Mods and Money!?

[Halstrom]

9 hours ago, 27X said:

Ironic using this a pretext because the real money is moving to Blender/Maya and full deferred rendering CG workups, while using a six year old game as your primary content platform. If Bethesda was more concerned with hitting those Zenimax defined expectations with yearly output, this would be a very different conversation.

 

What people. You and dagobaking and two others keep bringing all this theoretical shit to the table like it's an actual talking point. Meanwhile the Sims, 2nd Life and SFM nonoriginal 100% other people's stuff money train continues to choochoo its way down the tracks right now as we speak, meanwhile Beth is looking with Zenimax at how to monetize Starfield and TES VI as we speak.

Funny you slept through the whole Steam debacle it seems. Monetizing other peoples stuff is  not black and white, sure if their input is 5% they don't deserve a cent, but if its 95% they have every right to charge for their hours that provide users with hours of enjoyment.

7 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

You mean the paid mods on steam? That was rejected by pretty much everyone, even the people that are advocating for paywalls now, no?

No it wasn't, it was railroaded by "want it for free" users and the few modders who were worried about their stuff being stolen even though it still gets stolen anyway. Users outnumbered the modders hundreds to 1 so a lot of good modders got the craps and left, good job killing SexOut by pissing off Prideslayer guys. Youstill argue the same stuff in this thread about paywalls too. It amounts to shutting down any site that sells mods in any way even if its donations and that is removing freedom of a free market telling Steam and Beth what they can and can't do. I'm all for free mods, but its the modders freedom of choice to charge for their work. Its like saying a carpenter has no right to charge for building a house because he got some of the wood for free.

[Veniat]

I really don't understand why paid mods or donation based models are so controversial; I've been supporting people on Patreon since it first became more widespread and the only time I really disagree or get dissatisfied is when something is pay-walled in a way that I consider unfair, like as a deliberate subscription with very few free releases over a donation where everything is released publicly eventually with scheduled free releases.  

I've bought nearly everything on the Creation Club and have been satisfied with my purchases as they're not that expensive and they all seem to be good quality, I enjoyed them. 

 

If something is overpriced for what you get out of it no one will buy it and eventually someone else will either pirate it so people will end up getting it for free anyway, or make an alternative.  It happens in the software market, and it'll happen with mods too so long as the tools to do so are available. 

 

If someone puts a lot of work into it and then releases it so others can enjoy it, even if they made it for their own fulfilment to begin with, don't the creators deserve to be paid for their work if they want or need the money?  

I mean, I support more of a pay-what-you-can or a pay-what-you-want model over anything else, but I still support a fixed price if someone wants to do so. 

The whole piracy thing is kind-of irrelevant when it comes down to it, someone will pirate or try to monetise content no matter what you do, whether it had a monetary cost in the first place or not; if not to make money or scam people, than just to get the ill-gained fame and reputation. 

[GrimReaper]

2 hours ago, Halstrom said:

Funny you slept through the whole Steam debacle it seems. Monetizing other peoples stuff is  not black and white, sure if their input is 5% they don't deserve a cent, but if its 95% they have every right to charge for their hours that provide users with hours of enjoyment.

No it wasn't, it was railroaded by "want it for free" users and the few modders who were worried about their stuff being stolen even though it still gets stolen anyway. Users outnumbered the modders hundreds to 1 so a lot of good modders got the craps and left, good job killing SexOut by pissing off Prideslayer guys. Youstill argue the same stuff in this thread about paywalls too. It amounts to shutting down any site that sells mods in any way even if its donations and that is removing freedom of a free market telling Steam and Beth what they can and can't do. I'm all for free mods, but its the modders freedom of choice to charge for their work. Its like saying a carpenter getting free wood has no right to charge for building a house with it.

I didn't, but even the people supporting the idea of modders getting money for mods weren't really happy about the 75/25 revenue split because the guys doing 100% of the work got only 25% of the money. Then there was the issue that Skyrim already had a few years of modding behind it and introducing paid mods was a bad idea, the best example for that would be Chesko's Art of the Catch. A free-for-all approach together with Valve's hands off attitude could've easily lead to a legal nightmare especially when ripped content from other games is involved - making valve and Bethesda potential targets for legal action because they're earning money with it. Didn't help that some people on the steam staff thought it was a good idea to censor the forums, either.

 

The whole deal was a mess and poorly executed which was why it was shut down so fast. The 'we've listened to your feedback and decided against it' is a nice PR move but I doubt that this was the real reason the whole thing went down the drain as quickly as it did. But even if valve caved in to the demands of the angry mob, it was their choice, nobody forced them to do it. Nobody involved had any actual authority to dictate what valve and Bethesda could or couldn't do. Customers being unhappy and voicing their opinion is part of the free market and the parties involved decided voluntarily that it wasn't worth it.

 

Why do you think Bethesda made the CC work the way it does? It's a closed system, an invitation only club and they have full control over what modders get to make some money with their mod and what gets put on sale.

[35000jiha]

9 hours ago, CPU said:

Depends on the commission.

 

A commission is a contract. Somebody pays somebody else for a service.

Inside the "contract" is defined if the work can be re-used or not. And usually work for private use costs more.

 

 

10 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

What's wrong with that? the global company i work for does exactly the same thing, a client pays for a development to the warehouse management system which we do but its still our system so we reserve the right to let any other client use that same development once it has been put into the core build

 

So how by commissioning a mod (and without pre-stating it) do you get exclusive access to it?

 

I think 27X is alluding to the fact that these 'commissions' are almost exclusively stolen work in the first place - Are there *any* skyrim patreon's out there involving 3d assets and textures which were actually created by the person who is getting the money?  I don't think so.  Later on I'm going to be alerting artists  who sell their stuff via DAZ 3D and Renderosity about a few of these people.

And their other sources, a few PM's to the most prolific XNA porters and the Beth games outfit pipeline might tighten up a bit if the original rippers paywall aswell not to mention those who write the unpack and model import scripts.

[dagobaking]

2 hours ago, Halstrom said:

It amounts to shutting down any site that sells mods in any way even if its donations and that is removing freedom of a free market telling Steam and Beth what they can and can't do.

True. It is apparently believed by some that the status quo is just as good as a world full of devs can do. How long was the wait for an SKSE for SkyrimSE? Will one ever be made for VR? With the downloads those mods get, there would be 2-3 extenders for each within a month of release if people chipped in 50 cents per. How many abandoned, popular mods are there? Those would all probably still be alive, transferred to new games and/or improved way beyond where they were left... for pennies.

[Halstrom]

1 hour ago, GrimReaper said:

Why do you think Bethesda made the CC work the way it does? It's a closed system, an invitation only club and they have full control over what modders get to make some money with their mod and what gets put on sale.

The Steams 75/25 split was their financial decision, it didn't violate anyone's rights, if it failed financially due to being expensive that's their corporate mistake. If people didn't want to upload their mods they didn't have to, but the if they did, the choice was taken from them.

And CC is not different, they still take a cut, and may increase their cut a lot when it becomes popular. And if they want to restrict what's uploaded that's their choice, just as Nexus and any other mod site does.

[GrimReaper]

23 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

True. It is apparently believed by some that the status quo is just as good as a world full of devs can do. How long was the wait for an SKSE for SkyrimSE? Will one ever be made for VR? With the downloads those mods get, there would be 2-3 extenders for each within a month of release if people chipped in 50 cents per. How many abandoned, popular mods are there? Those would all probably still be alive, transferred to new games and/or improved way beyond where they were left... for pennies.

And it is believed by some that by simply throwing money at everything, everything will get better but otherwise stay the same. Regarding the script extender here's an article about SKSE and donations: https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/09/heres-why-the-skse-64-bit-team-wont-accept-donations-or-create-a-patreon/39423/

 

[GrimReaper]

3 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

The Steams 75/25 split was their financial decision, it didn't violate anyone's rights, if it failed financially due to being expensive that's their corporate mistake. If people didn't want to upload their mods they didn't have to, but the if they did, the choice was taken from them.

And CC is not different, they still take a cut, and may increase their cut a lot when it becomes popular. And if they want to restrict what's uploaded that's their choice, just as Nexus and any other mod site does.

Taking down the paid mods on steam also didn't violate anyone's rights so I'm not sure what your point is because you're clearly against that happening. Steam has no obligation whatsoever in that regard. They cut off the people wanting to sell their mods because they thought it wasn't worth it which is perfectly reasonable because their business = their rules.

 

Bethesda doesn't take a cut from CC sales, they take everything. They pay modders a fixed amount of money and keep all the revenue that mod generates for themselves.

[Halstrom]

21 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Taking down the paid mods on steam also didn't violate anyone's rights so I'm not sure what your point is because you're clearly against that happening. Steam has no obligation whatsoever in that regard. They cut off the people wanting to sell their mods because they thought it wasn't worth it which is perfectly reasonable because their business = their rules.

 

Bethesda doesn't take a cut from CC sales, they take everything. They pay modders a fixed amount of money and keep all the revenue that mod generates for themselves.

Bullcrap, Steam was shutdown due to the outrage poured on it by the user community, not because it wasn't financially viable.
Well there you go with the CC, good or bad they are offering it and it wasn't shut down by the "want it all for free" brigade for some strange reason. Seems like a worse idea to me, because if someone weasels their way in with false credentials uploading a mod containing pirated content then they have their money and have run. Where at least on sales commission they only earn what they sell before being caught. The main beef I have with CC is it keeps causing updates to my Fallout Game for some silly mods I have no interest in. I've never seen anything on CC I really wanted anyway.

[GrimReaper]

3 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

Bullcrap, Steam was shutdown due to the outrage poured on it by the user community, not because it wasn't financially viable.
Well there you go with the CC, good or bad they are offering it and it wasn't shut down by the "want it all for free" brigade for some strange reason. Seems like a worse idea to me, because if someone weasels their way in with false credentials uploading a mod containing pirated content then they have their money and have run. Where at least on sales commission they only earn what they sell before being caught. The main beef I have with CC is it keeps causing updates to my Fallout Game for some silly mods I have no interest in. I've never seen anything on CC I really wanted anyway.

Complaining customers might very well have an impact on future sales. The bad publicity wasn't worth the additional revenue generated through the sale of mods - at least in the eyes of valve - so they shut it down, it really is as simple as that. You can't force someone to do something through complaining. They received the feedback and acted upon it but they did so voluntarily. You can't really blame the customer for complaining about something, blame valve for listening to feedback you don't agree with.

 

Pretty sure the CC doesn't work like that. Modders who work for Bethesda are handpicked, sign a contract and are paid on a per mod basis. Pretty sure they have all the data they need to make sure people don't get the wrong ideas.

[dagobaking]

34 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

And it is believed by some that by simply throwing money at everything, everything will get better but otherwise stay the same. Regarding the script extender here's an article about SKSE and donations: https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/09/heres-why-the-skse-64-bit-team-wont-accept-donations-or-create-a-patreon/39423/

 

Throwing money at broken hearts usually wont work. But, throwing money at a problem that requires work to solve? I'm afraid that there is a mountain of evidence supporting that.

 

The iPhone wasnt brought to market with pushes of like buttons and "hey great job guys, love your free phone!"

 

Thank you for the link with old quotes. I read those way back when they were written. Did Behippo come back? It took so long that I felt it was no longer worth an investment into that game because of new releases coming up. Moved on.

 

I think the article has a different context than this discussion. They are focused on why those devs couldnt go faster with money. In our context, many other developers would not have the same contract obstacles. I am advocating for a change in ethics that would lead to a sanctioned market for this kind of thing. Something that has so far not existed. If it did, none of the problems the article brings up would be relevant.

[GrimReaper]

6 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Throwing money at broken hearts usually wont work. But, throwing money at a problem that requires work to solve? I'm afraid that there is a mountain of evidence supporting that.

 

The iPhone wasnt brought to market with pushes of like buttons and "hey great job guys, love your free phone!"

 

Thank you for the link with old quotes. I read those way back when they were written. Did Behippo come back? It took so long that I felt it was no longer worth an investment into that game because of new releases coming up. Moved on.

 

I think the article has a different context than this discussion. They are focused on why those devs couldnt go faster with money. In our context, many other developers would not have the same contract obstacles. I am advocating for a change in ethics that would lead to a sanctioned market for this kind of thing. Something that has so far not existed. If it did, none of the problems the article brings up would be relevant.

I think the point is that you'd have to be some kind of computer wizard and master of the arcane arts of coding to be able to pull something like the script extender off. Those people are likely in high demand and not interested in something as fleeting as modding unless they have a passion for it. I mean sure, if the whole industry would change over night to be something better than it currently is, sure, that might work, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

I also don't think that Apple got so successful because they're so fair, ethical and open-minded.

[dagobaking]

3 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

I think the point is that you'd have to be some kind of computer wizard and master of the arcane arts of coding to be able to pull something like the script extender off. Those people are likely in high demand and not interested in something as fleeting as modding unless they have a passion for it. I mean sure, if the whole industry would change over night to be something better than it currently is, sure, that might work, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

I also don't think that Apple got so successful because they're so fair, ethical and open-minded.

Making the extender is not that arcane. What is arcane is one of the many people who can do it justifying the time it takes for free. You wrote it yourself. They are in demand, by people who will pay for their time. This backs up the point I've made all along. Pay modders for that work and someone else gets to be the one who feels they are in too much demand to help.

 

Steam isnt really that far off on this. They already have paid mods. They just take too much to make it viable. The app store does slightly well taking 30 percent instead of 75. If the community changed their message from "we only want free work" to "we want a more fair pay like the app store" I believe there is a very good chance that they would do it.

 

Apple is indeed a corrupt company. I would never buy any of their products. The point though is that everything they built was accomplished by throwing money at people so that they would design and build things.

[GrimReaper]

22 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Making the extender is not that arcane. What is arcane is one of the many people who can do it justifying the time it takes for free. You wrote it yourself. They are in demand, by people who will pay for their time. This backs up the point I've made all along. Pay modders for that work and someone else gets to be the one who feels they are in too much demand to help.

 

Steam isnt really that far off on this. They already have paid mods. They just take too much to make it viable. The app store does slightly well taking 30 percent instead of 75. If the community changed their message from "we only want free work" to "we want a more fair pay like the app store" I believe there is a very good chance that they would do it.

 

Apple is indeed a corrupt company. I would never buy any of their products. The point though is that everything they built was accomplished by throwing money at people so that they would design and build things.

Look, it's not like I don't see your point, it's just that I think further than the immediate boost of motivation injected into the modding community via money. I see the modding community degenerating to the point where many other markets already are, where money is the one and only thing that matters and delivering a product is more or less seen as a necessary evil. I mean, look at the gaming industry. Loot boxes, microtransactions, pre-order bonuses, dozens of special editions for a single game etc.

 

They all help in making more and more money but they seemingly don't help in making better games. I don't see why modding would be any different.

[dankmemesxd]

2 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Look, it's not like I don't see your point, it's just that I think further than the immediate boost of motivation injected into the modding community via money. I see the modding community degenerating to the point where many other markets already are, where money is the one and only thing that matters and delivering a product is more or less seen as a necessary evil. I mean, look at the gaming industry. Loot boxes, microtransactions, pre-order bonuses, dozens of special editions for a single game etc.

 

They all help in making more and more money but they seemingly don't help in making better games. I don't see why modding would be any different.

See it this way, you are passionate about something and you really enjoy doing it. So you do it, you get more and more sucked into it to the point where it takes majority of your time. Since you do it a lot and have passion for it, lets consider you are good at it and deliver something good (here are bugfree mods that bring something cool into a game, quest mods etc) and then you see that your mods have 1000 of downloads. So you might think, hey if everyone or a decent % of them paid 1 dollar for my mod or supported me for it, I can do it full time and stop working at my old job. And if you do it fulltime, your mods get bigger,better = more "fans" to support you. 

 

You get what I am saying? If people will start to support modders, they could fulfill themselves in their life, just like guys who make youtube videos. 

 

To remind, I am not for paid walled mods, because if 200 mods were to be paywalled, it would be 200 bucks for one man. If all mods costed 1 dollar each. But models like Komotor has, the early access + some bonuses for the support is just perfect for the modding scene.

 

 

[KoolHndLuke]

It's really a moot point, isn't it? Mod authors are going to do what they are going to do, period. People will love the mods they get for free and will have the choice to pay for mods or not as well. I seriously doubt that most mod authors are going to paywall their mods over night- it is something that only time will tell. I see both points of view in this and understand.

 

In the end, if more mod authors move to paywall content, then it is the community of users that can blame themselves for not supporting or donating freely when they had the chance. But, as paying customers, I would expect them to be even more unreasonable about requests and or changes to mods than they are right now some times. Perhaps that is just to be expected though.

[dagobaking]

10 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Look, it's not like I don't see your point, it's just that I think further than the immediate boost of motivation injected into the modding community via money. I see the modding community degenerating to the point where many other markets already are, where money is the one and only thing that matters and delivering a product is more or less seen as a necessary evil. I mean, look at the gaming industry. Loot boxes, microtransactions, pre-order bonuses, dozens of special editions for a single game etc.

 

They all help in making more and more money but they seemingly don't help in making better games. I don't see why modding would be any different.

I cant blame anyone for not trusting the studios. I agree that there are 101 ways that it could be implemented wrong.

 

But, in the end, I think they want to do things that customers like. There just isnt a very unified message about what that is on this aspect. A well done market system should have checks and options that prevent authors from getting away with bad behavior themselves.

5 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

It's really a moot point, isn't it? Mod authors are going to do what they are going to do, period. People will love the mods they get for free and will have the choice to pay for mods or not as well. I seriously doubt that most mod authors are going to paywall their mods over night- it is something that only time will tell. I see both points of view in this and understand.

 

In the end, if more mod authors move to paywall content, then it is the community of users that can blame themselves for not supporting or donating freely when they had the chance. But, as paying customers, I would expect them to be even more unreasonable about requests and or changes to mods than they are right now some times. Perhaps that is just to be expected though.

I think that is a fair tradeoff many authors would make.

 

I dont think its moot right now because there isnt a clear market system in place and the community is divided. Probably will take a company stepping forward and proposing something new. A steam pay mod round 2. Or, maybe Nexus has the foothold to negotiate something with Zenimax.

[pinky6225]

11 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Look, it's not like I don't see your point, it's just that I think further than the immediate boost of motivation injected into the modding community via money. I see the modding community degenerating to the point where many other markets already are, where money is the one and only thing that matters and delivering a product is more or less seen as a necessary evil. I mean, look at the gaming industry. Loot boxes, microtransactions, pre-order bonuses, dozens of special editions for a single game etc.

 

They all help in making more and more money but they seemingly don't help in making better games. I don't see why modding would be any different.

When i first started playing computer games it was very niche and a tiny market but the world wide gaming market is now bigger than the film and music industries so rather than their being one shelf in a stationary store that has PC games i'm now spoiled for choice

 

Not to mention that many a game use to be buggy and as their was no internet any sort of after sale support didnt exist (i'm going to pretend that it didnt also involve making boot discs so you had the correct memory allocation to get the damn thing to run, a game running out of the box straight after installation was a novelty in those days)

 

When was this golden age of gaming that didnt have all the above or "Loot boxes, microtransactions, pre-order bonuses, dozens of special editions for a single game"

 

The best thing that ever happened to the PC gaming market was it becoming a proper market

[GrimReaper]

3 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

When i first started playing computer games it was very niche and a tiny market but the world wide gaming market is now bigger than the film and music industries so rather than their being one shelf in a stationary store that has PC games i'm now spoiled for choice

 

Not to mention that many a game use to be buggy and as their was no internet any sort of after sale support didnt exist (i'm going to pretend that it didnt also involve making boot discs so you had the correct memory allocation to get the damn thing to run, a game running out of the box straight after installation was a novelty in those days)

 

When was this golden age of gaming that didnt have all the above or "Loot boxes, microtransactions, pre-order bonuses, dozens of special editions for a single game"

 

The best thing that ever happened to the PC gaming market was it becoming a proper market

[Guest]

Market is not too bad. I made company to fail and other to become strong.

Of course, there are negative stuff, like monopolies. For how long Microsoft was a show stopper to free development? All Ballmer era. But with Nardella now it is better.

How long we fear for GIFs because of a patent? It went away (but after many years.)

 

What about viagra? Now that the patent is expired it is way cheaper.

 

What is that? Market.

And games are just a type of entertainment company. So regulated by market.

 

Some bad examples: Bethesda, they try to squeeze a lemon already dry. Or EA squeezing money with stupid DLCs and tool boxes.

Some good examples: Snapshot, re-founded company from the remaining of the company that made Xcom and Xcom-2, Projekt Red, but also 2K.

 

Bof, probably I should move my comment in the Rant thread alone.

[pinky6225]

20 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Ah i take it i'm safe to assume that by image rather than a time period being given it means that the nirvana of gaming never actually existed

 

Basing an opinion on something (which is your right if you like as its your opinion) on something that never existed seems a little bit foolish to me

 

Spoiler

To carry on the warhammer 40k theme "Idiocy for the idiot throne*"

 

* no offence intended

 

[GrimReaper]

4 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

Ah i take it i'm safe to assume that by image rather than a time period being given it means that the nirvana of gaming never actually existed

 

Basing an opinion on something (which is your right if you like as its your opinion) on something that never existed seems a little bit foolish to me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

To carry on the warhammer 40k theme "Idiocy for the idiot throne*"

 

* no offence intended

 

Nah I legit thought you were baiting here.

[Guest]

"Baiting" is not good.

So, @pinky6225 avoid.

 

But because no solid evidences, let continue to discuss this thread about paywalls. (I like it. And give us a good feedback on the future rules for the site among paywalled mods.)

[27X]

6 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

Ah i take it i'm safe to assume that by image rather than a time period being given it means that the nirvana of gaming never actually existed

 

Basing an opinion on something (which is your right if you like as its your opinion) on something that never existed seems a little bit foolish to me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

To carry on the warhammer 40k theme "Idiocy for the idiot throne*"

 

* no offence intended

 

 

Context is king. Context is always king. People are content to pay now because they can. When they become unable to, things will change... hard.

 

As for nostalgia, I'm immune to it, so I don't care when this period was or it or will be. But I do know that devs and modders alike have become quite brazen in their surety that there will always been flowing water and lush gardens for them to pluck both memberberries and moneyberries from, and that simply isn't the case. Ten years ago cable was an inviolate juggernaut untouchable by the internet because of its literally do not take no for an answer hard sell and fifteen years ago movies were going to be the social pillar upon which upon even poor countries would hang their hat thanks to commsats and international telecom cabling.

 

And here we are now, and the internet is being locked down and monetized so that the same companies that monopolized those can monopolize this bandwidth too as their old shit dies by degrees.

 

What does that have to do with modding?  Quite a bit actually, as any DIY filmmaker/youtuber or bootlegger could tell you. Or musician.

 

Remember when the internet was going to make music for everyone and you could remix anything at any time and it would be a super explosion of great new stuff? Wired and Rolling Stone and Time were all over it, showcasing this brave new frontier that would endlessly expand and everybody could get their own personalized soundtrack and share it virtually free. That was just five years ago. Sound familiar?

 

Flash forward to now and not only are the same companies still in charge, but they all charge more than they ever have while sporting shrinking catalogs of artists who remain popular for less and less amounts of time so they get paid less, while not having to make physical copies anymore, with new headmistress Apple cracking the whip and laughing all the way to the bank at idiots complaining about not having a good enough laptop to play this one game while buying $1100 iphones that won't allow any game on it that Apple doesn't have a piece of. (and sure as hell no mods)

 

This "just works" xanadu your premise hangs on never existed either, and it doesn't exist now as the largest section of any game based website is invariably the "why doesn't this work right" section.

[GrimReaper]

Personally I'd consider the late 90's - early-mid 2000 the "golden era" of PC gaming. Technology was streamlined enough that you didn't need to tweak your setup for each game you wanted to play and the industry was growing yet still had games as the priority. Half-Life, Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, Morrowind, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, Diablo 2, Fallout, etc., the list goes on and on. And while games had bugs, developers generally had to make sure the game worked out of the box because you couldn't hand in half the game after release via a 20gb day one patch.

 

I mean, if you do enjoy Assassin's Far Watch Creed Dogs Cry: Electric Boogaloo Edition be my guest, but the market today is generally oversaturated with a grey paste that lacks any flavor or distinguishable features. Sometimes I get the impression that people playing video games today aren't actually looking to play games but rather looking for things to simply spend money on.