Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I you agree with the second scenario (using unbound animations for bound actors) being undesirable, then let me tell you that you're making a whole lot of fuss over a HANDFUL of bound animations that DD won't use because of its lack of creature support. All other bound animations currently in circulation you can happily register to SexLab via ZAP and have it pick them in situations where they don't make any sense. Even DCL would use them! What DCL prevents (and what I have zero intention changing) is that it will NEVER pick unbound animations for situations requiring bound animations, and that's what you said you agree with getting filtered.

 

Generally: I am pretty sure that the very vast majority of users lets SexLab pick a random animation and sticks with it. My solution has to work for these people, and pick animations that fit the context, WITHOUT basically requiring them to manually override animations using 3rd party tools when the code picked silly ones. Also, you can't add "temporary bindings" to random SexLab animations after the animation all that easily. Most of the ones you would feel compelled to use would trigger code that would break the animation. Just saying.

 

Fair enough, but I didn't know you could register SexLab animations to ZAP. How can I do that?

 

PS I don't know of any bound creature animations that would require creature support. The ones I have are for humanoid races.

[Reesewow]

17 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

PS I don't know of any bound creature animations that would require creature support. The ones I have are for humanoid races.

There were a series of doggystyle animations with armbinder arm poses for various non-humanoid creatures (horses ect). 

 

Unfortunately Skyrim considers all non-humans as creatures for the purposes of animations - the fact that some of them are humanoid in shape doesn't really make a difference.  So to support "humanoid" creatures, DD would have to add full creature support.

[Falke36]

What can i do, if my Body is invicible?

[LazyBoot]

22 minutes ago, X303811 said:

What can i do, if my Body is invicible?

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/71481-tutorial-building-dd-items-in-bodyslide-nmmmo/

[tookachinchilla]

8 hours ago, Kimy said:

The other scenario is bound actors performing sex acts impossible to do with the kind of bondage they are wearing. E.g. vaginal sex performed through a chastity belt. That's equally silly.

Agreed. On that topic, are all of the catsuits considered "accessible"? I know some state that in the description, but not all. And I've seen vaginal/anal animations where the recipient is wearing a catsuit.

[Bednarik]

Any1 else have a problem with downloading Deviously Cursed Loot?  I can get to 50% & it stops.

ss

[Lupine00]

There really are a lot more animations that have some kind of bound support than DCL support.

It's not just a handful.

 

And then there's what I saw in the SL debug output from sex launched by <some mod>, where one of the flags being requested was ... quite puzzling ... and was clearly resulting in disappointing outcomes.

 

And then there's the inability for modders in general to tell what is happening in an animation unless they do what DCL does and list them in their mod explicitly.

 

This problem still needs a proper solution, not ad hoc lists in individual mods.

 

The player has bound wrists, bound feet, vaginal chastity, needs to be standing or kneeling, attacker is male, not bound and aggressive. If you could ask a mod for the list of installed animations that support this, and then specify what order to ignore constraints if they can't be met... And when the animation plays, you want to know whether the PC or attacker could orgasm. You might want to know what orifices end up being used for each slot.

 

Currently, impossible to know unless you code your own list.

 

Oh wait. This is the DCL list. Never mind then, I just turn off the filters and hit O until I'm happy.

[LazyBoot]

12 hours ago, tookachinchilla said:

Agreed. On that topic, are all of the catsuits considered "accessible"? I know some state that in the description, but not all. And I've seen vaginal/anal animations where the recipient is wearing a catsuit.

I think the catsuits are assumed to have zippers in the crotch for access.

[Kimy]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There really are a lot more animations that have some kind of bound support than DCL support.

It's not just a handful.

 

And then there's what I saw in the SL debug output from sex launched by <some mod>, where one of the flags being requested was ... quite puzzling ... and was clearly resulting in disappointing outcomes.

 

And then there's the inability for modders in general to tell what is happening in an animation unless they do what DCL does and list them in their mod explicitly.

 

This problem still needs a proper solution, not ad hoc lists in individual mods.

 

The player has bound wrists, bound feet, vaginal chastity, needs to be standing or kneeling, attacker is male, not bound and aggressive. If you could ask a mod for the list of installed animations that support this, and then specify what order to ignore constraints if they can't be met... And when the animation plays, you want to know whether the PC or attacker could orgasm. You might want to know what orifices end up being used for each slot.

 

Currently, impossible to know unless you code your own list.

 

Oh wait. This is the DCL list. Never mind then, I just turn off the filters and hit O until I'm happy.

The problem will persist unless SexLab's tagging system gets a massive overhaul that makes it much more powerful, including standardized tags and complex expressions. Right now you can either OR or AND the entire query, but not pass more complex expressions, like "MF AND (oral OR anal) AND rape AND armbinder AND NOT (vaginal OR handjob)". There is also no way to define animations that will never get picked randomly unless certain of its tags are called -explicitly-. You can mark an animation as" bound", but as long as you're not passing "bound" in the suppress string, the animation will absolutely get picked by QuickSex() etc. The latter is actually the main problem, and that's what makes random sex scenes pick bound animations in situations when nobody's bound.

 

Short of the above happening, there is absolutely nothing I can do from my end to make this work in a clean way without using a local animation registry, combined with code that lets me do selections like the above (which is essentially what the DD filter is doing)

 

If there are more bound animations around NOT yet included in DD, by all means point me to them, and I will see if I can convince their creator to let me add them to DD. Nobody ever submitted any to me, other than Funnybiz's bound animations for creatures, which I couldn't add because DD does not support bestiality.

 

PS: DCL doesn't have an animation registry. DD does provide one for all DD mods around, together with an API function to allow DD mods pick valid bound animations. That's what DCL is using. The filter will never get triggered if animations are picked by this function, because it triggers only when invalid animations are playing (in which case it replaced them with a valid one).

[Supertin]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There really are a lot more animations that have some kind of bound support than DCL support.

It's not just a handful.

All the animations you are referring to (I am assuming you mean pretty much any animation out there that has the 'bound' tag in SL) are pretty much useless in the context of what animations DD is looking for.

Basically all of those animations I have seen just have the wrists positioned together in random places, which will look just as broken as a regular sex animations when DD would need your arms to be in an appropriate position for the armbinder the character is wearing. Or the yoke, or elbowbinder, or bbyoke etc.

I have even released an easy way for other animators to adjust their animations to be useable by DD, but the interest so far has been a net zero amongst them.

 

But as Kimy said we have plans on improving the lackof DD animations ourselves now.

[MonkeyShoulder]

Hey Kimy, has there been any updates regarding if there is going to be version 7?

 

 

[JZOBTGUMXJN]

Could anyone tell me where the dollmaker lives, i cannot find her shop.

[Reesewow]

1 minute ago, JZOBTGUMXJN said:

Could anyone tell me where the dollmaker lives, i cannot find her shop.

Dawnstar, near the museum.

[Kimy]

21 minutes ago, MonkeyShoulder said:

Hey Kimy, has there been any updates regarding if there is going to be version 7?

 

 

Work on DCL 7 will begin after release of DD 4.1.

 

(and yes, we're not far away from releasing it!)

[Dust+]

Hi @Kimy. Few months ago you told that you want to do more features with Sasha, do you have any progression in this direction? This is exciting theme for me, and I wonder is it worth waiting for changes soon or not?

[Kimy]

1 minute ago, Dust+ said:

Hi @Kimy. Few months ago you told that you want to do more features with Sasha, do you have any progression in this direction? This is exciting theme for me, and I wonder is it worth waiting for changes soon or not?

*points to my previous post*

[Dust+]

1 minute ago, Kimy said:

*points to my previous post*

Nice! 

[Kimy]

 

It will indeed be a major version, btw., I didn't use the 7 just because the poster I quoted did. Means....lots of new shiny stuff!

[SassaAria]

3 hours ago, Supertin said:

I have even released an easy way for other animators to adjust their animations to be useable by DD, but the interest so far has been a net zero amongst them.

Hi, is a link for this information available?

Am prepping myself for making some animations and having them DDcompliant makes total sense.

[Reesewow]

4 hours ago, Kimy said:

If there are more bound animations around NOT yet included in DD, by all means point me to them, and I will see if I can convince their creator to let me add them to DD. Nobody ever submitted any to me, other than Funnybiz's bound animations for creatures, which I couldn't add because DD does not support bestiality.

I can make a suggestion for that in regards to fairly recent animations:

 

RohZima has a series of bound animations and is an active animator: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93386-rohzima-animations-slal/.  I believe several of these may be usable as armbinder animations as they include hogtie poses ect.

 

 

[Supertin]

42 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I can make a suggestion for that in regards to fairly recent animations:

 

RohZima has a series of bound animations and is an active animator: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93386-rohzima-animations-slal/.  I believe several of these may be usable as armbinder animations as they include hogtie poses ect.

 

 

Looking at the previews, none of these animations are useable by DD as they have the exact problem I have mentioned above. The arms in the "bound" animations are just randomly placed together at the wrists whereever. For them to be useable by DD they need to be placed in the same (relatively precise but not absolutely exact) position they are in any of the HeavyBondage devices (armbinder, elbowbinder, yoke, bbyoke or front cuffs; with front cuffs being the most forgiving in terms of placement as long as it is in front of the body and hands are close to each other). If they're placed elsewhere they would obviously make the arms clip outside of whatever device the character is in.

 

 

55 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Hi, is a link for this information available?

Am prepping myself for making some animations and having them DDcompliant makes total sense.

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3990-devious-devices-animator-resource-pack/

[SassaAria]

47 minutes ago, Supertin said:

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3990-devious-devices-animator-resource-pack/

Thanks!  FBX format will be interesting to try in Blender.

[thedarlec]

what should I disable in the mcm to stop the nipple chains? I nipple and clit gems but the chain set still happens edit:I tend to block anything that adds that periced nipple or clit perk

[qawsedrftg765]

I am assuming Version 7 will require a new game?

[Lupine00]

20 hours ago, Kimy said:

The problem will persist unless SexLab's tagging system gets a massive overhaul that makes it much more powerful, including standardized tags and complex expressions.

I disagree. In the sense that I don't believe that sexlab's tagging system can or should be overhauled.

The animation packs out there simply don't have the tags. Who is going to add them?

 

Once you are at the point where you are cataloguing that information, you may as well put it in a small, light, maintainable mod that delivers that information to consumers and requires no changes to SexLab. That also has an API for aware animation packs to add themselves in the future, or for ANYONE who cares to add them, or alter them for packs they know and love.

 

Expecting the animation packs to all get remade for a new sexlab, and forcing a "big bang" where one design for tagging is forced onto others is exactly what failed in the first place. The chances that you will fully anticipate the needs of every modder are slim to none. But with a small, light animation finder mod, if a feature is missing, it can be added later without making every single SL user upgrade. Or somebody can use the data to make a competing mod, that can be installed as well. Only new mods that use the finder need to upgrade. In fact, it could be designed to allow side-by-side install of versions as a policy, but I guess that sounds too much like real software engineering. (I hear people moaning about mod limit already, but it's an edge case that could be used to argue against every mod ever made).

 

A monolithic "designed by fiat" SexLab overhaul simply isn't necessary, and will exclude those it does not please.

 

What are the odds some dreamed of future-fix-all SexLab will deliver exactly the right API, and will be perfectly backwards compatible?

Oddly enough, people don't really like massive changes to a critical mod they rely on, especially developers.

DD4 didn't manage to solve that issue, with a much smaller problem.

Zaz 8+ still isn't trusted by a lot of people, and it doesn't change the Zbf API at all.

 

I for one do not want to deal with a fragmented ecosystem where old SL mods and new SL mods can't co-exist in the same LO. We have some of this issue with DD. You can brush off the yokes issue as minor, but there are other incompatibilities too, just more subtle. Some mods relied on the old difficulties, they might still work (bar yokes), but really, their gameplay is spoiled.