Veladarius Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Basically I have done the opposite of what everyone says to do and not to do: - my ini file is heavily modified, particularly with every multithreaded command I could find. - I never use LOOT (or anything else that set the load order) as I do it myself - I have never cleaned any of my mods - I use an ancient version of NMM (v0.56 I think) - have added major mods mid game (but never remove or update them unless starting a new one) - I don't use USLEEP, I still have old versions of the separate unofficial Patches. - The last time I did a reinstall of Skyrim was several years ago and that was only because the drive it was on was failing and I had to replace it. - I don't update mods unless there is a bug that I have issues with that has been fixed or there are features in the new version I want to use. -same here, you saw a difference with those cpu tweaks? doubt that do anything I have seen some improvement in places with them though that was some time ago when I was still using my core2 quad 6600. -loot it's just to move the master of mod x above it, if you can see mod x have y as master, nothing complicated to move it under mod y I can do that myself in Wryebash and I prefer to keep my mods organized by types for the most part, the more of an impact they have on the world the higher up they go. - that's just to remove dirty edits (you click on something, did nothing to it, but it get in the esp, that's removed because a mod may really edit that stuff, and it's faster to delete those dirty edits than checking conflicts) (some dirty edits are there in case another mod edit that something, and it can be troubles if a mod edit that something) - you have it the hard way when there's a conflict - it's what the mod edit that matter, civil war scripts are load in your save when you click on new game, you can't add or remove civil war overhaul without having problems (you can't load the save in tesedit to check what there is in it) All scripts load when starting a game, new or not and is why there are usually a lot of errors regarding missing properties or such things at the very start of the log. -usleep is just a merge of those unofpatch, using the original esp or the merge doesn't change anything (unless you have mods that want unof dawnguard and other mods that want unof legendary, useless troubles) I don't have any issues with my game that requires updating to it so I won't bother. If I saw issues in my game that would be corrected with it then I would update. -haven't reinstall skyrim since 3 years, can no longer break it i use mo As I said, the only reason I reinstalled Skyrim last was due to a drive failure. I was able to save most everything beforehand but the game files had some issues, for the most part it wasn't a full install but just having steam recheck the files and a number of them were corrupt. -you have problems with a quest, update fix it, game will load the quest that is already in your save, how that will run with the new esp? surprise (same as civil war exemple) I already know that a lot of things don't change once the game is saved, I found this out with AI packages during CD development. As for Civil War overhaul, I wouldn't touch it, ever. you forgot the biggest taboo messing with skyrim.esm (you have to rename it to edit it now... why would i make an esp for stuff i won't uninstall later) I rarely change existing things unless I have to and would never change any of the game's esm files directly, I prefer to make copies of the items (such as the interior of the Thalmor Embassy and its npc's or the Emperor's Tower in v4) if I intend to change something with them. The only areas I have made major changes to is the area where the shop in CD is and the addition of markers in various locations.
yatol Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 All scripts load when starting a game, new or not and is why there are usually a lot of errors regarding missing properties or such things at the very start of the log. why would the game load all scripts? persistant stuff is persistant, and that's most of those errors there's also the quests that don't require quest x done, level x, whatever but the rest, you have to get to it to have the error in your log (if there's a problem) you want a list of all you scripts that have problems? try loading your load order in crap kit, there's a txt with everything it don't like (stuff that will ctd the game too, and crap kit too if you try to go to that cell)
Veladarius Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 All scripts load when starting a game, new or not and is why there are usually a lot of errors regarding missing properties or such things at the very start of the log. why would the game load all scripts? persistant stuff is persistant, and that's most of those errors there's also the quests that don't require quest x done, level x, whatever but the rest, you have to get to it to have the error in your log (if there's a problem) you want a list of all you scripts that have problems? try loading your load order in crap kit, there's a txt with everything it don't like (stuff that will ctd the game too, and crap kit too if you try to go to that cell) I don't know why it does it but it does. I had errors coming from scripts that were on disabled items and scenes and other things some of which were not even used. None of them were game killers especially since they were generally for properties that were not even in use in the script at all but it still complained that the properties were missing.
yatol Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 I don't know why it does it but it does. I had errors coming from scripts that were on disabled items not because house01destroyed have flag disabled game don't load it, you won't see it in game, that's all house01 is still there when the siege quest add flag disable to it, and remove it from housedestroyed, you can now see those custom armors you download are also use by nothing, you can still get them in game with the mod additem that stuff referenced by nothing get in your game with scripts (quest x load aela werewolf, quest y load battle tulius, quest y give wedding dress to don't remember)
RitualClarity Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 That is just a cheap shortcut to avoid supporting the mod. If it is loaded last it wins the conflict war, pure and simple. It works there, so no added support or fixes needed from the author. Many authors will still provide excellent support however some use that as an excuse not to do any more work or give any support. That isn't the way to install mods or give instructions. It doesn't help people learn and grow or use your mods. Well in the case of XPMSE, that's certainly not justified. Groovtama has done a great service to the modding community and given huge amounts of supports as well. Maybe the description with high/low in the load order was a misunderstanding - high could mean a high number in the plugin count, but looking at the graphical display of the mod/plugin list in a mod manager, high means top where the lowest numbers are. I'm pretty sure that LOOT will also have your load order end in XPMSE->Live Another Life as per author instructions. Whatever. I just felt the need to mention this specifically, because the loading CTDs have plagued me for a long time (even though i only did screenshots and other modding without playing for a couple of years now). After following halofarm's advice to put XPMSE before the posing mods, these loading CTDs were gone instantly. My issue isn't that a mod needs to be low in an load order but it is constantly claimed to be the last one. Some need to be near the last (in some cases the last one) because they need to be there to overwrite the needed files to get desired results. FYI... my XPMSE is near the bottom but not the last as I need that space for patches and such. However, it is quite low in my load order as I need to do so to overwrite all the files added by other authors to get the desired results. However, it isn't the very last mod (even discounting my patches and such) and other mods are after that one because it isn't needed to be the very very last mod. It just needs to be below all the conflicting files to win and function properly. Also, jut to be clear this wasn't directed at Groovtama or anyone directly. It is the "practice" of telling people to do so as a shortcut. Those (many) that just force it to be done for support reasons etc, etc. and are very strong about it being the absolute last mod is part of the issue. Us experienced mod users (and creators) know why this is being done and can make reasonable adjustments as needed and the sky won't fall. The issue is newer members (perhaps the OP) have confusions when this is said as too many state this as a fact. Not all mods can be the very last mod in the load order (even without patches being used) That is the issue. It is a bad practice for many if not most mods. They don't need to be the very last, they need to be the very last mod in a list of like mods in order to win the conflict war to function properly. Pure and simple. The practice of giving that as a blank factual, non wavering answer is a bad practice because it is very confusing to very new mod users that don't understand modding or even what it is all about yet. It really should be avoided because of this. IT is a bad practice done by some very good mod authors.
svartur Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 These are the ini settings I use for papyrus: fUpdateBudgetMS=1.2 fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=2.0 fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=1000.0 iMinMemoryPageSize=128 iMaxMemoryPageSize=512 iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=76800 I rarely have a ctd and that is with sessions lasting several hours. As for the ini values if you are using a number of mods that can suddenly run a number of functions at one you should increase the resources for papyrus but the first set of values you were given are a bit much. Possible I'm just using very old ideas. I'll give this a try now and if all is well then silly me for being wrong. Basically I have done the opposite of what everyone says to do and not to do: - my ini file is heavily modified, particularly with every multithreaded command I could find. - I never use LOOT (or anything else that set the load order) as I do it myself - I have never cleaned any of my mods - I use an ancient version of NMM (v0.56 I think) - have added major mods mid game (but never remove or update them unless starting a new one) - I don't use USLEEP, I still have old versions of the separate unofficial Patches. - The last time I did a reinstall of Skyrim was several years ago and that was only because the drive it was on was failing and I had to replace it. - I don't update mods unless there is a bug that I have issues with that has been fixed or there are features in the new version I want to use. At this point I have 7600 hours in Skyrim and 6400 hours in the CK. Gave it a good solid 20 hours of playing again to see if anything broke. The only thing that started to CTD again was Quick Loot (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/73096/?) But that mod was temperamental to begin with and the CTD is avoidable by just toggling it when using containers with very large numbers of items in it. So YAY! I gained back like. 5FPS in crowded spaces overall =P (Averaging 50FPS instead of 45)
Blackhearted Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 With Skyrim? I'm lucky if I make it 1 hour, especially if I am running around in a city going in and out of a lot of buildings or going cross country. The only time the game really behaves is when I'm in a dungeon with no followers. I have New Vegas going pretty stable though and although I haven't clocked it I've managed to sit down and spend an evening playing without any crashes at least once or twice. Most days it will freeze up at least once.
Andy14 Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 That is just a cheap shortcut to avoid supporting the mod. If it is loaded last it wins the conflict war, pure and simple. It works there, so no added support or fixes needed from the author. Many authors will still provide excellent support however some use that as an excuse not to do any more work or give any support. That isn't the way to install mods or give instructions. It doesn't help people learn and grow or use your mods. Well in the case of XPMSE, that's certainly not justified. Groovtama has done a great service to the modding community and given huge amounts of supports as well. Maybe the description with high/low in the load order was a misunderstanding - high could mean a high number in the plugin count, but looking at the graphical display of the mod/plugin list in a mod manager, high means top where the lowest numbers are. I'm pretty sure that LOOT will also have your load order end in XPMSE->Live Another Life as per author instructions. Whatever. I just felt the need to mention this specifically, because the loading CTDs have plagued me for a long time (even though i only did screenshots and other modding without playing for a couple of years now). After following halofarm's advice to put XPMSE before the posing mods, these loading CTDs were gone instantly. My issue isn't that a mod needs to be low in an load order but it is constantly claimed to be the last one. Some need to be near the last (in some cases the last one) because they need to be there to overwrite the needed files to get desired results. FYI... my XPMSE is near the bottom but not the last as I need that space for patches and such. However, it is quite low in my load order as I need to do so to overwrite all the files added by other authors to get the desired results. However, it isn't the very last mod (even discounting my patches and such) and other mods are after that one because it isn't needed to be the very very last mod. It just needs to be below all the conflicting files to win and function properly. Also, jut to be clear this wasn't directed at Groovtama or anyone directly. It is the "practice" of telling people to do so as a shortcut. Those (many) that just force it to be done for support reasons etc, etc. and are very strong about it being the absolute last mod is part of the issue. Us experienced mod users (and creators) know why this is being done and can make reasonable adjustments as needed and the sky won't fall. The issue is newer members (perhaps the OP) have confusions when this is said as too many state this as a fact. Not all mods can be the very last mod in the load order (even without patches being used) That is the issue. It is a bad practice for many if not most mods. They don't need to be the very last, they need to be the very last mod in a list of like mods in order to win the conflict war to function properly. Pure and simple. The practice of giving that as a blank factual, non wavering answer is a bad practice because it is very confusing to very new mod users that don't understand modding or even what it is all about yet. It really should be avoided because of this. IT is a bad practice done by some very good mod authors. If Groovtama writes to load the Esp as last in the loader sequence, then it is basically correct. If someone writes a mod, then he has to start from the current development stage. Neither God, Groovtame, Fore or other great modders can see into the future - and say - in 2-3 months there is an extension of the current development. Therefore the statement "as last in the order" is always correct - and not malicious. It is ALWAYS a statement about the CURRENT development status - keyword SOS. Anyone who has ever written a mod will not doubt this statement. If you only use mods, you should get used to it, that the statement can only apply in the context of certain circumstances. So it will also be read in the future often - "Load my Mod as last" None of this is wrong - or gives a guarantee. Modders are people, much more engaged than other gamers. They do not have to share their talent, their ability (I do not even talk about much work). Still, they do. So, some respect. Fore, Xp32, Groovtama, Caliente, Ousnius, Ashal, SKSE Team, Expired, and so on also players. also Leito, nibbles, etc. - unthinkable that Skyrim would still be on my hard drive. Hard / hard for newbies: No one forces you to use these mods. If you use mods, you need to know what you're doing. To all the above authors - thank you.
RitualClarity Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 That is just a cheap shortcut to avoid supporting the mod. If it is loaded last it wins the conflict war, pure and simple. It works there, so no added support or fixes needed from the author. Many authors will still provide excellent support however some use that as an excuse not to do any more work or give any support. That isn't the way to install mods or give instructions. It doesn't help people learn and grow or use your mods. Well in the case of XPMSE, that's certainly not justified. Groovtama has done a great service to the modding community and given huge amounts of supports as well. Maybe the description with high/low in the load order was a misunderstanding - high could mean a high number in the plugin count, but looking at the graphical display of the mod/plugin list in a mod manager, high means top where the lowest numbers are. I'm pretty sure that LOOT will also have your load order end in XPMSE->Live Another Life as per author instructions. Whatever. I just felt the need to mention this specifically, because the loading CTDs have plagued me for a long time (even though i only did screenshots and other modding without playing for a couple of years now). After following halofarm's advice to put XPMSE before the posing mods, these loading CTDs were gone instantly. My issue isn't that a mod needs to be low in an load order but it is constantly claimed to be the last one. Some need to be near the last (in some cases the last one) because they need to be there to overwrite the needed files to get desired results. FYI... my XPMSE is near the bottom but not the last as I need that space for patches and such. However, it is quite low in my load order as I need to do so to overwrite all the files added by other authors to get the desired results. However, it isn't the very last mod (even discounting my patches and such) and other mods are after that one because it isn't needed to be the very very last mod. It just needs to be below all the conflicting files to win and function properly. Also, jut to be clear this wasn't directed at Groovtama or anyone directly. It is the "practice" of telling people to do so as a shortcut. Those (many) that just force it to be done for support reasons etc, etc. and are very strong about it being the absolute last mod is part of the issue. Us experienced mod users (and creators) know why this is being done and can make reasonable adjustments as needed and the sky won't fall. The issue is newer members (perhaps the OP) have confusions when this is said as too many state this as a fact. Not all mods can be the very last mod in the load order (even without patches being used) That is the issue. It is a bad practice for many if not most mods. They don't need to be the very last, they need to be the very last mod in a list of like mods in order to win the conflict war to function properly. Pure and simple. The practice of giving that as a blank factual, non wavering answer is a bad practice because it is very confusing to very new mod users that don't understand modding or even what it is all about yet. It really should be avoided because of this. IT is a bad practice done by some very good mod authors. If Groovtama writes to load the Esp as last in the loader sequence, then it is basically correct. If someone writes a mod, then he has to start from the current development stage. Neither God, Groovtame, Fore or other great modders can see into the future - and say - in 2-3 months there is an extension of the current development. Therefore the statement "as last in the order" is always correct - and not malicious. It is ALWAYS a statement about the CURRENT development status - keyword SOS. Anyone who has ever written a mod will not doubt this statement. If you only use mods, you should get used to it, that the statement can only apply in the context of certain circumstances. So it will also be read in the future often - "Load my Mod as last" None of this is wrong - or gives a guarantee. Modders are people, much more engaged than other gamers. They do not have to share their talent, their ability (I do not even talk about much work). Still, they do. So, some respect. Fore, Xp32, Groovtama, Caliente, Ousnius, Ashal, SKSE Team, Expired, and so on also players. also Leito, nibbles, etc. - unthinkable that Skyrim would still be on my hard drive. Hard / hard for newbies: No one forces you to use these mods. If you use mods, you need to know what you're doing. To all the above authors - thank you. I always give respect unless directly attacked. The mod authors are awesome for their time and effort at creating content that people like. This as stated above isn't an attack on anyone only a comment on the practice of requiring the mod to be last in the load order being misleading and a cheap shortcut for support purpose and if not potentially problematic for the inexperienced user (which I have supported extensively over the several years I have been a member here, I wouldn't even make that comment. That comment alone could cause CTD and instabilities. If a person that isn't experienced reads your instructions mentioned stating it to be the last in the load order and also creates a merged patch they will screw up their game as the merged patch is required to be "the last in the load order" . This is the only thing that is required to be the last in the load order. Not someone's mod. it is a cheap shortcut for support measures. Placing a mod at the very bottom (after removing your merged patch ) is something that is done to see if the mod "works as advertised" as it would win all conflicts. if you working on a mod you put that mod on the very bottom so that you would be able to do your work and have confidence that there isn't something conflicting and your changes are the winner. The basics of the game engine requires you to load a plugin below any record that has been altered to "win" the conflict war. That is all. It has nothing to do with development or whatever you were talking about. Just because I choose not to release any mods, patches or etc doesn't mean I don't know how the GECK works and how the basic modding system works. I regularly go in and make changes to suit my taste to mods and sometimes even fixing screw up and omissions from the author(s). Also I regularly move up those "required last mods" up the load order as they don't need to be the very last... excuse me... next to the very last mod in my load order. Many do need to be very low in the load order due to their all encompassing compilation of changes to the game so that it can win the conflict war but the second to the last in the load order is random depending on the users personal selection of mods and also their desires of what is presented to the game and how it is presented to the game. The merged patch is critical in this matter as the nature of the conflicts and modding causes various records to be in conflict that the user don't want to be in conflict and does desire to have access to. This helps resolve this issue. The merged patch is the last in the load order as it has altered records of ALL OF YOUR MODS as needed. Since this is needed to overwrite or "WIN" the conflict war it needs to be the very last in the load order for the USER. Mod authors need a different setup and yes... in your case... you need to have the mod in the last order so that you could work through your bugs. When I test a mod for an author (Which I have done quite extensively in the past providing feedback and suggestions) I have always placed THAT mod last and removed any merged patch so that I can get a true representation of the mod and any issues it might have.
yatol Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 With Skyrim? I'm lucky if I make it 1 hour, especially if I am running around in a city going in and out of a lot of buildings or going cross country. that's because you have much more mods for skyrim that mean much more conflicts, and fail mods too don't know if you can ram ctd with vanilla skyrim but with mods, you can you waste ram for nothing without mods, so with mods... it go to another level you can't go highter in skyrim, unless you fly a plane it's most of the world you are able to see there's skyrim border nearby, where you will see... the mountains near the border and a few trees there's a lot of stuff behind that, like the imperial capital lod (oblivion leftovers?), some mountain behind it, the blue it's nothing, water ultra far lod there's a few holes in those mountains, there's something it's not blue, there's textures it's not purple, that's a sky? traveling so fast game don't have the time to replace lods, lod vs no lod fps difference 4 years ago, i would have ram ctd way before getting there, like you is there a difference in game? something is missing? hole in mountain behind riften was already there and that's still here too (you can't click on it, to know where to find it, to delete it)
Andy14 Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 That is just a cheap shortcut to avoid supporting the mod. If it is loaded last it wins the conflict war, pure and simple. It works there, so no added support or fixes needed from the author. Many authors will still provide excellent support however some use that as an excuse not to do any more work or give any support. That isn't the way to install mods or give instructions. It doesn't help people learn and grow or use your mods. Well in the case of XPMSE, that's certainly not justified. Groovtama has done a great service to the modding community and given huge amounts of supports as well. Maybe the description with high/low in the load order was a misunderstanding - high could mean a high number in the plugin count, but looking at the graphical display of the mod/plugin list in a mod manager, high means top where the lowest numbers are. I'm pretty sure that LOOT will also have your load order end in XPMSE->Live Another Life as per author instructions. Whatever. I just felt the need to mention this specifically, because the loading CTDs have plagued me for a long time (even though i only did screenshots and other modding without playing for a couple of years now). After following halofarm's advice to put XPMSE before the posing mods, these loading CTDs were gone instantly. My issue isn't that a mod needs to be low in an load order but it is constantly claimed to be the last one. Some need to be near the last (in some cases the last one) because they need to be there to overwrite the needed files to get desired results. FYI... my XPMSE is near the bottom but not the last as I need that space for patches and such. However, it is quite low in my load order as I need to do so to overwrite all the files added by other authors to get the desired results. However, it isn't the very last mod (even discounting my patches and such) and other mods are after that one because it isn't needed to be the very very last mod. It just needs to be below all the conflicting files to win and function properly. Also, jut to be clear this wasn't directed at Groovtama or anyone directly. It is the "practice" of telling people to do so as a shortcut. Those (many) that just force it to be done for support reasons etc, etc. and are very strong about it being the absolute last mod is part of the issue. Us experienced mod users (and creators) know why this is being done and can make reasonable adjustments as needed and the sky won't fall. The issue is newer members (perhaps the OP) have confusions when this is said as too many state this as a fact. Not all mods can be the very last mod in the load order (even without patches being used) That is the issue. It is a bad practice for many if not most mods. They don't need to be the very last, they need to be the very last mod in a list of like mods in order to win the conflict war to function properly. Pure and simple. The practice of giving that as a blank factual, non wavering answer is a bad practice because it is very confusing to very new mod users that don't understand modding or even what it is all about yet. It really should be avoided because of this. IT is a bad practice done by some very good mod authors. If Groovtama writes to load the Esp as last in the loader sequence, then it is basically correct. If someone writes a mod, then he has to start from the current development stage. Neither God, Groovtame, Fore or other great modders can see into the future - and say - in 2-3 months there is an extension of the current development. Therefore the statement "as last in the order" is always correct - and not malicious. It is ALWAYS a statement about the CURRENT development status - keyword SOS. Anyone who has ever written a mod will not doubt this statement. If you only use mods, you should get used to it, that the statement can only apply in the context of certain circumstances. So it will also be read in the future often - "Load my Mod as last" None of this is wrong - or gives a guarantee. Modders are people, much more engaged than other gamers. They do not have to share their talent, their ability (I do not even talk about much work). Still, they do. So, some respect. Fore, Xp32, Groovtama, Caliente, Ousnius, Ashal, SKSE Team, Expired, and so on also players. also Leito, nibbles, etc. - unthinkable that Skyrim would still be on my hard drive. Hard / hard for newbies: No one forces you to use these mods. If you use mods, you need to know what you're doing. To all the above authors - thank you. I always give respect unless directly attacked. The mod authors are awesome for their time and effort at creating content that people like. This as stated above isn't an attack on anyone only a comment on the practice of requiring the mod to be last in the load order being misleading and a cheap shortcut for support purpose and if not potentially problematic for the inexperienced user (which I have supported extensively over the several years I have been a member here, I wouldn't even make that comment. That comment alone could cause CTD and instabilities. If a person that isn't experienced reads your instructions mentioned stating it to be the last in the load order and also creates a merged patch they will screw up their game as the merged patch is required to be "the last in the load order" . This is the only thing that is required to be the last in the load order. Not someone's mod. it is a cheap shortcut for support measures. Placing a mod at the very bottom (after removing your merged patch ) is something that is done to see if the mod "works as advertised" as it would win all conflicts. if you working on a mod you put that mod on the very bottom so that you would be able to do your work and have confidence that there isn't something conflicting and your changes are the winner. The basics of the game engine requires you to load a plugin below any record that has been altered to "win" the conflict war. That is all. It has nothing to do with development or whatever you were talking about. Just because I choose not to release any mods, patches or etc doesn't mean I don't know how the GECK works and how the basic modding system works. I regularly go in and make changes to suit my taste to mods and sometimes even fixing screw up and omissions from the author(s). Also I regularly move up those "required last mods" up the load order as they don't need to be the very last... excuse me... next to the very last mod in my load order. Many do need to be very low in the load order due to their all encompassing compilation of changes to the game so that it can win the conflict war but the second to the last in the load order is random depending on the users personal selection of mods and also their desires of what is presented to the game and how it is presented to the game. The merged patch is critical in this matter as the nature of the conflicts and modding causes various records to be in conflict that the user don't want to be in conflict and does desire to have access to. This helps resolve this issue. The merged patch is the last in the load order as it has altered records of ALL OF YOUR MODS as needed. Since this is needed to overwrite or "WIN" the conflict war it needs to be the very last in the load order for the USER. Mod authors need a different setup and yes... in your case... you need to have the mod in the last order so that you could work through your bugs. When I test a mod for an author (Which I have done quite extensively in the past providing feedback and suggestions) I have always placed THAT mod last and removed any merged patch so that I can get a true representation of the mod and any issues it might have. Holy shit ... side effect of medication. Merged patch, my mods, my bugs, my instructions ... no word of it is from me. Where did you read that? My issue isn't that a mod needs to be low in an load order but it is constantly claimed to be the last one. That was your question, or - and that was an attempt to explain it. My text was to explain why it is called in many mod descriptions - "This mod to the end of the loading order". No more - no less. And that has nothing to do with my mods (I had somewhere my Mods mentioned?). But before you further interpret and assume: Many of my mods are Masterfiles and therefore top, most in midfield and only 4 of my mods are last in load order. GECK: For FO3 and New Vegas correct - in Skyrim, FO4 is only CK.
Ernest Lemmingway Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 Well there was...oh, no, not then. But there was a time...er, wait, there was a CTD then. Uh...no, I can't think of a time I haven't had the game CTD on me. Even just using the official Master files with no plugins of any kind, all the official patches, and a computer more than capable of running Skyrim. At times I've turned it into a kind of game, "How Long Until Another Crash?" My current record is about three hours.
RitualClarity Posted September 6, 2017 Posted September 6, 2017 If Groovtama writes to load the Esp as last in the loader sequence, then it is basically correct. If someone writes a mod, then he has to start from the current development stage. Neither God, Groovtame, Fore or other great modders can see into the future - and say - in 2-3 months there is an extension of the current development. Therefore the statement "as last in the order" is always correct - and not malicious. It is ALWAYS a statement about the CURRENT development status - keyword SOS. Anyone who has ever written a mod will not doubt this statement. If you only use mods, you should get used to it, that the statement can only apply in the context of certain circumstances. So it will also be read in the future often - "Load my Mod as last" None of this is wrong - or gives a guarantee. Modders are people, much more engaged than other gamers. They do not have to share their talent, their ability (I do not even talk about much work). Still, they do. So, some respect. Fore, Xp32, Groovtama, Caliente, Ousnius, Ashal, SKSE Team, Expired, and so on also players. also Leito, nibbles, etc. - unthinkable that Skyrim would still be on my hard drive. Hard / hard for newbies: No one forces you to use these mods. If you use mods, you need to know what you're doing. To all the above authors - thank you. I always give respect unless directly attacked. The mod authors are awesome for their time and effort at creating content that people like. This as stated above isn't an attack on anyone only a comment on the practice of requiring the mod to be last in the load order being misleading and a cheap shortcut for support purpose and if not potentially problematic for the inexperienced user (which I have supported extensively over the several years I have been a member here, I wouldn't even make that comment. That comment alone could cause CTD and instabilities. If a person that isn't experienced reads your instructions mentioned stating it to be the last in the load order and also creates a merged patch they will screw up their game as the merged patch is required to be "the last in the load order" . This is the only thing that is required to be the last in the load order. Not someone's mod. it is a cheap shortcut for support measures. Placing a mod at the very bottom (after removing your merged patch ) is something that is done to see if the mod "works as advertised" as it would win all conflicts. if you working on a mod you put that mod on the very bottom so that you would be able to do your work and have confidence that there isn't something conflicting and your changes are the winner. The basics of the game engine requires you to load a plugin below any record that has been altered to "win" the conflict war. That is all. It has nothing to do with development or whatever you were talking about. Just because I choose not to release any mods, patches or etc doesn't mean I don't know how the GECK works and how the basic modding system works. I regularly go in and make changes to suit my taste to mods and sometimes even fixing screw up and omissions from the author(s). Also I regularly move up those "required last mods" up the load order as they don't need to be the very last... excuse me... next to the very last mod in my load order. Many do need to be very low in the load order due to their all encompassing compilation of changes to the game so that it can win the conflict war but the second to the last in the load order is random depending on the users personal selection of mods and also their desires of what is presented to the game and how it is presented to the game. The merged patch is critical in this matter as the nature of the conflicts and modding causes various records to be in conflict that the user don't want to be in conflict and does desire to have access to. This helps resolve this issue. The merged patch is the last in the load order as it has altered records of ALL OF YOUR MODS as needed. Since this is needed to overwrite or "WIN" the conflict war it needs to be the very last in the load order for the USER. Mod authors need a different setup and yes... in your case... you need to have the mod in the last order so that you could work through your bugs. When I test a mod for an author (Which I have done quite extensively in the past providing feedback and suggestions) I have always placed THAT mod last and removed any merged patch so that I can get a true representation of the mod and any issues it might have. Holy shit ... side effect of medication. Merged patch, my mods, my bugs, my instructions ... no word of it is from me. Where did you read that? My issue isn't that a mod needs to be low in an load order but it is constantly claimed to be the last one. That was your question, or - and that was an attempt to explain it. My text was to explain why it is called in many mod descriptions - "This mod to the end of the loading order". No more - no less. And that has nothing to do with my mods (I had somewhere my Mods mentioned?). But before you further interpret and assume: Many of my mods are Masterfiles and therefore top, most in midfield and only 4 of my mods are last in load order. GECK: For FO3 and New Vegas correct - in Skyrim, FO4 is only CK. I mentioned "your instructions" not your mods. I added some details not stated above about merged patches for the benefit of those reading this thread and my post. The info directly related and commented on is in yellow. The rest is details helping explain the reason a mod should never be told to be always loaded last. This is for the benefit of the readers that don't understand the process. not a reply to you (directly) You instructed that it is correct to state mods go to the bottom and it is perfectly fine. I state it isn't and explain that they cant because of merged patches and not necessary. The mod only needs to win the conflict battle. feel free to comment further on this if you wish. I won't be able to see it anymore as you are going to be blocked. Have a nice day.
yatol Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 and here's the dlc worldspaces most of them are... nothing more than half the esm is nothing there's nothing in dawnguard too of course and it's probably the same with the nothing special edition
Blackhearted Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 and here's the dlc worldspaces most of them are... nothing more than half the esm is nothing there's nothing in dawnguard too of course and it's probably the same with the nothing special edition Is that anything to do with the CTD/Freeze I get heading out of Raven Rock going East? It happens more than 50% of the time. I've learned to save when getting close to the Bulwark and just restart my game because I know I'll be doing it anyway.
yatol Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 Is that anything to do with the CTD/Freeze I get heading out of Raven Rock going East? those nothing do... nothing game is just longer to load and eat more ram (for nothing) a ctd after a freeze? ram ctd most are because enb isn't configured right (windows ram usage don't drop to 0 when you play skyrim)
NickNozownik Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 I did a few times, I basically threw all the mods in the data folder and that's it. I call this technique "lucky motherfucker who pretends that he understands how modding works". I use tons of small mods instead of massive overhauls, and all the sex stuff works only on command. I have to talk to someone or do something specific if I want to get laid, I avoid "load the game and immediately get fucked by 50 million dudes" mods. So this is how I pick my mods: No conflict with other mods - good Shitty textures - gooderer Small scripts - ever more gooderer
Blackhearted Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 Is that anything to do with the CTD/Freeze I get heading out of Raven Rock going East? those nothing do... nothing game is just longer to load and eat more ram (for nothing) a ctd after a freeze? ram ctd most are because enb isn't configured right (windows ram usage don't drop to 0 when you play skyrim) Well, I either get one or the other, seems random, a ctd or a freeze (which I have to kill with task manager using just the keyboard since I can't see it while it's hidden under a frozen skyrim). What would happen if someone were to just delete all the empty records? Isn't that the same as cleaning a dirty mod?
yatol Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 What would happen if someone were to just delete all the empty records? Isn't that the same as cleaning a dirty mod? more fps but it's taboo to fix bethesda mess^^
Distortedrealms Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 I only get one crash these days (knock wood) on my 600+ mod setup and it is the df101a exception error, buuuut I figured out it had to do with enemies spawning from other mods to quickly meaning if i run away from a fight, then encounter more mod added enemies and run again, etc it will eventually crash when those mod added actors are still aggro. Easily avoidable now that i know. So as long as I either fight, or hide I am stable. How? I arrange my loadorder by hand using my own knowledge and avoid loot for sorting (Use it for error messages etc) I don't use wryebash anymore, or make tesedit patches because I use matorsmash which achieves what both those do in a single patch and better to boot. I optimize all textures, use bethini, crash-fixes, bug-fixes, enboost, mergeplugins, and legendary patch. I also really delved into windows services and shut off a ton of stuff (I researched each service), and optimized my gpu/games using Nvidea inspector. Also I put all basic followers in one merged patch, same with all armors/weapons in another. Some people say merged mods can destabilize their games but as long as you make sure there are no scripts in those mods it is usually safe and the program is good at telling you what to fix before you create it.
Andy14 Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 I mentioned "your instructions" not your mods. I added some details not stated above about merged patches for the benefit of those reading this thread and my post. The info directly related and commented on is in yellow. The rest is details helping explain the reason a mod should never be told to be always loaded last. This is for the benefit of the readers that don't understand the process. not a reply to you (directly) You instructed that it is correct to state mods go to the bottom and it is perfectly fine. I state it isn't and explain that they cant because of merged patches and not necessary. The mod only needs to win the conflict battle. feel free to comment further on this if you wish. I won't be able to see it anymore as you are going to be blocked. Have a nice day. No I did not. I have tried to explain why an author at the time of development makes a statement about placing his mod. From me is no statement for lastorder - or against lastorder. Nothing like that. Perhaps I could have written, the mod description is generally to accept, rather than respect. My mistake - sorry. But if someone writes (without reason and real advantage for anyone) that the statement on the placement of mods is actually nonsense, because all authors write the same - has made me use the word respect.
MrHuxley Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 One of the things I do is "segmented" loading. If I have a particular save file that crashes upon loading, I reload an early game save where I'm in the abandoned prison with no items, armor, weapons and many mods inactive (via MCM like Hunterborn) (I use the alternate start mod.) Once there, I load back into my main save from that point. Works every time.
Celedhring Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 A heavily modded 32 bit Skyrim not CTD'ing once in a while? Inconceivable! It's about as traditional as America and apple pie.
RitualClarity Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 One of the things I do is "segmented" loading. If I have a particular save file that crashes upon loading, I reload an early game save where I'm in the abandoned prison with no items, armor, weapons and many mods inactive (via MCM like Hunterborn) (I use the alternate start mod.) Once there, I load back into my main save from that point. Works every time. Yes! That is a very useful piece of advice. Nicely stated. A heavily modded 32 bit Skyrim not CTD'ing once in a while? Inconceivable! It's about as traditional as America and apple pie. It isn't about it having a CTD from time to time. I can't speak about other's views, but my major issue is if it does it often. If I can play for a few hours before a crash then I am satisfided. not happy, but satisfied. For the most part, honestly, I want to take a break every 2~3 hours anyway. So, in a way, Skyrim is doing what I really want to do Yes... I am kidding. lol.
yatol Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Works every time. doubt that you see x is installing, y initializing on your carriage, because that stuff wasn't load before the helgen quest, even if it have highter priority once the quest is running, if it have highter priority, it have highter priority horse turn, carriage that was supposed to turn later, wait for poser to run its quests...surprise because of that you use alternate start (it don't fix the problem, it avoid it) there's no save to load yet, your load order mess doesn't matter yet, and since helgen quest isn't running yet, your mess can't break it "If I have a particular save file that crashes upon loading" one quest running that have highter priority than the stuff it need to be load, that's a ctd you are asking for that ctd trying to load that directly from main menu "I reload an early game save where I'm in the abandoned prison many mods inactive (via MCM" only a few mods require activation via mcm you still have a lot of mods quests running you only need one with highter priority than the stuff it need to be load to ctd because of that that "miracle" solution only work for a few you coc qasmoke at main menu, once the loading is done, you have everything your save need from skyrim.esm in your ram, you can load it without problem now you can't take care of the problem if you don't try to understand what the problem is and nobody try to understand what the problem is it's like those ones that are breaking their save, by "cleaning" it everything that is no longer the same as in your load order get in your save that fish have move around, it's in the save no longer have 0c210514 in that esp there's poser idles in the save, because it's a property of poser quest probably the same for those ones, whatever it was it got in the save, it's still in the save (fixscriptinstance will delete them if you make another save without 0c esp in your load order, won't do that, the stuff that was loading those leftovers is no longer here, don't care about them) those scripts that's to allow to open door/coffers by hitting them i never do that, have no use for that stuff but if i delete those scripts bd_inndoorroom_script break if you delete its xarrianlock wq_160 it's a skyrim quest breaking those scripts break other scripts, that break other scripts, better keep that stuff even if i have no use for it that script suck, no idea wha the oncellattach is for if you can do that without it, or onlocationchange, or onitemadd, it's better to get rid of it there's no need to check if you are in cidhna when you mine in riftem too it wouldn't be long to rename mineorescriptcidhna, then saved to mineorescript without cidhna stuff copy pasting a few miningoreactivators as miningactivatorcidhna and give that to the ore in cidhna if i delete those mineore, there's some cw_ in the broken scripts civil war, you better don't break anything from it, even if its finished won't restart from helgen just for that, so it will wait for a new overhaul or something similar deleting the mess your load order put in your save, without taking care of that mess, it's useless (and dangerous if you don't check it can be deleted safely)
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