Devious Followers - Continued

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Meladiator said:

Not to sound... demanding, but if this is an issue you would rather not fix or take the time to look into

To put this in perspective, I have spent the entire week and a good part of the previous week chasing this dead-end instead of doing what I planned, and it's gone nowhere.

I cannot find a bug.

I can test this over and over, and it works just fine.

I never see these deal filling problems, or weirdness with expensive deals.

 

The common-thread with these issues is people running on SE.

I cannot imagine why it would behave differently there, but I get the sense that maybe the SE port is missing a script fragment or more than one, or cannot load them.

There's definitely something more going on with SE than in the LE world where I tested this.

 

That's assuming these tests that showed problems were all on new games not updates of older potentially flawed SE conversions, and otherwise devoid of obvious explanations for difference, like failure to operate mod manager.

 

Where these issues occur, they're consistently reported on platforms I can't debug, by players who engage up-to-a-point, but aren't providing the logs or quest state dumps that would make it possible to better identify what they're seeing. If you want the instrumented code version of DFC to run, that will dump out all the details on why your deals are assigned as they are, then please say so, and I'll post it so you can run with that and provide proper feedback. Otherwise, there isn't any more I can do about it.

 

 

So, it's not that "I would rather not fix" ... I simply cannot justify delaying all development and actual bug fixing further in pursuit of a bug that I cannot reproduce.

[Meladiator]

42 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

So, it's not that "I would rather not fix" ... I simply cannot justify delaying all development and actual bug fixing further in pursuit of a bug that I cannot reproduce.

I understand completely I'm just suggesting ideas for that same reason. I understand that you're not noticing a bug because you can't replicate it. I'm okay with development, trust me, I love this mod and to see it expand is... exhilarating to me. The more you expand it, in my eyes, the less complaints you have from me. So long as it doesn't break my game lol.

[Lupine00]

16 minutes ago, Meladiator said:

because you can't replicate it

Is it possible that this bug only occurs due to deal buyouts?

 

When I've tested this, for the most part I've investigated different configurations, disables, etc. I've gone from zero deals, to full deals.

I have tested some buyouts, and they were always fine, but maybe there's something else that has to happen as well?

 

If you try a new game in your SE version ... use LAL to start in a city, find a follower and add some debt, then start asking for deals constantly ... does it work differently than what you saw before?

 

Or is that what you were doing?

 

  

6 hours ago, Meladiator said:

When I ask for a deal, 90% of the time it gives the extend a deal dialogue, but gives a regular deal, throughout the entire mod.

That sounds extremely like you have an old ESP, or an updated game that once had an old ESP in it.

 

But if that's not the case, I think it's safe to say the SE ESP is full of nonsense.

 

I know it sounds like a silly question, but you don't have some old copy of the mod that you forgot about, that is performing a partial overwrite on your new install? It happens surprisingly easily in a big MO setup, where you've had patches and other things, and lots of profiles, sometimes an old install ends up left in by mistake, buried down at the bottom of the left pane where you don't notice it.

 

I've done this a few times myself with MERGE patches I made that had a lot of records from other mods, that I then forgot to disable when making a new profile.

[Meladiator]

7 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

If you try a new game in your SE version ... use LAL to start in a city, find a follower and add some debt, then start asking for deals constantly ... does it work differently than what you saw before?

I'll try this out later or tomorrow but I used LAL to start in the college, and did the first quest or so just so I could get Brelyna, so we're talking about maybe an hour or two of game time, maximized my deals right then and there and that's pretty much where I still am.

 

32 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

That sounds extremely like you have an old ESP, or an updated game that once had an old ESP in it.

Perhaps. But it wouldn't be because of me. I use Vortex, and I have been modding this god forsaken game for the nearly 9 years. I've gotten pretty good at determining whether or not bugs are my own fault when it comes to the file system and structure. I never have 2 versions of the same mod installed and overwrite, and I never remove mods that have scripts mid play-through, and refrain from adding mods in general unless I start a new game.

[Herowynne]

47 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

 

  

6 hours ago, Meladiator said:

When I ask for a deal, 90% of the time it gives the extend a deal dialogue, but gives a regular deal, throughout the entire mod.

That sounds extremely like you have an old ESP, or an updated game that once had an old ESP in it.

 

But if that's not the case, I think it's safe to say the SE ESP is full of nonsense.

 

I know it sounds like a silly question, but you don't have some old copy of the mod that you forgot about, that is performing a partial overwrite on your new install? It happens surprisingly easily in a big MO setup, where you've had patches and other things, and lots of profiles, sometimes an old install ends up left in by mistake, buried down at the bottom of the left pane where you don't notice it.

 

I've done this a few times myself with MERGE patches I made that had a lot of records from other mods, that I then forgot to disable when making a new profile.

Can confirm that I see the same behavior on SE with DFC 2.13.5 on a new game, with definitely no old stuff lingering from an old version of DFC.

 

”When I ask for a deal, 90% of the time it gives the extend a deal dialogue, but gives a regular deal”. For me, that problem occurs 80-90% of the time.

 

As a workaround, I go into the MCM after every deal to see what I actually got.

 

 I have observed this behavior on multiple new games. For me, this behavior started several DFC versions ago, maybe with 2.13.2 (whichever version was the major overhaul).

 

@Lupine00 I have not wanted to bother you about this because the problem seems to be specific to SE. But it definitely is a problem on SE.

 

And I.should mention that I use my own SE conversion of DFC 2.13.5, so that means the same problem is occurring in two different SE conversions.

[darkfender666]

I have a problem with selling player..

It switches to regular contract to slavery sort but without the option of buying back  and forcing player to wear stuff

 

Is this normal? it didn't work like this in old versions (3 or 4 ago the one before this was the same and i hoped it would be fixed).

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Herowynne said:

And I.should mention that I use my own SE conversion of DFC 2.13.5, so that means the same problem is occurring in two different SE conversions

It sounds like VMQuestVariable updates happen differently in SE and are not being reflected immediately into the dialog conditions, while in LE they are.

This likely caused issues with the slut deal too.

 

I don't know what needs to be done to make that work OK in SE.

 

The new enslavement support relies on a similar mechanic to select the special Lola dialog vs the other dialogs, so that will likely fail in SE too. Though for that I'm using a GlobalVariable, so maybe those are still ok in SE?

 

The issue is a value set in a fragment in an early dialog is used in a later dialog in the same tree.

i.e. The deal is selected in the start fragment for the "Let's make a deal" and then that value is used to select an info in a topic that follows on from that, and then used again later in the acceptance fragment. In the case of the acceptance it's clearly getting the correct value, but the info in the middle didn't select the correct dialog and is instead selecting garbage. Thus none of the infos match conditions and the final one is used...

 

Or maybe it's just an issue with info sequencing, and in SE the sequence is garbled?

 

Somebody who knows the details of SE modding needs to tell me how to work around it, because the actual mechanic is essential in some form, but there are ways to vary it and there is probably a pattern that works OK in SE. Maybe globals are fine, and it's just quest variables? Or maybe both have problems?

 

 

  

3 hours ago, darkfender666 said:

have a problem with selling player..

It switches to regular contract to slavery sort but without the option of buying back  and forcing player to wear stuff

To be clear, you don't get an option to pay off your debt when enslaved?

By default, initially you will be in gold control and must clear that first before you can even hope to buy out of slavery - that is by design.

However, you can clear your debt while in gold control, so when you get out, you are effectively able to buy out of enslavement immediately if you did that.

 

Are you in gold control?

 

Are you using SE?

[slvsaris]

I just lost a whole lot of named items I spent weeks fighting through dungeons to get.  The follower said we need to talk and I owed them a lot of gold.  I said I have the money, they got mad an took all my stuff.  Not liking the idea that the follower can take 90% of your stuff with no real warning and no way to get it back.   There should be a way to get it back.  And there was enough gold for them to take instead of all my stuff.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, slvsaris said:

There should be a way to get it back.

You will be overjoyed to discover that there is.

There should be something in your quest journal. If not, then there's a bug.

 

Tip: pay your follower, then follower never robs all your stuff and give you a fraction of the value.

 

Oh, and you would have sooo loved Lozeak's Dwarven Gauntlets boss loot item. Such a pity I stopped that dropping.

[darkfender666]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

  

To be clear, you don't get an option to pay off your debt when enslaved?

By default, initially you will be in gold control and must clear that first before you can even hope to buy out of slavery - that is by design.

However, you can clear your debt while in gold control, so when you get out, you are effectively able to buy out of enslavement immediately if you did that.

 

Are you in gold control?

 

Are you using SE?

I am using LE, i disabled gold control from MCM before even starting the game from scratch (new game).

I have some deals but when player is sold istead of the regular dialogue i get "what should i wear" that is the dialogue for slavery i guess.

Same happened in previous game with previous version with endless mode activated.

 

Happens ONLY if player is sold and it always happens. 

[Lupine00]

24 minutes ago, darkfender666 said:

Same happened in previous game with previous version with endless mode activated.

It looks like it's been broken for ages.

The base conditions for the "sold" quest dialogs are very wrong.

I don't think it was changed recently, so it's possible that in most cases the sold quest simply didn't work when it was supposed to, and a fix somewhere else has brought it back to life.

 

You should be able to make your game sensible again with:

Spoiler

 

reset _DFlow

setstage _DFlow 10

 

 

[paparebbe]

Hi! Not sure if that's the appropriate topic to ask for this sort of help, but i'm guessing this should be really easy to fix. So i've downloaded the 'DF CBBE Whore Armor Meshes + Bodyslide' and build batch in Bodyslide for all uniforms. Yet in game the UNP body is still being used instead of my CBBE preset, which results in looking like this:
 

Spoiler

Could somebody help my dumb ass with this issue? Where do i click?))

[A Little Kitten]

Hello,

i woukld like to ask how to make the custom whore armor. I found the instruction.

 

Am i supposed to:

Download mod

put the entire mod into the folders (heavy light mage)

delete the original files

run  bodyslide

 

Is that it ?

 

 

Because i tried putting there only the files from the mod, character goes invisible (yes i did click the mcm custom armor box)

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, paparebbe said:

Could somebody help my dumb ass with this issue? Where do i click?))

I don't think that's the wrong body or armor, I think - and it's only a guess because I have very little information to go on - that you built with the wrong slider configuration.

 

i.e. You are mixing builds from two different Bodyslide slider sets.

 

Also, if you are CBBE throughout your game, then a UNP body would display misplaced breast textures due to your CBBE textures.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, A Little Kitten said:

to make the custom whore armor. I found the instruction.

Files must have the right names as well as be in the right place.

See guide on the front page of this mod.

[darkfender666]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It looks like it's been broken for ages.

The base conditions for the "sold" quest dialogs are very wrong.

I don't think it was changed recently, so it's possible that in most cases the sold quest simply didn't work when it was supposed to, and a fix somewhere else has brought it back to life.

 

You should be able to make your game sensible again with:

  Hide contents

 

reset _DFlow

setstage _DFlow 10

 

 

But i don't think its my game since i restarted from new game reinstalling all mods expecially for that issue ... i will try the workaround ty.

 

P.S. in old versions sold quest worked perfectly fine. if i remember well in 2.03a worked i guess. 

 

p.p.s says reset inst a command nor the console it recognizes _DFlow fariable

[paparebbe]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't think that's the wrong body or armor, I think - and it's only a guess because I have very little information to go on - that you built with the wrong slider configuration.

 

i.e. You are mixing builds from two different Bodyslide slider sets.

 

Also, if you are CBBE throughout your game, then a UNP body would display misplaced breast textures due to your CBBE textures.

 Yeah, you're probably right. But how do i switch to a proper slider configuration?
The thing is - it looks like the outfit itself does fit my main (Misty) CBBE preset, however in game the UNP body is being used instead of CBBE one.
I'm very unexperienced with Bodyslide and i only figured out how to batch builds for my main CBBE body preset and it works fine with all of the other outfits, but not with this one 

 

Spoiler

 

Again - sorry for bothering you with this, i know you're not Bodyslide tech support, but i'd be really grateful if you could help me out with this, since you're already know the root of the problem.

And maybe you could add a short tutorial on how to install the outfit properly for future dummies like myself ?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, paparebbe said:

since you're already know the root of the problem.

But I don't know. I'm not sure what you're seeing, all I saw was an image that looked like it was from Bodyslide.

 

The CBBE armor pieces are going to have a CBBE body in them; assuming I uploaded the right files - and I think I checked quite carefully at the time, though it was a while ago.

The body is in the NIF, so you can't get a UNP body and a CBBE bikini unless it doesn't use slot 32.

 

It looks a bit like you may have two bodies rendering, but I don't know how that could happen - you'd need some strange AA setups to make that happen.

 

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, darkfender666 said:

p.p.s says reset inst a command nor the console it recognizes _DFlow fariable

resetquest _DFlow

 

_DFlow isn't a variable. It's a quest.

 

 

  

6 hours ago, darkfender666 said:

P.S. in old versions sold quest worked perfectly fine. if i remember well in 2.03a worked i guess. 

I found the dialog problem. It's because I did some things to make paying off slavery harder, but accidentally made it impossible.

 

I had some problems understanding the problem report.

I thought the issue being raised was that slavery was triggering with insufficient deals and not going through the warning stage.

 

Is the required deals and warning stage working as intended?

[paparebbe]

Just in case if anyone will be wondering - the outfits that were handed to me by the quest were the ones for the UNP and if you'll search through the 'Add Item Menu' - there are 2 version of each outfit, the one that has this weird bug and the one that actually fits the CBBE body.

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, paparebbe said:

Just in case if anyone will be wondering - the outfits that were handed to me by the quest were the ones for the UNP and if you'll search through the 'Add Item Menu' - there are 2 version of each outfit, the one that has this weird bug and the one that actually fits the CBBE body.

I really don't know what you've done with your install, so I'm guessing ... but it sounds like you tried to install the CBBE pack specifically for this mod as a custom armor?

 

That's now how you use it. It replaces the UNP models by overwrite. You just install it over the top of the bundled ones, Bodyslide, and off you go.

If you've got two copies, that would be a little strange, unless you installed some re-based TAWoBA version I don't know about.

 

The armor and AAs are duplicated in DFC, but the file paths are "vanilla" TAWoBA, so there's no duplicates if you already have a TAWoBA install.

If you have a full CBBE setup of TAWoBA, then its files should overwrite DFC's files.

 

I think the paths are the same for CBBE and UUNP, but it was weeks ago when I made that CBBE pack, and I never had a CBBE game to test it in, so it could be all wrong.

[slvsaris]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:26 PM, Lupine00 said:

You will be overjoyed to discover that there is.

There should be something in your quest journal. If not, then there's a bug.

 

Tip: pay your follower, then follower never robs all your stuff and give you a fraction of the value.

 

Oh, and you would have sooo loved Lozeak's Dwarven Gauntlets boss loot item. Such a pity I stopped that dropping.

 

Never saw a thing.  The quest journal is not the place for this, it should be happening through dialog.  Also, I knew you were going to say something like "Well then pay your follower"  Then I will throw back that it is entirely unrealistic for the follower to just take all your stuff and still be standing there afterwards without the items.  They would have the items, and be forcing deals on you to get the items back.  That, or they would be dead by my sword for stealing.  They already have ways to get their gold, they do not need to resort to stealing.

[Lupine00]

@slvsaris if you just want to vent and don't actually want your problems solved, I'm not going to listen.

Your tone is straight-out hostile and lacks even the excuse of a failed attempt at humor.

 

 

The point being made isn't well argued.

I'm sure there are many ways the feature could improve, but that's only going to happen through an agreeable debate.

Being a bully about it just puts you straight on my block list.

 

 

If the item recovery quest isn't working, I guess it will stay broken until somebody else actually puts in the effort to provide helpful bug reports because there is no chance at all I will be interacting with you further - for a while anyway. Which in no way impairs your ability to say whatever you like - but with the added benefit that it doesn't make me feel like a human piñata. Oddly enough, I don't come here to be raged at, and I have a very simply policy for dealing with that.

 

I looked at the item removal code yesterday, and it seemed like it would be ok.

I'm not spending any more time on it without confirmation from another player with a different install that there's an actual bug.

 

 

DF has always stolen items, since its very early versions, and even in 1.X they were not simply destroyed, but were recoverable - and I have seen the feature work. I haven't used it dozens of times though. Maybe it's unreliable? Or maybe it works exactly as intended. Hard to say from one "non-report" that provided no detail.

 

It's actually exploitable, because you can clear a huge amount of debt that way, then get your items back for a pittance, assuming you're prepared to put up with losing them temporarily. I'm more troubled by that than the stealing - which only happens if you are significantly in debt, as a soft alternative to something else - like enslavement.

 

Without item removal, endless mode really has very little it can do to seriously punish the player for accumulating endless debt.

There's the "getting sold" feature, but that partially defeats the point of endless mode and is intended more as a deterrent than a practical punishment.

It really only exists because it was easier to add than fixing the stability issues in the enslaved mode - issues I'd like to hope are resolved now.

[Lupine00]

Here is a preview of 2.14.0

This is not intended for general play.

It's not all of what will ultimately be in 2.14.0 release. (See planned work in the roadmap on my blog page).

 

If you're @HexBolt8 or really want to get more log spam about your deals - which I think will confirm my theories about people having problems with the deals they get - then this is for you.

 

What's new:

Spoiler

• Test version has a LOT of log spam about deals and rules.
• Fixes license revokes not revoking any licenses.
• Fixes the dialog bug that meant you couldn't buy out of slavery.
• Adds first-pass support for external slavery via Submissive Lola.
  • The handling of some external slavery events (not from SLTR) may be problematic, so that might be a point to focus on.
  • Also didn't test walk away or cancel out during the dialogs, but will tomorrow.

 

 

 

[Herowynne]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Here is a preview of 2.14.0

This is not intended for general play.

 

If you're @HexBolt8 or really want to get more log spam about your deals - which I think will confirm my theories about people having problems with the deals they get - then this is for you.

Does this version require a new game? Or will it work okay to upgrade from a game with DFC 2.13.5 ?