prison SewerRats - A Crime & Punishment Overhaul

[SewerRats]

2 minutes ago, PurpleDeep said:

I have noticed this too in the previous release, but have not been able to check if it has been solved. I assumed solitary was not yet implemented after that point, and since the patch notes don't mention it, I believe it is still unfinished.

  

This sounds like a very good idea. As said before, getting presented to the Jarl would probably be the most "lore friendly" way of doing it. He could decide your sentence based on the severity of your crime, your speech skill or if you are a Jarl in that province. He could perhaps even lower the days in the sewer a little in exchange for some... favor. Besides, it would give all the sentencing means a common starting point, without simply teleporting the player. Getting walked to the places would also be nice for immersion. I think POP does this in a good way. It gives you the option of choosing different walking speeds and to skip it completely. (To avoid having to walk from Winterhold to Riften in leg shackles, for example. That would be enough punishment on its own).

  

 

Solitary is finished, this is a bug that for some reason didn't get added to the list of reported bugs to be fixed in 1.2. I can take a look.

[Doobydoob]

Were you going to add my idea about the nickname idea for if you become a bitch within the system? i was just curious. 

[SewerRats]

1 minute ago, Doobydoob said:

Were you going to add my idea about the nickname idea for if you become a bitch within the system? i was just curious. 

It's possible now with the implementation of BookTxtAPI (see my sig's link to my plugin and it's technical implementation). This allows custom text to be entered by the user and picked up by a mod, which was previously the primary roadblock to such a feature being implemented outside of a non-immersive MCM menu (since Skyrim has no native text input). With this, which came to be in 1.2, it is certainly on the list, but fixing solitary and work on the reformatory are the highest-priority issues at the moment. 

[DankMods134]

12 minutes ago, SewerRats said:

I like that concept. I'll probably copy POP's system to some extent (such as walking), although I don't like having the player sit in jail for days before being brought to the Jarl... to sit in another jail for a much longer time. I might do something much like in real life, where the trial date is set at random essentially (simulating a caseload) 1-3 days in the future. The Speech skill does make the most sense here.

 

Just to point it out, since i'm sure someone will uncover this anyway, the reformatory, in a broken state, snuck it's way into 1.2. You can get a preview of it by turning yourself in at the facility outside of Dawnstar, but do this on a new save since it is horribly buggy and breaks itself in short order.

Actually in real life 90% of offenders do not sit in jail before their trial.  Perhaps a solution to your problem would be parole system although I am unsure how difficult this would be to mod in.

 

Something like: player is taken jail after being caught.  The steward comes to their cell after one day and tells them if they pay X amount in fine they can be released as long as they come to the jarl on X date.  Then the player can either show up or have a significantly increased bounty.  This way players aren't forced to sit and wait and can continue on with their game while they wait to be judged.  Also adds the possibility for bounty hunters later on.  

 

its up to you how you want to handle that but this is certainly one option.  Skyrim almost certainly would not have a functioning parole system but given the player's status as dragonborn they may be willing to release them in this manner idk.

[SewerRats]

Just now, Kharnsjockstrap said:

Actually in real life 90% of offenders do not sit in jail before their trial.  Perhaps a solution to your problem would be parole system although I am unsure how difficult this would be to mod in.

 

Something like: player is taken jail after being caught.  The steward comes to their cell after one day and tells them if they pay X amount in fine they can be released as long as they come to the jarl on X date.  Then the player can either show up or have a significantly increased bounty.  This way players aren't forced to sit and wait and can continue on with their game while they wait to be judged.  Also adds the possibility for bounty hunters later on.  

 

its up to you how you want to handle that but this is certainly one option.  Skyrim almost certainly would not have a functioning parole system but given the player's status as dragonborn they may be willing to release them in this manner idk.

Interesting. The concept is Bail, not parole, which came to be in the early 12th century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail#History)

 

I think the concept of bail itself would fit with the times quite well - lore is a different story, but I definitely take the position that if it doesn't say anything about it, it's fair game.

[DankMods134]

1 minute ago, SewerRats said:

Interesting. The concept is Bail, not parole, which came to be in the early 12th century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail#History)

 

I think the concept of bail itself would fit with the times quite well - lore is a different story, but I definitely take the position that if it doesn't say anything about it, it's fair game.

ah you are correct bail is the concept I am thinking of.

 

Although I do like the idea.  Part of skyrims problem with thief characters imo is there becomes little to no money sink and a bail system adds another one which is great.  You end up just kind of paying fines because you are rolling in cash with nothing to spend it on so having to pay bail and be let out into the world with little to no money would be a very interesting twist on playing a criminal in skyrim imo.

[PurpleDeep]

4 minutes ago, SewerRats said:

Interesting. The concept is Bail, not parole, which came to be in the early 12th century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail#History)

 

I think the concept of bail itself would fit with the times quite well - lore is a different story, but I definitely take the position that if it doesn't say anything about it, it's fair game.

Perhaps being released with bail would be okay after stealing some sweetrolls, but I find it hard to believe the Jarl would be that kind if you shout half the town apart. Spending the days before trial behind bars seems logical for the severe crimes. Besides, it would not require much work. The vanilla prison is already there. Instead of not being used, they could be the "I don't think you'll come back for trial" option.

[SewerRats]

47 minutes ago, PurpleDeep said:

Perhaps being released with bail would be okay after stealing some sweetrolls, but I find it hard to believe the Jarl would be that kind if you shout half the town apart. Spending the days before trial behind bars seems logical for the severe crimes. Besides, it would not require much work. The vanilla prison is already there. Instead of not being used, they could be the "I don't think you'll come back for trial" option.

As in, just how it works IRL. Murderers, rapists, etc don't just get to walk. A simple bounty maximum would do the job here, similar to how I have it setup for the sewers. 

 

Speaking of rapists, it's an interesting overlook on my part that prostitution is criminalized, yet rape isn't. That should probably be fixed in 1.3, i'd say. 

[SewerRats]

Am I the only one getting a bug where the schedule goes crazy after PM search (resets back to AM work instead of showers)? Playing on an uncleaned old save to see what 1.2 fixes in that environment and just making sure it’s related to that. 

[Whizkid]

11 minutes ago, SewerRats said:

Am I the only one getting a bug where the schedule goes crazy after PM search (resets back to AM work instead of showers)? Playing on an uncleaned old save to see what 1.2 fixes in that environment and just making sure it’s related to that. 

will there be a unp BS version of the custom outfit?

[jc321]

2 hours ago, SewerRats said:

Am I the only one getting a bug where the schedule goes crazy after PM search (resets back to AM work instead of showers)? Playing on an uncleaned old save to see what 1.2 fixes in that environment and just making sure it’s related to that. 

Nope, I get that too, only other noticeable effect since is that some of the inmates don't enter the work area for the PM shift but get stuck at the top of the stairs with the doors closing (a forced move from the debug fixes) which was fine with version 1.10

 

Also noticed the kitchen/canteen area door is sometimes open and accessible in PM shift. After the reset bug above, have noticed both doors are open so can wander back down even in the AM work pattern state.

 

Thanks for the great work, my favourite mod at the moment.  

[Kalthen]

I don't know if this has been reported, but I have a problem with the transition of the afternoon shift to the boilerroom washing szene. After the afternoon inspection it jumps to the morning shift and restarts the quest with the am tasks. About 90% of the time. Does this have to do with the timescale??

 

Ahh not the only one...hehe

 

[zwdragonbone8314]

5 hours ago, Kalthen said:

I don't know if this has been reported, but I have a problem with the transition of the afternoon shift to the boilerroom washing szene. After the afternoon inspection it jumps to the morning shift and restarts the quest with the am tasks. About 90% of the time. Does this have to do with the timescale??

 

Ahh not the only one...hehe

 

I got exactly the same problem.

[SewerRats]

I’ve located the issue and fixed it, will verify that and then push the update. 

[Stuker]

9 hours ago, SewerRats said:

Am I the only one getting a bug where the schedule goes crazy after PM search (resets back to AM work instead of showers)? Playing on an uncleaned old save to see what 1.2 fixes in that environment and just making sure it’s related to that. 

I've noticed that too but wasn't sure if it was really happening or I was just to stoned. And it was an uncleaned old save file too.

 

And I got force greeted by the guards for smoking a cigarette. I didn't have cigarettes but I was addicted to crack. But again, it was an uncleaned old save. Gonna start a fresh save tonight.

[SewerRats]

6 hours ago, Stuker said:

I've noticed that too but wasn't sure if it was really happening or I was just to stoned. And it was an uncleaned old save file too.

 

And I got force greeted by the guards for smoking a cigarette. I didn't have cigarettes but I was addicted to crack. But again, it was an uncleaned old save. Gonna start a fresh save tonight.

I didn’t fix the forcegreet bug, couldn’t get to the bottom of it in time. I didn’t check addictions tho - it might be related to that system. I’ll go down that road and see if it gets me anywhere...

 

And the bug is fixed, but I didn’t push the update yet. It’s a real thing, one line of code was setting the time to 7am instead of PM. Added a check and set the time correctly and it goes away 

[SewerRats]

Pushed 1.21, this fixes what appears to be the only major bug as of 1.2 (when it goes crazy before showers). I also fixed solitary - the cuffs work now, and the fire only burns when you're going into it. I removed the fake "outside" recreation yard as it was obviously simulated (I could've made it actually outside, but I hate loadscreens). It's now just a dark, gloomy dungeon. I Added a prompt indicating the end time of the "recreation" as some falsely reported it as a bug.

[SewerRats]

22 hours ago, Whizkid said:

will there be a unp BS version of the custom outfit?

BodySlide is supported, it's only CBBE right now. That's what I use personally, so I didn't want to add a UNP one without testing. I'm not sure if there will be a minor update before the reformatory release or not, but this would be included if I decide to do another update prior.

[Whizkid]

1 hour ago, SewerRats said:

BodySlide is supported, it's only CBBE right now. That's what I use personally, so I didn't want to add a UNP one without testing. I'm not sure if there will be a minor update before the reformatory release or not, but this would be included if I decide to do another update prior.

nice thanks for update

[Doobydoob]

Just another opinion, could you add a way to speed up the shower scene with all the NPC's is just very dragged out IMO.

[SewerRats]

Anyone that had downloaded 1.21 prior to 1:30 AM EST, please redownload/reinstall the update with as it contained an error which was caught and fixed about an hour later. 

[SewerRats]

On 12/18/2018 at 1:45 AM, Doobydoob said:

Just another opinion, could you add a way to speed up the shower scene with all the NPC's is just very dragged out IMO.

Honestly the showers are one of my least favorite scenes. Slow, not very immersive, etc etc. I do like the concept of being literally blasted with the water at a high speed, it’s quite cruel. Some type of group showers where they all line up at once and get blasted at the same time would be much nicer, but there is a bit of a technical hurdle.

 

Every other scene doesn’t have anything actually happening in the background, but the showers removes your slavetats. The slavetats API is so exceptionally inefficient... it’s a mess (no offense to the dev, happy to help fix it!). It’s so slow that I had to time the shower scene to match. 

 

I might dump dump slavetats in the future and hook right into NiOverride, which would eliminate a requirement and allow me to fix the showers properly. 

[jc321]

3 hours ago, SewerRats said:

Honestly the showers are one of my least favorite scenes. Slow, not very immersive, etc etc. I do like the concept of being literally blasted with the water at a high speed, it’s quite cruel. Some type of group showers where they all line up at once and get blasted at the same time would be much nicer, but there is a bit of a technical hurdle.

 

Every other scene doesn’t have anything actually happening in the background, but the showers removes your slavetats. The slavetats API is so exceptionally inefficient... it’s a mess (no offense to the dev, happy to help fix it!). It’s so slow that I had to time the shower scene to match. 

 

I might dump dump slavetats in the future and hook right into NiOverride, which would eliminate a requirement and allow me to fix the showers properly. 

 

Could you drop the frequency?, maybe miss shower scene on first day, activate it on the second and maybe something that happens once a week, or every 3 days or randomly. 

[SewerRats]

2 hours ago, jc321 said:

 

Could you drop the frequency?, maybe miss shower scene on first day, activate it on the second and maybe something that happens once a week, or every 3 days or randomly. 

Yes, but i'd rather not. If I can't fix the SlaveTats issue, i'd consider it. 

 

Each scene is timed, among other things, to start with the end of the previous one. Cutting a scene out entirely would "snowball effect" into a real mess. Not to say it can't be fixed - it could - but just fixing the scene itself would be much easier.

[Erizot]

If anyone else uses Skooma Whore, let me know if you're also getting a bug where previous to installing this mod, drinking skooma or other drugs added by the skooma whore mod in public or in front of guards would get you an instant bounty and an arrest attempt, but now that only happens with the sewer rats drugs. I'm not sure if sewer rats would interfere with skooma whore or not, or if it's something else on my end.