prison SewerRats - A Crime & Punishment Overhaul

[SewerRats]

14 hours ago, Nymra said:

I had very high hopes for this mod after the initial description, but I had to load an old save now 3 times in a row... 
The AI script seems to break down regularly and especially the journals & Pop up windows are a mess somehow...

A list of my findings:

 

- feet shackels are equipped when in the cage and not when on the ground
- initial dialogue starts like half a dozen times (the jailer mistress starts it over and over again, even when the PC is out of the cage). 
- Transition from initial room to prison is too aprupt (needs a doorway or a blackscreen).

- Girls from the cell spawn either not at all or outside of the cell. But from the dialogue I guess they are supposed to be inside the cell before first time entering it.

- The beating scene in the cell... I dont get it. What is supposed to happen here? One time it ends with a dialogue, the other time I die. Suggestion: integrate the brawl system for the prison fights?

- the "15 minutes to body cavity search" window appears sometimes several times in a row, reducing the prison sentence accordingly (3 times in 3 seconds, 3 days off the sentence).
- NPCs are easy to beat in the fight. I use a lot of combat mods and i m level 60 now, but well, NPCs are easy to defeat.

- when AM Cavity Search the forced inventory window is annoying... I would prefer a hotkey for accessing body cavities.
- the AM cavity search kinda messed up the other girls from the cell. they stood everywhere but not next to the player
- there should be a dialogue or a guide to give hints about what and where to work. 

- inspection starts fast, but the jailer never reaches the player. Before the jailer can reach the player, the horn blows and it says "AM body cavity search", then AM inspection again, and then it loops AM cavity, AM inspection, without any NPC moving anywhere...

- registration of DA quest is not really working it seems. The MCM option does nothing and DA does not show the quest. 

 

This is as far as I got... will give it 1-2 more tries, but it is very discouraging at the moment to be honest
Did you also do the raven beak overhaul? I remember some of the ideas from there.

Suggestions:
- as mentioned above: would be nice if there would be an all male prison version. females are better for "realism" but lets be honest, nobody is there for realism
- the sewers are overly disgusting. would be nice to have a patch to tone that down a bit
- replay value of the mod is low. especially the "story" part with the other girls and all the lenghty processing will prevent me from replacing POP with Sewer Rats
POP is just more versatile and even when it lacks content in the end, it at least has a lot of locations and can be linked to a normal game due to alot of MCM options (24-48 hours in a prison is already very long for a single player action game). 

- why not make this his own thing apart from the crime system? to make it compatible with prison overhaul I mean. Like beeing sold to the sewer guild via Simple Slavery or something. 

 

 

This is a beta, and an early one at that. In no way is this going to replace a mod which has been in development for years at this point, and by multiple developers. Stability is the main priority in the upcoming release, and i'm delaying it until there are many less issues. Previous releases have added features at a breakneck pace while also bringing some bugs. This is all a part of a development cycle and I highly recommend using a clean save and treating it as a beta. 

 

That said, you seem to be having many more issues then the average user. Can you provide a list of enabled mods and papyrus logs?

 

As for your concerns:

Shackles: Could not reproduce. They are automatically re-enabled if they are taken off when I attempt to reproduce.

Dialogue: This will be addressed, but with the dialogue in this mod, you really shouldn't speed thru it or try to tab out. Let it finish and it will set the variables etc it needs to set to move onto the next part. Again, it will be addressed in the future.

Spawning: They are supposed to be inside the cell. I could not reproduce this but can look into it since there's a line of code that puts them inside and that obviously did not fire.

Fight scene: Read the known bugs, this is not implemented yet. You're supposed to just submit to Mia until the rest of the story is implemented.

Bed/Cavity search prompt: You clicked the bed multiple times, I'd assume. I can add a script to prevent this.

NPCs: Easily addressed, can have the stats change based on your level. This wasn't enabled on them for some reason.

AM Search: Can you elaborate? They may get stuck but always teleported to the player in my testing.

Work tutorial: Can add this.

Inspection: Could not reproduce this one either. Something isn't being set properly, which could be found in pap logs.

DA: You have to manually register into DA (in DA MCM, manually register quests). MCM option only changes the behavior of the DA plugin.

 

I did not develop the RBP overhaul, but I took my inspiration from a few other prison mods. I felt like they needed to be more controlled/regimented as would be a real prison and developed this based on that concept. 

 

Suggestions:

1) I'm not implementing this since the dialogue and content is very female-centered - even things like the strip animations - (and I have no interest in it personally), but anyone who wants to make an unofficial patch absolutely may do so.

2) There's going to be other prisons in future releases that aren't nasty like a sewer. See the "Dawnstar Reformatory" teasers above. Sewers, IRL, are quite disgusting places and i'm actually adding rats and such in the upcoming version... not removing the disgusting things. If you read the full scope of the mod, the Sewers are going to be the place for the "worst" criminals, other (cleaner) prisons are for the rest. 

3)  That's a fact of it being early in development. Eventually the other prisons will integrate together, there will be smuggling quests between them, etc.

4) It will fully override POP in the end, once there are multiple prisons and it is stable. I'm also adding additional crimes (prostitution, drug use etc is a crime in the current release), so how would I implement that without using the crime dialogues... which would make this incompatible with POP anyway? But yes, i'll definitely be adding MCM stuff for adjusting the sentences in the future. That's all planned.

 

[Stuker]

I wanted to give this one a second try. Fresh savegame. Deleted every prison mod I ever had in use to minimize mod conflicts. I even optimized my skyrim.ini to make sure I have no issues with script lags. Everything was going fine until the door to the cell was closed behind me. In the same moment all 3 inmates disappeared. One (not Mia) was visible again after sleeping. I have tried a couple of times but the result is always the same...

 

Guess I have to switch back to POP although I don't like the fact that I barely have to do anything for hours of real time. But sadly it's still the only working prison mod that doesn't bug out beyond playability. I hope you manage to get rid of this issues one day. I still have high hopes for your mod and looking forward to your Dawnstar Reformatory. A prison mod where the player isn't just damned to watch an AI-cutscene movie is what a LL-Skyrim needs urgently.

[SewerRats]

46 minutes ago, Stuker said:

I wanted to give this one a second try. Fresh savegame. Deleted every prison mod I ever had in use to minimize mod conflicts. I even optimized my skyrim.ini to make sure I have no issues with script lags. Everything was going fine until the door to the cell was closed behind me. In the same moment all 3 inmates disappeared. One (not Mia) was visible again after sleeping. I have tried a couple of times but the result is always the same...

 

Guess I have to switch back to POP although I don't like the fact that I barely have to do anything for hours of real time. But sadly it's still the only working prison mod that doesn't bug out beyond playability. I hope you manage to get rid of this issues one day. I still have high hopes for your mod and looking forward to your Dawnstar Reformatory. A prison mod where the player isn't just damned to watch an AI-cutscene movie is what a LL-Skyrim needs urgently.

Good news, i've been digging around in the scripts, trying to find some of these bugs that I cannot reproduce. Something in the scripts is calling them, after all, it just makes no sense that it only happens for some people.

 

The issues (most of the ones listed in the thread) stem from two things:

1) VERY legacy scripts (pre-release code that's been edited many many times since) was being compiled into the release BSA and called in place of newer, less buggy code (and often code that does something completely different!). This only happens to the end-user (not me) since I don't run the BSA, I run loose files and pack into a BSA. 

2) A few very critical AI packages were not checking if the player is in prison before running, but most were. This is designed to essentially do nothing (no prisoners, guards, whatever move from their original positions) until the player is in prison. A package was running that was sending all of the NPCs to the showers without any of the other supporting code, which means they get stuck there. I usually play brand-new characters when testing this (not even a full game day old) so it wouldn't have triggered yet.

 

I'm going to PM you when it's ready with a version to test with once I get all of this worked out, just let me know if it works better. There's more coming in the next update so I don't want to do a full release yet.

 

[Stuker]

48 minutes ago, SewerRats said:

I'm going to PM you when it's ready with a version to test with once I get all of this worked out, just let me know if it works better. There's more coming in the next update so I don't want to do a full release yet.

 

Ok, I'll keep this save to test it. And I'll run a completely fresh save going straight to prison on day one when I get your PM 

[smannfrau]

Didn't get the chance to fully test this mod yet. I keep getting crashes when entering Riften. They stop when I disable SewerRats. Does this mod change anything there? Sidenote, I can COC to Riften from the startmenu (before selecting a save) but on all saves (new, old clean and old unclean) I get a crash.

[Stuker]

This mod needs a MCM switch to turn off prostitution as illegal. Here's why:

 

I get rapped by guards in a city and after the sex animations they put a bounty on me. So I have to go to jail, the vanilla one because I'm not over the 1000 Septim threshold yet. I'm stuck in some DD gear making me a free fuck for everyone. Guess what happens after I'm released? Rape ---> Bounty ---> Jail in a never ending loop. Rape shouldn't be considered as prostitution in this mod. What if the player has set up his game world for prostitution to be legal everywhere?

 

In this state the mod is too intrusive. I'm not even near the amount needed to be send to the sewers but I can't play the game without being bothered by the guards anymore... 

 

Solution: Delete mod ?

[SewerRats]

1 hour ago, Stuker said:

This mod needs a MCM switch to turn off prostitution as illegal. Here's why:

 

I get rapped by guards in a city and after the sex animations they put a bounty on me. So I have to go to jail, the vanilla one because I'm not over the 1000 Septim threshold yet. I'm stuck in some DD gear making me a free fuck for everyone. Guess what happens after I'm released? Rape ---> Bounty ---> Jail in a never ending loop. Rape shouldn't be considered as prostitution in this mod. What if the player has set up his game world for prostitution to be legal everywhere?

  

In this state the mod is too intrusive. I'm not even near the amount needed to be send to the sewers but I can't play the game without being bothered by the guards anymore... 

  

 Solution: Delete mod ?

As for the sewers, i've reworked quite a bit - scene scripting is more robust as well as a complete rebuild of the work AI system (it used buggy IdleMarkers before and now is script/xmarker-driven, which works much better) - and have played a full day so far without losing any inmates or encountering anything beyond a few visual bugs (literally stuff like an NPC sweeping without a broom) that break immersion a bit but won't break the mod. I'm fixing mia (so you don't have to submit to her), adding a tutorial for the work, doing a bit of playtesting myself on a computer with a different configuration and then will send it to you for some initial testing... my goal in this release is to essentially have a bug-free sewer system so I can bring the work on the Reformatory into full scale instead of fixing bugs in this part of the mod.

 

As for the prostitution thing, the mod is supposed to check if money is exchanged for sex - it's a simple check but I can't think of any circumstance in which it would arrest you for prostitution in error. This is what it does for citizens (hence why you won't get arrested when raped by them) However, the guards use a different script, which simply checks if you have sex with them. IMO the guards wouldn't willingly have sex with a citizen out in the open and I didn't consider the rape mods in this. It is possible to make the script check if you are the ("victim") in sex (sexlab has an API for this) as well as a menu option. I added the prostitution/drugs thing to support the Reformatory and wanted to get it out in what will likely be the last beta release to catch bugs like this early. 

 

Anyway, the harder work is done at this point, this is probably a few days out of private testing (i'll message it to some others who have had exceptionally severe bugs as well).

[SewerRats]

20 hours ago, smannfrau said:

Didn't get the chance to fully test this mod yet. I keep getting crashes when entering Riften. They stop when I disable SewerRats. Does this mod change anything there? Sidenote, I can COC to Riften from the startmenu (before selecting a save) but on all saves (new, old clean and old unclean) I get a crash.

The only things it adds to Riften is a drug dealer. It makes some changes to the Ratway, but you'd only CTD after walking in there if that were the issue. I made a new save and fast-traveled to the stables, then went in the front gate without issue. However, this is on a version of the mod that isn't released yet (as explained above the entire focus in the next release is fixing bugs). I'll try it on the current release later today.

 

Have you disabled all mods aside from this and it's requirements? If not, try that and let me know if it still crashes. If it doesn't send me your load order as I should be able to ID the conflict and fix the issue from there. 

[smannfrau]

7 hours ago, SewerRats said:

The only things it adds to Riften is a drug dealer. It makes some changes to the Ratway, but you'd only CTD after walking in there if that were the issue. I made a new save and fast-traveled to the stables, then went in the front gate without issue. However, this is on a version of the mod that isn't released yet (as explained above the entire focus in the next release is fixing bugs). I'll try it on the current release later today.

 

Have you disabled all mods aside from this and it's requirements? If not, try that and let me know if it still crashes. If it doesn't send me your load order as I should be able to ID the conflict and fix the issue from there. 

I think my issue had something to do with dirty edits in Skyrims .esm files. I cleaned them using TES5Edit and the crash went away. Creation Engine is so weird sometimes.

[SewerRats]

One of the smaller non-bugfix changes in the upcoming release... real prison uniforms!

 

The scene where Mia tries to make you her bitch now has working alternatives as well - fight her, and if you win, choose to let her remain the "leader" of the prison... or... make her YOUR bitch and take control.

 

Edit: Just noticed a rat snuck into the picture. Yes, there's going to be rats as well. Only fitting.

 

[SewerRats]

7 hours ago, smannfrau said:

I think my issue had something to do with dirty edits in Skyrims .esm files. I cleaned them using TES5Edit and the crash went away. Creation Engine is so weird sometimes.

Souped up Gamebryo from ‘97 has it’s quirks. 

 

Trying to override the arcane AI routing system that almost always wants the NPC to go the farthest possible route through a few locked doors to the destination (when there’s an open passage leading right to it) is probably the kind of torture they have in hell.  

[Stuker]

I love the prison uniforms. You better make them available after serving my time. Bonus points for NPC comments! ?

[SewerRats]

1 hour ago, Stuker said:

I love the prison uniforms. You better make them available after serving my time. Bonus points for NPC comments! ?

A prison uniform vendor in the market square might be a bit unrealistic, but maybe I can hide a few in the guard barracks or something to steal... and the dialogue if you get caught! "Just can't wait to get back to prison, eh?"

[Stuker]

If there's an option to flee from the sewers they should just stay on the player.

[SewerRats]

If that long sentence in the sewers is getting you down, at least, remember you've got it better then she does. 

 

Just a little something I added to the solitary "recreation" area to make it slightly less boring. You can punch her all you want, you'll be able to train combat skills, and she won't be able to fight back.

 

The update will probably be feature-complete tomorrow, the only outstanding thing to implement at this point is a few new MCM options and the prostitution fixes.

[SewerRats]

12 hours ago, Stuker said:

If there's an option to flee from the sewers they should just stay on the player.

The last time I messed with the escape scripts was before the mod was released, but I definitely don't remember scripting anything in there that removes clothing. In fact, you keep your shackles too. You'll be able to just take them off right now (you can whenever you're not in the prison with them on), but I plan to add some type of dialogue where you have to try to get a blacksmith to remove them, with a small chance he reports you to the guards. I probably won't do any of this until the rest of the prisons are implemented as each one will have different types of restraints which would require a reworking of the quest later anyway.

[phil01991]

How goes this mod? Looking forward to getting it. Is it stable and functional with other mods

[SewerRats]

16 hours ago, phil01991 said:

How goes this mod? Looking forward to getting it. Is it stable and functional with other mods

It's a beta, at least in the latest public release. I'd still recommend using a clean save and treating it as more of a work in progress then something to integrate into your gameplay. The upcoming version (private beta in a few days, public release in a few weeks) is much more stable and, most likely, will drop the "Beta" tag at that point.

[PurpleDeep]

Great job with the mod so far!

I've been following it since I find the concept, and the direction you are taking it, very interesting.

I tested the last few releases, and it worked well, apart from some of the bugs that have already been mentioned in the thread. Some where already patched and others are on the process of, so I'll wait until the next release to see if there are any remaining.

I'm looking forward for your update, and will tell you how everything works once it is out.

[SewerRats]

I'm reviving the "Bully system" from Raven Beak in a roundabout way.

 

When you defeat Mia, regardless if you choose to be "independent" or to turn her into your bitch, you gain the ability to bully other inmates into giving up work credits. Since you've defeated the biggest boss in the prison, most of them will comply with you, others will fight. If you win the fight or the inmate simply doesn't attempt to resist, you will get all of the work credits they earned throughout the day. This will 100% be in the next release, it's about halfway done after spending about an hour trying to fix a deeply-embedded bit of Mia's AI system and the code surrounding it that kept putting her back into the chair (if she's your bitch, you'd want that chair for yourself!) even when I had a conditional package run over it that put her on the floor once you demand she sleep there.

 

Edit: Player-as-the-bully part of the system is done and working well (if you win fights, you get credits, if you lose, the inmate you tried to bully takes yours - and calls the guards on you if you try to lie your way out of the situation). In the process of implementing the player as a victim part, I found a major bug in the "debt" system (the one that's already implemented) in which you're essentially getting free stuff. I've fixed that, but most likely will use debts as a major reason for the bullying (when being bullied by Mia). If you owe money and make enough credits to pay it, she will come and collect. If you fail to pay, she'll call the guards (who are on her side) and you'll get hauled off to solitary (or a fight, not sure which one would be better)

 

Also, generally speaking, the ones with more credits to lose will be more resistant to your attempts at taking them. The ones that just give in won't have very many to give you.

 

I'm also likely to do the reverse, so if you're the bitch, the two "bullies" of the prison (Mia/Angel) will from time to time force you to give up your work credits. This of course provides a major incentive to actually take on Mia, so you can get out of prison faster and get the bullies off your back.

 

 

[SewerRats]

5 hours ago, PurpleDeep said:

Great job with the mod so far!

I've been following it since I find the concept, and the direction you are taking it, very interesting.

I tested the last few releases, and it worked well, apart from some of the bugs that have already been mentioned in the thread. Some where already patched and others are on the process of, so I'll wait until the next release to see if there are any remaining.

I'm looking forward for your update, and will tell you how everything works once it is out.

Thank you! The upcoming update, at the start of work on it, was mostly bugfixes. However, most of the remaining bugs are only still there because they are rooted in deeper issues. For example, the bugs with work AI packages is the result of a system of "IdleMarkers" which were used to control work instead of scripts and regular travel packages. This way of implementing things is straight out of 2012 when the CK first came out and no one knew any better, but it was one of the first things I had built in this mod - which was a bit over six months of on/off work  a few hours a week until it was released. Consequently, fixing that bug also fixed a bug where inmates would completely go away, probably falling off the map to never be seen again. As a result, most of the tougher ones are gone in the latest development build which I will send to you as well when I release it to a few users for closed testing. There is a good number of new features added as well since they have became possible after rebuilding some of the more problematic AI/Script code controlling the mod.

[KirovNod]

I tried flooding the cell but nothing happens, the guard just brings the character near the ladder and fire then bring her back to the cell. 

[SewerRats]

16 hours ago, KirovNod said:

I tried flooding the cell but nothing happens, the guard just brings the character near the ladder and fire then bring her back to the cell. 

That is exactly what is supposed to happen - assuming by the "fire" you mean guard puts you inside the cage and burns you in it. On the third trip to the fire you will die, each time you go you will get progressively injured and lose a limb if you have amputator installed. Flooding the cell is always going to get caught by the guards and is effectively a suicide method. I'm going to add a random probability of not getting caught (aka, killing yourself by drowning) in the next update

[KirovNod]

2 hours ago, SewerRats said:

That is exactly what is supposed to happen - assuming by the "fire" you mean guard puts you inside the cage and burns you in it. On the third trip to the fire you will die, each time you go you will get progressively injured and lose a limb if you have amputator installed. Flooding the cell is always going to get caught by the guards and is effectively a suicide method. I'm going to add a random probability of not getting caught (aka, killing yourself by drowning) in the next update

No, the guard never put the character inside the cage... I have tried several times but still nothing happens. 

[PurpleDeep]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:26 AM, SewerRats said:

Thank you! The upcoming update, at the start of work on it, was mostly bugfixes. However, most of the remaining bugs are only still there because they are rooted in deeper issues. For example, the bugs with work AI packages is the result of a system of "IdleMarkers" which were used to control work instead of scripts and regular travel packages. This way of implementing things is straight out of 2012 when the CK first came out and no one knew any better, but it was one of the first things I had built in this mod - which was a bit over six months of on/off work  a few hours a week until it was released. Consequently, fixing that bug also fixed a bug where inmates would completely go away, probably falling off the map to never be seen again. As a result, most of the tougher ones are gone in the latest development build which I will send to you as well when I release it to a few users for closed testing. There is a good number of new features added as well since they have became possible after rebuilding some of the more problematic AI/Script code controlling the mod.

6 months is quite some time, yet still few compared to what you have implemented here. I guess its not your first mod.

Anyway, I'll gladly test out the next release, and I am looking forward to the new features.