Another Beth Update...

[AngelPhoenix69]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:33 PM, cleavagesweat said:

again? I uninstalled fo4 last week. I remembered why I stopped playing it 6 months after release. it is BORING... i'm going back to oldrim.

No I think they are talking about the 31st update last month. there hasnt been another one since, the botched settlement hoard attack.

[Swanky]

Worst thing about it is that it actually preloads each CC DLC onto your harddrive even if you never bought the DLC. Deinstalled FO4 for each issue (updates, hard drive usage) because of this.

[Celedhring]

This is the reason I keep a backup of my FO4 game.  I haven't bothered to update in a long time and I prefer it that way. 

[FauxFurry]

Has it really only been since August 29 since the last update? How have they still not figured out how to just release their CC front page updates on Bethesda.net yet?

[Andy14]

I made a downgrade on Steam many weeks ago (August I think).
Then my files are read-only and a backup created.
For weeks Steam shows me - "Fallout needs an update" - but (in this case) I have to do it manually.
Obviously, Steam realizes that they have downgraded - and automatic updates are (for now) not active.

 

See here:

[KoolHndLuke]

On 9/17/2018 at 1:33 PM, cleavagesweat said:

(FO4) It is BORING

At least it's pretty to look at some times.

[Halstrom]

What scares me is Beth might keep doing this every month for 5 years and eventually the people behind F4SE or LooksMenu or MCM are going to just leave breaking over half the core mods people use. Then when Beth realises no one is updating anymore and buying new CC they might decide to do something too late. 

[D_ManXX2]

Just saw this post i am still using 1.10.111 do you need this new one to play with AAF or can 1.10.111 still be used with it right now the shuffle key is not working.

[Cezul]

I don't really foresee Beth catering to this very long - given their track record of crapping out games, and then ditching them.

They'll get tired of maintaining CC eventually, only thing that really keeps it afloat are Consoles and gullible PC noobs, logically from a profit point of view you'd think it simply won't be worth the expenditure paying employees to curate mods when they could be better used working on the big new turd they'll crap out in the next 2 years or so.....
But it could be like Halstrom said and they'll deliver the final annoyance that makes some people quit outright. Hopefully they shut it down before then.

[KoolHndLuke]

I never downloaded the CC content and am still playing an old version of FO4. Means I can't use mods utilizing the newer F4SE, but, it also means I never have to worry about CC crap. One popular mod author has already called quits over this shit. Beth/Zen is slowly killing modding for their fucking games!!! Geniuses.....

[Tefnacht]

I am with Halstrom on this one. I am afraid too. The current practice cannot continue for much longer. One slap to the face each month? People are going to get annoyed eventually.

 

Place Everywhere, LooksMenu, MCM and EDI are all essential mods for me and they all need to be updated every time the cancer club metastasizes, not to speak of F4SE itself. If just one of these awesome people gets annoyed enough to quit --- it's done.

 

By the way, I haven't ever used the CC myself. I click on it in the main menu and it asks for an email registration and agreement to some more obtuse legalese? Yeah. No. Fuck off. I've seen the reviews of the CC content on YouTube. Not. Interested. Not even for free.

[Bruce Banner]

What gets me is how can there be any NEED for them to update the exe each time they add content to Crap Club ( no offence to the modders who create content on there , just the platform itself ) . They should do one more compulsory update giving the option to opt in or out of creation club and then only add the stuff for those that opt in . Not exactly rocket science is it .

[Benmc20]

18 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I never downloaded the CC content and am still playing an old version of FO4. Means I can't use mods utilizing the newer F4SE, but, it also means I never have to worry about CC crap. One popular mod author has already called quits over this shit. Beth/Zen is slowly killing modding for their fucking games!!! Geniuses.....

Same for me. And the 1.9.4 version is really stable.

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, Benmc20 said:

Same for me. And the 1.9.4 version is really stable.

Except today I accidentally let Steam download that shit to my game. Now I'm going to delete it all.

[Twycross448]

6 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

What gets me is how can there be any NEED for them to update the exe each time they add content to Crap Club ( no offence to the modders who create content on there , just the platform itself ) . They should do one more compulsory update giving the option to opt in or out of creation club and then only add the stuff for those that opt in . Not exactly rocket science is it .

Haha. You misunderstand their intentions. They want to break peoples games with each update.

Why? You said it yourself. They want all modders who don't work for them (for the CC) to eventually get pissed off and stop modding or switch over to the CC.

We must always be aware that the long term goal of Bethesda is to create a closed ecosystem where playermade content (mods, fan patches etc.) are only available via their Creation Club/Beth-Launcher.

They want full control (and earn a bit of money on the side for the work other poeple do on their games).

 

Imagine when Tes6/FO5 roll around, and by then they have succeeded in creating a closed system, they would actually be able to make money by not doing their jobs properly.

The method would be simple: release an intentionally bugged game, don't release patches, modders create fanpatches and put them on the CC (because mods have to come from there by now), people buy the fanpatches (because conveniently Bethesda changed it so that each mod on the CC must cost at least 1 Dollar)... and there you have it. Beth would actually make money by intentionally leaving bugs in the game. A corporate dream come true. Get money by doing nothing.

 

Plus, having absolute control via the CC would mean people wouldn't be able to make any lewd/sex mods anymore. (We all know Bethesdas/Zenimaxes shareholders really don't like those because they think they make them look bad.)

 

So yes, the things are as they are because Bethesda wants it that way.

[AWP3RATOR]

4 hours ago, Twycross448 said:

Haha. You misunderstand their intentions. They want to break peoples games with each update.

Why? You said it yourself. They want all modders who don't work for them (for the CC) to eventually get pissed off and stop modding or switch over to the CC.

We must always be aware that the long term goal of Bethesda is to create a closed ecosystem where playermade content (mods, fan patches etc.) are only available via their Creation Club/Beth-Launcher.

They want full control (and earn a bit of money on the side for the work other poeple do on their games).

 

Imagine when Tes6/FO5 roll around, and by then they have succeeded in creating a closed system, they would actually be able to make money by not doing their jobs properly.

The method would be simple: release an intentionally bugged game, don't release patches, modders create fanpatches and put them on the CC (because mods have to come from there by now), people buy the fanpatches (because conveniently Bethesda changed it so that each mod on the CC must cost at least 1 Dollar)... and there you have it. Beth would actually make money by intentionally leaving bugs in the game. A corporate dream come true. Get money by doing nothing.

 

Plus, having absolute control via the CC would mean people wouldn't be able to make any lewd/sex mods anymore. (We all know Bethesdas/Zenimaxes shareholders really don't like those because they think they make them look bad.)

 

So yes, the things are as they are because Bethesda wants it that way.

While I respect your opinion on this topic, I could not disagreed more (with respect).  I will not pick apart your argument, as I can see that you have an emotional connection to this - we all do, and that's a great thing!  We all love gaming and I believe that also  translates to the developers of our most beloved franchises:  Fallout and Elder Scrolls.  While the mother companies of our favorite development studios have profits in mind, I can tell you with absolute certainly that the developers of the game want to put out the best product they absolutely can.  Sure Bethesda games have been historically buggy at launch and yes the company does appear slow to respond to fix some of the issues - but I think we can afford them a bit of slack.  Developing software is a challenging thing, and 100% bug free software is not reality.  There will always be some user who has some problem because they did a thing that wasn't anticipated.  Add modding support on top of that and it's becomes a constantly moving target.

 

I like to believe that Bethesda does support modding and the community in general - as evidenced by the superior modding tools offered with their games at launch (or near launch) versus most other AAA houses which don't ever offer modding tools.  The Creation Club itself to me is a bit of trial and error thing.  While I do believe Bethesda thinks this is the future especially as their games move to an online platform - I don't believe they designed it this way on purpose specifically to crowd out the third party modders and modding sites.

 

Instead, I tend to believe that like most things, Creation Club was a good sounding idea on the whiteboard and on paper - but in practice, it has issues and needs refining before the community will accept it (if we ever do).  I remain optimistic about the future of Bethesda single-player (non-always-online) games and what that may bring the modding community.  While ESO and FO76 go against that grain, I still believe the company in general is committed to the community, their fan base.  They cannot afford to piss us off to the point we'd no longer purchase their products, that's for sure.  While at the same time, I believe we all need to take a step back and let the company find its legs again (as they clearly have stumbled) in new world where always online everything all the time is a reality.  We'll need to adapt a bit, and so will they.  Hopefully we can find some middle ground.

 

 

Signed - a professional software developer (full disclosure :-p), modder, and gamer.

[Twycross448]

10 hours ago, AWP3RATOR said:

While I respect your opinion on this topic, I could not disagreed more (with respect).  I will not pick apart your argument, as I can see that you have an emotional connection to this - we all do, and that's a great thing!  We all love gaming and I believe that also  translates to the developers of our most beloved franchises:  Fallout and Elder Scrolls.  While the mother companies of our favorite development studios have profits in mind, I can tell you with absolute certainly that the developers of the game want to put out the best product they absolutely can.  Sure Bethesda games have been historically buggy at launch and yes the company does appear slow to respond to fix some of the issues - but I think we can afford them a bit of slack.  Developing software is a challenging thing, and 100% bug free software is not reality.  There will always be some user who has some problem because they did a thing that wasn't anticipated.  Add modding support on top of that and it's becomes a constantly moving target.

 

I like to believe that Bethesda does support modding and the community in general - as evidenced by the superior modding tools offered with their games at launch (or near launch) versus most other AAA houses which don't ever offer modding tools.  The Creation Club itself to me is a bit of trial and error thing.  While I do believe Bethesda thinks this is the future especially as their games move to an online platform - I don't believe they designed it this way on purpose specifically to crowd out the third party modders and modding sites.

 

Instead, I tend to believe that like most things, Creation Club was a good sounding idea on the whiteboard and on paper - but in practice, it has issues and needs refining before the community will accept it (if we ever do).  I remain optimistic about the future of Bethesda single-player (non-always-online) games and what that may bring the modding community.  While ESO and FO76 go against that grain, I still believe the company in general is committed to the community, their fan base.  They cannot afford to piss us off to the point we'd no longer purchase their products, that's for sure.  While at the same time, I believe we all need to take a step back and let the company find its legs again (as they clearly have stumbled) in new world where always online everything all the time is a reality.  We'll need to adapt a bit, and so will they.  Hopefully we can find some middle ground.

 

 

Signed - a professional software developer (full disclosure :-p), modder, and gamer.

 

Not a problem for me, AWP3Rator. Everyone is allowed their opinion. ? And I am the last person to think that my opinion is the only valid one, as I know perceptions can be flawed.

 

But I also know that in the end, it is not the code gurus, artists and other developers who call the shots. It is the suit wearers, the number crunchers, the wall street warriors. (If you permit me using that term here.)

And of those say "Close it down, we want to make even more money.", the devs can either do so or look for another job.

So yes, I fully expect the Creation Club to be a closed ecosystem within 10 years. It is always a matter of most money for least effort. And in the end, the money folks always win.

[cleavagesweat]

who wants to make a wager that ES6/FO5 will NOT have a CK? they most likely won't.

[Spyder Arachnid]

6 hours ago, cleavagesweat said:

who wants to make a wager that ES6/FO5 will NOT have a CK? they most likely won't.

 

The CK is used to create the mods that you see today. Without a CK of some sort, most mods wouldn't be made. Meaning, no community authors making mods for their Creation Club. Meaning no money. That would leave Bethesda to be the only ones making custom content for their Creation Club, and we all know that just wouldn't do.

[cleavagesweat]

17 hours ago, SpyderArachnid said:

 

The CK is used to create the mods that you see today. Without a CK of some sort, most mods wouldn't be made. Meaning, no community authors making mods for their Creation Club. Meaning no money. That would leave Bethesda to be the only ones making custom content for their Creation Club, and we all know that just wouldn't do.

i'm hoping i'm wrong but I can see a future where they just make mods themselves and CC will be the only avenue of altering the game. only time will tell.

[shencereys]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:05 PM, SpyderArachnid said:

 

And almost any mod you have that uses F4SE. Most tend to break as well when Bethesda pushes a new update. So if you haven't set Steam to only update when you launch the game, and you ended up getting the update, you can either rollback to the previous version (google), or you won't be able to play for a few days while waiting for all the mods to update.

 

Things like CCCleaner, Better Console, Crafting Highlight Fix, LooksMenu, etc etc (mods that rely on F4SE), will need to be updated to the newest patch when the new F4SE comes out. So depending how fast F4SE comes out and how fast modders work/update their mods, it should only be a few days. A week at most.

 

This is why you should always set Steam to only update when you launch the game. As long as you don't launch the game via the launcher in Steam, it won't update. You can launch it just fine via F4SE and not have to worry about the update. And then when all your mods have updated and F4SE is updated, feel free to update then.

create a backup copy of your .exe and future proof yourself. 

 

You can download a stupid beth update by accident and still just overwite the .exe while you wait for mods to update, then launch from F4SE.

 

Gonna be fun when someday you gotta find a copy of the right Fallout 4 exe from ...erhm.. "somewhere" ...to play with xyz constellation of mods that never got updated because the authors gave up.

[Reginald_001]

9 hours ago, shencereys said:

create a backup copy of your .exe and future proof yourself. 

 

You can download a stupid beth update by accident and still just overwite the .exe while you wait for mods to update, then launch from F4SE.

 

Gonna be fun when someday you gotta find a copy of the right Fallout 4 exe from ...erhm.. "somewhere" ...to play with xyz constellation of mods that never got updated because the authors gave up.

Doesn't help. The last update did something to the game files, I couldn't avoid it. I had clicked once on the wrong icon by accident and it immediately updated, within seconds I was fucked. I restored my exe as usual but my savegame was corrupted. I lost my Red Rocket Basement build, all my carefully crafted settlements.. 4 days of real life savegame time lost.

 

Now after the latest update, in game lights aren't working correctly, no idea why.. I haven't changed or added any mods.

I hate these fucking updates.

[Benmc20]

If I am not mistaken, you can force Steam to reinstall a specific version of any game with a special command line. I'm pretty sure to have read something like this before.

[Jazzman]

On 10/6/2018 at 8:00 PM, Benmc20 said:

Same for me. And the 1.9.4 version is really stable.

...

If I am not mistaken, you can force Steam to reinstall a specific version of any game with a special command line. I'm pretty sure to have read something like this before.

 

Indeed. The corresponding F4SE is v0.4.2. rel 6. However, the usual suspects have managed to delete all links to a proper rollback (all 8 files, 605 MB) from v1.10.20(ff. ?) to v1.9.4 (different CRCs), as it seems.

 

Guide: How to download older versions of a game on Steam

[Reginald_001]

This is Bathesda's strategy. I predict Fallout 4 will get more 'bumps' for modders soon, I suspect major mods will become incompatible suddenly, forcing modders to re-release their mods or patches for their mods.. all to discourage people and modders from F04 and push them to their new FO game.

 

There's NO TECHNICAL reason AT ALL for this kind of release management. It's by DESIGN that it breaks compatibility with F4SE.

And if it's not by design than they would be utterly stupid... considering the knowledge and technology behind their engines and games.. no they are not stupid.. so logically... this poor release management is by DESIGN. Implemented to wear us down to the point where we modders give up, and giving players a nightmare of compatibility issues.

 

To fix my current issues, I did a 'fix forward'.. I just patched everything again.

I LOST my savegame. It just crashes whenever I visit Red Rocket.

I LOST the special build for Ivy's Video Logs (all her stages that I've set up for her, around 30 different ones, many unused yet).

So I'll need to redo all of that again to go back to where I was yesterday.

DLC development is halted until I can level up into the DLC's again and play through to where I was before.