Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Schalli1980]

Did anyone know who made the german translation of this mod? I tried to open the esp in esp translator to correct wrong lines but i couldn't open it.

[Lupine00]

7 minutes ago, Schalli1980 said:

Did anyone know who made the german translation of this mod? I tried to open the esp in esp translator to correct wrong lines but i couldn't open it.

It will be @CGi I think?

 

The opening translated ESP problem is not his fault. Google "skyrim open translated esp creation kit" or something... It's just a regular Skyrim annoyance.

I think you need to remove a flag in Tes5Edit or something, that's all? I'm not sure, I don't do translations of that kind.

 

Also ESPTranslator should be able to work with it more easily than the CK anyway.

[Schalli1980]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

It will be @CGi I think?

 

The opening translated ESP problem is not his fault. Google "skyrim open translated esp creation kit" or something... It's just a regular Skyrim annoyance.

I think you need to remove a flag in Tes5Edit or something, that's all? I'm not sure, I don't do translations of that kind.

 

Also ESPTranslator should be able to work with it more easily than the CK anyway.

i never used the creation kit and i don't know how that programm work. i will look in Tes5Edit about that flag.

 

Ah i found the problem. it was my own fault because i used the Localized esp.

 

And now i have to correct myself again. the unlocalized esp isn't translated at all.

[Schalli1980]

I give up. if i unlocalize the esp in Tes5Edit i could work on the file but the whole translation is gone if i do so. i don't know how he translated the file but i couldn't change anything in it. doesn't matter, then it stays in english.

[CGi]

1 hour ago, Schalli1980 said:

i never used the creation kit and i don't know how that programm work. i will look in Tes5Edit about that flag.

 

Ah i found the problem. it was my own fault because i used the Localized esp.

 

And now i have to correct myself again. the unlocalized esp isn't translated at all.

 

1 hour ago, Schalli1980 said:

I give up. if i unlocalize the esp in Tes5Edit i could work on the file but the whole translation is gone if i do so. i don't know how he translated the file but i couldn't change anything in it. doesn't matter, then it stays in english.

Don't use ESP translator. Use xTranslator instead.

[atetete]

Hi, I have a little problem or maybe I don't understand something. I have a debt of 70000 septims right now and am still in enslavement (enslavement is when my character just refers to the follower as "Master" right?). I didn't turn on endless mode or modified the debt limits, so something should have happened to me by now, right? SS enslavement or I don't know.

[Garfieldcat]

1 hour ago, atetete said:

Hi, I have a little problem or maybe I don't understand something. I have a debt of 70000 septims right now and am still in enslavement (enslavement is when my character just refers to the follower as "Master" right?). I didn't turn on endless mode or modified the debt limits, so something should have happened to me by now, right? SS enslavement or I don't know.

From my experience it goes like this:
-you ignore the follower when she asks you for the gold (added debt);
-after certainn time you get approached by the follower and get notified that since you suck at managing gold, she will do it for you;

-once the debt grows even more you will be approached again and presented with a random deal;

The dialogue switch to "master" appears once you've been presented with few deals (I think more than 3 - but then again some are modular which work as few, so counting that is a bit funky to me). So technically you start refering to the follower as master without the enslaved trigger. Tbh, I wish the master text would appear only after you are enslaved, but not a big deal.

Once you have even more debt, you will be approached again and the follower will tell you to say goodbye to your freedom and then the actual enslaved part begins.
Supposedly the deals are to be paused at that stage, but to me it didn't work (I still get follower comments saying I should do this and that or else). You get a collar to wear in town and are supposed to wear mittens and slave boots everywhere and nothing other than that.

[atetete]

31 minutes ago, Garfieldcat said:

From my experience it goes like this:
-you ignore the follower when she asks you for the gold (added debt);
-after certainn time you get approached by the follower and get notified that since you suck at managing gold, she will do it for you;

-once the debt grows even more you will be approached again and presented with a random deal;

The dialogue switch to "master" appears once you've been presented with few deals (I think more than 3 - but then again some are modular which work as few, so counting that is a bit funky to me). So technically you start refering to the follower as master without the enslaved trigger. Tbh, I wish the master text would appear only after you are enslaved, but not a big deal.

Once you have even more debt, you will be approached again and the follower will tell you to say goodbye to your freedom and then the actual enslaved part begins.
Supposedly the deals are to be paused at that stage, but to me it didn't work (I still get follower comments saying I should do this and that or else). You get a collar to wear in town and are supposed to wear mittens and slave boots everywhere and nothing other than that.

Thanks for the response!

May I ask how long did it take You to get enslaved? Days, weeks, months? And do You maybe remember how big was Your debt when it happened?

[Garfieldcat]

Can't tell you what my debt was, but it wasn't super high. Right after I got Lydia as my follower and the addon started,
I adding debt via the MCM (I think it's in the Debug submenu). Just once.
I actually wanted for the playthrought to go as natural as I can from that point on, so I wasn't asking for the deals and let the follower approach me herself.
What I noticed to be the key to both getting debt and follower approaching me was resting/waiting for like 6h every couple of minutes to speed up the process.
Moved around, did regular stuff like quest and once done waited 6h, and so on.
I got enslaved after few hours spent in-game. Pretty sure you can speed it up by just waiting, but again, I wanted to make it more natural.
In the past I tried adding the deals over and over via the dialogue, but it felt kinda weird, and I don't think I actually got enslaved.
I believe it works kinda better when the NPC approaches you.

What I like about the enslaved part is that there are actual consequences for not doing what the master tells you too.
For example if you won't wear the mittens and boots, you will end up in the prisoner chains (my beloved set of restraints from the game!)

[atetete]

23 minutes ago, Garfieldcat said:

Can't tell you what my debt was, but it wasn't super high. Right after I got Lydia as my follower and the addon started,
I adding debt via the MCM (I think it's in the Debug submenu). Just once.
I actually wanted for the playthrought to go as natural as I can from that point on, so I wasn't asking for the deals and let the follower approach me herself.
What I noticed to be the key to both getting debt and follower approaching me was resting/waiting for like 6h every couple of minutes to speed up the process.
Moved around, did regular stuff like quest and once done waited 6h, and so on.
I got enslaved after few hours spent in-game. Pretty sure you can speed it up by just waiting, but again, I wanted to make it more natural.
In the past I tried adding the deals over and over via the dialogue, but it felt kinda weird, and I don't think I actually got enslaved.
I believe it works kinda better when the NPC approaches you.

What I like about the enslaved part is that there are actual consequences for not doing what the master tells you too.
For example if you won't wear the mittens and boots, you will end up in the prisoner chains (my beloved set of restraints from the game!)

Aaah. This sounds like something went wrong in my game. Maybe some triggers didn't trigger and some quests are not running like they should. Thanks a lot for the descriptions!

[Hex Bolt]

It's been a while now, but as I recall you must also have willpower of 2 or less to be enslaved (unless that changed with version 2.x).  If you manage to keep your will up you end up avoiding the enslavement mode.  You can test that by manually setting low will (set _Dwill to 1) and waiting until it's time to pay your follower again. 

[atetete]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

It's been a while now, but as I recall you must also have willpower of 2 or less to be enslaved (unless that changed with version 2.x).  If you manage to keep your will up you end up avoiding the enslavement mode.  You can test that by manually setting low will (set _Dwill to 1) and waiting until it's time to pay your follower again. 

Good idea, thanks!

[Lupine00]

The enslavement debt is set in the MCM. It's quite straight forward, that is the debt at which you can become enslaved, but you can achieve higher debts before it happens.

 

If you have enabled "endless mode" you will never be enslaved by your follower - endless mode has no enslavement.

 

Weird potion is triggered by a high deal count and allowed you to get rid of all your deals in return for ... never being able to sack the follower in future, basically.

If you play weird potion, you augment the normal deals problem with a constant money-sucking problem.

If you're broke due to paying a follower, you won't suffer that much from having taken the potion deal.

 

However, there may be a bug with gold control where the follower sees you as having money when they shouldn't, and demands large amounts to relieve your potion problem. Not sure about that TBH. Never tried it.

 

 

 

As for getting enslaved but still having increasing deals and accumulating debt... That's broken. Your DF is broken. Reset everything and see if you can fix it.

 

However... It is possible to get more debt as a slave, if you break the slave rules sometimes you are punished with more debt.

So if you don't wear things that you should wear, you'll get more and more debt and then you won't be getting out of slavery any time soon.

What you should not get, is daily fees for the follower's service.

 

Until you can clear your debt, you will stay a slave, and must wear the mittens, and collar, and sometimes get gagged and used as a whore, or chained up randomly, and other awkward things.

 

Unless... you enabled endless mode, in which case you just get more and more debt.

 

Gold control may or may not kick in, because you can disable it completely if you want.

[griffinpyros]

So, I was wondering what kind of future content/quests are being considered for Devious Followers. Also, is there a place here for submitting ideas? Had an interesting one revolving around the mgcDevious Swarven Armour. An option similar to selling the player, offering the player a quest, or demanding one, to collect Dwemer bits, then assembling the mgcDevious armour and forcing it on the player, enslaving them to the armour. I'm sure others have brought this up before, I tend not to spend lots of time on forums do to bad experiences in the past. This place seems to be of higher quality though.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, griffinpyros said:

Had an interesting one revolving around the mgcDevious Swarven Armour. An option similar to selling the player, offering the player a quest, or demanding one, to collect Dwemer bits, then assembling the mgcDevious armour and forcing it on the player, enslaving them to the armour. I'm sure others have brought this up before, I tend not to spend lots of time on forums do to bad experiences in the past. This place seems to be of higher quality though.

Has been suggested on various forums for various mods.

Monoman was interested in doing it, but had some technical problems; I'm not sure what.

Whiterun Brothel Reloaded (or whatever R word it was) had a dwarven armor quest, but it didn't involve parts, just the whole thing.

[Xuvish]

A suggestion for an expansion of this mod if you are interested, but not sure if there is one out there.

 

How about something called devious merchants where you can make deals with merchants and become enslaved by merchants until debt is paid off.  Other merchants won't sell you goods or buy from you if you are enslaved.

 

You can have similar rules with merchants like you do with followers.

 

I have some other ideas if you are interested.

 

If there already is a mod like that, please let me know.

 

Thanks,

[DarmanSejuk]

16 minutes ago, Xuvish said:

A suggestion for an expansion of this mod if you are interested, but not sure if there is one out there.

 

How about something called devious merchants where you can make deals with merchants and become enslaved by merchants until debt is paid off.  Other merchants won't sell you goods or buy from you if you are enslaved.

 

You can have similar rules with merchants like you do with followers.

 

I have some other ideas if you are interested.

 

If there already is a mod like that, please let me know.

 

Thanks,

That would be an interesting addition to this mod or one of its own. The merchant could use the enslaved player as a model to devious gear and add punishments if not done right.

[Balgin]

Interesting possible bug/conflict with the latest version (2.03a) and YPS (and other mods).

 

Whenever I enter a new area or load a save the game runs all the initialiser scripts for YPS, Sexlab and other mods that have a script that's supposed to only run once at character creation. So I literally have to sit through the entire sexlab installation sequence as if it was afresh install & reset a character's natural hair colour, turn off YPS npc comments etc.....

 

This essentially resets and undoes a whole load of MCM changes for multiple mods.

 

Disabling/Turning Off Devious Followers instantly fixes this irregular behaviour.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Xuvish said:

A suggestion for an expansion of this mod if you are interested, but not sure if there is one out there.

I proposed a mechanic a bit like this for SLS. I don't believe SLS will ever do it, so it's something I have in mind to do myself, in some mod, and some point.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Balgin said:

Disabling/Turning Off Devious Followers instantly fixes this irregular behaviour.

Probably unique to your game and LO though. There's no obvious reason why DF would do this. There is nothing very special about the code in it.

It doesn't have anything that would cause other mods to fire OnLoad events, or lose all their state.

 

Probably, with DF in, you are getting a massive crash that takes down almost everything in Papyrus, and then those mods think they haven't started because they've lost all their state information. So they re-init.

 

I use DF with a huge mod stack (but not YPS) and do not see the behaviour described.  By that reasoning, YPS seems just as implicated, but it's probably more complex than that.

 

If it was a choice, I'd take DF over YPS any day, but not everyone feels that way.

 

If you really want DF to work, you might try dropping everything (major) but DF, SexLab and DD, then putting things back until you reproduce the problem again.

Or as a quicker test, you could try dropping YPS instead of DF?

 

I think the system that newer DF uses to write json files relies on some SKSE plugins that are a little fragile, and when you mix that with other mods, it can go badly wrong. It's particularly bad if you have either an existing game, or mods that perform bad soft-dep linking. Mods that mis-use SLIF are top of my list for this problem. Perhaps YPS is one of them?

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Probably unique to your game and LO though. There's no obvious reason why DF would do this. There is nothing very special about the code in it.

It doesn't have anything that would cause other mods to fire OnLoad events, or lose all their state.

Interesting. It wasn't doing it before the day before yesterday and I haven't added any new mods. All I've done is update Devious followers and reenable it after not using it for a while. There's definitely some kind of conflict 'though as, with the new version of Devious Followers, if Simple Slavery is also enabled then the game never manages to load up the main menu. Instead I get the Skyrim logo and the puff of smoke that preceeds the menu never manages to appear. Disabling Simple Slavery again allows the main menu to appear perfectly.

 

Thanks for the help. I'll tinker a bit and see how things go. I should probably start by reverting Devious Followers to it's previous version to see if that works or not. That way I'd definitely have a much clearer idea regarding whether this update is to blame or not.

 

Quote

It's particularly bad if you have either an existing game

These results were with a new save I created to test if there were any additional problems beyond the main menu issue.

[Lupine00]

21 hours ago, Balgin said:

All I've done is update Devious followers and reenable it after not using it for a while.

 

Yup that's exactly what I meant by...

 

23 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's particularly bad if you have either an existing game, or...

Don't do that. Stick with your old DF until you start a new game.

 

 

Or did you mean you did those things then started a new game?

 

Possibly your mod-manager is screwing up the saving (or read after save) of the .json file output.

 

Lozeak made trouble by firing the code that builds the item list up automatically. So it runs on new games. It causes issues for some people. It's been fine for me though. I believe it does depend on your LO and so on. Put DF late. Really late. Don't use SLIF, or try adding it later once your game is working. You might try something similar with SS. Start up your game without it and add it later. Try dropping out things with follower or SLIF cross-dependencies, like other follower mods, pregnancy mods, MME, SL Hormones, SLUTS (sluts is baaaad) etc.

 

Are you using the latest Lozeak modified SS with the extra patch? If you're using the old one that might cause problems. Not sure, as I haven't used the old one for ages.

 

Possibly try looking for some problems in Tes5Edit. Make a merged patch, or try Mator Smash.

[Balgin]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Or did you mean you did those things then started a new game?

That is precisely what I meant. I haven't been using DF for the last few weeks so I started a new save with a new character and things did not work as well as they had done previously.

[Lupine00]

21 hours ago, Balgin said:

That is precisely what I meant. I haven't been using DF for the last few weeks so I started a new save with a new character and things did not work as well as they had done previously.

Some pages back there's a DL of a patch to the ESP I posted that fixes some issues with the item conditions. It might help with some other things besides outright crash that don't work as well as they did prior to modular deals (conflicting items).

 

Also, if you have Wet & Cold, try getting rid of that, it's toxic in many situations, not just for DF.

[Corsec]

Does anyone know if DF will be compatible with Nether's Follower Framework, found here- https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/92194

 

It seems like an interesting mod because it's explicitly designed to be as compatible as possible. It has the functionality from EFF without the conflicts with DF that need patches (among other EFF issues like unintentional follower nudity). I checked the plugins and there were no conflicts. However, this doesn't tell if there will be conflicts in the scripted stuff. So if there's no conflicts in the plugins, how likely are there to be other incompatibilities? Since DF works by inserting into regular follower dialogue, I'm assuming that it should be OK?

 

Here's what the author has to say about incompatibilities. I don't see any obvious conflict here with DF-

 

Not compatible with:
- Any multi-follower framework mods (AFT, EFF, UFO and similar).
- Any mods that directly affect the recruitment of Blades.
- Not compatible with mods that teach spells by trading books with Followers.
- Not compatible with Better Stealth AI for Followers (NFF does have some similar features)
- May conflict with any mod that enforces the following game settings: fFollowSpaceBetweenFollowers, iFriendHitCombatAllowed, fCombatTeammateFollowRadiusBase, fCombatTeammateFollowRadiusMin, fAIDistanceTeammateDrawWeapon, fFastWalkInterpolationBetweenWalkAndRun, fJogInterpolationBetweenWalkAndRun.

Potential Conflicts:
- Mods that enhance follower combat AI will likely override this mod. This affects the Healer Role and Combat Distances.
- Mods that affect how followers travel with the player will likely override this mod. This affects Follow Distance. moving out of the way, Sandboxing, Stealth movement.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, the Nether installer has an option to do install some scripts that replace the base dialogue scripts. The installer says this-

 

"Replaces all the Recruit, Dismiss, Wait and Follow scripts in the Vanilla game along with Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLC. This option does significantly increase installation time with NMM (Recommended that you use this option if you have issues dismissing/recruiting followers, Overrides 108 scripts)"

 

I don't know if this will be compatible. It doesn't conflict with scripts in the DF install.