Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Zaflis]

@zarantha Does 3BBB for SSE (1.5.97) work for you with FasterSMP body physics? So far i'm seeing at least belts and corsets are not respecting belly bone weights. At least some catsuits should be working.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Zaflis

[S.MayLeR]

4 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Wasn't this Slaverun issues? (It's simply incompatible with DD5)

If it was Slaverun, then I would write about it. If we return to the yoke, then this problem only occurred when it was locked, if it was not in the inventory. If it is available, then there is no problem. But it was just an example and nothing more.

4 hours ago, Zaflis said:

But indeed it doesn't look too great when mouth opens into a large vertical slit. Should maybe slightly expand horizontally too?

I can't help but agree. For a ball it's narrow, for a large ball it's narrow and sinks into the mouth. Maybe it's also in the preset, who knows?

[Kimy]

2 hours ago, naaitsab said:

So is there anything specific we are waiting for before we release 5.2? The smaller additions like my notifications, the blindfold detection and issues/bugs that might surface after releasing it to the wider public can be made into a 5.2.1 patch. If we keep waiting for all patches/additions it will never see the light of day

As DAR supposedly is updated to work with all versions of SE again we could put that on the agenda for 5.3 would be nice if it could fix animation pose lags.

 

I will wrap up 5.2 in the coming days. I have a handful of fixes to go in, but everything else will go into 5.3 at this point.

[no_way]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:56 PM, markdf said:

 

FNIS to DAR conversion? Is there a guide to that anywhere?

 

Also, with MCO I think you need to override the mco_attackX.hkx animations. Look at the directory structure for a mod like MCO Kickboxing.

Don’t think that would work as mco doesn’t have bound animations to overwrite.  You’d end up using bound animations for normal hand to hand no?

[merryMalfunctioning]

12 minutes ago, no_way said:

Don’t think that would work as mco doesn’t have bound animations to overwrite.  You’d end up using bound animations for normal hand to hand no?

 

No, the conditions file should ensure that it only takes effect when you're bound.

[Code Serpent]

4 hours ago, Kimy said:

I will wrap up 5.2 in the coming days. I have a handful of fixes to go in, but everything else will go into 5.3 at this point.

Awesome! I just finished up the new quests and mechanics for the next version of Devious Lore, so I can integrate the new devices in 5.2 to the new version too before releasing it.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Code Serpent

[zarantha]

9 hours ago, Zaflis said:

@zarantha Does 3BBB for SSE (1.5.97) work for you with FasterSMP body physics? So far i'm seeing at least belts and corsets are not respecting belly bone weights. At least some catsuits should be working.

 

Yes. If you have the DD options to manage the belly and breasts enabled, that can be the problem. I think elsidia mentioned a while back that the morphs for some of the sliders are reversed from LE. I've simply stopped enabling them and don't see the problem.

Edited January 31, 2023 by zarantha

[nimawi]

do in understand correctly that DD 5.2 is for Skyrim AE? i tried using 5.1.7 in AE and it doesnt want to work propperly, despite having all requirements

[naaitsab]

1 hour ago, nimawi said:

do in understand correctly that DD 5.2 is for Skyrim AE? i tried using 5.1.7 in AE and it doesnt want to work propperly, despite having all requirements

It depends, official releases posted here by Kimy are for LE only. Followed shortly by SE conversions made by members. As there is a DLL plugin in the mod it might require a specific DLL for SE or AE. I believe @zarantha mostly does the conversions so could be wrong about the DLL.

[fincherz]

So basically DD has been abandoned for everything but LE, functionally speaking?  The mismatches between versions/animations/libraries/3rd party requirements on the SE side is simply unrecoverable on this end, not to mention the complete lack of documentation on the subject.  (dont bother with lists of requirements, theyre always incomplete and never accurate)

[CaptainJ03]

21 hours ago, fincherz said:

So basically DD has been abandoned for everything but LE, functionally speaking?

DD is and always has been developed on LE. There are volunteers who translate it to SE

 

21 hours ago, fincherz said:

The mismatches between versions/animations/libraries/3rd party requirements on the SE side is simply unrecoverable on this end,

Go and thank Bethesda for that. With a new Game version every week, what do you expect from enthusiasts? Kimy doesn't owe us anything, they do it because they want to.

Edited February 1, 2023 by CaptainJ03

[naaitsab]

44 minutes ago, fincherz said:

So basically DD has been abandoned for everything but LE, functionally speaking?  The mismatches between versions/animations/libraries/3rd party requirements on the SE side is simply unrecoverable on this end, not to mention the complete lack of documentation on the subject.  (dont bother with lists of requirements, theyre always incomplete and never accurate)

It has never officially adopted SE. The main reason is you can convert mods from LE to SE/AE but not the other way around. As LE is still very popular, mostly due to Bethesda destroying all core mods about every year on SE it's stil on LE. SE conversions are uploaded as a separate download made by users.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, fincherz said:

The mismatches between versions/animations/libraries/3rd party requirements on the SE side is simply unrecoverable on this end, not to mention the complete lack of documentation on the subject.  (dont bother with lists of requirements, theyre always incomplete and never accurate)

When we talk about SE we mean version 1.5.97. That is just as static/unchanging as Skyrim LE. What Bethesda keeps updating constantly we call Skyrim AE - basically it's all Special Edition versions after Anniversary Edition first came out. Modders are still upkeeping versions for both SE and AE, but obviously AE is far more fragile. There is a simple downgrade "mod" in Nexus to convert AE back to SE, even with possibility of keeping Curios and other CC content. What you just need to do next is disable automatic SkyrimSE updates in Steam, which you should do anyway even if you play AE.

 

As for installing DD on SE or AE, people have made guides for that here. Although i don't have them in bookmarks they do exist.

 

Actually it's this post primarily:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/99700-devious-devices-se/page/110/#comment-3077930

Edited January 31, 2023 by Zaflis

[no_way]

19 hours ago, markdf said:

 

No, the conditions file should ensure that it only takes effect when you're bound.

Hmm I'm not sure why it doesn't work out of the box then, if DAR is the one handling it.  I have the conditions set for the various worn devices but it defaults to the basic hand to hand animations.

 

[zarantha]

7 hours ago, nimawi said:

do in understand correctly that DD 5.2 is for Skyrim AE? i tried using 5.1.7 in AE and it doesnt want to work propperly, despite having all requirements

 

There are compiled DLLs for the latest AE versions and for SE and VR. If you install DD SE/AE/VR 5.2, the DLL choices are all there.

 

If you want to continue using DD 5.1, the compiled DLL versions are also on the troubleshooting post, just pick the one that matches your game/SKSE version and replace or overwrite the DLL included in DD 5.1. The VR DLL is the exception, it's buried somewhere in the thread or more easily available on the VR compatibility thread and not on that post.

 

Not working properly though is more likely because you don't have the right pre-requisites for your version of AE rather than DD's DLL. Depends on what you mean by "doesn't want to work properly".

 

 

4 hours ago, fincherz said:

So basically DD has been abandoned for everything but LE, functionally speaking?  The mismatches between versions/animations/libraries/3rd party requirements on the SE side is simply unrecoverable on this end, not to mention the complete lack of documentation on the subject.  (dont bother with lists of requirements, theyre always incomplete and never accurate)

 

Hey, I worked hard on updating that list! ?

And it's definitely not abandoned for SE/AE. It's just never been DEVELOPED for SE. It is and always has been a conversion to SE and now AE.

 

I have also been updating the list in the fomod and it's current up to AE 1.6.640. Would you like to tell me exactly what is out of data here or isn't clear? All the requirements after the last Bethesda update have been updated themselves and the mod is completely usable on SE/AE. The only real issue is with the HDT chains, and I recently got some new pointers on those that I'm trying to implement, so they may be better in the future.

 

Spoiler

 

SE/AE Requirements:
• SexLab: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/20058-sexlab-se-sex-animation-framework-v164c-010722/
          • SexLab SE (game 1.5.97, SKSE 2.0.20): Use version 1.63
          • SexLab AE (game 1.6.353, SKSE 2.1.5), use version 1.64c
          • SexLab AE (game 1.6.640, SKSE 2.2.1/2.2.2/2.2.3), use version 1.65 or higher
• SexLab Aroused SE: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/5482-sexlab-aroused-redux-sse-version-29/
• FNIS SE: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3038
• Racemenu: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/19080
          • Racemenu SE (game 1.5.97, SKSE 2.0.20): Use version 4.16 from the old files
          • Racemenu AE (game 1.6.353, SKSE 2.1.5), use version 4.19.11
          • Racemenu AE (game 1.6.640, SKSE 2.2.1/2.2.2/2.2.3), version 4.19.13 or later (available on patreon only at the time of beta 8's release)
• BodySlide for CBBE/UNP compatible body: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/201
          ONE of the following bodies and their requirements (variants like 3BA or BHUNP can be used as well):
          • CBBE SE - https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/198
          • UNP - https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1699
• XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1988
• MFG Fix: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/11669
          • MFG Fix SE (game 1.5.97, SKSE 2.0.20): Use version 1.54
          • MFG Fix AE (game 1.6.353, SKSE 2.1.5), use version 1.60
          • MFG Fix AE (game 1.6.640, SKSE 2.2.1/2.2.2/2.2.3), use version 1.6.1 or higher
• HDT SMP, one of the below versions. CPBC is not a replacement, but can be used alongside HDT SMP. If using AE, Faster HDT SMP is your only option.
          • HDT SMP (SE only): https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/30872
          • Faster HDT SMP (AE or SE, choose during install): https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/57339
• Address Library (Required for some of the mods listed above): https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/32444
          • Address Library SE (game 1.5.97, SKSE 2.0.20): Use version 2 of the 'All in One' package
          • Address Library AE (game 1.6.353+, SKSE 2.1.5+), use version 8 of the 'All in One' package

 

 

 

 

[Zaflis]

2 hours ago, no_way said:

Hmm I'm not sure why it doesn't work out of the box then, if DAR is the one handling it.  I have the conditions set for the various worn devices but it defaults to the basic hand to hand animations.

I don't know much about DAR, but i don't think DD supports it out of the box. There is at least this one:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/193060-dd-51-to-dar-python-script/

And that works for you if you know how to run Python scripts.

 

While FNIS is always recommended for every mod in LL, it might also work with Nemesis. Just SL creature animations don't work on Nemesis.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Zaflis

[no_way]

43 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

I don't know much about DAR, but i don't think DD supports it out of the box. There is at least this one:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/193060-dd-51-to-dar-python-script/

And that works for you if you know how to run Python scripts.

 

While FNIS is always recommended for every mod in LL, it might also work with Nemesis. Just SL creature animations don't work on Nemesis.

Yeah I posted the working pex for that thread.  Before adding MCO it worked great, all the bound animations including combat were fine.  But now MCO and its associated DAR animations seem to override DAR DD animations.  Which makes no sense to me because I gave DD hugely higher priority numbers to override any other package.

 

On another note, which DD restraints should you be able to make kicking/bound attacks in?  Because there are some that seem like they should but I'm not able to, like shackled arms behind the back or elbow binders.  Yokes work fine though for example.

[Maddac]

10 hours ago, Zaflis said:

I don't know much about DAR, but i don't think DD supports it out of the box. There is at least this one:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/193060-dd-51-to-dar-python-script/

And that works for you if you know how to run Python scripts.

 

While FNIS is always recommended for every mod in LL, it might also work with Nemesis. Just SL creature animations don't work on Nemesis.

I dont know how to run python, would love it if someone can update dd5.2 to Dar and upload it for us that dont understand how to do it

[ihatemykite]

10 hours ago, no_way said:

Yeah I posted the working pex for that thread.  Before adding MCO it worked great, all the bound animations including combat were fine.  But now MCO and its associated DAR animations seem to override DAR DD animations.  Which makes no sense to me because I gave DD hugely higher priority numbers to override any other package.

 

On another note, which DD restraints should you be able to make kicking/bound attacks in?  Because there are some that seem like they should but I'm not able to, like shackled arms behind the back or elbow binders.  Yokes work fine though for example.

I managed to make the DAR working with DD without much of an issue. Only problems were the priority, as you said. I set the priority to 10000000, as there are some stupid DAR mods which just use 1000000 priority, cause why not?? Surely idle standing animation should have this high priority (EVG use priority 6002135 ?). If every new DAR mod use priority a million higher than previously the highest priority DAR mod, there will shortly be no more priority left. Also check that you have both female and male folder. For some reason, some female NPC use male animations, so if you don't have the male folder, they will have broken animations.

On 1/30/2023 at 4:49 PM, S.MayLeR said:

No, I'm using a new game. I don't use facial expression mods. Perhaps this is due to equipping devices with third-party mods that still use a stable version of DDF, so take Devious Devices Helpers for example. When equipping the iron yoke, the desired pose does not work - i.e. the hands are not placed in the yoke itself, it simply dangled around the neck. Perhaps it is a similar "story".

That is strange. Can you send screen of used phonemes/expression after the gag is removed ? (can be shows if you have mfg console or more informative console)

[naaitsab]

2 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

I managed to make the DAR working with DD without much of an issue. Only problems were the priority, as you said. I set the priority to 10000000, as there are some stupid DAR mods which just use 1000000 priority, cause why not?? Surely idle standing animation should have this high priority (EVG use priority 6002135 ?). If every new DAR mod use priority a million higher than previously the highest priority DAR mod, there will shortly be no more priority left. Also check that you have both female and male folder. For some reason, some female NPC use male animations, so if you don't have the male folder, they will have broken animations.

That is strange. Can you send screen of used phonemes/expression after the gag is removed ? (can be shows if you have mfg console or more informative console)

Are those priorities embedded in the ESP, config file or folder name? If it's file/folder based a script/exe could be made to change those priorities. Bit like LOOT does with ESP load priories.  Would be a nice little programming project to do.

[ihatemykite]

25 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

Are those priorities embedded in the ESP, config file or folder name? If it's file/folder based a script/exe could be made to change those priorities. Bit like LOOT does with ESP load priories.  Would be a nice little programming project to do.

Priorities are made in the form of folder names. The LOOT like thing might not be bad idea, but I dont know how will it know what new priority it should add to the mod. There would need to be some kind of database where creators will have to save their mod, and fill some information, so software can know how to change priority

[naaitsab]

1 hour ago, ihatemykite said:

Priorities are made in the form of folder names. The LOOT like thing might not be bad idea, but I dont know how will it know what new priority it should add to the mod. There would need to be some kind of database where creators will have to save their mod, and fill some information, so software can know how to change priority

I would not make it that complex. Just have a GUI with drag-and-drop filtering so the user can select mods they prefer. Checking which mods do walking for example and splitting them would be kinda impossible to do I guess

[S.MayLeR]

4 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

That is strange. Can you send screen of used phonemes/expression after the gag is removed ? (can be shows if you have mfg console or more informative console)

I think that all the same it was a couple of isolated cases, since this problem has not arisen for some time. Wait-and-see.

[no_way]

5 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

I managed to make the DAR working with DD without much of an issue. Only problems were the priority, as you said. I set the priority to 10000000, as there are some stupid DAR mods which just use 1000000 priority, cause why not?? Surely idle standing animation should have this high priority (EVG use priority 6002135 ?). If every new DAR mod use priority a million higher than previously the highest priority DAR mod, there will shortly be no more priority left. Also check that you have both female and male folder. For some reason, some female NPC use male animations, so if you don't have the male folder, they will have broken animations.

I think you're misunderstanding.  DD DAR works fine, until you install MCO.  MCO combat animations override DD DAR bound combat and dodge animations, even though my DD DAR conditions have priority 2 million or something and MCO has slots 10-20.  Don't really understand why. 

 

I also don't really understand why I can go into combat stance for say the YOKE, but for the ELBOWBINDERS, pressing ready weapon does nothing.  It's not even that there's no animation, I just can't ready weapon/fight, even though the anims are there.  So I'm wondering which heavy restraints are actually able to have bound combat/animations?

[kurotatsu]

I believe to have no option to fight not only heavy bondage have to be worn, but also legs has to be bound. If legs are free - unarmed leg fight anims should be used.