Bad End: Purgatory

[Arcturus7777]

8 hours ago, WandererZero said:

I believe you could be referring to a couple possible Skyrim mods: 

1. Dangerous Nights 2. 
2. Sexlab Adventures. 

They're nice because you can set some really nice granular controls over how and when assaults happen to you whilst you sleep or camp. Going to sleep becomes more of a risk when you're outside the safety of a town, walled city, etc. 

 

Either way, yes...those are quality mods...although, I think Sexlab Adventures offers more variety/functionality in this regard. I've been looking at a number of mods on the skyrim side of things to help Ego and I improve this and a couple other projects we have in mind. Needless to say, while Violate, SEU and even Purgatory are great mods....nothing on the Fallout side of things comes close to some of the innovation on the Skyrim side of things.

 

I know, at least for me...i'd like to change that. It's been bothering me for awhile now, it's why I've been kind of quiet on the forums as of late. I'm playing, testing, making notes and refining ideas. But there are a number of issues at play when it comes to creating better quality for 4, not all of them good.

 

The thing I'm discovering over on the Skyrim side, is that you have a number of really innovative small mods that do a thing, and it will typically do that thing or couple things well. If it needs other functionality, it tends to require a mod that does that thing that it needs, and does it well and then uses that mod to enhance itself. The best lewd mods on the Skyrim side aren't the monolithic beasts you sometimes find on the Fallout side (3, NV, & 4)....they tend to be smaller, do a small job, and those mods work together to do larger jobs. 

 

This is really the direction to go, if we can...and Ego and I have spoken at length about doing stuff like that, but we both get busy, have lives, etc...not to mention there are some roadblocks to some of the things we want to do. I probably have 20 or 25 different stories or concepts jotted down in various formats and lengths. (I take a lot of notes, and jot down ideas a lot) ... it's not that they can't be done, it's that some of them would require a lot of work on the invisible bits you guys never see...the backend, infrastructure, framework stuff, etc. Believe it or not, this is kind of how Purgatory started out: as an idea I got from testing/playing one mod...and thinking...God, this could have so much more depth. I put together a test cell and then shipped it off to Ego, who wired it up for the beatings you all know and love. 

 

We hope to add more to it, it's in the plan, but...again, roadblocks in terms of implementation and design. 

 

Right now though, I'm not really sure what's next here. Ego and I have mostly completed Seedy Stories, and with it's first scenario....it's pretty neat. It's less event driven...that's for sure. After seeing Amorous Adventures, I have a number of ideas on how to proceed there. But, the fact of the matter is...the Fallout 4 ecosystem for lewd mods is highly fragmented at the moment, and that creates a number of challenges. So, I am left with telling you folks to stay tuned. 

 

(Sorry for the ramble here, but I felt it was kind of a duty to fill you in on what and where things are going with the mod, while answering a question...) 

 

 

 

 

I can program in several computer languages, none of which help me here.  LOL  Anyway what you seem to be referring to is modular programming,  Do little parts, that can be used by other little parts.  And it is easy peasy to find problems, cause it only does one thing, and is a small amount of code.

 

I was referring to dangerous nights 2, which is currently too old to use in skyrim.

 

But a small little mod, could call on the purgatory mod,  or raider pet mod(if it was separate might be easier), or just a random sex act, if you sleep outside of a settlement, possible with chance if in wilderness after dark.

 

Well let me give you one more idea then, I had this one for skyrim, but could work here.  Bad guards, bad guards, what ya gonna do, what ya gonna do when they come for you.  LOL

[WandererZero]

7 hours ago, Arcturus7777 said:

I was referring to dangerous nights 2, which is currently too old to use in skyrim.

Hardly. I was using Dangerous Nights 2 up until recently. There's a conversion for SSE, and even if you don't use that....it's fairly easy to pass it through CAO. 

 

 

[Arcturus7777]

4 hours ago, WandererZero said:

Hardly. I was using Dangerous Nights 2 up until recently. There's a conversion for SSE, and even if you don't use that....it's fairly easy to pass it through CAO. 

 

 

what is CAO?

[WandererZero]

35 minutes ago, Arcturus7777 said:

what is CAO?

Cathedral Assets Optimizer. 

[tkh1600]

can I make request?

[WandererZero]

9 hours ago, tkh1600 said:

can I make request?

Anyone is free to make requests. 

 

Just remember, it may or may not be used. 

[Upsa]

Between a handful of possible mods, I'm not sure which one is actually the cause of this error I see. But I figured I'd ask here, for starters.

 

When enslaved in purgatory, my character turns invisible. Also 3pp camera isn't working right. And using tfc, while working, doesn't make the character visible.

 

Any idea what might be the cause?

 

[EgoBallistic]

52 minutes ago, Upsa said:

Between a handful of possible mods, I'm not sure which one is actually the cause of this error I see. But I figured I'd ask here, for starters.

 

When enslaved in purgatory, my character turns invisible. Also 3pp camera isn't working right. And using tfc, while working, doesn't make the character visible.

 

Any idea what might be the cause?

Whatever is causing that, this mod isn't it.  Purgatory doesn't force the camera into third-person mode or manipulate the camera in any way.

 

One thing to consider: if you can't see yourself when you run the TFC command, you will be invisible when you move the freecam around.  So you need to use the mousewheel to scroll the camera out so that you can see yourself, and then launch TFC.

[tkh1600]

can you add % which execution appear more?

 

for example

I want only Gallows and other set to 0%

[Arcturus7777]

Just to help,  I CTD on exit of purgetory, when I push the menu button to open the save/load ect menu

 

 

[EgoBallistic]

58 minutes ago, Arcturus7777 said:

Just to help,  I CTD on exit of purgetory, when I push the menu button to open the save/load ect menu

Yes, you mentioned this before.  It is not caused by this mod.

 

The game seems to crash a lot when the Esc menu is opened if a save is loaded while the game is running.  It almost always happens if a game is loaded immediately after dying.  The best way to avoid this is to always quit to the main menu before loading a save.

[Arcturus7777]

1 hour ago, EgoBallistic said:

Yes, you mentioned this before.  It is not caused by this mod.

 

The game seems to crash a lot when the Esc menu is opened if a save is loaded while the game is running.  It almost always happens if a game is loaded immediately after dying.  The best way to avoid this is to always quit to the main menu before loading a save.

Can not quit to main menu, I CTD on pushing the button, or open the menu with save quit load ect.  I use a controller, on PC keyboard that would be the escape button I think.  Hit Escape, CTD

 

anyway, NP, still love the MOD.  Can do f5 quick save, CTD, then reload game.

[EgoBallistic]

4 hours ago, Arcturus7777 said:

anyway, NP, still love the MOD.  Can do f5 quick save, CTD, then reload game.

OK.  Like I said, I haven't been able to reproduce this with this mod, and crashing on the Esc menu can be caused even on a completely vanilla save.  In my testing I looped through over a dozen consecutive violate/bad end/purgatory/teleport to Sanctuary cycles and never ran across this.  You might try waiting a little while before trying to open that menu, in case it is caused by settlement scripts or large numbers of objects loading in Sanctuary.

[EgoBallistic]

21 hours ago, Arcturus7777 said:

anyway, NP, still love the MOD.  Can do f5 quick save, CTD, then reload game.

I was finally able to reproduce this and figure out what the problem actually is.   The crash happens in one of the crosshairs routines provided by the LLFP library.  Real Handcuffs calls that routine when you open the Pause menu, and if the conditions are right the game will CTD. 

 

The crash will happen if the crosshairs function is called immediately after being teleported by a script, or immediately after reloading when you are killed, and sometimes when you reload a save without first going to the main menu.

 

The way to guarantee it doesn't happen is to walk up to an NPC and get the "Talk" prompt before opening the Pause menu.  You don't have to interact with them or anything, just seeing the "Talk" prompt is enough.  If you aren't running Real Handcuffs then this is not a problem.  It's not really Real Handcuffs' fault either, that mod just happens to call the routine that causes the problem.

 

I am looking at the LLFP code to see about fixing it for real, but at least now I know what the issue is and that there is a workaround.

[isanchez]

when will an update come?

[EgoBallistic]

16 minutes ago, isanchez said:

when will an update come?

When it is ready.

[isanchez]

2 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

When it is ready.

I'm aware ?
When can we expect it?

[Arcturus7777]

4 hours ago, EgoBallistic said:

I was finally able to reproduce this and figure out what the problem actually is.   The crash happens in one of the crosshairs routines provided by the LLFP library.  Real Handcuffs calls that routine when you open the Pause menu, and if the conditions are right the game will CTD. 

 

The crash will happen if the crosshairs function is called immediately after being teleported by a script, or immediately after reloading when you are killed, and sometimes when you reload a save without first going to the main menu.

 

The way to guarantee it doesn't happen is to walk up to an NPC and get the "Talk" prompt before opening the Pause menu.  You don't have to interact with them or anything, just seeing the "Talk" prompt is enough.  If you aren't running Real Handcuffs then this is not a problem.  It's not really Real Handcuffs' fault either, that mod just happens to call the routine that causes the problem.

 

I am looking at the LLFP code to see about fixing it for real, but at least now I know what the issue is and that there is a workaround.

Wow, great job!!

[EgoBallistic]

OK, I verified the bug is in the LLFP crosshairs routine, developed a fix, and submitted it to Jaam for inclusion in the next LLFP release.  I also sent a message to Kharos suggesting a small change to the Real Handcuffs code that will prevent triggering the bug with the current version of the LLFP.

 

I have to say, as bug-hunting exercises go, this one had its share of twists and turns.  It started out looking like a game engine bug, briefly looked like a MCM problem, and wound up being buried in a F4SE dll.  Hey at least I got to put my C++ to good use

[Arcturus7777]

Great job bug hunting!  The fix in the new LLFP works for me.

[buzzyxoom]

On 8/10/2019 at 10:22 AM, WandererZero said:

Anyone is free to make requests. 

 

Just remember, it may or may not be used. 

I don't have FO4 or the mod installed at the moment so this may already exist...

 

Would it be possible for Bad Ends to include your companion (assuming appropriate companion type)? Presumably either happening sequentially, or overlapping with the companion first, so that by the time the PC dies the whole process is complete. And then the companion spawns alongside you in Purgatory.

 

I realize this would require changes to both mods.

 

[WandererZero]

54 minutes ago, buzzyxoom said:

Would it be possible for Bad Ends to include your companion (assuming appropriate companion type)? Presumably either happening sequentially, or overlapping with the companion first, so that by the time the PC dies the whole process is complete. And then the companion spawns alongside you in Purgatory.

Well, part of the issue here is: all companions are essential. They don't die. Ever. (Unless you remove their essential flag...funny thing is, they all have death VO lines) Anyway, getting back to your question: 

 

As companions don't die, it really does not make a lot of sense for them to join you in this instance. I mean, we'll take it under advisement, and perhaps do something like this, but it won't be an immediate thing. Dealing with companions in mods for F4 can be....hilariously and tragically stupid. 

[buzzyxoom]

10 minutes ago, WandererZero said:

Well, part of the issue here is: all companions are essential. They don't die. Ever. (Unless you remove their essential flag...funny thing is, they all have death VO lines) Anyway, getting back to your question:

 

I knew they are all essential, and assumed that a certain level of fakery would be involved for their Bad Ends.

 

I assumed that there is fakery for the PC's Bad End in order to not cause the game to reload a save. But I don't know what the insides of the system look like...

 

[EgoBallistic]

2 hours ago, buzzyxoom said:

Would it be possible for Bad Ends to include your companion (assuming appropriate companion type)? Presumably either happening sequentially, or overlapping with the companion first, so that by the time the PC dies the whole process is complete. And then the companion spawns alongside you in Purgatory.

This would be possible but it's not something we are looking to do right away.  The Bad End scenes in Violate, and the punishment mechanism in Purgatory, use a lot of scripting to place items, move actors around, and synchronize the actors; it's a lot more complicated than the sex animations in Violate.  Doing these things to an unknown number of actors, rather than just to the player, adds a ton of complexity which means a greater likelihood of bugs or of things looking silly.  WZ said it best: Dealing with companions in mods for F4 can be....hilariously and tragically stupid.

 

The main things we are looking to do with Purgatory at the moment is to add more types of punishments and to enable it to act on any type of death instead of just dying from Bad Ends.  After that we will revisit the idea of involving companions.

[WandererZero]

1 hour ago, buzzyxoom said:

But I don't know what the insides of the system look like...

When it comes to companion handling, with a mod like this....the system is an Eldritch horror. With blood spatter, and entrails strewn everywhere. There are tentacles and teeth. So, I'd have to agree with my colleague: 

 

41 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

The main things we are looking to do with Purgatory at the moment is to add more types of punishments and to enable it to act on any type of death instead of just dying from Bad Ends.  After that we will revisit the idea of involving companions.

...and leave it at that.