Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Zaflis]

58 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

But can I add it on top of other carriage overhauls?

I don't at least remember there being a patch for CFTO, but there is for BFT. It's same thing with SLUTS, it's not CFTO compatible (yet). And it's not surprising because CFTO replaces vanilla NPCs with new ones, an extremely bad idea.

[thedarkone1234]

16 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

I don't at least remember there being a patch for CFTO, but there is for BFT. It's same thing with SLUTS, it's not CFTO compatible (yet). And it's not surprising because CFTO replaces vanilla NPCs with new ones, an extremely bad idea.

 

Well, BFT could be another solution for another playthrough, but still, enabling carriages (and maybe chairs in general) while arms are bound is probably the better way to go, as it will be inherently compatible with everything. All you have to do is *not* disable a button that you currently do, and things will work whenever they are original or have been replaced by other mods

[Zaflis]

So i could be wrong but heavy restraints might not be specifically making carriages unuseable but the same it's the same function that disables enchanting tables, forges (and carriages), and so on. So if you had 1 enabled you would have them all.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Zaflis

[Code Serpent]

Just remembered I was asked by @serranna to upload my NPC blinding blindfold patch here. So here it is. The patch makes NPCs actually blinded by blindfolds, so they behave similar to Falmer or Ulfr the Blind in combat. Blinding Blindfolds.rar

[serranna]

On 1/23/2023 at 8:24 AM, thedarkone1234 said:

enabling carriages (and maybe chairs in general) while arms are bound is probably the better way to go

 

I think one of the main reasons why carriages and chairs are disabled is because there are no proper bound animations to play for sitting or hopping into the carriage.

I think this is also the reason why they are enabled for straitjackets because with the arms already hidden, it can still look natural to be seated in a chair. With an armbinder or yoke, the arms would not be where they belong and it would look silly/break immersion

 

7 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

The patch makes NPCs actually blinded by blindfolds,

 

Thank you! I'm looking forward to giving this a look!

 

[thedarkone1234]

9 hours ago, serranna said:

 

I think one of the main reasons why carriages and chairs are disabled is because there are no proper bound animations to play for sitting or hopping into the carriage.

I think this is also the reason why they are enabled for straitjackets because with the arms already hidden, it can still look natural to be seated in a chair. With an armbinder or yoke, the arms would not be where they belong and it would look silly/break immersion

 

 

To be honest, if animations are the one reason functionality is disabled... I prefer to have the functionality and get somewhat odd animations.

 

I mean, same way as we are allowed to loot stuff with bound arms, because it is important to be able to loot stuff, I think it is kinda important to be able to use carriages. Them having animations (unlike with looting) shouldn't be the sole dealbreaker

[Kimy]

I could look at using my code for hiding restraints also for sitting and using carriages to give players a "practicability over realism" option, but this won't go into 5.2

[Zaflis]

47 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I could look at using my code for hiding restraints also for sitting and using carriages to give players a "practicability over realism" option, but this won't go into 5.2

Like i mentioned in the earlier post, Devious Carriages does it so that as soon as you finish dialog player will teleport to destination if using those hard devices. It bypasses the entire animation issue.

[thedarkone1234]

2 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Like i mentioned in the earlier post, Devious Carriages does it so that as soon as you finish dialog player will teleport to destination if using those hard devices. It bypasses the entire animation issue.

 

At the cost of requiring compatibility patches for any mod that touches carriages or their drivers.

It can work as a temporary solution but not very much as "the" solution

[Antifapup]

Hey, so I've been away a little bit and I see skyrim has... updated. I have everything ready to go -except- my devious Devices SE and VR 5.1 appears to be throwing back a dll error and I see ya'll are on a new version now but I can't seem to find it. Could a good Samaritan throw me a link or something? I'm using Skyrim AE version 1.6.629

[no_way]

Anyone know how to get DD bound combat to be compatible with MCO? 

https://www.skyrim-guild.com/mods/attack

 

I've done the FNIS to DAR conversion for all the DD anims and it was working great, but I've added Nemesis to my load order in order to revamp the combat system.  Unfortunately MCO seems to highjack the bound animations and my PC is swinging fists (MCO animation I think) out of her yoke etc instead of kicking when bound.

[zarantha]

4 hours ago, Satyrfey said:

Hey, so I've been away a little bit and I see skyrim has... updated. I have everything ready to go -except- my devious Devices SE and VR 5.1 appears to be throwing back a dll error and I see ya'll are on a new version now but I can't seem to find it. Could a good Samaritan throw me a link or something? I'm using Skyrim AE version 1.6.629

 

You're in the LE thread, not the SE one. Get the VR DLL from the VR compatibility thread, or install DD 5.2 beta from the SE troubleshooting post, i included the VR DLL in that one, along with all the current SE and AE DLLs.

 

 

629 doesn't seem right though. I've got AE DLLs for Steam 1.6.353, 1.6.640 and GOG 1.6.659.

[merryMalfunctioning]

5 hours ago, no_way said:

Anyone know how to get DD bound combat to be compatible with MCO? 

https://www.skyrim-guild.com/mods/attack

 

I've done the FNIS to DAR conversion for all the DD anims and it was working great, but I've added Nemesis to my load order in order to revamp the combat system.  Unfortunately MCO seems to highjack the bound animations and my PC is swinging fists (MCO animation I think) out of her yoke etc instead of kicking when bound.

 

FNIS to DAR conversion? Is there a guide to that anywhere?

 

Also, with MCO I think you need to override the mco_attackX.hkx animations. Look at the directory structure for a mod like MCO Kickboxing.

Edited January 29, 2023 by markdf

[S.MayLeR]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:57 PM, ihatemykite said:

Here is the quick fix

DD Def Expression Quick Fix.espFetching info...

This is a really quick fix. But he also has a drawback. When quickly removing devices, and in this case - a gag (through debugging DD, DCUR or using a universal key from DCUR, etc.), the character have "displeased face".

[Zaflis]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:18 PM, ihatemykite said:

• Updated Dark fog blindfold effect. None of the blindfold effects work for me because of ENB, with exception of DarkFog effect, which works, but not very strongly. So I give it a look and did some changes to make it work more properly. Also raised maximum value, so it can now create a really Dark Foggy effect. Additionally, updated MCM, so now if the blindfold related variables are changed, it will send an event to magic effect which will use the values.

  Reveal hidden contents

Without blindfold

With blindfold

WIth blindfold without enb (using )

 

While i was looking for latest SSE beta version (i will find it eventually! ...maybe... or should i just go with 5.1?), i saw your post about blindfold effect. I'm using the Dark Fog console style normally and it already works quite nicely, but i think it can still be improved. Say someone makes a NIF file of a completely black slightly transparent sphere (doesn't need many polys), and then when blindfold is equipped it is shown around player. This is an almost error-proof method of making it look the same for everyone and ignores all performance unfriendly fog-shaders.

 

I made a sketch with Gimp about what i mean:

Spoiler

It would have to be significantly larger than player so that even if you fully zoom out, the camera is still inside the smallest circle. While that is how it would look from the outside, it's completely reverse from the inside. You only see a little bit ahead of you. As for how many spheres you want there, it would improve the looks the more there are by making the transition more seemless. More also means that each sphere would need to be more transparent to result in same overall effect. You could make the outermost sphere completely solid too, it is simply cheating seeing even blurred outlines of distant mountains.

 

All that could even be just a single trishape as far as NifScope is concerned, noone says polys have to be connected. Besides this doesn't need normal-mapping, textures or anything special, just same color for vertex. But if you want to change the color by using a texture that's fine. You can just map every vertex to UV (0, 0) and make 1x1 texture.

 

As for how it would move with player, i suppose it can be a hidden armor item worn on player in some slot. That would make sure it moves with it smoothly. Just needs to be absolute sure it will be unequipped on blindfold removal.

 

Edit: I'm just mentioning the texture option because one day i messed a lot with NifScape trying to come up with a way to change vertex alpha, without coming to any other solution than changing it in texture. Nobody has documented any success in doing it in vertex level.

 

Edit2: Oh, why the current Dark Fog implementation is not great is because you see full bright when close. It sometimes doesn't even look if it's day or night but just show things bright. And neither does it even blur the screen or anything.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Zaflis

[zarantha]

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

While i was looking for latest SSE beta version (i will find it eventually!

 

I keep them in the troubleshooting post too, for convenience, so i don't have to find it by going back x number of pages...

 

In this thread, it's back here:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/69936-devious-devices-framework-developmentbeta/?do=findComment&comment=3943633

 

 

[thedarkone1234]

2 hours ago, Zaflis said:

While i was looking for latest SSE beta version (i will find it eventually! ...maybe... or should i just go with 5.1?), i saw your post about blindfold effect. I'm using the Dark Fog console style normally and it already works quite nicely, but i think it can still be improved. Say someone makes a NIF file of a completely black slightly transparent sphere (doesn't need many polys), and then when blindfold is equipped it is shown around player. This is an almost error-proof method of making it look the same for everyone and ignores all performance unfriendly fog-shaders.

 

I made a sketch with Gimp about what i mean:

  Reveal hidden contents

It would have to be significantly larger than player so that even if you fully zoom out, the camera is still inside the smallest circle. While that is how it would look from the outside, it's completely reverse from the inside. You only see a little bit ahead of you. As for how many spheres you want there, it would improve the looks the more there are by making the transition more seemless. More also means that each sphere would need to be more transparent to result in same overall effect. You could make the outermost sphere completely solid too, it is simply cheating seeing even blurred outlines of distant mountains.

 

All that could even be just a single trishape as far as NifScope is concerned, noone says polys have to be connected. Besides this doesn't need normal-mapping, textures or anything special, just same color for vertex. But if you want to change the color by using a texture that's fine. You can just map every vertex to UV (0, 0) and make 1x1 texture.

 

As for how it would move with player, i suppose it can be a hidden armor item worn on player in some slot. That would make sure it moves with it smoothly. Just needs to be absolute sure it will be unequipped on blindfold removal.

 

Edit: I'm just mentioning the texture option because one day i messed a lot with NifScape trying to come up with a way to change vertex alpha, without coming to any other solution than changing it in texture. Nobody has documented any success in doing it in vertex level.

 

Edit2: Oh, why the current Dark Fog implementation is not great is because you see full bright when close. It sometimes doesn't even look if it's day or night but just show things bright. And neither does it even blur the screen or anything.

 

The concept sounds very cool, but if the innermost sphere is still bigger than the max zoom-out distance, wouldn't that mean the blindfold would be completely ineffective against anything within that radius?

 

Wouldn't technically mean that if I zoom in into almost-first-person I will see very clearly around the character in the area within the innermost sphere?

 

Or am I missing something simple in that idea? XD

[Zaflis]

5 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

The concept sounds very cool, but if the innermost sphere is still bigger than the max zoom-out distance, wouldn't that mean the blindfold would be completely ineffective against anything within that radius?

I suppose i am underestimating how far back you can zoom? It shouldn't be much though? I suppose i mostly meant outermost sphere should be inside camera but then it really has to be completely solid black.

There's another option to make it center around camera but i don't even know if that is possible. It would also cause character to disappear into black if you zoom out much, but that would also be a desirable effect in a way. On the otherhand you could use zoom to reveal places you don't otherwise see. But is this any different to how the normal blindfold effect works? It's just not as strong, however blurry.

 

Also the way one would control the blindfold strength would be scaling the circles bigger or smaller.

[Frayed]

4 hours ago, Zaflis said:

While i was looking for latest SSE beta version (i will find it eventually! ...maybe... or should i just go with 5.1?), i saw your post about blindfold effect. I'm using the Dark Fog console style normally and it already works quite nicely, but i think it can still be improved. Say someone makes a NIF file of a completely black slightly transparent sphere (doesn't need many polys), and then when blindfold is equipped it is shown around player. This is an almost error-proof method of making it look the same for everyone and ignores all performance unfriendly fog-shaders.

 

I made a sketch with Gimp about what i mean:

  Reveal hidden contents

It would have to be significantly larger than player so that even if you fully zoom out, the camera is still inside the smallest circle. While that is how it would look from the outside, it's completely reverse from the inside. You only see a little bit ahead of you. As for how many spheres you want there, it would improve the looks the more there are by making the transition more seemless. More also means that each sphere would need to be more transparent to result in same overall effect. You could make the outermost sphere completely solid too, it is simply cheating seeing even blurred outlines of distant mountains.

 

All that could even be just a single trishape as far as NifScope is concerned, noone says polys have to be connected. Besides this doesn't need normal-mapping, textures or anything special, just same color for vertex. But if you want to change the color by using a texture that's fine. You can just map every vertex to UV (0, 0) and make 1x1 texture.

 

As for how it would move with player, i suppose it can be a hidden armor item worn on player in some slot. That would make sure it moves with it smoothly. Just needs to be absolute sure it will be unequipped on blindfold removal.

 

Edit: I'm just mentioning the texture option because one day i messed a lot with NifScape trying to come up with a way to change vertex alpha, without coming to any other solution than changing it in texture. Nobody has documented any success in doing it in vertex level.

 

Edit2: Oh, why the current Dark Fog implementation is not great is because you see full bright when close. It sometimes doesn't even look if it's day or night but just show things bright. And neither does it even blur the screen or anything.

 

Interesting idea. I was trying out the dark fog effect yesterday with a new weather/ENB setup and I was somewhat considering messing with it a bit. I noticed the dark fog seemed to mess up the fog set by the weather/interior. Equipping the blindfold outside would make it properly dark and it looked great, but crossing a load screen would reset the fog color to whatever the cell/weather specified, while keeping the fog distance as set by the blindfold, leading to pretty ugly results. Ultimately, while fog would be great to work with, I suspect it would conflict with weather mods and ENB setups quite a bit. Your idea of transparent spheres is an interesting one.

 

Getting it to move with the player is pretty doable even without hidden armor items. I did this for my collar mod. You can attach a mesh to a bone with some Nifskope magic: 

 

Spoiler

 

Then in the CK define the spheres as an Art Object and make that the Hit Effect Art for a Magic Effect. That way, whenever the magic effect is applied it will add the mesh. When the magic effect is removed, so is the mesh.

 

Changing the alpha of a mesh is possible in animations using Controllers. Again from the collar mod, here's what a fadeout looks like in Nifskope:

 

Spoiler

 

It's like animation keys, where you change the XYZ of a bone over time, except now you change the alpha of a shader. I don't know of any way to change the alpha of vertices, though. But you can make multiple trishapes within one nif/node and control each separately.

 

I suspect the main issue would be that you're relying on stacking transparency from multiple meshes. I don't know if this will work properly in Skyrim.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Frayed

[Zaflis]

17 minutes ago, Frayed said:

I suspect the main issue would be that you're relying on stacking transparency from multiple meshes. I don't know if this will work properly in Skyrim.

It should, if you add a NiAlphaProperty and right click its Flags, you get a dialog of how the model deals with combining it with the world. Specifically how it blends and if it needs to take depth-mask into account. Just recently there was discussion how even underwater clothes are actually showing through transparent layer of water, all the while player is only partially submerged. But there is many varieties one can try with those flags, OpenGL guides may even help with them.

 

Specifically it is using Blend_Func with exact same parameters:

http://www.naturewizard.at/tutorial0111.html

[ihatemykite]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:07 AM, S.MayLeR said:

This is a really quick fix. But he also has a drawback. When quickly removing devices, and in this case - a gag (through debugging DD, DCUR or using a universal key from DCUR, etc.), the character have "displeased face".

Looking at the scripts again, when the Gag is removed, it should not reset expression, only phonemes (which makes sense because only phonemes should be changed by gag). BUT, If I remember correctly, the Large Gag was actually changing the expression. Specifically, it was editing modifiers 4,5,6 and 7. My guess is that this is what is causing the "Displeased face". Did you make new game or did you use existing save and upgraded to beta 7+ ? As the only possibility I can think of is that you had Large gag equipped, and then upgraded DD to a new version. And in the new versions, modifiers and expression is not reset when gag is unlocked, so the previous expression is not changed. It is also possible that other mod is causing the displeased expression.

[S.MayLeR]

4 hours ago, ihatemykite said:

Looking at the scripts again, when the Gag is removed, it should not reset expression, only phonemes (which makes sense because only phonemes should be changed by gag). BUT, If I remember correctly, the Large Gag was actually changing the expression. Specifically, it was editing modifiers 4,5,6 and 7. My guess is that this is what is causing the "Displeased face". Did you make new game or did you use existing save and upgraded to beta 7+ ? As the only possibility I can think of is that you had Large gag equipped, and then upgraded DD to a new version. And in the new versions, modifiers and expression is not reset when gag is unlocked, so the previous expression is not changed. It is also possible that other mod is causing the displeased expression.

No, I'm using a new game. I don't use facial expression mods. Perhaps this is due to equipping devices with third-party mods that still use a stable version of DDF, so take Devious Devices Helpers for example. When equipping the iron yoke, the desired pose does not work - i.e. the hands are not placed in the yoke itself, it simply dangled around the neck. Perhaps it is a similar "story".

[Zaflis]

2 hours ago, S.MayLeR said:

When equipping the iron yoke, the desired pose does not work - i.e. the hands are not placed in the yoke itself, it simply dangled around the neck. Perhaps it is a similar "story".

Wasn't this Slaverun issues? (It's simply incompatible with DD5) Assuming you don't need guidance with FNIS or Nemesis ?

 

But indeed it doesn't look too great when mouth opens into a large vertical slit. Should maybe slightly expand horizontally too?

Edited January 30, 2023 by Zaflis

[no_way]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:56 PM, markdf said:

 

FNIS to DAR conversion? Is there a guide to that anywhere?

 

Also, with MCO I think you need to override the mco_attackX.hkx animations. Look at the directory structure for a mod like MCO Kickboxing.

Yes there is, search DD 5.1 to dar, use the last guys instructions and my pex file.  
 

I’ll try the kickboxing thnx 

[naaitsab]

So is there anything specific we are waiting for before we release 5.2? The smaller additions like my notifications, the blindfold detection and issues/bugs that might surface after releasing it to the wider public can be made into a 5.2.1 patch. If we keep waiting for all patches/additions it will never see the light of day

As DAR supposedly is updated to work with all versions of SE again we could put that on the agenda for 5.3 would be nice if it could fix animation pose lags.