Mods and Money!?

[SexDwarf2250]

12 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

Sex mods are also responsible for a lot of game sales

 

How many, and do the executives of Zenimax have these numbers to compare to Creation Club profit?

[dagobaking]

5 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

So people that help the author fielding the stupid as fuck questions, directing the people who refuse to admit they are doing something dumb or even to follow those instructions should get paid as well? They are helping the mod author avoid frustration.

They potentially could be part of a team and get a share. I don't see why not. It would be easy to build into a market site. Nexus already has something like this built into their reward program.

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Paying for a mod is different than supporting the author wouldn't you agree. Your an author, wouldn't it be better for support... than to outright pay for access to a mod? If money is involved that is. At lest with that, you are supporting the works (all of them) of the author. You are "giving" monetary support to them not buying a product from them. I believe there is a difference, a big difference.

This is true to some degree. But, on the other hand, Steam is full of $30 early access games and people seem to accept that its a lower bar than a AAA release simply based on the label. The price doesn't seem to make everyone think it has to be bug free.

 

Also, I think it's important to keep in mind that a pay mod system would not prevent the existence of free mods. Look at the app store. Free apps may outnumber paid apps.

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I am not able to give monetary support so in the past I have given my personal support in the mod, testing, support of the mod, deflecting those demanding people. Creating tutorials and other instructional documents, and liberal praises and encouragement.. etc. Is this not also valuable? Is this not also important? To an author that is. I know it don't pay the bills but surely it is something. Hopefully valuable.

It is absolutely valuable and appreciated.

4 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Do you like the idea of a BodySlide preset "mod" getting 10,000 downloads in a week? A face preset? A weapon damage edit? A simple texture mod?

I don't think that a preset mod would get that many downloads. But, if they did, why resent it?

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 Any kind of paid modding is going to bring a flood of these kinds of mods. People are that ignorant about modding and download and endorse those like crazy. You make a really complicated quest mod and people like it, but, they report all kinds of bugs that have nothing to do with your mod, want changes made because they are paying for it, demand updates, etc. So, after awhile you say "FUCK IT!!! I'm just going to make easy mods from now on and laugh all the way to the bank.". Pretty soon, that's how most or all mod authors see things and the community is left with shit and slowly dies. Did anyone think of that?

This is solved by a rating system.

 

Nobody is going to download 50 body slide presets with 1 star. Maybe they do this once and then never again and are out a quarter?

 

The existence of fart apps that did well did not affect the quality of other apps on the app store.

 

Will there be some people trying gimmicks and one that occasionally scores for them? Yes. But, then you will also probably have 10 people trying to make the next CBBE too. Mods authors like this one probably would have stuck with it and finished the project: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/19516 . Nightasy probably would still be doing conversions for JaneBod, 300 sliders and all. I think it would be worth having to skip past 1 star mods.

 

1 hour ago, SexDwarf2250 said:

Why would throttling demand improve anything when satisfying demand is one of the motivations that many modders work for?

The improvement would be because payment would add more mod authors than we would lose. I don't think any mod authors are on the brink of quitting because 30k downloads isn't 40k.

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There's a saying, "the proof is in the pudding." If paying for mods will make things better, why is it then, when I look at the Creation Club, that I don't see a single thing that is better than the community's creations? For that matter, how is it that Bethesda can pay people full time to create things that are at least in some cases, frankly, crap compared to some modders' work, which they create and distribute for the joy of creation and sharing?

The CC is not really a market where mod authors control their products. For example, how can you judge the quality difference it results in when Bethesda makes every decision about who/what to include? The quality in that case doesn't have any connection to these being pay mods.

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Lastly, anyone on Loverslab should be especially concerned - the discussion is different for mature content. All this content here could never exist in any sort of official connection with Bethesda. This has become especially relevant because independent modders are now in direct competition with Creation Club profit. Now that the Bethesda bean counters are potentially getting a dollar value out of our work, assuming their venture is successful, you can bet it is only a matter of time before the free modding community begins to feel some form of  pressure. Then, once the Creation Club platform spreads out to increase its potential contributors and takes over the modding space, paid or not, content you find on Loverslab will be a thing of the past.

Why? If a pay mod system exists, it does not mean that LL has to stop doing anything or be different in any way.

 

It's true that Bethesda would probably be cautious about the content. But, I think they would be pretty safe if this were managed by a company like Nexus. Plenty of adult content there.

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This is the real issue to me: CC did two things, one small, one big. How modders can get paid has changed, from patreon or donations to per-transaction. This is (in the grand scheme of things) a small change. The big change is that because Bethesda now collects money from the modders' work, this creates something new: a conflict of interest for them. Every mod that exists free and in the wild is now a lost opportunity for profit. It is this conflict of interest that makes me opposed to the CC in general, because it certainly can not possibly have any benefit for the modding community, to the contrary, if it proceeds logically and according to market principles, it will almost certainly ruin the modding scene.

I don't think this is the case for two connected reasons:

 

1. The quality and price in the CC is a bad deal. That would be true even if no free mods ever existed. As much publicity as successful loot-box and microtransaction schemes get, that model has been tried and failed many times when the cost/value hasnt been right. The problem isn't that free mods keep willingness to buy CC down. The problem is that these products have little demand at their price to begin with, period... If they were selling an amazing F4SE replacement or LooksMenu, etc. it might be a different story.

 

2. Bethesda has to see this by now. They aren't going to try and ramp it up at the same cost/quality at the expense of ruining the modding scene. They know this would be a net loss for them.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SexDwarf2250 said:

However, even in this postmodernist age, your feelings don't define people's rights, legal or otherwise

Legal...haha a few people keep throwing this around and it's a absolute bullshit statement ?

 So if your driving on a road that the speed limit is 55, your car can only go 55? No , it will go as fast as you want even thou it's illegal.

Cocaine,  shrooms, marijuana are illegal in most places, thast why we live in a drug free word right? 

  So are you the one person who has never watch a video that could be considered pirated, oh that's right it's alright, as long as it doesn't cost you money, and the people who make movies are already millionaires 

 

 

 

 Funny how we all break laws in the world ever day, yet when it comes to someone making a few buck of a mod.."OMG that should be free, they have always been free, because I want the pretend I am morally sound and in the one instance I will side with Beth on this because its cost me money"

[dankmemesxd]

I dont know guys, you keep mentioning bethesda and defend paywalling with what big companies are doing. While its 100% right, isnt free modding what differs us from them? As I recall, modders were not in it for the money, just for a hobby. Maybe I was wrong tho, maybe the modders who are paywalling their content right now were moneyhungry from the beginning, but less supported it few years ago, but who knows? You often use bethesda and other companies as an argument, but wasnt the heart and soul of modding that everyone gets what is avaiable for free? I understand that modders have every right to do what they want, but, as I said earlier, nobody forces them to make mods... Those who paywall their content right away are like the big companies that we all (maybe all) dislike. I support a delayed access to the mods, so people who support modders also get something for it, but a paywall is a big nono

[Guest]

@dankmemesxd

Everybody is against paywalling.

 

Keep in mind that some modders are professional modders. They do that as real life job.

It is more a discussion about what is OK to ask or give.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dankmemesxd said:

I dont know guys, you keep mentioning bethesda and defend paywalling with what big companies are doing. While its 100% right, isnt free modding what differs us from them? As I recall, modders were not in it for the money, just for a hobby. Maybe I was wrong tho, maybe the modders who are paywalling their content right now were moneyhungry from the beginning, but less supported it few years ago, but who knows? You often use bethesda and other companies as an argument, but wasnt the heart and soul of modding that everyone gets what is avaiable for free? I understand that modders have every right to do what they want, but, as I said earlier, nobody forces them to make mods... Those who paywall their content right away are like the big companies that we all (maybe all) dislike. I support a delayed access to the mods, so people who support modders also get something for it, but a paywall is a big nono

I still think modding is free as a whole, and you make some good points, it's just that all of us have wondered in some point in our life if we could make money doing something we loved. So if someone can make a little money making mods I am all for it, that's all I am saying

[dankmemesxd]

36 minutes ago, CPU said:

@dankmemesxd

Everybody is against paywalling.

 

Keep in mind that some modders are professional modders. They do that as real life job.

It is more a discussion about what is OK to ask or give.

Oh ok, I got the paywalling idea from the last couple of posts, maybe misunderstood them

 

11 minutes ago, -Caden- said:

I still think modding is free as a whole, and you make some good points, it's just that all of us have wondered in some point in our life if we could make money doing something we loved. So if someone can make a little money making mods I am all for it, that's all I am saying

Yeah, I also said it that modding should be like youtube, that you can live from it. I mean, a modder could even advertise programs or pc parts, who knows, but who wants to be advertised by an adult modder?   But to make a living out of mods is possible, but I think not in the TES community. From what I read on this thread, people have no problem with paying for Whicked Whims for sims or something like that and the author is getting a good money for it. When it comes to TES community, we are used to have our mods for free, you know? Never paid for anything, downloaded bazillion of mods and then removed a lot, because it was too much etc... Maybe TES 6 will change something on the modding scene, but I am worried for it since Fallout 76 will probably be a bitch to mod. I just hope Bethesda will allow non-creation club mods on the upcoming tes6 game

[winny257]

10 hours ago, dagobaking said:

I can assure you that many developers do make that much. More in fact. And then a lot, lot more if you start counting ones that independently make apps, etc. similar to the risk/reward that modding is.

what, you want seriously claim, that programmer in one greater (Large) games company all are millionaires.
a top programmer earns 73,000 euros a year in Germany, employed by BASF.
a lot of game developers have to take out loans and find sponsors, to cover the running costs.
flopt then this game, means that very often, the end of this company!
even CD Project Red had to find sponsors to finance the work. 

[Jazzman]

2 hours ago, CPU said:

@dankmemesxd

Everybody is against paywalling.

 

Keep in mind that some modders are professional modders. They do that as real life job.

It is more a discussion about what is OK to ask or give.

I subscribe to the conclusion w/o being able to answer the question for everyone but tell me, what is a "professional modder"?

An employee or freelancer of a gaming company as was the case with Rhedd (freelancer for Unreal Tournament), the free "catalyst" for the still virginal Morrowind community in late 2002. Some might remember his famous character heads that have totally dominated the scene until the release of Oblivion in 2006? The unknown technician like the one of GasPowered Games that leaked the decoding/coding tool for Dungeon Siege for free in 2003, absolutely (!) essential for modding the game? Something else?

 

Now to my own final decision in the matter.

Since I more than just smell an illegal rat behind the tactics of the paywall barricaderos I had to regain control over my own addiction by cutting the number of listed mods in my game ("Occam's razor") down to one third simply to avoid possible future irritations once these mods might or might not fade away behind a barricade. That's leaving me for the time being with some forty interesting mods whose makers I'm trying to size up as we speak plus the already mentioned handful of selected modders I sponsor for some time already b/c they are quite essential for my personal game experience. As you can see - whoever wins my heart and wallet, the barricaderos lose, at least over here. And only that matters to me.

 

PS Luckily I always create my own character face on the sliders in the week of game release. So whoever laughs loud about these face preset "mods" out there hasn't yet played the game w/o theses beauties, some 1,000 they are today in FO4, but actually this refers to just a handful successful 'production lines' that go back to a few parental chars made from vanilla. W/o them you might, in all likelihood, better say hello to your personal Trashcan Carla (or Fred Flintstone) tho, always hidden behind a fancy mask eh, the proverbial FO3 Anchorage syndrome...

[winny257]

1 hour ago, -Caden- said:

I still think modding is free as a whole, and you make some good points, it's just that all of us have wondered in some point in our life if we could make money doing something we loved. So if someone can make a little money making mods I am all for it, that's all I am saying

In Germany, this would not be possible at all, the legislation is badass here!
to the first: all violations of copyright end in court!
to the second: every additional income is taxable!
It means to reveal everything and believe me, the black sheep have nothing to laugh here. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jazzman said:

...but tell me, what is a "professional modder"?

 

A person that spend all his/her time creating "contents" (can be mods, part of mods, games, videos, etc.)

And tried to pay his/her bills by "selling" (in quotes because the form of retributions are not really strict.)

And pays taxes, according to the rules of the country he/she is living.

 

I personally know at least 7 people (all on LLab) doing that. And I am sure that there are 10 times more. (But I don't know them personally.)

 

For some strange reasons the leitmotif in this topic is:

* You should pay for Sims mods! -> Fine.

* You should pay for Beth games mods! -> Never! They have always been free!

 

And amuses me to read the different point of view of people, in some case modders, in some case just consumers.

Keep in mind that everything that is inside the laws of a Country can be done in that country.

And all countries allow to produce something and then sell it. By paying taxes.

 

And nobody obliges you to buy something.

 

The "no paywall" is fine and acceptable NOT because it is not right to sell mods. But because it is NOT right to sell shitty mods for money (and fraud is illegal pretty much everywhere.)

 

[winny257]

2 hours ago, CPU said:

 

And amuses me to read the different point of view of people, in some case modders, in some case just consumers.

Keep in mind that everything that is inside the laws of a Country can be done in that country.

And all countries allow to produce something and then sell it. By paying taxes.

 

yes I'm just a consumers but only a very small one. 
My claims are very low, a bit of bare skin, a few outfits on it and better textures, completely content.
here it sounds always, as if the modders would gnaw on the hunger towel!
then I ask myself from what money could they buy a PC, and for consoles Modder an additional console?!?!
I know some people which had to save several years for a cheap PC  to buy and now since recently, pay for mods!
it makes me angry!

 

and now the point to sell a product!
The company Adidas produces excellent sporting goods (copyrighted).
but in some countries (especially Japan, China and Korea) is the copyright worth a lot of shit.
these countries produce from almost everything, plagiarisms without fear of legal consequences.

 

I've already have bought plagiarism, real Levi's jeans ^^, produced in Vietnam.
Did I harm company Levis or not? 

 

I hope you understand what I mean.

[Jazzman]

2 hours ago, CPU said:

A person that spend all his/her time creating "contents" (can be mods, part of mods, games, videos, etc.)

And tried to pay his/her bills by "selling" (in quotes because the form of retributions are not really strict.)

And pays taxes, according to the rules of the country he/she is living.

 

I personally know at least 7 people (all on LLab) doing that. And I am sure that there are 10 times more. (But I don't know them personally.)

 

Fine, so these people are running a small 'tuning' business. Now, as it is custom in the tuning business the tuner buys a legal copy of the production line they intend to tune up (you can buy their test car or truck later at a good price). When it comes to gaming, establishing a tuning or accessory firm was thus doubtlessly possible as long as the customer owned a legal, resalable copy of the game and not just the non-transferable right to use it for private purposes. Unfortunately that's the new normal today. And that already is the judicial problem here... owning literally nothing but instead being owned by the gaming company as long as we play their game(s) and yet selling something we actually don't own even if we have created it. That fatal, isn't it?

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Jazzman said:

Fine, so these people are running a small 'tuning' business. Now, as it is custom in the tuning business the tuner buys a legal copy of the production line they intend to tune up (you can buy their test car or truck later at a good price). When it comes to gaming, establishing a tuning or accessory firm was thus doubtlessly possible as long as the customer owned a legal, resalable copy of the game and not just the non-transferable right to use it. Unfortunately that's the new normal today. And that already is the judicial problem here... owning nothing but instead being owned by the gaming company as long as we play their game(s) and yet selling something we actually don't own even if we have created it. That fatal, isn't it?

No, it is not.

 

First some game companies know that having the games moddable is a huge increase in sales. Some of them also tried to be lucrative on controlled paid modding, but that failed.

I think I was not clear in expressing my point, creating art can be done and shared for free, but can also be a job, and be paid.

Just try to keep the expectations for the price you are asking for.

 

And, do not complain on donations, they are 100% accepted and this specific point should not be discussed anymore.

[Jazzman]

1 hour ago, CPU said:

And, do not complain on donations, they are 100% accepted and this specific point should not be discussed anymore.

Never complained about my role as sponsor... ^^

I just give back what was given to me earlier.

[MadMansGun]

1 hour ago, CPU said:

For some strange reasons the leitmotif in this topic is:

* You should pay for Sims mods! -> Fine.

* You should pay for Beth games mods! -> Never! They have always been free!

the sims are a lost cause and dead to me, if i had my way that section of the site would be nuked.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

the sims are a lost cause and dead to me, if i had my way that section of the site would be nuked.

Then probably the site will have problems.

From the moment we had Sims 3 and Sims 4 mods, the revenue of the site increased significantly.

Form both advertisements and donations.

 

Keep in mind Ashal has to pay the servers and make a living.

[winny257]

10 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

the sims are a lost cause and dead to me, if i had my way that section of the site would be nuked.

Hihihi (laugh)
no problem.

Spoiler

 

sorry for the fun 
 

[MadMansGun]

33 minutes ago, CPU said:

Then probably the site will have problems.

From the moment we had Sims 3 and Sims 4 mods, the revenue of the site increased significantly.

Form both advertisements and donations.

 

Keep in mind Ashal has to pay the servers and make a living.

i know nothing about how or where the server/s is/are setup, so i can't debate the sites running costs or make stupid suggestions like "solar panels" or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI

 

[Guest]

Mods to me are improving on a existing product, so to give an example of how this might work in the world:

 We have all heard of or maybe drive a Telsa electric car, now the news here in the states is all about Telsa putting in more charging ports for the Telsa. To me that is stupid when all you would have to do is create wheel bearing that work as a turbine/alternator,  1 per wheel so as you drive down the road the wheels turn, creating electricity to recharge the battery cell, hence a self charging car.

 Then you hang small drag strips under the center of the car so it prevents over charging and it ground out to the road..now you never have to recharge a electric car again, it's self charging.

Now if I patented that idea to work on a Telsa, and Telsa decided to use it, they have to pay ME to use it, even thou it is designed to work on their cars and I improved their product.

Just look at a mod as a improvement on a existing product.

[KoolHndLuke]

31 minutes ago, -Caden- said:

Now if I patented that idea to work on a Telsa, and Telsa decided to use it, they have to pay ME to use it, even thou it is designed to work on their cars and I improved their product.

Or they might just steal your idea and give you nothing knowing that you can't afford to fight them. Lot of that going around these days- a growing plethora of mods for CC to use for example....and they already have according to some claimants.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Or they might just steal your idea and give you nothing knowing that you can't afford to fight them. Lot of that going around these days- a growing plethora of mods for CC to use for example.

Very true

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

i know nothing about how or where the server/s is/are setup, so i can't debate the sites running costs or make stupid suggestions like "solar panels" or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI

HAHA @ the video, that is a good Idea ?

I would buy a lovers lab t-shirt, have one along the lines of :

 

Lovers Lab

Sluttin up the world, 

one game at a time!

Your Welcome!

 

?

 

 

[SexDwarf2250]

14 hours ago, -Caden- said:

Legal...haha a few people keep throwing this around and it's a absolute bullshit statement

 So if your driving on a road that the speed limit is 55, your car can only go 55? No , it will go as fast as you want even thou it's illegal.

You don't have the right (the "absolute bullshit" term you introduced in the first post) to drive 200 in a school zone, even though it may certainly be possible in your car. And that is so because it is illegal, the legal system being what effectively defines your rights. In a like manner, throwing a blanket statement out there like you have, implying "anyone has the right to charge for work," without any further qualifiers, is at best poorly thought through.

 

I don't have the right to charge you to drive your car over the pothole by my road that I filled in myself with a lot of hard work. If you disagree, fill in a pothole in front of your house, then put up a payment toll booth for people who drive over your gravel. I'll be watching the news.

 

14 hours ago, dagobaking said:

The improvement would be because payment would add more mod authors than we would lose. I don't think any mod authors are on the brink of quitting because 30k downloads isn't 40k.

 

The CC is not really a market where mod authors control their products. For example, how can you judge the quality difference it results in when Bethesda makes every decision about who/what to include? The quality in that case doesn't have any connection to these being pay mods.

 

Why? If a pay mod system exists, it does not mean that LL has to stop doing anything or be different in any way.

 

It's true that Bethesda would probably be cautious about the content. But, I think they would be pretty safe if this were managed by a company like Nexus. Plenty of adult content there.

 

1. The quality and price in the CC is a bad deal. That would be true even if no free mods ever existed. As much publicity as successful loot-box and microtransaction schemes get, that model has been tried and failed many times when the cost/value hasnt been right. The problem isn't that free mods keep willingness to buy CC down. The problem is that these products have little demand at their price to begin with, period... If they were selling an amazing F4SE replacement or LooksMenu, etc. it might be a different story.

 

2. Bethesda has to see this by now. They aren't going to try and ramp it up at the same cost/quality at the expense of ruining the modding scene. They know this would be a net loss for them.

 

In themselves, there are some good points you make, but I think you have two conflicting views. You argue against part of what I am saying with, "it's a market system (not as if patronage isn't - CC is just no longer a market system for artists, but the same one that gets used in farmer's markets, piecework factories and sweatshops), and that supposedly means that money will attract more quality modders than if it were purely hobbyist or artisanal.

 

However, patronage already involves money being traded for services. From a post I saw above, one mod author makes over 170k a year from their patreon. Overall CC is not really adding anything new, just giving modders the illusion they can all make more money if they can force everyone to pay for their Thomas the Futa Engine Dragon Replacer mod, forgetting the fact that people won't even try it at that point. (Those poor console users excepted.)

 

Certainly, I imagine some will be making a bit more money than before. Will they quit their job over it? I find it unlikely to have much of an impact in that regard, but I know it will increase a resistance to cooperation because collaboration between modders will now have to overcome the mental barrier of "he'll be using bits I made that I could charge for per piece."

 

In either case, your argument is that it's a better market system fit than patronage, but I am skeptical about how much that will matter, if it were true. There's also the inconvenient point that quantity and quality are not interchangable, and a system that encourages cranking out piecework is maybe not the best to encourage content for a genre that is at least as much art as it is mechanics.

However! Then, on the other hand, you seem to argue "it won't be a threat, because it's a crappy market system," which further puts the nail in the coffin of the above point you made. But the problem with this is, even if I agree, the threat is not necessarily wether it runs the risk of "sucking up" modders into its system. I'm not terribly worried about modders using Creation Club in itself. Good for the console users, I say. But in fact, if CC flounders, the risk for us may be higher, because Zenimax may decide to step up their methods.

 

The risk is that Zenimax and Bethesda decide, for example, that it would improve their market if everyone had their stall in it, even if they don't charge. Simple example, improve the GECK a tiny bit, and spend this goodwill to integrate it with a mod cloud storage system, non-optional of course, something like Steam Workshop, or perhaps through acquiring the Bethesda bits of the Nexus. Now all mods live in the CC space, and it's really, really easy for all modders to click a single button to start selling it for Zenimax themselves. Trust me, this is exactly how the marketing executives will think. "Make it one click to start money rolling." This is a well known market principle.

 

If that happens, and it's not that unlikely, there's a pretty good chance it will ruin or permanently cripple adult content modding even beyond the chance of reducing modder collaboration.

 

By the way, the free modding community has produced, on Skyrim's Nexus alone, over 54,000 mods. The whole "people won't do stuff they enjoy for free" angle is obvious bullshit.

 

PS. Out of curiousity, does the CC license allow you to also distribute your own mods for free once they are on CC, as of right now? That will give a little insight into the thought behind CC strategy, I feel, and what its current stance is toward the hobbyist part of the mod community.

[khumak]

4 hours ago, CPU said:

Then probably the site will have problems.

From the moment we had Sims 3 and Sims 4 mods, the revenue of the site increased significantly.

Form both advertisements and donations.

 

Keep in mind Ashal has to pay the servers and make a living.

 

I wonder how closely advertising format has been looked at?  Personally, I use adblock plus with mostly just the default settings which does allow nonintrusive ads.  So many sites use advertising networks that are absolutely riddled with malware and extremely intrusive ads that there is no way I'll ever stop using an adblocker.  Every time I whitelist a site that says they've switched to a better ad provider I almost immediately get served up with intrusive ads or malware and have to remove them from the whitelist (I've tried this multiple times with Nexus for example).

 

The problem I've noticed with most websites is that the ads they serve up are NOT nonintrusive so adblock blocks all of them.  There are plenty of sites I go to where I do see ads, and I don't mind small, static text or banner ads.  I do mind autoplay audio or video, anything that resizes itself or changes the position of the window it's in relative to the rest of the content on the page, anything that includes popups, popunders, redirects, tracking, etc.

 

The ads that this site uses do not seem to conform to adblock's nonintrusive standard so they all get blocked.  Some sites have started blocking you from viewing their content unless you disable your adblocker.  My solution to that is to stop using that website entirely, this includes a lot of the news pages I used to visit (Forbes is the first one I can remember that started doing it).