Mods and Money!?

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, melovepengy said:

...

17 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

...

That is just wrong buddy.

 

Modders like me have a very good job, earn good money, and do mods for free. Personally, just personally, then only thing I wish back is a greeting.

but other people do not have such good situation, and some of them do mods as a profession.

And, keep in mind, and think about it, and if it not clear just PM me, they publish most of their work for free.

 

Supporting people that struggle but keep you enjoying a game should be a given.

 

You don't want to suppport, fine. You still access whatever is free on LoversLab (and similar sites.) But you get Advertisments, and probably a month old version of the mod.

 

"Yeeeaahhh, I use an AdBlock!"

Thank you guy, for the AdBlock. Keep in mind that we pay real money, from our pockets, to have you to use this site. (Note from moderator: Advertisements are what are keeping this site alive.)

Is that bad? Then just delete your account. I will be really glad to delete it.

 

Oh. Just, by the way, you are using dialecting about a guy that is giving us some dollars to keep this site live.

And you are not.

 

[27X]

On 6/27/2018 at 11:44 PM, Halstrom said:

Yep there we go, by cheapskate logic, unless an animator recreates all these assets and tools they have to spend hundreds of hours learning those tools and making animations for users for free or they are insulted as being super shady as fuck...…
I doubt there are ANY game modders in the world with the time and skills to do all of the above to create a basic sex animation mod. ant then people want Pregnancy etc...…….
How much is a mod going to cost if someone making a mod has to add the respective creators charges for all of these into every animation he makes? Mods will cost more than the original game.
Anyone who doesn't think their time is worth money should stop asking for more animations and create their own if they demand them for free

 

This internment work camp where modders are 100% forced to make whatever anyone at any time asks of them sounds dreamy as hell.

 

Got a link?

[Yuni]

29 minutes ago, CPU said:

...

 

Just throwing in my two cents here.

 

When I first bought skyrim, 300 hours of playtime.

Now? 6+ years later?
3,000+ hours. Over ten times the original playtime, because of all the mods here from Loverslab.
From the porn mods (call me a perv if you will, but that will always be part of being an adult), to the wacky fun, to the serious weapon mods, Skyrim would have been long dead without mods, to me... and I didn't have to pay for any specific mod.

But ya know what? I did pay for some of them. Because I could. Because I enjoyed what they made. I don't complain when they release them late to help pay for their own lives. Making this stuff is slow and time consuming, and I do enjoy when my requests are fulfilled, but I don't ever demand them to be fulfilled or expect them to be. I've been in a few LL-related patreons before.

 

As a compsci major, mods will always fascinate me. From the community around them, to how to make them, to personally tweaking them to make my own special experience. I give when I can, I don't when I can't, and the only adblock I use on this website is on my school laptop, because loud porn ads would get me in trouble on-campus. ^^;; But at home, it's whitelisted.

Any mod that's made by a modder is their own intellectual property, with those exceptions specifically put forth by use of assets and/or the terms of service with Bethesda. If they don't want to release it for free, they don't have to. If you don't like it, use another mod.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, 27X said:

 

This internment work camp where modders are 100% forced to make whatever anyone at any time asks of them sounds dreamy as hell.

 

Got a link?

That is not the case. In the "supporter" business, if you don't like (anymore), then you don't pledge anymore.

In case you like you support (if you can) and get something more (early delivery? More contents? Something made on your request? Just Something...)

 

Is a modder forced to do something for you? Bof. There are a few modders I pay monthly a fucking high amount of money, and all of them, when I ask something (usually simple) they do quickly what I ask.

But I ask once or twice a year. But I pledge always top money.

But that are some specific cases. I pay money because I know the authors will do something great for our community.

 

If you give just a dollar, then just get the "advantage" stuff.

I do that with about 50 people,. (And it is not a dollar it is 5. (And 5x50 is 250 buck a month I give just to support the modding community (the best talents))

 

Again, you pay mostly if you want to support. On LLab, we do force that whoever puts a paywall and uses LLab as show case gets out.

But we do support people giving extra stuff behind a paywall and giving some contents for free.

[GrimReaper]

1 hour ago, CPU said:

That is just wrong buddy.

 

Modders like me have a very good job, earn good money, and do mods for free. Personally, just personally, then only thing I wish back is a greeting.

but other people do not have such good situation, and some of them do mods as a profession.

And, keep in mind, and think about it, and if it not clear just PM me, they publish most of their work for free.

 

Supporting people that struggle but keep you enjoying a game should be a given.

 

You don't want to suppport, fine. You still access whatever is free on LoversLab (and similar sites.) But you get Advertisments, and probably a month old version of the mod.

 

"Yeeeaahhh, I use an AdBlock!"

Thank you guy, for the AdBlock. Keep in mind that we pay real money, from our pockets, to have you to use this site. (Note from moderator: Advertisements are what are keeping this site alive.)

Is that bad? Then just delete your account. I will be really glad to delete it.

 

Oh. Just, by the way, you are using dialecting about a guy that is giving us some dollars to keep this site live.

And you are not.

 

Neither do I know why you quoted me nor do I really like (or understand, honestly) the threatening undertone. If you don't want non-supporters to have a discussion with supporters I suggest opening up a supporter-only section on the forum.

[jfraser]

Modding takes a ton of time and effort. As CPU said, i never charged for my mods nor would I because I just did them for fun. But I also do not begrudge someone else who has a great idea and wants to find a way to monetize it. If their work is good enough that people will willingly shell out cash for it, more power to them. That said, I would certainly expect a return on my investment. The other reason I would never charge for my mods is that I wouldn't have time to live up to the expectations that getting paid would bring.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Neither do I know why you quoted me nor do I really like (or understand, honestly) the threatening undertone. If you don't want non-supporters to have a discussion with supporters I suggest opening up a supporter-only section on the forum.

I suggest to let the acces to the adult section to supporters only.. ?

[GrimReaper]

2 minutes ago, komotor said:

I suggest to let the acces to the adult section to supporters only.. ?

Which wouldn't help in this case because this thread here is in the general discussion forum

[jfraser]

20 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Which wouldn't help in this case because this thread here is in the general discussion forum

I think he was being funny.

 

I also don't think CPU was being intentionally rude - I think there is a little bit of confusion about intended statements due to language constraints.

 

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Which wouldn't help in this case because this thread here is in the general discussion forum

No, but it will be fun to see you (and some others) complain that you can not access the adult section. ?

18 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

Well, that would give Ashal about 3,429 more donations for the site. (Using WW's current supporters) https://www.patreon.com/wickedwoohoo instead of the paltry 365 he receives now https://www.patreon.com/loverslab/overview Look at those numbers GR, $13,867 PER MONTH! (That is $166,404 per year, more than most professors with PHDs make) The dude is making bank and people are paying for it! Gopher who makes video tutorials makes pretty good "pocket change" as well: https://www.patreon.com/Gopher/overview 936 support his efforts. Most consider The Sims 3 to be a mostly "dead" game, yet Oniki Kay still manages to get 689 supporters: https://www.patreon.com/onikikay Not too shabby if you ask me. 

Absolutely, I say that by "laughing" but it makes a lot of sense.
With only $ 1 access even if only a quarter of users support it, LL will be financially fully autonomous, largely.
LL will receive more than now, it's a fact.
Only with $1 from LOT of people, things can move and there are LOT of people on LL

With adblockers it limits the income of LL, so I think it would be a solution.

[GrimReaper]

27 minutes ago, jfraser said:

I think he was being funny.

 

I also don't think CPU was being intentionally rude - I think there is a little bit of confusion about intended statements due to language constraints.

 

 

I don't really think that's the case. If I had to guess it's about schadenfreude at the thought that all those dirty non-supporters aren't able to access the very reason LL was created in the first place.

 

Regarding CPU's intention, I don't know. But I consider statements like "Then just delete your account. I will be really glad to delete it." or the hint that I as a non-supporter is discussing a topic with a supporter makes things pretty clear imo. But maybe you're right, dunno. Would be sad to see LL go down that road because I've been here since the very beginning. Earlier than that, even. When what was then the core of LL was over at wolflore and then hongfire.

[DoctaSax]

There's quite a bit of talking at cross purposes here - let's try not to assume the worst.

[27X]

2 hours ago, CPU said:

That is not the case. In the "supporter" business, if you don't like (anymore), then you don't pledge anymore.

In case you like you support (if you can) and get something more (early delivery? More contents? Something made on your request? Just Something...)

 

Is a modder forced to do something for you? Bof. There are a few modders I pay monthly a fucking high amount of money, and all of them, when I ask something (usually simple) they do quickly what I ask.

But I ask once or twice a year. But I pledge always top money.

 

Again, you pay mostly if you want to support. On LLab, we do force that whoever puts a paywall and uses LLab as show case gets out.

 

 

Except that's not even kind of what Halstrom is suggesting. He's suggesting it only ever happens in absolutes on both ends of the spectrum, and has been this entire time, when the real world is rather different.

 

It's the modder's choice first and foremost, back by whatever system the modders chooses to accept as financial backing. What Halstrom is ignoring the very thing you cite as an example, You ask for specifics, and get them, because you have a relationship with said modders. You know better than most none of that is owed, and you're ignoring whether or not both parties are being genuine in their intentions. Two of the highest paid skyrim porters on patreon routinely make people pay for private commission content and then distribute it again on QQbang paid content circles.

 

In a fluffy world of unicorns farting rainbows everyone gets along great and always gets a fair price for exactly the wanted content they asked for, meanwhile in reality three of the top paid custom body people are literally getting paid not only for work they didn't do initially, they're getting paid for getting other people to improve their existing mods for free, and they aren't passing that money to the people that actually made most of their content, which actually brings this statement up

 

On LLab, we do force that whoever puts a paywall and uses LLab as show case gets out.

 

Cause there's at least those same above people in the skyrim section blatantly ignoring this rule including the largest thread in the adult section, and as Bazinga pointed out like 8 months ago, people in the Sims section have been doing it for quite a while as well.

 

Then there's the other side of that relationship where what exactly constitutes 'asking' and when are you entitled to get it? What's fair. Probably a pretty easy answer, right? Except all that drama stuff with YuiH and GTX and a couple of other incidents here, one literally last week here where people refuse to take 'no' for an answer, or get something and then continually demand updates and changes despite being just one of many financial contributors, or even turn around and start charging money of their own for shit they commissioned like several pornhub "contributors", as funnybiz and komotor could tell you.

 

There's no black and white digital solution.

[Halstrom]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

 

Except that's not even kind of what Halstrom is suggesting. He's suggesting it only ever happens in absolutes on both ends of the spectrum, and has been this entire time, when the real world is rather different.

 

It's the modder's choice first and foremost, back by whatever system the modders chooses to accept as financial backing. What Halstrom is ignoring the very thing you cite as an example, You ask for specifics, and get them, because you have a relationship with said modders. You know better than most none of that is owed, and you're ignoring whether or not both parties are being genuine in their intentions. Two of the highest paid skyrim porters on patreon routinely make people pay for private commission content and then distribute it again on QQbang paid content circles.

 

There's no black and white digital solution.

But its not the modders choice at all when people campaign to shut down sites giving them the option to paywall is it or telling them they have no right to charge for hundreds of hours work just because it uses CBBE/F4SE or they used the FO4Edit or Creation Kit to make the mod?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

I don't really think that's the case. If I had to guess it's about schadenfreude at the thought that all those dirty non-supporters aren't able to access the very reason LL was created in the first place.

 

Regarding CPU's intention, I don't know. But I consider statements like "Then just delete your account. I will be really glad to delete it." or the hint that I as a non-supporter is discussing a topic with a supporter makes things pretty clear imo. But maybe you're right, dunno. Would be sad to see LL go down that road because I've been here since the very beginning. Earlier than that, even. When what was then the core of LL was over at wolflore and then hongfire.

No, was not my intention.

 

I do support people that do not support back. And I am not asking everybody to pay.

Not my willing.

 

The sentence is for who produces drama. Are you (generic you) a drama lover? Then go away.

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, 27X said:

 

Except that's not even kind of what Halstrom is suggesting. He's suggesting it only ever happens in absolutes on both ends of the spectrum, and has been this entire time, when the real world is rather different.

 

It's the modder's choice first and foremost, back by whatever system the modders chooses to accept as financial backing. What Halstrom is ignoring the very thing you cite as an example, You ask for specifics, and get them, because you have a relationship with said modders. You know better than most none of that is owed, and you're ignoring whether or not both parties are being genuine in their intentions. Two of the highest paid skyrim porters on patreon routinely make people pay for private commission content and then distribute it again on QQbang paid content circles.

 

In a fluffy world of unicorns farting rainbows everyone gets along great and always gets a fair price for exactly the wanted content they asked for, meanwhile in reality three of the top paid custom body people are literally getting paid not only for work they didn't do initially, they're getting paid for getting other people to improve their existing mods for free, and they aren't passing that money to the people that actually made most of their content, which actually brings this statement up

 

On LLab, we do force that whoever puts a paywall and uses LLab as show case gets out.

 

Cause there's at least those same above people in the skyrim section blatantly ignoring this rule including the largest thread in the adult section, and as Bazinga pointed out like 8 months ago, people in the Sims section have been doing it for quite a while as well.

 

Then there's the other side of that relationship where what exactly constitutes 'asking' and when are you entitled to get it? What's fair. Probably a pretty easy answer, right? Except all that drama stuff with YuiH and GTX and a couple of other incidents here, one literally last week here where people refuse to take 'no' for an answer, or get something and then continually demand updates and changes despite being just one of many financial contributors, or even turn around and start charging money of their own for shit they commissioned like several pornhub "contributors", as funnybiz and komotor could tell you.

 

There's no black and white digital solution.

I know a lot of modders, I talk with a lot of modders, I do what I do under their nose, and I'm on the discord server between guys like ashal, ousnius, groovman, and many others ..
Apart from some "prehistoric" here, I get along with the modders even if from the point of view of some here, "I steal" their stuff .. This is not the case ..

 

I'm still waiting for you to distribute your mods and skills that you boast very often.
You do not do it maybe for reasons that I can understand but these same reasons also push me to not give everything for free ..
And I said before the world is not free, the world evolves whether you like it or not, so like many we are still fair to continue to give our stuff ..

 

Stay all in your time bubble, but the past is the past.
Hell shit, you know that even the Vatican has adapted and modernizing over the time..
The only ones that do not change are the extremists .. And we see how they are and the result of insensate obstinacy to impose things from another era ..

 

The rules of LL must also evolve to face reality.
Keep modders, maintain cohesion also for the workers ..
Because it is not many who only criticize who will share their things or even build anything ..
So people can criticize, but sweep in front of your front door, share your hard work with others then we'll talk again.

 

You do not see some "modders" that just pump and charge for content that they have only stolen here anyway ..
The best known ones who do stuff around body and / or clothes and who abuse, are not allowed to put their links here ..
Besides, the original authors do not want it either and their requests are respected.
It still does not prevent some of them from generating more money than me who realizes my own content ..

And it's not because they are not and do not promote their stuff on loverslab that prevent them to have a lot or even more people...

With modern rules, we can hope to see things more just.

 

Some are honest, do it professionally, still remain reasonable and still share for free.
That's why I do not have any problem with the staff of Loverslab, they have their eyes open too and know how to differentiate between people, whether they are honest or not.
And believe me with the number of complaints toward me, the staff know very well what I do..
And like me they must surely realize how many users are more than egoistic. Those same people who have the nerve to treat us as egoists. It's the world upside down for some ..

I wonder how do some people to live with their logic..
What to expect from these people? Honestly.. I'l tell you.. Nothing!!
 

Anyway, There are the anti and the pros, but since our universe rejects the anti-matter...
At this moment there are collisions, and out of these explosions it will remain the matter as will the universal rule of our dimension.

I let you meditate...

[pinky6225]

12 hours ago, 27X said:

Two of the highest paid skyrim porters on patreon routinely make people pay for private commission content and then distribute it again on QQbang paid content circles.

What's wrong with that? the global company i work for does exactly the same thing, a client pays for a development to the warehouse management system which we do but its still our system so we reserve the right to let any other client use that same development once it has been put into the core build

 

So how by commissioning a mod (and without pre-stating it) do you get exclusive access to it?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

What's wrong with that? the global company i work for does exactly the same thing, a client pays for a development to the warehouse management system which we do but its still our system so we reserve the right to let any other client use that same development once it has been put into the core build

 

So how by commissioning a mod (and without pre-stating it) do you get exclusive access to it?

Depends on the commission.

 

A commission is a contract. Somebody pays somebody else for a service.

Inside the "contract" is defined if the work can be re-used or not. And usually work for private use costs more.

[pinky6225]

10 minutes ago, CPU said:

Depends on the commission.

 

A commission is a contract. Somebody pays somebody else for a service.

Inside the "contract" is defined if the work can be re-used or not. And usually work for private use costs more.

Right i get that but i dont get how exclusivity is an assumed given instead of a stated requirement, if those peeps paid for exclusive use then fine i get his point but if they did not and just ran across a mod that looked very similar/the same as something they commissioned but they hadn't actually stated they wanted exclusively then i dont understand how you could find the modders at fault for merely doing something that i would think is standard across industries (definately is for the company i work for in the logistics industry)

[27X]

4 hours ago, komotor said:

past is the past.

Ironic using this a pretext because the real money is moving to Blender/Maya and full deferred rendering CG workups, while using a six year old game as your primary content platform. If Bethesda was more concerned with hitting those Zenimax defined expectations with yearly output, this would be a very different conversation.

 

4 hours ago, komotor said:

still waiting

And you'll continue to wait because this has all happened before a decade ago with the AvP2, Sims2 and Source modding communities->Naughty Machinima/furaffinity/deviantart/paypal and I learned my lessons then, and now isn't any different than then other than the names and the original company itself getting in on the money train, so when you say past, you're a lot more correct than you realize, just not the way you intended.

 

13 hours ago, Halstrom said:

eople campaign to shut down sites

What people. You and dagobaking and two others keep bringing all this theoretical shit to the table like it's an actual talking point. Meanwhile the Sims, 2nd Life and SFM nonoriginal 100% other people's stuff money train continues to choochoo its way down the tracks right now as we speak, meanwhile Beth is looking with Zenimax at how to monetize Starfield and TES VI as we speak.

[GrimReaper]

13 hours ago, Halstrom said:

But its not the modders choice at all when people campaign to shut down sites giving them the option to paywall is it or telling them they have no right to charge for hundreds of hours work just because it uses CBBE/F4SE or they used the FO4Edit or Creation Kit to make the mod?

Where's that campaign? People are arguing about different viewpoints. If you perceive people disagreeing with you about something as a campaign against you or whatever you stand for it's time to maybe take a walk or something.

 

7 hours ago, CPU said:

No, was not my intention.

 

I do support people that do not support back. And I am not asking everybody to pay.

Not my willing.

 

The sentence is for who produces drama. Are you (generic you) a drama lover? Then go away.

 

uh, ok I guess

[DoctaSax]

9 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

Where's that campaign? People are arguing about different viewpoints. If you perceive people disagreeing with you about something as a campaign against you or whatever you stand for it's time to maybe take a walk or something.

Hal's clearly talking about what happened a couple of years ago.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, 27X said:

Ironic using this a pretext because the real money is moving to Blender/Maya and full deferred rendering CG workups, while using a six year old game as your primary content platform. If Bethesda was more concerned with hitting those Zenimax defined expectations with yearly output, this would be a very different conversation.

You often speak to others' names without knowing what they are doing either.
I continue on the games because my reputation is as a game animator who build porn and some stuff more close to what we see in rendering videos,

Moreover I'm even better placed on patreon than many who do only SFM, blender, maya or any rendering.. Even better placed than some studios....

And so even if their rendering and details are far better, There is one big thing, I have hard to say who do what If there is not a Watermark, they almost copy each on others, use the same characters as others, look the same as the others... 
Only the most original get more but even those like Lordaardvark who also build tools, convert, share and who keep SFM alive too over the time, bah look at his number of patrons,

less than some sims animators.. 

 

From my point of view the animations for games is still more promising, and there is still high potential with VR things in the future..
Users have the choice to use their own character as they wish, which they can not do in a video.

 

Beside I guess that lot of my older patrons know that I have put my hand on many things and that I can build on another platform when I want or if I need...

And a large part of them already tell me that they are ready to follow me in some others kinky adventures...
Honestly what I do on Skyrim is to please the people, not really for my pleasure...
I know very well that one day this game is going to die, but I keep my services because there is still people who want my services..

2 minutes ago, 27X said:

And you'll continue to wait because this has all happened before a decade ago with the AvP2, Sims2 and Source modding communities->Naughty Machinima/furaffinity/deviantart/paypal and I learned my lessons then, and now isn't any different than then other than the names and the original company itself getting in on the money train, so when you say past, you're a lot more correct than you realize, just not the way you intended.

As also said, things evolves...
Think how use your skills to get something over time, take opportunities...

But do not complain because that you do not want to do something than others does because they adapt themselve over the time, it's your choice..

 

Over time new kind of works and services are created while some disapear..
Or you follow the bandwagon or too bad for you..

[GrimReaper]

1 hour ago, DoctaSax said:

Hal's clearly talking about what happened a couple of years ago.

You mean the paid mods on steam? That was rejected by pretty much everyone, even the people that are advocating for paywalls now, no?

[Guest]

All debating aside, to anyone in America celebrating Independence Day, have a safe 4th of July, and to everyone else around the world, I hope you all had/having a good day