Devious Followers - Continued

[slvsaris]

The feature where the follower taps you on the shoulder as you speak to an NPC needs a bit of work I think.  It seems to fire too often.  I believe it should only fire once per NPC in a given amount of time.  I have had it fire off several times during a conversation with a single NPC.  Makes it hard to get through the dialog sometimes.

 

Perhaps you are already working on it, or planning to work on it.

[Texmarker]

Is the dialogue replacer "Your follower interrupts and convinces them to fuck her slave" from this mod? If yes, how can i disable this. It is happening 8/10 times i try to speak to someone. The other mods i use are SLS and SLTR. The SLTR author said its not their mod.

[Lupine00]

56 minutes ago, Texmarker said:

Is the dialogue replacer "Your follower interrupts and convinces them to fuck her slave" from this mod? If yes, how can i disable this. It is happening 8/10 times i try to speak to someone.

1) Stop escaping out of this dialog or otherwise forcing it to terminate quickly. That is probably why it keeps coming up over and over for you.

If you let it play properly, it will likely only show up three times.

 

2) To disable it, you need to set the SLUT DEAL max stage to 0 in the classic deals menu.

You cannot change that if you already have the slut deal, so you would need to pay it off first.

 

 

While this isn't working as I want it to, I think this deal is still easier than it has ever been in the past.

 

This deal is intended to somewhat annoying - otherwise it's just free money for you.

Chances are you agreed to it. Maybe the gameplay trick is you don't agree to this deal?

If you were forced into it, that is avoidable too.

Take deals before they are forced on you and you lose the ability to refuse them.

Or pay your follower and avoid deals entirely you deadbeat  

 

While I'm giving out tips, maybe think twice about taking a gag deal of any kind...

[Texmarker]

26 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

1) Stop escaping out of this dialog or otherwise forcing it to terminate quickly. That is probably why it keeps coming up over and over for you.

If you let it play properly, it will likely only show up three times.

 

2) To disable it, you need to set the SLUT DEAL max stage to 0 in the classic deals menu.

You cannot change that if you already have the slut deal, so you would need to pay it off first.

 

 

While this isn't working as I want it to, I think this deal is still easier than it has ever been in the past.

 

This deal is intended to somewhat annoying - otherwise it's just free money for you.

Chances are you agreed to it. Maybe the gameplay trick is you don't agree to this deal?

If you were forced into it, that is avoidable too.

Take deals before they are forced on you and you lose the ability to refuse them.

Or pay your follower and avoid deals entirely you deadbeat  

 

While I'm giving out tips, maybe think twice about taking a gag deal of any kind...

 

Thanks for replying.

 

I am sure i ran through it completely more than 3 times when trying to buy spell tomes in dragonsreach.

I also have not taken any deals yet. So this deal is working without taking it?

 

Ill play on and see.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Texmarker said:

I also have not taken any deals yet. So this deal is working without taking it?

This changes a few things.

It should never happen without the deal.

It is dialog conditioned off the deal stages, and those conditions haven't been changed at all in a long time; I believe they all exist.

And if there was a gap, we'd all be seeing this all the time - or at least, often.

 

I'd guess your game is just broken, but that's only half an answer.

 

Please provide more information.

In the console...

getstage _DFlow

show _DWill

getstage _DFlowDealH

 

What do you see?

 

Can you pay off your follower and dismiss?

Make sure you do it just inside a city gate.

Are you able to get the dialog that lets you "[Clear debt] follower will be dismissible..." ?

 

Do you have a log file where this is happening?

If so, can you provide the log, and the time at which you were forced to repeatedly say it?

[Texmarker]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Please provide more information.

In the console...

getstage _DFlow

show _DWill

getstage _DFlowDealH

 

What do you see?

 

Can you pay off your follower and dismiss?

Make sure you do it just inside a city gate.

Are you able to get the dialog that lets you "[Clear debt] follower will be dismissible..." ?

 

Do you have a log file where this is happening?

If so, can you provide the log, and the time at which you were forced to repeatedly say it?

getstage _DFlow => 10

show _DWill => 5

getstage _DFlowDealH => 0

 

Can you pay off your follower and dismiss? => I activated gold control mode previous to this happening. Even if i add a ludicrous amount of gold per console, the follower says he will not stop controlling this day, he'll let me know.

 

Here is a log, there are two selxlab scenes in it, both caused by this issue. Admittedly, this time around i had to speak and cancel 4-5 times until the event happened. But it happened way more often earlier, otherwise i would not have mentioned it. The current deal amount as per MCM is 0 at this point.

 

I forgot to mention i am on the latest official sse conversion.

 

Papyrus.0.log

[Bonding1005]

Had this happen as well, with DCL and Chloe. No deals taken. We both were tied up quite often and she got angry about that. That´s when this dialogue popped up. No action followed though. IIRC I had even tried to mark her as non devious, but for some reason DF wouldn't listen...

Later I had ditched her, even reset the mod, but when I recruited Uthgerd she was angry right away.

 

[blackoperations]

6 hours ago, slvsaris said:

The feature where the follower taps you on the shoulder as you speak to an NPC needs a bit of work I think.  It seems to fire too often.  I believe it should only fire once per NPC in a given amount of time.  I have had it fire off several times during a conversation with a single NPC.  Makes it hard to get through the dialog sometimes.

 

Perhaps you are already working on it, or planning to work on it.

I thought it was a bug at first, it isn't.  It's takes three times.  The fourth is a normal conversation.  It gets very interesting at willpower falls.

[blackoperations]

Perhaps I missed it, but is there a list of all the deals with their stages?  I can't seem to find one, which makes setting limits on deals in the MCM difficult.  

[user9120975435]

19 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Was your location the streets area of a gated city?

 

e.g. Just inside the gate of any city should be a good place to try.

 

It was outside, halfway between Swindler's Rest (?) and Rorikstead. Will try next time, thanks!

 

Btw., could it be possible that Troubles of Heroine followers are just bugged? Cause I tested Scratcher (that is recruited as a follower instead of a dog) and Falsk Venn (though my willpower was max at 5 when I tried with Scratcher - that is one horny mofo). Haven't tested any vanilla character yet, my girl still has to recuperate from the first Bard's College dungeon crawling before I try to recruit someone new. xD

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Texmarker said:

official sse conversion

"Official"??? I don't even know whose version that would be.

 

You're on SSE?!

That's not just a detail.

 

You're running a conversion I didn't make, have never tested, and cannot debug.

Might not be relevant to this problem. Or might be the problem.

As people are so evasive about admitting they're on SE, I don't know for sure whether this is an SE issue.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, user9120975435 said:

Btw., could it be possible that Troubles of Heroine followers are just bugged?

It's certainly possible.

 

Is the complaint that the dog can become a DF?

It's ToH, so it almost certainly isn't really a dog, and is, as you suspect, configured as a regular follower.

But it's ToH, so having it demand money from you makes as much sense as anything. Just roll with it!

 

If you don't want them as a DF you can just set them ignored in the MCM.

This applies to any follower you don't want to be devious, not just fake animals.

If you're just about to recruit somebody or something, stop and think "do I want this character as my DF?"

If the answer isn't "definitely yes", it's time to go in the MCM and set them ignored. It's completely reversible if you change your mind.

If you cannot set them ignored in the MCM, then they won't become a DF anyway. (If you find an exception to this rule, let me know).

 

For ToH, in general, I'd suggest making someone like the "Real Dragonborn" your DF, and that will make some sort of sense dialog wise (not perfect, but ok) and stop any other nutty follower getting picked up as a DF.

 

Bruiser is a logical DF from a gameplay perspective, but DFC's dialog doesn't fit him well - much too passive and encouraging.

[Tron91]

Bug Report:

 

The dialogue option for asking DD items from the DF is adding wrong DD items. When you ask for "Chastity Aids" --> "Bra", Belts are being given to the PC.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Tron91 said:

The dialogue option for asking DD items from the DF is adding wrong DD items. When you ask for "Chastity Aids" --> "Bra", Belts are being given to the PC.

Thanks. If you notice any other mistakes there please post those too, good to know.

[SacredDatura]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

"Official"??? I don't even know whose version that would be.

 

You're on SSE?!

That's not just a detail.

 

You're running a conversion I didn't make, have never tested, and cannot debug.

Might not be relevant to this problem. Or might be the problem.

As people are so evasive about admitting they're on SE, I don't know for sure whether this is an SE issue.

 

It's a little uncharitable to assume intentional obfuscation. I think most people just assume it's not a problem. As far as I can tell the nomkaz conversion is just a straight conversion without any extra sauce, and scripts are one of the things that carry over fine without conversion between LE and SE anyway.

[Texmarker]

1 hour ago, Buridan said:

 

It's a little uncharitable to assume intentional obfuscation. I think most people just assume it's not a problem. As far as I can tell the nomkaz conversion is just a straight conversion without any extra sauce, and scripts are one of the things that carry over fine without conversion between LE and SE anyway.

You are right. I didnt think it was an issue.

 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

"Official"??? I don't even know whose version that would be.

 

You're on SSE?!

That's not just a detail.

 

You're running a conversion I didn't make, have never tested, and cannot debug.

Might not be relevant to this problem. Or might be the problem.

As people are so evasive about admitting they're on SE, I don't know for sure whether this is an SE issue.

I was spending my valuable time to give you feedback about your mod. If that is an issue for you, i will stop. Quite honestly, your tone and the assumption of me being evasive is unwarranted. I get that it can be stressfull to be the public facing side of a project, but for your own sanity, dont assume malice where being uninformed can be the explanation.

[Sgt. Marge]

On 3/17/2021 at 10:30 PM, Lupine00 said:

If you want a follower to be a steward, set them to be ignored by DF.

 

1) Dismiss "devious" follower.

2) Target follower in game (get crosshair over them).

2) Go in Debug MCM.

3) Set targeted follower to be ignored by DF with the button.

4) Recruit the NPC as a follower again.

They are now a regular, non-devious follower, and will remain so.

 

Alternatively, you can make all followers non-devious by default. A good time to do this is while you're in the LAL start room.

Simply go in the MCM, Debug Menu and click the button to scan and ignore all followers.

Wait for it to finish. The time this takes depends on how many followers you installed.

 

Once it's done, you can use the MCM Debug menu to explicitly make only the followers you want devious.

Again, you should do it before you hire them, you can't change it while they are hired.

 

Thanks for the advice, I got it worked out.  I also noticed that the hentai creatures modded creatures want to be devious followers if I don't already have one at the time I summon them, so I'll have to try going into the MCM and setting them to not be.  Cheers!

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Texmarker said:

Quite honestly, your tone and the assumption of me being evasive is unwarranted

No. It isn't.

Because it's not about YOU personally.

You also are assuming malice ... directed at you ... which it isn't.

 

 

It's about a consistent pattern of SE users bringing problems I cannot replicate and making me go through twenty fault finding steps before they finally mention they're on SE.

 

It's simple; not malice: the SE mod is not my mod.

I cannot support it beyond generic questions like "how do I set up Chaos mode" or something.

I'm not hating on SE. One day there will likely be an SE version from me.

It's quite simply that I cannot debug or diagnose issues in SE.

I cannot even replicate them and prove they are not a one off because "your game is broken".

 

 

This information, and the request to specify that you are on SE can be found on the front page of this mod.

You read the front page and the section on "known bugs and issues" before reporting a bug, right?

 

 

Raise any issues in SE with the SE converter. They can debug the SE version. They can test for reproduction in SE.

If they don't want to do that, and just want to pump out SE versions like a sausage factory with no regard for whether they work well, possibly you need to find a better SE converter, or do it yourself.

 

I'm basically being pushed into a situation where the only response I can make to any issue is "Are you on SE?"

Because otherwise I'm chasing snarks.

 

There are three pieces of information that matter the most in any report, other than the bug itself.

1) PLATFORM

2) MOD MANAGER

3) STEPS TO REPRODUCE

 

Some people will post an issue and their bug report is like a cryptic crossword puzzle.

It takes three rounds of questioning to find out what they even think is wrong.

I guess it's my mistake trying to help those people. There are others on this forum. They can answer those puzzles.

 

And some post a complaint without even considering if the behavior is intended, and there is a big difference between working as intended but you don't like it, compared to not working as intended.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Marg597 said:

hentai creatures modded creatures want to be devious followers

I'd like to fix this, but it would help if somebody knew if there is simple way to detect a Hentai Creature without having to pull information out of HC itself.

If the check requires any dependency on HC, it can't be performed, as there are dialog and quest alias fill conditions involved.

 

I can't use race, because followers are all over the place on that.

 

DF will accept anyone with the PotentialFollower faction.

However, if HC's are consistently in some other vanilla faction such as predator, or prey, then that might work.

[slvsaris]

9 hours ago, Texmarker said:

You are right. I didnt think it was an issue.

 

I was spending my valuable time to give you feedback about your mod. If that is an issue for you, i will stop. Quite honestly, your tone and the assumption of me being evasive is unwarranted. I get that it can be stressfull to be the public facing side of a project, but for your own sanity, dont assume malice where being uninformed can be the explanation.

Mod authors need as much information as possible when trying to troubleshoot issues.  The author should not have to ask for basic information from a user in order to help them solve an issue.  Not all issues are problems with the mod.  Platform is a BIG piece of basic information.  The mere fact that a mod has to be converted (and yes, mods do have to be converted, even if people think they work fine without conversion) to work on SE should highlight that it is relevant to include when reporting issues.  You have to understand they are getting these things from all directions, and probably in a few different mods, so please cut them a bit of slack.

[user9120975435]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:19 PM, Lupine00 said:

It's certainly possible.

 

snipped

 

Thanks for reply. ?

[Lupine00]

14 hours ago, slvsaris said:

Mod authors need as much information as possible when trying to troubleshoot issues.

If you look back at the response I made that triggered the offended user, it was apparent that I wasn't really referring to him at all.

He mentioned SE in the second post, which is ... by most standards ... pretty good going and a big improvement over never, even if not completely ideal.

 

I said that I couldn't tell if his issue was SE specific, because other people who'd reported an issue never mentioned platform at all, and as I've repeatedly seen issues reported, where platform was not mentioned, then turned out to be SE, with SE specific issues...

 

That means those issues could have been from SE users.

I don't know, because they never told me. Maybe those issues afflict all platforms? Maybe SE only? Maybe LE only?

 

I just don't know.

 

So, even for issues that aren't SE specific, it's really helpful to know right up front they're on SE, so I can then develop an understanding of what issues are SE specific and what is happening to everyone.

 

 

The real problem with bug-fixing a mod like this, is that a very few people report an issue at all.

Does that mean only a few people have one?

 

I would guess for every report there are ten users who didn't report.

But it could be a hundred...

But in some cases, for a reported bug, maybe there are no other users...

 

I don't know. No way to know. Never will know.

All I can see is the frequency on the forum.

 

Given the number of bug reports I get now - which is actually pretty low - either DFC is working very reliably for the majority of people, or they simply blame the problems on another mod  

 

 

I did set out to make a github for this, and then I could track reported issues there and people could check.

But I noticed other mods that do that, plenty of people don't know about or check the github, so it's relatively useless.

And if you aren't making it the primary source of truth, it's just stale rubbish.

So, for me, github would add some friction, with the only benefit being another place to put backups.

[keitsoru]

On 3/18/2021 at 10:19 AM, Lupine00 said:

This changes a few things.

It should never happen without the deal.

It is dialog conditioned off the deal stages, and those conditions haven't been changed at all in a long time; I believe they all exist.

And if there was a gap, we'd all be seeing this all the time - or at least, often.

 

I'd guess your game is just broken, but that's only half an answer.

 

Please provide more information.

In the console...

getstage _DFlow

show _DWill

getstage _DFlowDealH

 

What do you see?

 

Can you pay off your follower and dismiss?

Make sure you do it just inside a city gate.

Are you able to get the dialog that lets you "[Clear debt] follower will be dismissible..." ?

 

Do you have a log file where this is happening?

If so, can you provide the log, and the time at which you were forced to repeatedly say it?

Just want to chime in here, before the update, I was having the same issue. I had never accepted the Slut deal, but as soon as my character had a collar on, it was every dialogue. I haven't tested a fresh save since the update, so I'm unsure if it was a problem with the mod after that, a problem with my save, or both.

[Lupine00]

20 minutes ago, keitsoru said:

as soon as my character had a collar on

That's also interesting.

There are no collar related checks on the slut deal infos, but there are heavy bondage related ones.

 

It feels a bit like some dialog conditions are scrambled up in your game, so you're getting conditions from some other info.

 

I'll double check the slavery variants, just to make sure there are no gaps there, and you aren't somehow getting that path.

[Lupine00]

Here is a preview of 2.13.5:

 

 

 

If you were having Slut Deal issues, test it with both:

• updated game
• new game

 

See if it fixes your problems?

I tried it in an existing game that had some small issues, and they were fixed, and it seemed to update the dialogs OK.

 

This has a rough version of the SLS license handling.

 

It contains the following changes:

Spoiler

• Added support for management of SLS licenses with license purchase by follower.
• Fixed bra purchase providing a belt instead.
• Fixed missing simple slavery odds in _DFlow causing SSO to not get triggered.
• Fixed missing tats count in _DFlow causing tats to not get applied on enslavement.
• Fixed missing tooltips/hover-items for weird potion menu items.
• Fixed apparent zero defaults for weird potion min-max days settings.
• Fixed broken mechanic for punishing non-payment for weird potion drinks.
• Added willpower and collar requirements to forced version of weird potion.
• Taking weird potion now also clears (almost all) debt as well as deals.
• Dialog additions and improvements for weird potion requests.
• Fixed a missing delay from one path in Slut deal hand on shoulder.
• Fixed a missing deal condition on "follower offers her slave to fuck dialog"
• Changed mechanism for random determination of whether you get a hand on shoulder or offered as slave to fuck. Might work in SE, who knows? It seemed to fail in some LE games too, but not all - hopefully better now.
• Added many, many new slut deal lines and rewrote almost all of them to not be hesitatant speech.
• The way slut deal texts are determined is more complex, and can mean you could go a long time without seeing anything like all of them.

Use with caution. I wouldn't spend too long playing it, as it might get updates if any problems emerge.

There are some missing features yet to be added, and some little interoperation issues with the licenses that still need sorting out.

For example, you may be bought disabled licenses, though I try to detect that, the detection isn't working.

Also will be bought a clothes license even if you have a wear no clothes in town deal, which is probably not how it should work.