stages and I refuse a stage 3 deal, the DF offers it again if I ask for a new one. I had a case in which the milking stage 3 deal was offered four consecutive times. If I understood you right, this should not be happening, since there are two stage 3 deals left from which to choose.

 

the required files are inside the folder labeled  "test case 1" in the attached file. 

With the provided starting point (in the deals screenshot) I was able to get 2 consecutive merchant deal offers and 2 consecutive skooma deal offers (you may have to try for some time though).

 

As for this other one

 

3 hours ago, deadayo said:

Test case B:  3 'complete' modular deals with 7 options enabled in the Stage1-2 list (i.e. offer sex, lactacid drink, spanking, amulet, ring and circlet, and deep debt) and 2 options enabled in the Stage 3 list (i.e. merchant, keyholder).

In this case when all stage 1 and 2 slots are already occupied (i.e. 6 deals accepted), I start receiving deep debt deals as stage 3 deals but if I accept them they are not actually added (no debug message in the screen left corner, and no related entry in the Stats tab).

 

the folder is "test case B". Inside there are two images, in one the test passes (i.e. I was able to get the deep debt deal as a stage 3 deal in the Stats tab), in the other it did not. In the pass case, there are no other deep debt deals (in stages 1-2) and I got it as a stage 3 deal. In the fail case, there is a deep debt deal as a stage 2 deal, and when the DF offers it again as a stage 3 deal (on the same deal set) and I accept it, still it is not added. So the problem here could be that the deep debt has already been used as a stage 1-2 deal (not necessarily in the same deal set) or that there are 2 deep debt deal (one being a stage 3 deal) in the same deal set.

 

 

report.7z

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, deadayo said:

Regarding this case

The intent is that you can have deep debt in any slot of a modular deal, and that was definitely possible in some earlier builds.

The amount of deep debt you have to pay off takes account of this, or should, so a triple hit of deep debt in one deal is some extremely deep debt.

 

I'll look at these this week, but I won't be able to begin until at least mid-week.

[slvsaris]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The intent is that you can have deep debt in any slot of a modular deal, and that was definitely possible in some earlier builds.

The amount of deep debt you have to pay off takes account of this, or should, so a triple hit of deep debt in one deal is some extremely deep debt.

 

I'll look at these this week, but I won't be able to begin until at least mid-week.

Speaking of deep debt, when I first tried chaos mode I ended up with billions in debt, like I was pretty sure there was not enough gold in the game to pay it off lol.  Not sure what happened there (quite possible my save was messed up), and it has not happened since.  I just thought it was kind of funny.

[asdj1239]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:15 PM, Lupine00 said:

I wouldn't say it's a "known issue", but there was one report a bit similar. It's hard to say, because people rarely give sufficient detail of their setup to know whether it was something to do with another mod they had, a simple misconfiguration of DF, an SE conversion, or who knows what? They said it went away on a new game, but they might have changed some other things too.

 

Enslavement forcegreets weren't changed from the previous versions, so shouldn't suffer an upgrade issue.

 

 

If yours is stuck, maybe it's worth investigating a little further to confirm a cause/remedy with more certainty?

Maybe you could provide more detail on your configuration: what DF version was the original install, whether you have other possible conflicting mods, such as SL Approach, SLS, SLTR, etc, whether you're on SE, how much debt you have, what your debt limit is, whether you're in "endless mode", whether you set "skip to the end", etc.

Did you try sleeping?

How long has the debt been outstanding, etc?

 

My guess is that the cause is quest priority is too low, and some other mod is blocking it.

Whenever I've had a forcegreet not work in development, that was the reason.

 

It might be that I need to make a non-forcegreet workaround for this - so once you reach the point where you're over the limit, all regular DF dialogs lead to a "Let's work it out" discussion.

 

I take it you've never seen a "Let's work it out" dialog?

You should see one more or less every time you go over the debt limit.

 

If you want to do anything other than just make a new game and see what happens, then I need more information.

 

 

I have the exact same issue, however I am assuming that it has emerged at some point in my play through and hasn't always been there. I say this because there was one time in my play through so far where I had the force into deal event happen, but since then have never had an event trigger related to debt (forced deal or enslavement). I've also never had debt threshold events trigger on past plays with older versions. although in the past I've only ever spammed wait or added debt in debug to try and trigger it. This is the first time I've tried to get the event to happen organically.

 

I'm playing with the latest DF version (fresh save, never updated versions), I dont *think* I have any mods that would conflict with it (but I do have deviously enslaved, and helpless also installed, as well as EFF.) I am on SE though, so understandable if you don't support that. I've already tried sleeping several times, and was playing without sleeping for probably a couple hours real time or more with outstanding debt above threshold.

 

 

edit:

On 3/5/2021 at 4:31 AM, kylexf said:

I think I'm having some sort of Forcegreet issue (honestly complete guess) where the follower won't enslave even after debt gets ridiculously high (100k+ on a level 20 character with normal enslavement multipliers).  Is the a likely known issue here or is best bet starting a new game?

 

If you're still having this issue - literally as I was typing this comment up I managed to get the event to work. I tried several things but the only thing that worked for me was dismissing the follower (I'm not sure which mod causes this or if it's because I'm using a non-vanilla follower but there are two different dialogue options to dismiss for me, I had to clear debt then dismiss with one option, then repeat for the other). I then had to clean system in EFF, then I was able to re-recruit the follower (I recruited directly through EFF, not dialogue) and the event was working (tested by adding debt in the debug tab of DF, then waiting to update debt). The first debt increment that occurred above threshold didn't trigger it, but the second did. Maybe if you have EFF or a similar follower mod it may work for you. I guess it's a bit immersion-breaking but you can revert your follower to it's previous state other than deals you accepted after re-recruiting.

[Kimy]

On 3/20/2021 at 8:16 PM, Lupine00 said:

It would be nice if you could simply tick a box and disable that filter in DD5, and I still don't understand why that option was removed, as it causes DD to break sex across your entire game, and becomes an argument for dumping the entire framework. It isn't necessary, it's a bizarre overreach that causes more problems than it can possibly solve.

 

That's outdated information. The filter had a bug that was still persistent in 5.0, but it's fixed in 5.1. Including you, there are people raging against the filter really all over the place, but what they did and are still doing boils down to throwing spite at me for my code not being 100% bug-free. Whether or not you think that's a fair thing to do, considering that no software is bug-free, is up to you, I guess.

 

 

On 3/20/2021 at 8:16 PM, Lupine00 said:

Longer term, I can put a more sophisticated chastity handler in, like the SLD one, which does all the animation searching up-front before starting any scenes.

 

That's super easy to do in DD5. It has API functions that do all the work for you and select valid animations based on your scene actors' current "accessibility". All you'd need to do is handling any required/desired fallbacks in case there is NO valid animation. Check zadlibs.SelectValidDDAnimation() or zadlibs.StartValidDDAnimation(). If SelectValidDDAnimation() returns none you'll know that there is currently no valid animation that can be played for the actors passed to the function. In this case a well-written DD-aware mod should probably use a fallback for clean story progression etc. Like a "Shame, but it seems there is no way to have fun with you right now!" dialogue. Mind you that even if you're just firing away sex scenes directly to SexLab, the filter will terminate them gracefully, even when they're determined not to be valid and no replacement can be found. So even if your code is hooking into OnAnimationEnd of an animation that gets terminated, the code won't/shouldn't break.

 

 

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

I have the exact same issue,

Whatever causes this, it likely isn't a "bug" in DFC in the conventional sense we understand bugs.

At least, we have yet to blame it on some wrong code or bad record in DFC.

In the majority of games, and my own tests, it works as expected.

 

 

The problem of the follower not enacting expected debt enforcements can emerge for diverse reasons, regardless of what DFC does.

 

Here are a few obvious once:

• Installation of a mod with high-priority quests that modify follower AI that block DFC from running its AI packages.
• Suspension of a stack that is used for processing the quest - so it's no longer running.
• Corruption of the quest state due to "generic" save damage, that results in the quest VMAD losing all its properties (and probably many other of your quests losing theirs too). This is the classic "broken game", and its usually incipient from the very moment you started that game - it was always broken, you just didn't realize - but can also be caused by excessive meddling with load-order during play. The typical "meddling" I'm thinking of here, is running LOOT mid-game - which new users may do, oblivious to the risks.
• Known Skyrim AI handling bugs that prevent packages being evaluated properly or promptly. (Some fixes exist for this).

 

If your game only develops issues later in play, it's probably one of the first two problems.

 

 

However, there's no reason there can't be a bug in DFC that causes problems in debt processing.

Maybe a problem in PAUSE and UNPAUSE?

Maybe a problem due to passing through Simple Slavery?

 

Those issues would be reproducible, so they could be discovered and fixed.

However, doing so require an impacted user to report their problems accurately, and then engage fully in diagnosing the issue.

That hasn't happened so far.

What has happened is users seeing this problem, then resolving it by some means, including starting a new game; as a result, the issue has never been deeply investigated.

However, in the only case I've seen this happen myself, it was due to high quest priorities in other mods.

[asdj1239]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Whatever causes this, it likely isn't a "bug" in DFC in the conventional sense we understand bugs.

At least, we have yet to blame it on some wrong code or bad record in DFC.

In the majority of games, and my own tests, it works as expected.

 

Here are a few obvious once:

• Installation of a mod with high-priority quests that modify follower AI that block DFC from running its AI packages.
• Suspension of a stack that is used for processing the quest - so it's no longer running.

If your game only develops issues later in play, it's probably one of the first two problems.

 

 

That's interesting, even if some of the technical jargon went over my head. This is obviously a very uninformed opinion, but it does sound like my issues are due to one of the first two problems. I haven't used the pause/unpause options on my current playthrough (yet), or been sent to SS++. I have however played through the full DCL 9.0 quest line, which likely have high priority. Other than that, everything I've played has been mostly vanilla quests, and one follower mod questline (I've experienced this problem only playing DCL and vanilla questlines before though). Because I do seem to be able to "fix" the issue by essentially resetting my devious follower and rerecruiting them, there isn't something fundamentally broken but rather it is an emergent problem. I have admittedly fiddled with my load order a couple of times, but only with texture mods where something wasn't displaying correctly. Maybe that caused it, but it seems unlikely to me.

 

I guess my main problem with diagnosing the issue is that I never notice when it starts, especially since I can't just sit above debt threshold all the time to try and pinpoint actions that may trigger the bug because obviously when there is no issue, DF catches debt threshold being exceeded and executes the event properly.

 

I'm not sure how common a problem this is, but if it is common then I think you're solution of a "non-forcegreet workaround" would be perfect - most of the events in the mod seem to be able to execute normally when this problem is present, the only thing that stops working for me (at least as far as I've noticed) are event triggers related to debt. Maybe good incentive for me to start properly learning how to mod skyrim myself...

[asdj1239]

For anyone who is having issues triggering debt threshold events (i.e. enslavement, "severe punishment"), I found a better fix than the one I previously posted which is arguably more "immersive".

 

Make a save, then pay off your follower and dismiss them. If using a follower controller mod like EFF, clean the system through that mod's MCM as well. Make sure you're follower is actually unrecruited (i.e. run away from them, they shouldn't follow you). Go back to them and recruit them again, then wait for DF to initialize on the follower. ** Go into DF's debug menu in MCM, add debt over enslavement threshold, then sleep for whatever you've set the billing interval to be. If the debt threshold event doesn't occur (you may need to wait a minute or two first), then repeat this. If the issue is fixed then it should occur within 2-3 sleeps. ** Once it occurs, create a new save, then load the save you made before (do not quit to main menu here). Once loaded, resave the game. Quit out of Skyrim and relaunch, load them most recent save (this step is probably unnecessary). Should now be fixed on your current save, maintaining your current progress.

 

** This step may not be necessary, it is just to make sure the debt threshold events are actually working.