Deadly Pleasures

[Delzaron]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I just started playing this. It looks interesting of course, and I look forward to seeing the Kom animations used in a coherent context for once.

 

However, Delzaron, you seem to be over-selling the level of completeness on this - a bit like with Things in the Dark.

 

Calling it a beta? I'd be quite happy to accept what I'm getting if it was describing itself as WIP-alpha.

 

Beta is supposed to mean "finished bar a few bugs I haven't found yet".

 

This is ... clearly ... not that.

 

Firstly, the English dialog is so badly shot through with typos, grammatical oddities, and bits where you just ran out of space and put "..." that it's quite hard to follow any of the story.

 

Secondly, timing on "scene-based" dialog is far too fast, and you can't read much of it at all. Having to try and decode the uneven English makes this even harder.

 

If it's not really "done" in English, please make it clear up front.

 

 

 

Here's my experience so far:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Go to inn. Innkeeper tells me about the girls.

I have to go to solitude to progress the quest, without much intrigue to draw me in yet.

I have one single conversation in Solitude, and I'm done, back to Whiterun. This is gratuitous "ran around" quest design, so I didn't find it fun.

Back in Whiterun, another trivial conversation leads me to Nazeem's lodgings, where some dialog zips past I can't read and I get a journal entry telling me to "Spy Nazeem".

 

I spent three days of Skyrim time searching Whiterun for Nazeem. He is not in Whiterun anywhere.

I port to Nazeem. He is in dark room with a locked gate.

 

I reload, and port Nazeem to Whiterun. He sets off to go somewhere. He jams up incessantly and does not go there.

After several real hours of unsticking Nazeem manually with moveto, I finally get him to walk to wherever it is he likes to go.

This takes me to a dark archway. As I approach it, I suddenly get a loading screen, no transition of explanation.

 

Now I'm back in the dark room with the locked gate again. This time legitimately. There is no explanation of how I got there, or how my stuff got taken, or any of that.

 

A lizard shows up and leads me to a room where he tells me to sit.

So I sit.

 

This renders it impossible for me to start the conversation with the dremora female who has wandered off to do some alchemy.

 

So I stand up, and start a conversation with her.

She explains the scenario, and I'm offered an opt-out (which is good).

 

Of course I agree to proceed, and go down to watch an animation.

It doesn't play.

I realise that you require the animations to be registered into SLAL. This is a problem really, as it makes them available to any sex scene, and they aren't suitable for that.

It is possible to play animations without forcing the player to register them in this way. DD does it, for example. It would be great if you could fix this.

I re-play with the animations registered. The animation plays as expected.

 

This animation doesn't line up real well with the female models. Not sure if you already did this, but maybe NPCs should use a custom body, like in TitD so they work well with the animations?

 

Then some more chatting, and some sex scenes, which all work fine.

 

Then the Jez decides to lead me down the stairs to the dungeon. She gets stuck on the corner of the arch.

I observe that EVERYONE gets stuck on the corner of the arch. You probably need to be a bit more careful with the navmesh there.

 

Then, in the dungeon, after going through the load door, she ports in, walks through me and then walks through a locked iron portcullis without opening it.

I pull the ring to open the portcullis and follow her. This is not immersive.

 

Down in the dungeon, handed off to a jail keeper who spits out dialog unreadably fast. He tells me some rules, but I have about one second to read them.

 

I follow him some more, play with a machine, and then try to talk to the girls, but they have nothing interesting to say, and don't progress the plot.

 

I go to sleep.

 

I wake up and it says "Wait for the guide"

 

I discover this means "do not wait" but instead go and look for him.

 

The lizard tries to lead me upstairs. He gets stuck on the navmesh. After I push him to unstick him, he goes through the load door. I follow, but there is no sign of the lizard I was supposed to follow, he is totally gone.

 

I search around for my partner and find her. She is stuck on the navmesh by the archway.

 

I go into Arena 1. Surprise! The lizard who was supposed to guide me is waiting there.

 

 

 

So far ... lots of good effort spoiled by:

 

* dysfunctional navmeshes that make the NPCs stick everywhere.

* AI packages that don't work, so NPCs walk through gates, or hide in impossible to find places when you are supposed to "spy" on them.

* dialog that is workmanlike, repetitive, hard to understand, and sometimes goes too fast to read.

 

The constant klunks destroy any immersion, and the dialog, when it can be read, does nothing to build mystery or hook you in.

The NPCs might as well say "..." most of the time, because even when you can follow what they say, it's "on the nose" every time, no surprises, no personality, nothing to engage or amuse; nothing to make you wonder what comes next.

 

There's a lot that works here, but it fails to generate any sense of peril, or anticipation for future events - and the latter ought to be possible.

 

And there's a lot that is technically broken too. From Nazeem breaking the introduction and having to be ported out of wherever he was hiding, then coaxed to lead me to the correct spot with hours of tedious effort ... to characters that walk through closed gates, get stuck all the time, or simply vanish. 

 

 

On the up side, I haven't had to use setstage yet! So progress there  

In terms of time sunk, and grief endured, this is still miles ahead of TitD, but on the other hand, TitD had more spark and freshness to it, and made better use of Skyrim gameplay "as we know it" (fighting things and looting the corpses). The overreaching ambition of TitD sucks you in, makes you want to like it. There's a charm to its gonzo enormity. This feels more like you aimed low and missed.

 

There must be dozens of keen writers who would help produce engaging, genuinely English text, free of typos. Not just proof-readers, but writers! Please let them help you!

 

The technical issues don't seem like they're overwhelming. I think you could fix pretty easily.

I would simply assume you hadn't got around to that yet if this were described as what it is: "WIP alpha".

 

 

I know this sounds unreasonably harsh. You made this for nothing in your free time. You want it to be fun, but trust me, I am trying to help here. I also want your mod to be awesome. I want to love it. I was ready to love it, but you oversold the completion status ... quite a bit.

 

Really, if this weren't supposed to be a "beta", I'd be pretty optimistic about the finished version.

 

But if this is your "beta", you need to recalibrate your standards.

 

You cannot make a mod that has zero conventional Skyrim gameplay; a mod that pivots entirely on the quality of its dialog; then have mediocre dialog absolutely rife with serious errors, and where the plot is so predictable that the reader can guess most of what's being said without even reading it (though perhaps that's fortunate given that mostly it can't be read).

 

Or rather, you can make such a mod, but it won't be a hit. If you don't have gameplay, you must have something else, like writing and plot. Alas, the writing and plot don't carry this.

 

There must be people who love the idea of this mod that can (and want to) rewrite it for you. They can rewrite without a single technical change, and fix the whole dialog problem with ESP Translator. Easily.

 

The Kom animations are not enough to carry this mod by themselves. If there was some other fun going on, they'd be an asset, as it is, they're not a substitute for gameplay, plot or dialogue.

 

 

And, unfortunately, the bits of gameplay that were present didn't work!

 

Using Nazeem was a plain unlucky call, given that DCL now uses him, and you are going to run into conflicts there. But that wasn't my problem. I would say my problem was Immersive NPCs, or Immersive NPC AI Overhaul. Both are incredibly popular mainstream mods; you have to appreciate they may well be installed and work around them correctly.

 

Following an NPC could be a fun thing to do, but it has to work, and it has to feel like you can fail, but if you fail it was your fault, not because the NPC just isn't working. In my case there simply would have been no Nazeem at all if I hadn't pulled him out of the hole he was hiding it - a hole that DP put him in.

 

DP had the benefit of being the last mod in my LO, but even that wasn't enough to save it.

 

Personally, I'd move the setting to Solitude (the internal architecture looks like Solitude, not Whiterun, and Whiterun is overused and already overrun with brothels). Use Erikur instead of Nazeem, and drop that back and forth time wasting at the start.

 

If you're going to waste time like that, at least give the player something to do: somebody who must be killed, or rescued, or who is in an unusual place. Everyone has Solitude and Whiterun on their fast travel points, and if they don't, there are still carriages there. Being sent to talk to an NPC who is on the other side of the map with scarcely any justification is not quest design, it's just time-sinking.

 

Secondly, if you're going to rely on NPC pathing, make sure you control that NPC. Hide the real one and use a substitute if you have to. Maybe you did that with Nazeem? If so, it didn't work for some reason, and so all he did was sit in his hidey hole, or after being summoned from there, stare blankly at Pelagia Farm.

 

Third, in an area you use over and over and over again, a busted navmesh that jams up pretty much every NPC should have been found and fixed.

 

That's a long comment !

 

I'll try to respond to most of the points (it's late in France now...)

 

1 : Deadly Pleasures is a joined project between Komotor and me. The idea was to create a quest mod able to give a context to komotor animations;

After a discussion, we agreed to make a "exhibition show company" leaded by a dark seductress (Jezera), with limited dependencies (no Zaz...).

 

 

* : navmeshes are ok for the creation kit... all the doors are linked. Of course, it's not perfect, I could set prefered paths.

* : Spy on them ?

* : workmanlike ? Of course it can be repetitive... the mod is repetitive itself !

I made the dialogues by myelf. I know it's far from perfect, but the priority is to implement the last quests. I accept all propositions to rewrite the dialogues according to the characters.

 

There is no true peril for now : komotor will finanlly not create the death animations version for his anims (too lot of work for just a single mod  it's non sense).

It's not a Door Monster Treasure quest mod, more a brothel one...

 

Nazeem works perfectly : he just need to finish his prioritary vanilla packages before execute the quest one...

 

 

TID and Deadly Pleasures are very different projects. TID is a classic quest mods, with lot of LL stuff.

Deadly Pleasure sis omething very different.

TID is a very ambitious project (in fact, I need a dev team for it !!!), deadly pleasure is far more reasonable.

 

I accept help from writters (i know my english is not perfect, and I write fast... so I miss lot of mistakes).

 

It's not a wip alpha mod for me : the main content is here, most of the bugs were corrected. Problem is any new addon adds bugs... ad I have not lot of time for corrections and tests.

 

Of course, I wish my mods be fun to play... but I want also original works : NMM, for example, is unique.

 

I take also ideas about scenario rebuilding...

 

 

I use a minimal skyrim mod list, in attempt to keep skyrim stable... I can't predict all mods behaviors. Nazeem is a classic douch bag, so...

 

Actually, the Outpost is near Riften... it's an abandonned vampire castle.

 

 

Quest about saving/killing : I don't know, it was not the point of that mod...  plots and assinations are the point of TID. Deadly pleasures is very simple in comparison, but I could agree to add more content if the proposition is good, and if I found the time (most of my mods have contents suggered by the players).

 

[countcrapula]

Sorry about this. I'm supposed to talk to Chuul, which I do, but nothing happens (no new dialogue options).

[Lupine00]

On 11/12/2018 at 8:19 AM, Delzaron said:

That's a long comment !

 

I'll try to respond to most of the points (it's late in France now...)

 

1 : Deadly Pleasures is a joined project between Komotor and me. The idea was to create a quest mod able to give a context to komotor animations;

After a discussion, we agreed to make a "exhibition show company" leaded by a dark seductress (Jezera), with limited dependencies (no Zaz...).

 

 

* : navmeshes are ok for the creation kit... all the doors are linked. Of course, it's not perfect, I could set prefered paths.

* : Spy on them ?

* : workmanlike ? Of course it can be repetitive... the mod is repetitive itself !

I made the dialogues by myelf. I know it's far from perfect, but the priority is to implement the last quests. I accept all propositions to rewrite the dialogues according to the characters.

 

There is no true peril for now : komotor will finanlly not create the death animations version for his anims (too lot of work for just a single mod  it's non sense).

It's not a Door Monster Treasure quest mod, more a brothel one...

 

Nazeem works perfectly : he just need to finish his prioritary vanilla packages before execute the quest one...

 

 

TID and Deadly Pleasures are very different projects. TID is a classic quest mods, with lot of LL stuff.

Deadly Pleasure sis omething very different.

TID is a very ambitious project (in fact, I need a dev team for it !!!), deadly pleasure is far more reasonable.

 

I accept help from writters (i know my english is not perfect, and I write fast... so I miss lot of mistakes).

 

It's not a wip alpha mod for me : the main content is here, most of the bugs were corrected. Problem is any new addon adds bugs... ad I have not lot of time for corrections and tests.

 

Of course, I wish my mods be fun to play... but I want also original works : NMM, for example, is unique.

 

I take also ideas about scenario rebuilding...

 

 

I use a minimal skyrim mod list, in attempt to keep skyrim stable... I can't predict all mods behaviors. Nazeem is a classic douch bag, so...

 

Actually, the Outpost is near Riften... it's an abandonned vampire castle.

 

 

Quest about saving/killing : I don't know, it was not the point of that mod...  plots and assinations are the point of TID. Deadly pleasures is very simple in comparison, but I could agree to add more content if the proposition is good, and if I found the time (most of my mods have contents suggered by the players).

 

 

Thanks for responding. I appreciate your answers, and the manner in which you give them.

 

 

Maybe I can clarify a bit...

 

Navmeshes... Surely you notice that your NPCs continually get stuck on the edges of doorways, or objects, or walk directly into tables?

It's not rare, it's extremely frequent, and it looks very much like some tables were added after the navmesh was done.

 

If not, you must have released a different ESP to the one you are working on.

 

 

"Spy on them", this is the dialog you use: "Spy on Nazeem".

 

If you had to follow him from a distance, instead of walking along kicking him to stop him just giving up and watching the sunset, it would be more fun. See something like Gravity Rush for examples.

 

Nazeem does not work perfectly well for me. Not even close. I wouldn't have spent so long addressing his various misbehaviors if he had worked.

I know it's a running gag that it's always Nazeem that's the asshole, but in practice that just makes you conflict with an awful lot of mods, and chances are the conflict with DCL 7 is going to hit you hard.

 

It's difficult to explain how the problem I had with Nazeem was the fault of another mod. If he'd wandered off to drink at the Drunken Huntsman, I could blame Immersive AI Overhaul, but that was not the problem.

 

He was perma-stuck at the entry point to the DP entry-chamber - inside the load-gate trigger area. That is not "working perfectly". There is no practical way at all to find him normally when he's in such a location. You'd have to think of walking around the outside edge of the entire city-wall.

 

Once ported away from there, he froze, staring at Pelagia Farm for several GAME DAYS. It was only by repeatedly porting him to different locations that I managed to make him come back to life through trial-and-error.

 

While I understand it's reasonable to develop on a setup where there's nothing but your essential requirements, you still need to do a play-test on a proper setup before each release; it's only common sense.

 

It's not hard to find the most popular mods and install them all on your test-rig because Nexus and LL will tell you the most popular mods. If you can't run with them all, you can list them as incompatibilities, which will save you, and your players, a lot of time and misery.

 

 

Peril doesn't have to be player death in a special sex-scene. I think you know that. You're just trying to goad Komtor into making death anims  

And you do show a death anim in one case, so if you wanted key plot points where you could die, you could use that animation. (Though I don't think there's a need).

Spoiler

 

Peril could come in all kinds of ways, and the less heavy-handed and melodramatic it is, the better it works, because the player has more belief that it will happen.

SD+ enslavement is "peril" but it doesn't kill you, and you know it can end, but it's still something you want to avoid most times.

Having all your gear stolen and being dumped in a random location is peril.

Getting stuck in a high-security armbinder is definitely peril.

Having an NPC you like put in danger, of death, or some long-lasting change, is peril.

A chance to lose some perk or convenience that you worked for is powerful peril in Skyrim.

I'm sure you can think of hundreds of ways that DP could legitimately create a little tension. It doesn't have to be life or death.

It just needs to be more hazardous than walking to the arena and doing another show, then practicing on a machine, the going to bed.

 

 

 

Why have the outpost near Riften, if you tell the player it's close to Whiterun at the start? That seems pointlessly confusing.

Also, how do you get from Whiterun to Riften when it all goes dark? How are you knocked out? It's never explained. How do you travel? Underground tunnels again?

I find it hard to believe Nazeem navigates falmer tunnels by himself from Whiterun to Riften every time he wants to watch a bit of fun.

Otherwise, why is he going to that spot on the Whiterun wall? It doesn't make much sense TBH. If he's going to Riften, why doesn't he get a carriage?

 

 

If DP was my business, and I guess it isn't really  I would stretch out the sex content by putting little radiant jobs in between every couple of shows.

Spoiler

Personally, I'd steer clear of Whiterun, Riften, Markarth, and possibly Falkreath, all those locations are over-used for quests and the vanilla NPCs are highly prone to conflicts. Similarly, Elisif, and Ulfric are characters you don't want in your mod. Solitude is one of the less used places - for reasons I can't fathom.

 

If you must have somebody in Whiterun, the best thing is a new NPC. Then you have zero conflicts.

Maybe you have to go to a dungeon and get some item from the boss chest for the mistress. She gives you specific gear to wear while on the job. Sometimes it might not be ideal for adventuring. And there could be some kind of timed collar involved, I hear that's a thing ... You can use the built-in radiant system for it, all you need is some stuff in the story manager, some maguffin items to collect, and a few kinky adventuring costumes to wear.

 

Also, instead of always giving a show at the outpost, you might sometimes go to a secret venue to give a show. Nobody will care if the other locations are extremely similar to the existing arena. e.g. They are the geometry for the existing arena, cut out and put in its own cell. You enter and leave via dialog and fades to black.

 

Each journey could differ a bit, sometimes a bondage trip, sometimes you have to fight somebody at the other end, or maybe robbers try to kidnap one of the "performers" on the way (or succeed, and you have to get her back). Once you arrive, you talk to the mistress of her flunky, and you get ported to the area cell. After you're done you are ported straight  home.

 

For more "peril" I'd base that on interactions with the girls, seeing as you laid some groundwork there, but then undercut it completely by resolving the conflict on the first challenge (you could have ramped it up a notch instead, with Chuul infuriated at the incomplete outcome).

 

Each girl would have things they want as presents that you can find around the outpost or get from other girls, the staff, as presents from guests given to you, or on other trips out to do jobs. Think Devious Cidhna.

This can be made quite repeatable. They will always want valuables or nice things to eat.

You only have a small cast and one kind of item each that they desire is enough.

 

Then make it so that you can't please all the girls. Set up so you always upset one by pleasing others. They get jealous easily.

Similarly, sometimes, your performance might go wrong (totally at random), and the guests will be bored, or the mistress angry.

Doesn't need a different animation, just cut it short. In that case your co-performer may get very mad at you because you've got them both in trouble.

It would be hardest to win over Chuul, and she would tend to take the best/worst revenges.

 

Following from those two ways of getting upset, the girls have revenge scenarios.

Nothing major. You wake up and find you're locked in your room, miss your performance and get in more trouble with the mistress.

 

You are attacked in the night, bound and beaten badly. Maybe they make you drink a drug, or your food is drugged.

 

Afterwards it makes you get in more trouble with the mistress because you can't perform well.

 

Also, sometimes you choose how to entertain the guests. Each guest has a favourite. Early on you get a chance to learn the favourites. If you choose the wrong entertainments later, you get in trouble. This isn't explained, player has to figure it out.

 

How does the mistress punish you? You decide. Maybe she just gets a troll to rape you. I think Komotor probably has an animation for that.

 

It doesn't have to be more than that, and I don't want to go into more detail. It's just an example.

 

 

 

More bugs, that I hinted at, but didn't cover in detail previously:

Spoiler

 

About half the conversations were out of sync with the journal instructions.

Veez in particular would give instructions then freeze and not go anywhere, rendering the quest impossible to progress without reloading and trying to talk to him again.

Veez always jammed if you clicked out after selecting your topic, instead of waiting for the dialog to exit of its own accord.

Veez would stick on the all the corners and tables every time you had to follow him

Quest markers would point to the wrong rooms.

 

Veez often vanishes on leaving the prison when you are supposed to follow. He isn't on the other side of the door, about half the time.

I suspect that he actually appears on the side of the OTHER door to the one he appeared to leave by in some cases, and when I ran around to look, this was often confirmed. (As you know there are two doors next to each other that come out in different parts of the main outpost cell).

 

(All the above happened pretty much from the start, and on every performance stage).

 

 

The dispute with Chuul occurs out of order with sleeping. You sleep, and only then are told to talk to her, then the quest says you can sleep or train, but you've already slept.

 

Some dialogs will only show up after you've left the cell and re-entered it via a load door, even though the people you need to talk to are right there.

 

If you ask to train on the brutal dildo, you're told to use the activator. There is NO activator, the quest blocks and can't progress.

 

When you finish the first stage, you're asked to read the note.

It tell's you you've received a note.

 

There is no note; it's not added when all your gear is returned.

 

I looked through likely items and gave myself the book with the lowest ID that looked promising.

 

It seemed like the WRONG note, in that I was told to return to the dungeon, and that I needed to talk to her mercenary, and I'd know where to find her - which of course I did not as I'd seen and heard of no such character. Nevertheless, the quest stage advanced when I read this (seemingly wrong note).

 

Perhaps I wasn't supposed to have the note, in which case the message telling me I had it, and to read it were wrong, and quite misleading.

 

 

 

This was where I eventually gave up, as it was impossible to progress properly without setstage, or trying all the notes at random.

 

 

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, countcrapula said:

Sorry about this. I'm supposed to talk to Chuul, which I do, but nothing happens (no new dialogue options).

I had this too. If you played the bit before this, surely you got used to it telling you things out of order etc?

 

Try sleeping. If that doesn't help, talk to Veez. He is probably the character you need to talk to at that point. Possibly you need to sleep, THEN talk to Veez, that's what I did.

[Delzaron]

9 hours ago, countcrapula said:

Sorry about this. I'm supposed to talk to Chuul, which I do, but nothing happens (no new dialogue options).

Before or after the anim ?

[countcrapula]

On 11/13/2018 at 5:37 PM, Delzaron said:

Before or after the anim ?

This was after the animation. I think what I actually had to do was talk to Veez and it just worked. 

[mrblack1010]

On 10/27/2018 at 11:41 AM, mrblack1010 said:

Yo who to speak to find miquote. it says talk to some Reachman. i tried every one even forsworns and they say they dont know.

 

 

[Delzaron]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:43 PM, mrblack1010 said:

 

Muiri and Bothela are enough.

[Lupine00]

So, I reloaded and tried finishing the first stage again, and this time when I went into Whiterun, a courier appeared, and quest progressed.

The puzzle part is finding "my mercenary", because the start of the mod is so bugged, you aren't aware there is actually a person at the little ruin Nazeem leads you to. However, there is no obvious other place to try, so I tried that first, and there was, to my surprise, an NPC waiting there.

 

I also tried "not obeying" and spent several days not going there, but there was no punishment. Is there anything, or is it simply that if you don't go, the quest doesn't advance?

 

 

Rest of mod went relatively smoothly until talking to a farmer. Jez even had some dialogue that was interesting. Briefly.

 

 

When you talk to a farmer about paint, the game locks all your controls, including all menu access, and then very, very slowly - incredibly slowly - fades to black.

At first I thought it had crashed. Eventually, the fade completes and control is restored.

 

What is supposed to happen?

Whatever it is, it can't have been that.

 

 

Afterwards, you are naked, but certainly not green. Nor do you have a paint item to use.

If you don't have code to make the player green, and then reset it later, I can show how.

 

 

Again, things go smoothly enough until you have to return to the outpost. Finding it, with no marker is a PITA.

When you leave on that quest, the outpost should get a map marker.

 

Then, after you talk to Jez, she heads off to the bonfire in the vale, pathing badly. Instead of going over the bridge, she swims the river.

 

Again, navmeshes aren't quite right.

 

 

Finally, the quest blocks, because Miquote will only talk to you in the prison, but she won't leave the vale by herself.

Eventually, after several days of trying to get her to move of her own accord, I ported her into the prison, and was able to finish the chapter.

 

As with all other parts, there are issues with quest journal updating out of sync with events, but there are times where it works properly.

 

 

The weakness showing at the moment is that you are constantly hearing about being a "pet", but the mod doesn't deliver on this in any way.

Jez's talk of "pets" is the most involving part, but it doesn't lead anywhere, and the experience you have is much more employee than pet: work, eat, train, sleep, repeat. You can pretty much come and go from the outpost as you please, if you don't mind leaving without your gear.

 

Also, there are only a few sex scenes you get in the first two stages, so they quickly become overly familiar.

While you can ask characters for sex, there is no real reason to do so.

 

 

Other than that (totally subjective complaint), there are the usual opaque dialog, pathing, progression, and quest journal issues, which seem to pervade the mod at every step, but only sometimes explode into complete blockers.

 

The outpost has a lot of stuff that shouldn't be there too: doors that go nowhere, doors wired up backwards, the cage you start in is buggy, the weird "Stock cell" full of cultists, and the lack of locks on the prison, including in the training area, where it's all open despite contradictory dialog from the jail keeper.

[Lupine00]

The superduo doesn't work, and instead teleports the PC into void-space where you fall until repositioned into the world, or tcl.

Same basic problem however you trigger it as a PC. In the exhibition you get ported back into the arena.

When you use it in training, you end up in some abandoned part of the world and have to tcl back to the main section.

 

The "experiment" side-quest doesn't seem to work either.

 

After telling you to stand in front of her and stay quiet, Jez simply goes into unarmed fisticuffs stance, and then that's it ... she stays in it forever, and nothing happens.

 

Is there any way to progress it, or is it load an old save and pick a different side-quest time?

 

 

There's an invisible girl in the arena. She can be quite chatty. Is she supposed to be so ... interactive?

 

After every kom animation, I tend to end up buried in the floor and have to flip back and forth between cameras to fix it.

 

 

All the people in the outpost say angry stuff at me in random hellos. They don't like me being naked. It's probably caused by SL Hormones, or DCL.

There might be a way to prevent so much of this with factions.

[Delzaron]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

So, I reloaded and tried finishing the first stage again, and this time when I went into Whiterun, a courier appeared, and quest progressed.

The puzzle part is finding "my mercenary", because the start of the mod is so bugged, you aren't aware there is actually a person at the little ruin Nazeem leads you to. However, there is no obvious other place to try, so I tried that first, and there was, to my surprise, an NPC waiting there.

 

I also tried "not obeying" and spent several days not going there, but there was no punishment. Is there anything, or is it simply that if you don't go, the quest doesn't advance?

 

 

Rest of mod went relatively smoothly until talking to a farmer. Jez even had some dialogue that was interesting. Briefly.

 

 

When you talk to a farmer about paint, the game locks all your controls, including all menu access, and then very, very slowly - incredibly slowly - fades to black.

At first I thought it had crashed. Eventually, the fade completes and control is restored.

 

What is supposed to happen?

Whatever it is, it can't have been that.

 

 

Afterwards, you are naked, but certainly not green. Nor do you have a paint item to use.

If you don't have code to make the player green, and then reset it later, I can show how.

 

 

Again, things go smoothly enough until you have to return to the outpost. Finding it, with no marker is a PITA.

When you leave on that quest, the outpost should get a map marker.

 

Then, after you talk to Jez, she heads off to the bonfire in the vale, pathing badly. Instead of going over the bridge, she swims the river.

 

Again, navmeshes aren't quite right.

 

 

Finally, the quest blocks, because Miquote will only talk to you in the prison, but she won't leave the vale by herself.

Eventually, after several days of trying to get her to move of her own accord, I ported her into the prison, and was able to finish the chapter.

 

As with all other parts, there are issues with quest journal updating out of sync with events, but there are times where it works properly.

 

 

The weakness showing at the moment is that you are constantly hearing about being a "pet", but the mod doesn't deliver on this in any way.

Jez's talk of "pets" is the most involving part, but it doesn't lead anywhere, and the experience you have is much more employee than pet: work, eat, train, sleep, repeat. You can pretty much come and go from the outpost as you please, if you don't mind leaving without your gear.

 

Also, there are only a few sex scenes you get in the first two stages, so they quickly become overly familiar.

While you can ask characters for sex, there is no real reason to do so.

 

 

Other than that (totally subjective complaint), there are the usual opaque dialog, pathing, progression, and quest journal issues, which seem to pervade the mod at every step, but only sometimes explode into complete blockers.

 

The outpost has a lot of stuff that shouldn't be there too: doors that go nowhere, doors wired up backwards, the cage you start in is buggy, the weird "Stock cell" full of cultists, and the lack of locks on the prison, including in the training area, where it's all open despite contradictory dialog from the jail keeper.

Lot of comment... I'll respond as I can.

 

_ yes, the quests progress via courrier

 

- the first quest isnot bugged, It was tested many times, fixed, and it's a simple one.

 

_ about punishements ; of course, it's not yet implemented !

 

- the tats is totoally optionnal. I added this script line because I like. Free to use slavetats and remove it from your NPC.

I could reduce the fade to black time.

 

- the outpost have a marker : Jezera herself. But she's in a small world, so the game could have difficulties to find her.

 

- Miquote seems freezed in a scene... that's a problem.

 

- I can't restrain the player too much. It's not a slavery mod (we have plenty of slavery mod here). After all, you're volunteer !

 

- so, you just don't like my mod... It's your opinion.

Maybe a poll could be usefull... but please understand I'm alone, and I do this on my free time. If I sold it 1$ as prerelease, it's because It's a non professionnal work. We're not with RPG maker games lika Arodovia here (even if I wosh to make a game like that... )

 

- don't open these doors ! they lead to the stocks. You don't need to visit it, it's just the place where I stock my NPCs.

Locks and jail keeper : mouais... cela peut etre utile, mais en même temps ça mettrait en l'air mon actor event...

 

 

[Delzaron]

 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The superduo doesn't work, and instead teleports the PC into void-space where you fall until repositioned into the world, or tcl.

Same basic problem however you trigger it as a PC. In the exhibition you get ported back into the arena.

When you use it in training, you end up in some abandoned part of the world and have to tcl back to the main section.

 

The "experiment" side-quest doesn't seem to work either.

 

After telling you to stand in front of her and stay quiet, Jez simply goes into unarmed fisticuffs stance, and then that's it ... she stays in it forever, and nothing happens.

 

Is there any way to progress it, or is it load an old save and pick a different side-quest time?

 

 

There's an invisible girl in the arena. She can be quite chatty. Is she supposed to be so ... interactive?

 

After every kom animation, I tend to end up buried in the floor and have to flip back and forth between cameras to fix it.

 

 

All the people in the outpost say angry stuff at me in random hellos. They don't like me being naked. It's probably caused by SL Hormones, or DCL.

There might be a way to prevent so much of this with factions.

The superduo works. I upadted my komotor pack just for that.

The bug you see it's because SL doesn't find the anim : the anim is detecte dby name in my script. If you SL doesn't like that, it will screw up...

 

The experiment quest is buggy, yes :

- my package for making jezera launch a spell on the player don't work, and I don't know how to fix that.

 

Invisible girl is normal. She's required for some komotor animations (the enduro). No, she's not suppossed to be so chatty

 

I don't know about kom animations problems... you should ask him about that problem.

 

Yes, I found the naked dialogue in the CK. 

People should not be surprized to see slaves, dibella sisters, beastess, whores, Ysolda, or forsworns half naked or naked.

 

[Lupine00]

15 hours ago, Delzaron said:

- the first quest isnot bugged, It was tested many times, fixed, and it's a simple one.

 

_ about punishements ; of course, it's not yet implemented !

 

- the tats is totoally optionnal. I added this script line because I like. Free to use slavetats and remove it from your NPC.

I could reduce the fade to black time.

 

- the outpost have a marker : Jezera herself. But she's in a small world, so the game could have difficulties to find her.

 

- Miquote seems freezed in a scene... that's a problem.

 

- I can't restrain the player too much. It's not a slavery mod (we have plenty of slavery mod here). After all, you're volunteer !

 

- so, you just don't like my mod... It's your opinion.

 

I've tried to convey this repeatedly, but you aren't really hearing me.

 

The first quest DOES bug. Profoundly. Or put another way, the only mod that exhibits any unexpected bugs on my system is DP, and it exhibits them on the first quest, then more or less works OK (everyone has the bugs I have after that).

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't going to be an issue for others.

 

Just saying that you tried it and it works doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

Trust me. There's a problem. I'm not saying it happens on a totally empty LO, but it happens on a LO that is ... quite bare ... in terms of LL mods, and has nothing contentious or rare in it.

 

While it is almost certainly caused by an interaction with another mod, we're talking about another mod that is very popular:

These are the likely candidates for causing the problem:

• DCL 7.1
• Interesting NPCs
• Immersive Citizens AI Overhaul.

 

These are all popular mods. Very popular. Immersive Citizens has over 1.2 million downloads by over 650,000 different users, and Interesting NPCs has over 3.6 million downloads for over 900,000 users.

 

As for DCL, just about anyone on LL will have it installed, and if they aren't on 7.1 now, they will be on a 7+ release soon - and it USES NAZEEM.

 

Its use of Nazeem has already been shown to conflict with DP by other users, but I don't think it was my problem, as I'd finished all the DCL stuff with him before I even installed DP. DCL was done with him by that point and he was back to being totally vanilla - vanilla in so far that ICAIO has its fingers all over him.

 

 

There are tats I was supposed to have to turn green?

OK. I didn't have such a pack installed. I didn't see any requirement for it mentioned. If it was supposed to install as part of DP, it didn't.

I do have Slavetats, and it does work.

SL Hormones tinting works reliably for me, perhaps you should replicate that?

 

The outpost needs a map marker in the main Skyrim world that marks the entry to the vale. That entry point IS IN the main world, and that's where you add the marker. Markers for people in other worlds have never worked in Skyrim, you can't rely on those.

 

The freedom for the player is not really a problem, it's very practical. Bored with DP? Never mind, you can go and do any quest you like. If you'd set the dialog up to support it, it would be great.

 

The downside is that it contradicts the setting you built - a prison - and the dialogue you have - which implies you can't leave without permission - and the scenarios you create - such as Miquote's vacation.

 

 

You say I don't like your mod?

Finding problems with it doesn't mean I don't like it.

 

It's not that simple. There's a lot here I like, and I can see potential. This could be a great mod if you polish it, but its drowning in little problems - all fixable things - but taken together they drag it down a lot.

 

I don't like the bugs in it.

 

I don't like the defects in the environments you've made, like the prison, and other parts of the outpost - the bad navmeshes, the doors to nowhere, the fragile scripts on the sex-machines etc.

 

And ... I think you missed some opportunities you could easily have grasped (with no extra cost in time to create them) in terms of story-line and characters.

 

 

But I like the idea of it.

 

I like many parts of many of the quests.

 

I like the characters, in so far as I can discern them through the noise of the dialog.

 

I'm still playing it, and still writing all this despite the problems. I have HOPE for it.

 

There is a great mod here, struggling to escape from a burden of totally fixable bugs and problems.

 

I wouldn't waste my time typing these long reports if I thought your mod wasn't worth the effort.

But if you brush bug reports off with "can't reproduce, not a bug" you won't achieve the level of quality you need.

You have a proven track record for making mods, but not fixing bugs, then adding more and more content on top of the bugs, which is inevitably also broken.

Maybe you need to find a cooperator who will help with the bugs? There were several people who wanted to help with TitD IIRC. How about them?

 

 

If you got the bugs out of it and polished it properly, DP could be a mod that was a classic, a mod that everyone on LL tries at least once, like CD or ME.

 

And DP has considerable similarities to CD. CD also has bugs. Quite a few bugs... But Vel has worked tirelessly at fixing bugs before adding new content, and he never gave up and abandoned it. And so, CD is a very well known and popular mod on LL that works reliably for the majority of users. And when they have problems, even minor ones, he goes out of his way to help.

 

 

You want encouragement, and feel I am only harsh and critical...

Maybe that's a reasonable thing to wish for.

 

There are lots of things you got right.

 

Timing wise, there is just about the right amount of grind vs progression. In fact, you could probably add more stuff to stretch it out, like sidequests that just use the vanilla radiant system.

The tone is good, and different. It's not the same old, same old, "you're my slave and I control you now, I'll never let you go" stuff, it has some nuance and the player has at least a half-plausible rationale for doing all this stuff rather than simply killing the lot of them and selling the loot.

You get to sleep in a bed, not a cage. Why not? I think that's a good difference.

In fact, why not abandon being naked all the time, and add some nice slutty outfits to wear? That would fix the comments issue too  

The training is a nice idea - but in practice is not delivering any value - I wish it had a purpose, then it would be immersive.

The interactions between the girls is something so many mods ignore, and you have it.

The intro quest where you follow Nazeem is a good idea. If it had worked for me I'd probably be singing its praises.

The giant quest is short and fun. I didn't need help to guess exactly who to talk to in Markarth; the difficulty was perfect for me.

The party is excellent. It also works quite well, and I had no problems with bugs while playing it. That animation is the most interesting so far too, though I'm not really crazy for creature stuff - it's just very different from the norm, and fits Skyrim, unlike the machines, which feel a bit out of place.

The hints of trouble that come are good. Nice hook. Possible peril. I like that.

I like the design of Chuul, and her general demeanor.

I like that you can come and go from the outpost (I just want dialog that matches that).

I like the idea of the letters asking you back - I assume the immediate delivery is only for testing - but the quest journal updates relating to them need to be different.

I like the "side quests" and the ability to choose. But more information about what is in them would be nice, and it should be in dialog, not an immersion shattering pop-up box.

 

This mod is small enough, and oriented around a small enough physical area (the outpost) to make it really polished.

I hope you will consider that path instead of simply getting bored of it and starting some new project before this one is really ready for a release.

 

 

 

 

With the superduo, I have all the Kom SL animations installed in SexLab, and the latest Kom that is on LL.

Maybe you have a different Kom pack to me?

 

The files I have are:

SLALKomAnim_2.0+.rar

SLALKomAnim2.0+_fix.rar

 

Also, you can avoid a need for players to enable animations by using GetAnimationByRegistry(), but you are probably doing that already.

 

 

But...

 

DP is fixable. It doesn't need a rewrite. Bug fixes yes. Some changes at the start, perhaps. And maybe some small parts that aren't really working need to be removed.

 

The dialog is a big problem. Do you have someone to fix it? You usually have volunteers for that right?

Simply fixing the quirky issues with the quest journal would go a long way to making this feel more polished and functional.

Fixing the pathing ... more conservative/cautious navmeshes, with preferred paths, all properly finalised, would also raise player perception of quality a lot.

 

If you can address just those things, you would have a mod that people can play and not have all their attention taken up by the bugs, allowing them to appreciate the quests, animations, story, etc and have a good experience.

 

 

Here's how to fix your spell casting package for the experiment:

 

Don't bother with a spell casting package. You're doing it the hard way.

 

Use a "scene" to do it all. You can position Jez and the player easily using the scene mechanics.

Simply make Jez play an appropriate animation as an idle and have a script cast the spell.

Easy. Won't fail. No package complexity, and looks right.

Also, using a scene, the player can't break it by running away half way through the process.

This is literally what scenes are for.

 

[Delzaron]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

I've tried to convey this repeatedly, but you aren't really hearing me.

 

The first quest DOES bug. Profoundly. Or put another way, the only mod that exhibits any unexpected bugs on my system is DP, and it exhibits them on the first quest, then more or less works OK (everyone has the bugs I have after that).

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't going to be an issue for others.

 

Just saying that you tried it and it works doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

Trust me. There's a problem. I'm not saying it happens on a totally empty LO, but it happens on a LO that is ... quite bare ... in terms of LL mods, and has nothing contentious or rare in it.

 

While it is almost certainly caused by an interaction with another mod, we're talking about another mod that is very popular:

These are the likely candidates for causing the problem:

• DCL 7.1
• Interesting NPCs
• Immersive Citizens AI Overhaul.

 

These are all popular mods. Very popular. Immersive Citizens has over 1.2 million downloads by over 650,000 different users, and Interesting NPCs has over 3.6 million downloads for over 900,000 users.

 

As for DCL, just about anyone on LL will have it installed, and if they aren't on 7.1 now, they will be on a 7+ release soon - and it USES NAZEEM.

 

Its use of Nazeem has already been shown to conflict with DP by other users, but I don't think it was my problem, as I'd finished all the DCL stuff with him before I even installed DP. DCL was done with him by that point and he was back to being totally vanilla - vanilla in so far that ICAIO has its fingers all over him.

 

 

There are tats I was supposed to have to turn green?

OK. I didn't have such a pack installed. I didn't see any requirement for it mentioned. If it was supposed to install as part of DP, it didn't.

I do have Slavetats, and it does work.

SL Hormones tinting works reliably for me, perhaps you should replicate that?

 

The outpost needs a map marker in the main Skyrim world that marks the entry to the vale. That entry point IS IN the main world, and that's where you add the marker. Markers for people in other worlds have never worked in Skyrim, you can't rely on those.

 

The freedom for the player is not really a problem, it's very practical. Bored with DP? Never mind, you can go and do any quest you like. If you'd set the dialog up to support it, it would be great.

 

The downside is that it contradicts the setting you built - a prison - and the dialogue you have - which implies you can't leave without permission - and the scenarios you create - such as Miquote's vacation.

 

 

You say I don't like your mod?

Finding problems with it doesn't mean I don't like it.

 

It's not that simple. There's a lot here I like, and I can see potential. This could be a great mod if you polish it, but its drowning in little problems - all fixable things - but taken together they drag it down a lot.

 

I don't like the bugs in it.

 

I don't like the defects in the environments you've made, like the prison, and other parts of the outpost - the bad navmeshes, the doors to nowhere, the fragile scripts on the sex-machines etc.

 

And ... I think you missed some opportunities you could easily have grasped (with no extra cost in time to create them) in terms of story-line and characters.

 

 

But I like the idea of it.

 

I like many parts of many of the quests.

 

I like the characters, in so far as I can discern them through the noise of the dialog.

 

I'm still playing it, and still writing all this despite the problems. I have HOPE for it.

 

There is a great mod here, struggling to escape from a burden of totally fixable bugs and problems.

 

I wouldn't waste my time typing these long reports if I thought your mod wasn't worth the effort.

But if you brush bug reports off with "can't reproduce, not a bug" you won't achieve the level of quality you need.

You have a proven track record for making mods, but not fixing bugs, then adding more and more content on top of the bugs, which is inevitably also broken.

Maybe you need to find a cooperator who will help with the bugs? There were several people who wanted to help with TitD IIRC. How about them?

 

 

If you got the bugs out of it and polished it properly, DP could be a mod that was a classic, a mod that everyone on LL tries at least once, like CD or ME.

 

And DP has considerable similarities to CD. CD also has bugs. Quite a few bugs... But Vel has worked tirelessly at fixing bugs before adding new content, and he never gave up and abandoned it. And so, CD is a very well known and popular mod on LL that works reliably for the majority of users. And when they have problems, even minor ones, he goes out of his way to help.

 

 

You want encouragement, and feel I am only harsh and critical...

Maybe that's a reasonable thing to wish for.

 

There are lots of things you got right.

 

Timing wise, there is just about the right amount of grind vs progression. In fact, you could probably add more stuff to stretch it out, like sidequests that just use the vanilla radiant system.

The tone is good, and different. It's not the same old, same old, "you're my slave and I control you now, I'll never let you go" stuff, it has some nuance and the player has at least a half-plausible rationale for doing all this stuff rather than simply killing the lot of them and selling the loot.

You get to sleep in a bed, not a cage. Why not? I think that's a good difference.

In fact, why not abandon being naked all the time, and add some nice slutty outfits to wear? That would fix the comments issue too  

The training is a nice idea - but in practice is not delivering any value - I wish it had a purpose, then it would be immersive.

The interactions between the girls is something so many mods ignore, and you have it.

The intro quest where you follow Nazeem is a good idea. If it had worked for me I'd probably be singing its praises.

The giant quest is short and fun. I didn't need help to guess exactly who to talk to in Markarth; the difficulty was perfect for me.

The party is excellent. It also works quite well, and I had no problems with bugs while playing it. That animation is the most interesting so far too, though I'm not really crazy for creature stuff - it's just very different from the norm, and fits Skyrim, unlike the machines, which feel a bit out of place.

The hints of trouble that come are good. Nice hook. Possible peril. I like that.

I like the design of Chuul, and her general demeanor.

I like that you can come and go from the outpost (I just want dialog that matches that).

I like the idea of the letters asking you back - I assume the immediate delivery is only for testing - but the quest journal updates relating to them need to be different.

I like the "side quests" and the ability to choose. But more information about what is in them would be nice, and it should be in dialog, not an immersion shattering pop-up box.

 

This mod is small enough, and oriented around a small enough physical area (the outpost) to make it really polished.

I hope you will consider that path instead of simply getting bored of it and starting some new project before this one is really ready for a release.

 

 

 

 

With the superduo, I have all the Kom SL animations installed in SexLab, and the latest Kom that is on LL.

Maybe you have a different Kom pack to me?

 

The files I have are:

SLALKomAnim_2.0+.rar

SLALKomAnim2.0+_fix.rar

 

Also, you can avoid a need for players to enable animations by using GetAnimationByRegistry(), but you are probably doing that already.

 

 

But...

 

DP is fixable. It doesn't need a rewrite. Bug fixes yes. Some changes at the start, perhaps. And maybe some small parts that aren't really working need to be removed.

 

The dialog is a big problem. Do you have someone to fix it? You usually have volunteers for that right?

Simply fixing the quirky issues with the quest journal would go a long way to making this feel more polished and functional.

Fixing the pathing ... more conservative/cautious navmeshes, with preferred paths, all properly finalised, would also raise player perception of quality a lot.

 

If you can address just those things, you would have a mod that people can play and not have all their attention taken up by the bugs, allowing them to appreciate the quests, animations, story, etc and have a good experience.

 

 

Here's how to fix your spell casting package for the experiment:

 

Don't bother with a spell casting package. You're doing it the hard way.

 

Use a "scene" to do it all. You can position Jez and the player easily using the scene mechanics.

Simply make Jez play an appropriate animation as an idle and have a script cast the spell.

Easy. Won't fail. No package complexity, and looks right.

Also, using a scene, the player can't break it by running away half way through the process.

This is literally what scenes are for.

 

 

First quest : No, I don't use any of these mods !!!

So, Ok, there could be a massive problem... so, what is your opition( not just you, lupine ! all the poeple who follow the mod !). I'll modofy the first quest, maybe move it to solitude.

 

The tats : ok, problem solved (I guess I need to add an opton to remove it...) I'll reduce the fade to black.

 

I'll set the marker at the outspot entry visible.

 

Player freedom : I wish to enthrall the player only during the 4 first days quest. After, the player is free.

I need to addapt my dialogues.

 

 

It's 3 years now I produce mods.. i know i have a strong tendencie to make lot oc content, but drawning into bugs fixes...

I still maintain my mods, and I pass most of my programmation time to fix bugs.

Of course, I wish to make good mods.

 

Slutty outfit... a suggestion ?

 

Yeah, Training could be better... I think i need to rewrote the four days quest in a more hard way for the player...

 

I have the same pack...   

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Delzaron said:

Player freedom : I wish to enthrall the player only during the 4 first days quest. After, the player is free.

I need to addapt my dialogues.

That would be perfect. It ties up with the story, because you promise to stay for the initial period, and then when you come back the idea of people coming and going is introduced with Miquote.

 

 

With the way hormones does the tinting option, you can just go in racemenu to clear it if it gets stuck when it is supposed to be removed.

 

 

With the startup quest issues. Solitude and Erikur would fix your DCL conflicts, which are known.

You probably still need to manage the target NPC in some different way to avoid Immersive Citizens pain.

 

Whatever is done now can go weirdly wrong, resulting in NPC sitting inside the initial load gate for the outpost and not moving from it. 

It's like they run their package to walk there, and that's it, no other package ever runs, so they sit there.

Then if you port them out of there, they sometimes still won't run a package. Other times, they run something from ICAIO, then choke after a while.

 

Maybe a quick look at how ICAIO is running its Erikur (who seems to travel less than Nazeem anyway) would alert you to a way to turn it off for that NPC while your quest is running. There is probably a property you can set or something.

 

 

Do you call EvaluatePackage() anywhere?  It is a very risky, somewhat broken function, especially with travel packages. Avoid if at all possible. It's generally not needed.

 

 

Slutty outfit ... how about ...

 

Looks more naked than naked  

 

Or https://www.patreon.com/posts/melodic-dress-18764358

Melodic says anyone can use.

 

 

 

For people with DD, you could have the familiar option of putting a chastity belt on the player when they finish a stage and are released.

With some special "training" plugs in it, to help keep them ready for exhibitions.

 

So (in theory) they have to return to get out of the belt.

 

But instead of using one of those annoying impossible to remove "quest" belts, just use a timed one, so after a while, if they don't go back, they can take it off anyway. The DCL belt of shame with the name changed would make a good starting point.

[Delzaron]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

That would be perfect. It ties up with the story, because you promise to stay for the initial period, and then when you come back the idea of people coming and going is introduced with Miquote.

 

 

With the way hormones does the tinting option, you can just go in racemenu to clear it if it gets stuck when it is supposed to be removed.

 

 

With the startup quest issues. Solitude and Erikur would fix your DCL conflicts, which are known.

You probably still need to manage the target NPC in some different way to avoid Immersive Citizens pain.

 

Whatever is done now can go weirdly wrong, resulting in NPC sitting inside the initial load gate for the outpost and not moving from it. 

It's like they run their package to walk there, and that's it, no other package ever runs, so they sit there.

Then if you port them out of there, they sometimes still won't run a package. Other times, they run something from ICAIO, then choke after a while.

 

Maybe a quick look at how ICAIO is running its Erikur (who seems to travel less than Nazeem anyway) would alert you to a way to turn it off for that NPC while your quest is running. There is probably a property you can set or something.

 

 

Do you call EvaluatePackage() anywhere?  It is a very risky, somewhat broken function, especially with travel packages. Avoid if at all possible. It's generally not needed.

 

 

Slutty outfit ... how about ...

 

Looks more naked than naked  

 

Or https://www.patreon.com/posts/melodic-dress-18764358

Melodic says anyone can use.

 

 

 

For people with DD, you could have the familiar option of putting a chastity belt on the player when they finish a stage and are released.

With some special "training" plugs in it, to help keep them ready for exhibitions.

 

So (in theory) they have to return to get out of the belt.

 

But instead of using one of those annoying impossible to remove "quest" belts, just use a timed one, so after a while, if they don't go back, they can take it off anyway. The DCL belt of shame with the name changed would make a good starting point.

Melodie outfit can be good for Jezera, not for the pets.

 

Hum... in soltiude, there is erikur, lisette, gisli, and Anna Venicci (the owner of the manor where is the party, also a molag bal worshiper).

 

I wosh to avoid zaz or DD dependencie, even if it's a good idea.

I already strip the player and the girls from their inventory, so special belts are not needed : they can't have keys.

 

Do you have links for DCL or NPCs mods ?

[Lupine00]

Here's what I see in SLAL:

I rebuilt the registry, no difference.

 

The dwemer sextoy didn't play either.

 

What animation names are superduo and the dwemer toy using?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Delzaron said:

Do you have links for DCL or NPCs mods ?

Really?

 

OK.

 

Immersive Citizens AI Overhaul - this is probably the cause of my broken Nazeem, but it could be this + DCL.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65013/

 

Also, Interesting NPCs, mostly just adds its own NPCs, but you never know.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/8429/

 

 

The best way to do DD deps, if you aren't really reliant on DD, is as a soft-dep. Then people can choose not to use it.

You really only need to shim a couple of functions and some keywords for basic stuff.

 

 

Oh, another detal: Jez is missing her hair texture.

Her mesh points to textures\sghairs\hairsky96.dds

No such directory in the distribution.

 

Are we supposed to install sghairs as a requirement?

SG Hairs just isn't distributed any longer, it's sort of dead, so some people might not have it, or even be able to get it.

[Lupine00]

Quest has blocked after meeting the girls at the bath.

It ticked off joining them, added enjoy the party.

 

I've tried all dialogs, had lots of sex, tried all the other NPCs in the outpost. Nothing. Slept. Nothing. Waited. More sex. Ate food. Waited again. Slept again. Still nothing.

 

...

Resorted to setstage aDP3_Begin 160

This resulted in a threesome (no idea how that could have been triggered otherwise, there was no dialog to do it showing up).

 

After that quest still wouldn't advance itself.

So ... setstage aDP3_Begin 200

 

Now I have "wait Veez"

 

So I wait, and sleep and wait and sleep. He doesn't come.

I go to him. He won't talk.

I summon him to the dungeon. He still won't talk.

At this point I concede it's broken, and only setstage is moving it.

 

Seems time to finally give up.

[Delzaron]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Quest has blocked after meeting the girls at the bath.

It ticked off joining them, added enjoy the party.

 

I've tried all dialogs, had lots of sex, tried all the other NPCs in the outpost. Nothing. Slept. Nothing. Waited. More sex. Ate food. Waited again. Slept again. Still nothing.

 

...

Resorted to setstage aDP3_Begin 160

This resulted in a threesome (no idea how that could have been triggered otherwise, there was no dialog to do it showing up).

 

After that quest still wouldn't advance itself.

So ... setstage aDP3_Begin 200

 

Now I have "wait Veez"

 

So I wait, and sleep and wait and sleep. He doesn't come.

I go to him. He won't talk.

I summon him to the dungeon. He still won't talk.

At this point I concede it's broken, and only setstage is moving it.

 

Seems time to finally give up.

A setstage condition which doesn't work, I guess.

 

 

[Lupine00]

On 11/20/2018 at 7:02 AM, Delzaron said:

A setstage condition which doesn't work, I guess.

I'll try it from an earlier point and see if it's reproducible.

Update ... tried again ... and it stalled in the same place, after first sex session in the baths - stage 150 of aPD3_Begin

 

 

Also, (earlier) after completing the dwemer adventure, Lamaeia wouldn't show up for the group conversation at the end and had to be ported in to progress the quest.

 

 

Can you answer the question about the animations?

I want confirm I really have those animations, and see if I can play them manually.

 

Also, is the missing hair supposed to be in the installation? Or are we supposed to install it ourselves?

[Lupine00]

With aDP3_Begin, I progressed as follows in a third attempt:

 

setstage 160 - sex scene played but no way to advance after

setstage 200 - again, it didn't progress properly. Was asked to talk to Veez, but he had no dialog for me.

setstage 210 - things started working again here, and exhibition proceeded normally.

The animation played, though it seemed to be cut a bit short. It ran longer when I saw it before.

 

After that, all ran smoothly (that is to say, still oddities with quest journal, and all the underlying quirks like pathing etc) until part way into next quest.

 

That was fine until the animation for the "hounds", which did not play.

 

It progressed after that to another side quest, and I picked Quai, because I know the experiment jams up.

 

Quai experiment slightly spoiled by being asked to go meet her, as if she's still in the outpost, when actually she is ... elsewhere in Skyrim.

Not a technical issue, but the dialog could have been clearer on this, and the quest journal could have also hinted at it.

 

When following Alyssa, she has the same problem as other NPCs going through doors. You follow her through, hot on her heels, but she's gone.

I caught up with her in the barracks, behind two closed doors.

 

Similar issues following Quai out of the inn - Quai vanished, I caught up with her at the stables.

She stuck (possibly a pathing problem) around where Nazeem got really interested in staring at Pelagia farm.

Teleporting her very short distances to me unstuck her.

While I have some mods that alter Whiterun area, nothing alters the area where they get stuck, and NPCs from vanilla, and other mods, and guards, all path normally there.

 

She runs everywhere with her weapon out, as if she's stuck in combat.

Inside the cave, I soon lost track of her in the dark and didn't find her again until I got to the bandit boss. She killed a lot of the bandits, but magically teleported past a lot too.

She should probably follow the player more normally once inside the cave, and communicate her wants via dialog. As it is, she just runs off and you lose her. Maybe not in vanilla, but with my ENB those caves are DARK, and all I have is a little candlelight spell to see by.

[Lupine00]

After killing the target on Quai's sidequest, there was no dialog or advancement. Again had to setstage until Quai had the correct dialog available.

Hidden a lot of spoiler detail:

Spoiler

 

On return to the outpost, similar problems occurred, and it was impossible to deliver Quai home without more setstages.

 

Then after completing the sidequest, the Molag quest was also stuck, and no amount of sleeping, training and eating would advance it.

Setstage advanced this to the "meet in the hall".

However, nobody except me arrived in the hall. Setstage made a character appear, but still no interaction. Setstage again made the character leave the hall and a meeting seemed to occur in the prison room, contradicting dialog/quest journal. The dialog about the ballroom seems to be referring to a later meeting, in the next quest.

After the meeting in the prison, go up, talk to Jez in her room, the quest works from there.

 

Return to the outpost works, but then quest stalls again. Talking to Jez after the intro, there's a weird "hitch", and Jez seems to freeze. Some odd script running there.

 

Debug messages about a cart to return keep scrolling past.

 

Quest does not advance. Setstage triggers the meeting in the ballroom, which seems to have been what was referred to in previous quest.

Ballroom meeting stalls, and must be setstaged.

Then MB arrives, again no progression.

Setstage has to be advanced multiple times.

The player is force-walked out of the room, and left stranded outside, with controls locked.

Further setstage walks the player back in again.

Still everything is stuck and nobody has anything but default dialogues.

From the console it's apparent cultists should be present, but they never showed up.

 

This is basically the default behaviour of the entire mod: required NPC does not show up to a quest stage, and everything stalls. Player has no idea who is missing.

 

A lot of the time the player is left with a journal entry that gives no clue what they should do to advance the stage, even if it seems to be working.

 

Debug messages saying that various "<name> is already used" scroll past.

MB gets put in wrong animations as the victim. Repeatedly. Over and over, MB is raped by the girls with strapons, baseball bats, etc.

 

MB has random inherited dialog, so he chats about owing you money and other utter nonsense.

 

Player is asked to follow orders, but orders are never given.

 

MB finally gets some dialog (previously had nothing at all), but it's just the regular "Want some pleasure?" and he responses with "Worshipping Molag Bal is so fun." This is the same dialog regular guests use.

 

Asking others about pleasure often results in "Lick my honey kitten," response, but then KomMachine table plays. KomMachine table plays a lot. I watched it about twelve times.

 

The baseball bat animation also plays repeatedly, again with MB, who doesn't seem right in that animation no matter which side he's on.

 

Chuul and Jezera end up invisible (HDT bug) after being snap-teleported to MB, though eventually I was able to track them down and fix them again with the console.

 

Several stages between MB wants to fuck me and the end of the sequence worked, but it locked up at the end again, and had to be finished with setstage.

 

 

Clearly, this sequence isn't working at all, in any way, and even setstage doesn't help.

 

Poor old DP just can't catch a break with the HDT bug. Either vital characters fail to be teleported in when they should be, or characters who were present are teleported needlessly (because they took too long to arrive in place for SexLab) and get made invisible by the HDT bug. Unlucky!

 

 

So, it feels like most, or maybe all of DP is over, and some issues are particularly consistent.

 

 

DP fails to properly progress quests for one of two reasons, in just about every instance.

 

1) Required NPCs are not present so scenes don't start.

 

2) You have to talk to an individual NPC, but when you talk to them, the necessary dialog is missing and you can't progress.

 

 

(1) is clearly happening because of problems with AI packages, that simply don't run when they should, and pathing.

 

Pathing is a massive problem, throughout pretty much every quest. Time and time again, characters walk into tables, or get lost going down a corridor, or stuck on a corner of an archway.

 

Travelling through doors is consistently and reliably broken. NPCs come out in the wrong place after traversing a door, very often, very frequently.

 

 

(2) is harder to explain. In some cases the conversation seems to require you to be in a certain place, and won't appear otherwise. As the NPCs are determined to stand in particular places, and the player cannot know where to teleport them to make things work (and shouldn't have to anyway), this is a consistent problem.

 

I suspect many other dialogs fail because they require you to be in the quest stage they are supposed to progress you to, and can never, ever show up - but that is just a guess.

 

 

Looking even deeper for root causes for this consistent pattern of repeating bugs, my guess is that there are again, two core issues:

 

(a) Poor workflow during development. Quest stages and their dialogs are not adequately planned, so stages have to be updated in conditions, and dialogs easily end up out of sync with the stages. Failure to check and test these conditions is also part of a flawed workflow that leads to avoidable mistakes. Haste at the start leads to bogging down in bugs at the end.

 

(b) Flawed technical underpinnings. For example, this entire mod relies on a very consistent pattern of manipulating NPC positions. More or less every quest is about meeting an NPC in a location and initiating a dialog. The NPCs move from place to place, and you have to follow them, or run back and forth between them. However, the code for getting NPCs from place to place simply doesn't do its job. It fails, in well over half the instances.

 

That code is not working and it needs a serious rethink.

 

If that one task of getting NPCs to the right place at the right time worked reliably, a huge number of the observed bugs would go away.

 

Also, trickier quest design could have made it so that the required NPCs can always be teleported, by ensuring that they are "off camera" while the PC is speaking to some other NPC. This would have greatly reduced the complexity of the problem that DP faces.

 

e.g.

Spoiler

 

Instead of talking to Jezera, and she then sends you and Weez to the prison, then you talk to Quai while Weez watches, then he is supposed to lead you back to Jezera, where a scene involving Quai, Weez, and Jezera is supposed to occur ...

 

Have the PC talk to Jezera in her room, making sure Weez is NOT THERE and out of sight before the scene starts. Port Weez to the prison as the PC gets mid-way through the dialog. The PC then has to go back to the prison alone, and finds Weez waiting ready.

 

Quai is artfully positioned down in the bath, so when you talk to her Weez can safely be ported back to Jezera. Then, you go back to talk to Jezera and Weez, without Quai.

 

While the PC is in a scene with Jezera and Weez, nailed down and controls disabled, Quai is ported into the next room and allowed to walk in via pathing. Hopefully she can make it that short distance in reliable time. Preferred pathing and properly tested, finalized navmeshes might help there.

 

In the above example, nothing is "lost", the same characters are in most of the same scenes, where they matter, but the requirement for the PC to constantly follow an NPC who cannot properly navigate the outpost is removed.

 

 

 

There are other touches that would help make everything seem like it's been done on purpose, with patience, love and attention, rather than creating the impression it was all produced after drinking twenty cups of coffee and staying up past 4am working in a frenzy until the exhausted modder falls unconscious at the keyboard with their nose on the space bar. I'm actually a little bit worried that Delazon may have made DP pretty much that way, and it can't be good for his health!

 

e.g. Use a global variable to toggle all the "default dialogs" on and off in important quest sections. When story is happening, default chats should be hidden.

Spoiler

When we are in the climactic sex scenes, we shouldn't have the option to chat to Quai about her "story", which we've already heard ten times anyway, and participated in the related side quest for.

 

Update some of the default dialogs as the mod progresses. When we do a character's side quest, the mod should acknowledge it with dialog changes on them and Jezera. It doesn't need to be a novel, but a single line would be something.

 

Give Jezera some actual default dialog. Right now she's mostly "Uh huh? Need something? Can I help you?" as she spends her entire life at the alchemy table. God forbid you ever got her as an SD+ master, as she would make anyone hit the Pray to Sanguine button.

 

 

When the mod promises things, it should follow up. Repeatedly, the mod (via Jezera) promises it will find a way to make you a "pet", but that's clearly not what happens. If you can't follow up, don't promise it, instead do things to make the player look forward to the stuff the mod actually delivers.

 

 

 

The final ball probably would have been pretty good, if it had worked, and the cultists had shown up, and the animations were appropriate, and the dialog was more varied, and more relevant. The music was good, the visuals were good, but nobody was in the right place at the right time, and nobody had anything even remotely interesting to say - when they had anything to say at all.

 

 

If everything in DP worked smoothly, the animations always played right, the characters were in the right places at the right times, the quest journal was always on-point, and the dialog was tidied up to the point where it's legitimately in English, it would be a fun sort of quest. Not great, but people would enjoy and appreciate it.

 

 

But to get to the next level, it needs to do a bit more. Not a lot more, just a bit. Personally, I'd say time is better spent doing that than starting yet another mod.

 

 

What might elevate it?

Spoiler

 

i) something else to do in the outpost besides trigger sex animations you see plenty of elsewhere.

ii) dialog that recognises your achievements at each stage, and commemorates what you've done.

iii) more dialog options on the girls, that change as the mod progresses instead of staying very rigid.

iv) filler tasks to complete outside the outpost *between* working there. "Before you come back, I need you to get me a <thing>." or "Before you come back, please deliver this <thing> to <person>." This would make the player more eager to return to the outpost.

v) a conflict between the girls that you help resolve.

vi) a relationship between the player and Jezera that feels like it changes somehow as you progress the story.

 

Finally, a "slavery" mod with no slavery, no devices, no punishments, no rewards other than cash certainly isn't a slavery mod.

If the aim is to make a prostitution mod, then play it that way all the time and do away with the "pet" stuff.

 

Instead, create a bookend quest where the player must raise some absolutely absurd amount of money to save or help somebody in peril, and working for Jezera is the only way to do it.

 

But to constantly tease us with the idea of a dominant-submissive relationship, then not deliver... It's a little disappointing, and a lot frustrating.

 

It's one thing to say "I want this to be different to TitD", that's fine, but the vision here is muddy. There are good things in this mod, and it could do more to emphasise them, instead of foreshadowing content it doesn't have.

 

 

I love Delazon because he makes the sort of mods I want to play. He has characters I want to see, and stories that promise big things. He has great ideas, and huge ambitions.

 

But I hate it when that story I wanted to enjoy so much is just a succession of bugs and setstages, and the dialog is kind of ... and then the big things that were promised don't arrive, or if they do, they feel small because the constant problems destroy any sense of story.

 

It seems sad, because he has done so much. If any one of his mods were genuinely finished, it would be a legend.

[Delzaron]

On 11/23/2018 at 4:27 PM, Lupine00 said:

With aDP3_Begin, I progressed as follows in a third attempt:

 

setstage 160 - sex scene played but no way to advance after

setstage 200 - again, it didn't progress properly. Was asked to talk to Veez, but he had no dialog for me.

setstage 210 - things started working again here, and exhibition proceeded normally.

The animation played, though it seemed to be cut a bit short. It ran longer when I saw it before.

 

Bugs to Fix...

adp3_begin 160 : go to bed. I'll add this in the quest journal.

200 : dialogue corrupted : it need a replacement.

 

On 11/23/2018 at 4:27 PM, Lupine00 said:

After that, all ran smoothly (that is to say, still oddities with quest journal, and all the underlying quirks like pathing etc) until part way into next quest.

 

That was fine until the animation for the "hounds", which did not play.

I works for me... Anna should mate with an hound too...

 

On 11/23/2018 at 4:27 PM, Lupine00 said:

 

It progressed after that to another side quest, and I picked Quai, because I know the experiment jams up.

 

Quai experiment slightly spoiled by being asked to go meet her, as if she's still in the outpost, when actually she is ... elsewhere in Skyrim.

Not a technical issue, but the dialog could have been clearer on this, and the quest journal could have also hinted at it.

Quai is in the bannered mare.

 

On 11/23/2018 at 4:27 PM, Lupine00 said:

 

When following Alyssa, she has the same problem as other NPCs going through doors. You follow her through, hot on her heels, but she's gone.

I caught up with her in the barracks, behind two closed doors.

The scene is not perfect... You and ALysse are supposed to gangbang with the guards (so Quai get time to inspect Caius home...)

 

On 11/23/2018 at 4:27 PM, Lupine00 said:

 

Similar issues following Quai out of the inn - Quai vanished, I caught up with her at the stables.

She stuck (possibly a pathing problem) around where Nazeem got really interested in staring at Pelagia farm.

Teleporting her very short distances to me unstuck her.

While I have some mods that alter Whiterun area, nothing alters the area where they get stuck, and NPCs from vanilla, and other mods, and guards, all path normally there.

 

She runs everywhere with her weapon out, as if she's stuck in combat.

Inside the cave, I soon lost track of her in the dark and didn't find her again until I got to the bandit boss. She killed a lot of the bandits, but magically teleported past a lot too.

She should probably follow the player more normally once inside the cave, and communicate her wants via dialog. As it is, she just runs off and you lose her. Maybe not in vanilla, but with my ENB those caves are DARK, and all I have is a little candlelight spell to see by.

Yeah, that part is not so good.... I should invert the role (Quai will follow you, so you can't lost her), and add more dialogues about Quai past... it's a revenge quest here.

 

 

On 11/24/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lupine00 said:

After killing the target on Quai's sidequest, there was no dialog or advancement. Again had to setstage until Quai had the correct dialog available.

Hidden a lot of spoiler detail:

  Hide contents

 

On return to the outpost, similar problems occurred, and it was impossible to deliver Quai home without more setstages.

 

Then after completing the sidequest, the Molag quest was also stuck, and no amount of sleeping, training and eating would advance it.

Setstage advanced this to the "meet in the hall".

However, nobody except me arrived in the hall. Setstage made a character appear, but still no interaction. Setstage again made the character leave the hall and a meeting seemed to occur in the prison room, contradicting dialog/quest journal. The dialog about the ballroom seems to be referring to a later meeting, in the next quest.

After the meeting in the prison, go up, talk to Jez in her room, the quest works from there.

 

Return to the outpost works, but then quest stalls again. Talking to Jez after the intro, there's a weird "hitch", and Jez seems to freeze. Some odd script running there.

 

Debug messages about a cart to return keep scrolling past.

 

Quest does not advance. Setstage triggers the meeting in the ballroom, which seems to have been what was referred to in previous quest.

Ballroom meeting stalls, and must be setstaged.

Then MB arrives, again no progression.

Setstage has to be advanced multiple times.

The player is force-walked out of the room, and left stranded outside, with controls locked.

Further setstage walks the player back in again.

Still everything is stuck and nobody has anything but default dialogues.

From the console it's apparent cultists should be present, but they never showed up.

 

This is basically the default behaviour of the entire mod: required NPC does not show up to a quest stage, and everything stalls. Player has no idea who is missing.

 

A lot of the time the player is left with a journal entry that gives no clue what they should do to advance the stage, even if it seems to be working.

 

Debug messages saying that various "<name> is already used" scroll past.

MB gets put in wrong animations as the victim. Repeatedly. Over and over, MB is raped by the girls with strapons, baseball bats, etc.

 

MB has random inherited dialog, so he chats about owing you money and other utter nonsense.

 

Player is asked to follow orders, but orders are never given.

 

MB finally gets some dialog (previously had nothing at all), but it's just the regular "Want some pleasure?" and he responses with "Worshipping Molag Bal is so fun." This is the same dialog regular guests use.

 

Asking others about pleasure often results in "Lick my honey kitten," response, but then KomMachine table plays. KomMachine table plays a lot. I watched it about twelve times.

 

The baseball bat animation also plays repeatedly, again with MB, who doesn't seem right in that animation no matter which side he's on.

 

Chuul and Jezera end up invisible (HDT bug) after being snap-teleported to MB, though eventually I was able to track them down and fix them again with the console.

 

Several stages between MB wants to fuck me and the end of the sequence worked, but it locked up at the end again, and had to be finished with setstage.

 

 

Clearly, this sequence isn't working at all, in any way, and even setstage doesn't help.

 

Poor old DP just can't catch a break with the HDT bug. Either vital characters fail to be teleported in when they should be, or characters who were present are teleported needlessly (because they took too long to arrive in place for SexLab) and get made invisible by the HDT bug. Unlucky!

 

 

So, it feels like most, or maybe all of DP is over, and some issues are particularly consistent.

 

 

DP fails to properly progress quests for one of two reasons, in just about every instance.

 

1) Required NPCs are not present so scenes don't start.

 

2) You have to talk to an individual NPC, but when you talk to them, the necessary dialog is missing and you can't progress.

 

 

(1) is clearly happening because of problems with AI packages, that simply don't run when they should, and pathing.

 

Pathing is a massive problem, throughout pretty much every quest. Time and time again, characters walk into tables, or get lost going down a corridor, or stuck on a corner of an archway.

I reworked the small world... so the caslte is not anymore an outpost, but a true vampiric castle... it need a complete refreshement, so a complete navmeshes redone. I hope it will solve the problem.

I think to base the castle Senghit (it's the name of the castle now) on Volkihar one, and maybe adding servants, and a real salon for the guests... and a prison, and a nicer pets quarter.

 

On 11/24/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lupine00 said:

 

Travelling through doors is consistently and reliably broken. NPCs come out in the wrong place after traversing a door, very often, very frequently.

It's due to the doors separators... player and NPCs doesn't like them...

 

On 11/24/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lupine00 said:

 

(2) is harder to explain. In some cases the conversation seems to require you to be in a certain place, and won't appear otherwise. As the NPCs are determined to stand in particular places, and the player cannot know where to teleport them to make things work (and shouldn't have to anyway), this is a consistent problem.

 

I suspect many other dialogs fail because they require you to be in the quest stage they are supposed to progress you to, and can never, ever show up - but that is just a guess.

 

 

Looking even deeper for root causes for this consistent pattern of repeating bugs, my guess is that there are again, two core issues:

 

(a) Poor workflow during development. Quest stages and their dialogs are not adequately planned, so stages have to be updated in conditions, and dialogs easily end up out of sync with the stages. Failure to check and test these conditions is also part of a flawed workflow that leads to avoidable mistakes. Haste at the start leads to bogging down in bugs at the end.

 

(b) Flawed technical underpinnings. For example, this entire mod relies on a very consistent pattern of manipulating NPC positions. More or less every quest is about meeting an NPC in a location and initiating a dialog. The NPCs move from place to place, and you have to follow them, or run back and forth between them. However, the code for getting NPCs from place to place simply doesn't do its job. It fails, in well over half the instances.

 

That code is not working and it needs a serious rethink.

 

If that one task of getting NPCs to the right place at the right time worked reliably, a huge number of the observed bugs would go away.

 

Also, trickier quest design could have made it so that the required NPCs can always be teleported, by ensuring that they are "off camera" while the PC is speaking to some other NPC. This would have greatly reduced the complexity of the problem that DP faces.

 

This is scenario rebuilting.... the major content of DP is now implemented, so I could spend time on polishing.

 

On 11/24/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lupine00 said:

 

e.g.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

There are other touches that would help make everything seem like it's been done on purpose, with patience, love and attention, rather than creating the impression it was all produced after drinking twenty cups of coffee and staying up past 4am working in a frenzy until the exhausted modder falls unconscious at the keyboard with their nose on the space bar. I'm actually a little bit worried that Delazon may have made DP pretty much that way, and it can't be good for his health!

 

e.g. Use a global variable to toggle all the "default dialogs" on and off in important quest sections. When story is happening, default chats should be hidden.

  Hide contents

When we are in the climactic sex scenes, we shouldn't have the option to chat to Quai about her "story", which we've already heard ten times anyway, and participated in the related side quest for.

 

Update some of the default dialogs as the mod progresses. When we do a character's side quest, the mod should acknowledge it with dialog changes on them and Jezera. It doesn't need to be a novel, but a single line would be something.

 

Give Jezera some actual default dialog. Right now she's mostly "Uh huh? Need something? Can I help you?" as she spends her entire life at the alchemy table. God forbid you ever got her as an SD+ master, as she would make anyone hit the Pray to Sanguine button.

 

 

When the mod promises things, it should follow up. Repeatedly, the mod (via Jezera) promises it will find a way to make you a "pet", but that's clearly not what happens. If you can't follow up, don't promise it, instead do things to make the player look forward to the stuff the mod actually delivers.

 

 

 

The final ball probably would have been pretty good, if it had worked, and the cultists had shown up, and the animations were appropriate, and the dialog was more varied, and more relevant. The music was good, the visuals were good, but nobody was in the right place at the right time, and nobody had anything even remotely interesting to say - when they had anything to say at all.

 

 

If everything in DP worked smoothly, the animations always played right, the characters were in the right places at the right times, the quest journal was always on-point, and the dialog was tidied up to the point where it's legitimately in English, it would be a fun sort of quest. Not great, but people would enjoy and appreciate it.

 

 

But to get to the next level, it needs to do a bit more. Not a lot more, just a bit. Personally, I'd say time is better spent doing that than starting yet another mod.

 

 

What might elevate it?

Hum... I spent already almost all my free time on coding... it's also participate to my depression...

 

And I have NMM and a dwemer project to code too !

 

I put TID in boxes for now, until the others are not finished...

 

 

 

On 11/24/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lupine00 said:

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i) something else to do in the outpost besides trigger sex animations you see plenty of elsewhere.

ii) dialog that recognises your achievements at each stage, and commemorates what you've done.

iii) more dialog options on the girls, that change as the mod progresses instead of staying very rigid.

iv) filler tasks to complete outside the outpost *between* working there. "Before you come back, I need you to get me a <thing>." or "Before you come back, please deliver this <thing> to <person>." This would make the player more eager to return to the outpost.

v) a conflict between the girls that you help resolve.

vi) a relationship between the player and Jezera that feels like it changes somehow as you progress the story.

 

Finally, a "slavery" mod with no slavery, no devices, no punishments, no rewards other than cash certainly isn't a slavery mod.

If the aim is to make a prostitution mod, then play it that way all the time and do away with the "pet" stuff.

 

Instead, create a bookend quest where the player must raise some absolutely absurd amount of money to save or help somebody in peril, and working for Jezera is the only way to do it.

 

But to constantly tease us with the idea of a dominant-submissive relationship, then not deliver... It's a little disappointing, and a lot frustrating.

It's one thing to say "I want this to be different to TitD", that's fine, but the vision here is muddy. There are good things in this mod, and it could do more to emphasise them, instead of foreshadowing content it doesn't have.

 

 

I love Delazon because he makes the sort of mods I want to play. He has characters I want to see, and stories that promise big things. He has great ideas, and huge ambitions.

 

But I hate it when that story I wanted to enjoy so much is just a succession of bugs and setstages, and the dialog is kind of ... and then the big things that were promised don't arrive, or if they do, they feel small because the constant problems destroy any sense of story.

 

It seems sad, because he has done so much. If any one of his mods were genuinely finished, it would be a legend.

?

What different answer I could say ?...

I make the best I can, with my time and capacities...

 

Basically, Deadly Pleasures was just a mod designed to trigger komotor animations... after a time, we decided to make something original, and I continued to develop the stuff in that way.

My priority was to implement the mod major content, and make it functionnable. The mod evoluate (I already take count of your remarks, and moved the intro into solitude. More, I modified the small world, and it's a castle now, not an oupost...)

 

[Lupine00]

I went back to use the MO profile with DP in it for some further play...

 

Turns out that DP has broken my ability to use alchemy tables and enchanting tables!

 

e.g.

DP.esp and mod installed, any save with DP in ... tables broken ... PC starts to use table, brings up menu then immediately backs out of it, exiting crafting.

You cannot do alchemy or enchanting!

 

However...

Same profile, DP mod disabled in MO (KomAnims still in), reload old save from before DP added ... alchemy and enchanting working as normal.

 

The only mod being added or removed is DP, at the very end of the LO.

 

How on earth it's done this, I can only guess... Running a contentious script on activating anything?

 

Can anyone else reproduce?