Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[DonQuiWho]

3 hours ago, Raine_Hyd said:

If you use a follower mod, such as Extensive Follower Framework, there's an option for equipment or inventory, the latter they hold stuff for you the former the equip the stuff. 

 

Thanks for replying

 

iAFT makes the same distinction, but it seems to be non optional - although I will look at the settings again ?

 

But just to be clear that there really IS a procedural difference, are you saying that DD really does not require/use a 'Restraint Key' in retrieving a DD that has been placed in an EFF Follower's holding 'Inventory'?  And what does it do for 'equipped Equipment'? 

[Vbarding]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:57 AM, ihatemykite said:

Can you share the papyrus log ? I have feeling this have something to do with AE and Sexlab binaries.

Alternatively, you can check if actor is in expression faction, and try to remove them. The name of the faction is zadExpressionBlockerFaction. Removing the player from the faction might help to unblock it. You can also check if you actually have the gag expression magic effect present. Without it, the gag expression is not updated. The name of effect is zad_effGag. If its not present, you can try to unlock the gag, and reequip it.

Papyrus.0.log

 

Here is the log - I searched for the faction in console but didn't see it and also didn't ssee a  magic effect in the active list.

[Good Provider]

Does DD use keywords to filter animations, and if so where can I find a list of the mapping between device and keyword? 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Good Provider

[Vbarding]

18 hours ago, Vbarding said:

Papyrus.0.log 303.45 kB · 0 downloads

 

Here is the log - I searched for the faction in console but didn't see it and also didn't ssee a  magic effect in the active list.

I went through and disabled mods until I found the culprit - it looks like it was a conflict caused by a merge patch used for Sexlab Survival.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Vbarding

[Raine_Hyd]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:22 PM, DonQuiWho said:

 

Thanks for replying

 

iAFT makes the same distinction, but it seems to be non optional - although I will look at the settings again ?

 

But just to be clear that there really IS a procedural difference, are you saying that DD really does not require/use a 'Restraint Key' in retrieving a DD that has been placed in an EFF Follower's holding 'Inventory'?  And what does it do for 'equipped Equipment'? 

I dont use AFT anymore but I think there was an option. I don't remember. 
For EFF and the inventory, it acts as storage, so assume you put the item in a chest, dresser, etc. but giving it to the inventory of your follower. so no keys are needed. 
However their equip inventory is where they equip stuff and follows the DD rules of its locked on and you would need keys. Everything equipped in their equip menu shows on them, anything in the inventory does not show because it functions only as storage. Every follower attached to EFF follows these rules. 

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, Raine_Hyd said:

I dont use AFT anymore but I think there was an option. I don't remember. 
For EFF and the inventory, it acts as storage, so assume you put the item in a chest, dresser, etc. but giving it to the inventory of your follower. so no keys are needed. 
However their equip inventory is where they equip stuff and follows the DD rules of its locked on and you would need keys. Everything equipped in their equip menu shows on them, anything in the inventory does not show because it functions only as storage. Every follower attached to EFF follows these rules. 

 

Thanks.  If EFF NPCs' 'inventory' acts as if a 'chest', that would do what I want, as that would differ from the iAFT NPC 'inventory', which behaves as an extension of the main carrying capacity, so whilst the items in it do not visibly equip to the NPC, they act as if they had and you need to use up a key to recover them

 

If I can't .....

 

- find some sort of 'NPC chest carrying' mod - apparently Devious Lore, or part of Campfire can be used like that - but I still need to check those out, or

- get any simple fix done within the DD mods themselves - on-one has volunteered any ideas on that

 

....I may need to rethink which mod I use for follower handling ?

 

Thanks again for the help

 

DQW 

[Kimy]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:19 AM, DonQuiWho said:

 

Thanks

 

With your IQ of 6000, I'll settle for you knowing what you're talking about ?

 

@Kimy

 

Are these issues fixable?  I mean 'simply', of course ?

 

Not "simply", unfortunately, as I would need to teach the equip script how to tell apart "hold on to these cuffs for me, will you?" from "I am going to cuff you!" when transferring devices. Easiest way would be a dialog option that sets a flag of some kind, but then people would probably forget to reset it when they're done loading devices on the companion and send me bug reports when they can't seem to tie up their companions anymore!

[Kimy]

20 hours ago, Good Provider said:

Does DD use keywords to filter animations, and if so where can I find a list of the mapping between device and keyword? 

 

The filter code is in zadBQ00.psc

[merryMalfunctioning]

52 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

Thanks.  If EFF NPCs' 'inventory' acts as if a 'chest', that would do what I want, as that would differ from the iAFT NPC 'inventory', which behaves as an extension of the main carrying capacity, so whilst the items in it do not visibly equip to the NPC, they act as if they had and you need to use up a key to recover them

 

If I can't .....

 

- find some sort of 'NPC chest carrying' mod - apparently Devious Lore, or part of Campfire can be used like that - but I still need to check those out, or

- get any simple fix done within the DD mods themselves - on-one has volunteered any ideas on that

 

....I may need to rethink which mod I use for follower handling ?

 

Thanks again for the help

 

DQW 

 

You could use something like this:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/75449

Adds a backpack you can give your followers; while worn, you get a new dialog option to put things in their backpack, which goes to a separate storage container.

[naaitsab]

As discussed before I made some changes to the events. I anyone wants to contribute some text let me know. Some more lines would be nice. They can't be to long otherwise the notification in the top left of the screen get's cut off or gets unreadable small

 

-Fixed Restrictive Collar event. 
Any item with "Restrictive" in the name and has the tag "Collar" will cause it to fire. Not only the default black one.

-Added a lot more device types to the struggle event. Also reworked the array so items with multiple animations don't overcrowd the array and mess with the randomnes. Like the 5 animations for the Armbinder.

-Added catsuit event.
Will trigger when something with the keyword 'suit' is worn and has 'Cat' in the name (cat suit and catsuit both work)
Also added a little filter to check if it rains or is sunny to give other notifications

 

DD Event Change.zip

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

 

Not "simply", unfortunately, as I would need to teach the equip script how to tell apart "hold on to these cuffs for me, will you?" from "I am going to cuff you!" when transferring devices. Easiest way would be a dialog option that sets a flag of some kind, but then people would probably forget to reset it when they're done loading devices on the companion and send me bug reports when they can't seem to tie up their companions anymore!

 

Thanks for replying

 

Given that something quite so obviously positive hadn't been done before, I really hadn't thought it would be simple

 

?

 

DQW

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by DonQuiWho

[DonQuiWho]

54 minutes ago, markdf said:

 

You could use something like this:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/75449

Adds a backpack you can give your followers; while worn, you get a new dialog option to put things in their backpack, which goes to a separate storage container.

 

Thanks

 

That sounds like ity might just do the trick!

 

I'll give it a go and see

 

DQW 

[serranna]

**Editing this post to remove remarks I regret making**

 

Of course the beauty of the internet means what I said is still out there through others quoting me anyway.

 

The post discusses the gag expressions patch and the differences between it and how it used to look.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by serranna

[Raine_Hyd]

20 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

Thanks.  If EFF NPCs' 'inventory' acts as if a 'chest', that would do what I want, as that would differ from the iAFT NPC 'inventory', which behaves as an extension of the main carrying capacity, so whilst the items in it do not visibly equip to the NPC, they act as if they had and you need to use up a key to recover them

 

If I can't .....

 

- find some sort of 'NPC chest carrying' mod - apparently Devious Lore, or part of Campfire can be used like that - but I still need to check those out, or

- get any simple fix done within the DD mods themselves - on-one has volunteered any ideas on that

 

....I may need to rethink which mod I use for follower handling ?

 

Thanks again for the help

 

DQW 

Looks like you found a solution, at the end of the day use the follower mod you like. They all have their pros and cons. But I use stuff that interacts with EFF so I use that. 

[Mexicola88]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:47 AM, serranna said:

So I went ahead and installed the newest Beta and I'm quite disappointed. @ihatemykite flat out lied to me saying that stupid gag expression patch being incorporated into the framework would have no noticeable effect unless you wanted to change it. Well thats not true and why am I not surprised that gags not look really stupid because the mouth opens way too much.

 

Tell me this looks natural.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As pretty much the only dissenting voice against this I don't expect any changes, but I also dont appreciate being flat out lied to saying it would not change the default look. I play a lot of different characters and I don't want to have to go and change *all* the Phonemes for *all* my characters.

 

There was nothing wrong with the way it was. Why fix a problem that did not exist?

 

 

As far as I can tell, that gag perfectly fits behind the teeth, exactly where it belongs. So I don't see the problem.

 

Or is this the screenshot AFTER adjusting the mouth values?

 

Edit: But the line "Tell me this looks natural." tells me it is the BEFORE screenshot. That means the gag fits absolutely perfect!

Edit2: Check this picture, it's a ring gag, and look at the teeth, it's the SAME ingame. Behind the teeth!

Spoiler

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Mexicola88

[serranna]

2 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

Edit: But the line "Tell me this looks natural." tells me it is the BEFORE screenshot. That means the gag fits absolutely perfect!

Edit2: Check this picture, it's a ring gag, and look at the teeth, it's the SAME ingame. Behind the teeth!

 

I get what you're saying, but I see it differently. It looks a bit off to me.

 

I will admit that different mouth types look different as I tried it on some other characters and it looks better on some than on others. Either way I still prefer the old look.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy with it to the point where I would roll back and use an older version, I was more upset that I was given bad information directly from the author of the patch than anything else. I would have been more vocal with my opinion if I knew how it was going to end up.

[kapibar]

3 hours ago, serranna said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy with it to the point where I would roll back and use an older version, I was more upset that I was given bad information directly from the author of the patch than anything else. I would have been more vocal with my opinion if I knew how it was going to end up.

In my opinion what you said is uncool and uncalled for. You called a contributor a liar, despite the fact they did what they could to the best of their knowledge. And you call them names because you're unhappy with effects? What you said was uncool, toxic and counterproductive.

[Taki17]

On 1/11/2023 at 8:42 PM, naaitsab said:

They can't be to long otherwise the notification in the top left of the screen get's cut off or gets unreadable small

Speaking of that, I'd advise against having text displayed as two notifications, because it looks clunky as all hell.

 

In zadEventRestrictiveCollar.psc:

Function Execute(actor akActor)
	libs.Moan(akActor)
	if Utility.RandomInt(1,2) == 1
		libs.NotifyPlayer("Your neck feels sore from the strict posture imposed upon you.")
	Else
		libs.NotifyPlayer("You are reminded of the sturdy bar under your chin")
		libs.NotifyPlayer("as you try to look down to see where you are going.")
	EndIf
EndFunction

I think the second line could be done away with easily, if length would be a concern otherwise.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Taki17

[naaitsab]

19 minutes ago, Taki17 said:

Speaking of that, I'd advise against having text displayed as two notifications, because it looks clunky as all hell.

 

In zadEventRestrictiveCollar.psc:

Function Execute(actor akActor)
	libs.Moan(akActor)
	if Utility.RandomInt(1,2) == 1
		libs.NotifyPlayer("Your neck feels sore from the strict posture imposed upon you.")
	Else
		libs.NotifyPlayer("You are reminded of the sturdy bar under your chin")
		libs.NotifyPlayer("as you try to look down to see where you are going.")
	EndIf
EndFunction

I think the second line could be done away with easily, if length would be a concern otherwise.

That was already there but I agree it is a bit over the top to have 2 lines. How about "You are reminded of the sturdy bar under your chin enforcing your posture" ?

[serranna]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:37 PM, ihatemykite said:

On 7/15/2022 at 12:35 PM, serranna said:

 

I dunno, if you look close enough at the gag in relation to how wide the mouth is open, it looks like the back teeth would not even be touching it.

 

I'm honestly thinking this expression patch should remain just that. As an optional patch.

 

As I said previously, the patch actually doesn't change gag phonemes until you change them manually. If you install the patch and don't do anything, it will look like it was looking previously. The only difference will be that expressions will be working, but they don't change gag phonemes.

 

@kapibar

 

OK so this is the post I was referencing. A few posts below this is was pointed out it was a mistake, so nothing intentional was done.

 

I did not insult anyone, however I did call the patch stupid which I regret doing.

 

I also admit I should have handled it differently and not in a public forum.

Edited January 13, 2023 by serranna

[Yanme]

11 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

As far as I can tell, that gag perfectly fits behind the teeth, exactly where it belongs. So I don't see the problem.

 

Or is this the screenshot AFTER adjusting the mouth values?

 

Edit: But the line "Tell me this looks natural." tells me it is the BEFORE screenshot. That means the gag fits absolutely perfect!

Edit2: Check this picture, it's a ring gag, and look at the teeth, it's the SAME ingame. Behind the teeth!

  Hide contents

 

 

Preface: I do not agree at all with the way the original complaint was voiced and I can't comment on the actual DD functionality, as I haven't tested it yet. I would actually much appreciate being able to modify gag phonemes (it would make fittings gags to characters so much easier). For this post, I am just going off the two images posted here (the gagged screenshot and your image).

That said: Your picture perfectly illustrates why the expression from the poster's screenshot looks so very unnatural. Sure, the gag is behind the teeth, which is nice - however, the shape of the mouth is distorted. With a gag like that, you would expect the corners of the mouth to be more outward (doing kind of an 'Ah' shape), as perfectly shown in your picture (especially if the gag's strap also pulls the corners slightly back). In stark contrast, in the OP's screenshot. the corners of the mouth are very inward, forming a fish/kiss mouth expression. They are in fact pulled inward so far that the lips *clip through the ring*. In short: The ratio of how wide the mouth is open left-right is to small to the ration of how wide the mouth is open top-bottom. I do not know if this is a problem with the gag's phenomes or OP's settings/character face shape though.

 

Another thing that makes the gag in the picture you posted look better is that the top front teeth show. I believe though that this is partially due to the gag's size, and DD's ring gags appear not that large, so top teeth showing more might not be fitting for DD.

[ihatemykite]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:47 AM, serranna said:

So I went ahead and installed the newest Beta and I'm quite disappointed. @ihatemykite flat out lied to me saying that stupid gag expression patch being incorporated into the framework would have no noticeable effect unless you wanted to change it. Well thats not true and why am I not surprised that gags not look really stupid because the mouth opens way too much.

I don't know what should I be more pissed about: that you call me a liar, or that you call my work stupid.

1. I didn't lie, I just didn't realize that I forgot to revert the .esp patch after testing it with custom expression, to actually see if it works. That just happens. It happened to me multiple times when developing UD. You can't always make everything perfect on the first try. If you would call liar every mod creator who accidentally didn't do exactly what they said they did, then most of them would be liars
2. So just because the gag doesn't fit your character, it means that the whole patch is stupid. Do you realize that was not even the main reason why I ported the system ? The system is called Expression System, not Gag System. It's supposed to make it possible to change actors expressions while not breaking DD features, like gags. The "Gag customization" which I added was just a cherry on top, as I through many people had issue with gags not fitting correctly. Well, according to you, they were wrong, it was fitting correctly and naturally

Anyway, that's all, as I don't intend to start drama. If you found other lies about my stupid mods, you can PM me.

 

@Kimy Here is the quick fix

DD Def Expression Quick Fix.esp

[serranna]

5 minutes ago, ihatemykite said:

or that you call my work stupid.

 

I agree that was uncalled for. I was upset when I made that first post and I do sincerely apologize for that. I'm sure you put countless hours into development and all that work should not be insulted.

 

As far as the liar statement, as someone who has no idea in regards to how any of this works, surely you could understand how I would have no reason to believe that it was a mistake.

So you say it was an error, I can accept that and I retract all my statements. I will go back and make appropriate edits to my previous posts.

 

I do have a bad habit of lashing out when I get upset, then am forced to do damage control when I'm no longer upset. Good thing the internet is still around to preserve my stupidity forever.

 

I won't post anymore about it. Further communication in regards to this will be sent VIA PM.

[serranna]

9 hours ago, Yanme said:

I would actually much appreciate being able to modify gag phonemes

 

You can modify them, instructions on how to do so are here.

 

 

[Miauzi]

14 hours ago, Yanme said:

 

Vorwort: Ich bin mit der Art und Weise, wie die ursprüngliche Beschwerde geäußert wurde, überhaupt nicht einverstanden und kann die tatsächliche DD-Funktionalität nicht kommentieren, da ich sie noch nicht getestet habe. Ich würde es sehr begrüßen, wenn ich Gag-Phoneme modifizieren könnte (es würde das Anpassen von Gags an Charaktere so viel einfacher machen). Für diesen Beitrag gehe ich nur von den beiden hier geposteten Bildern aus (dem geknebelten Screenshot und Ihrem Bild).

Das heißt: Ihr Bild veranschaulicht perfekt, warum der Ausdruck auf dem Screenshot des Posters so sehr unnatürlich aussieht. Sicher, der Knebel ist hinter den Zähnen, was schön ist - aber die Form des Mundes ist verzerrt. Bei einem solchen Knebel würden Sie erwarten, dass die Mundwinkel mehr nach außen gerichtet sind (eine Art "Ah" -Form), wie auf Ihrem Bild perfekt gezeigt (besonders wenn der Riemen des Knebels auch die Ecken leicht nach hinten zieht). Im krassen Gegensatz dazu im Screenshot des OP. Die Mundwinkel sind sehr nach innen gerichtet und bilden einen Fisch-/Kussmund-Ausdruck. Sie sind nämlich so weit nach innen gezogen, dass die Lippen *durch den Ring klemmen*. Kurz gesagt: Das Verhältnis, wie weit der Mund von links nach rechts geöffnet ist, ist zu klein zu dem Verhältnis, wie weit der Mund von oben nach unten geöffnet ist. Ich weiß jedoch nicht, ob dies ein Problem mit den Phänomenen des Gags oder den Einstellungen / der Gesichtsform des Charakters von OP ist.

 

Eine andere Sache, die den Knebel auf dem Bild, das Sie gepostet haben, besser aussehen lässt, ist, dass die oberen Vorderzähne sichtbar sind. Ich glaube jedoch, dass dies teilweise auf die Größe des Knebels zurückzuführen ist und DDs Ringknebel nicht so groß erscheinen, sodass mehr obere Zähne möglicherweise nicht für DD passen.

 

It's like the classic own goal...

..the picture (of an extreme ring gag) that was posted - just proves that the gag (in the game) looks wrong on the user...
..completely contrary to the claims in the text.

And of course the mod authors are faced with such exotic things (like gags in the mouth) that they can hardly be solved.
The further the mouth opens - the more a real face is "distorted" - up to an unnatural wide opening of the eyelids...
..which in turn has its fans as a "gag look".
(everything cannot be implemented with the simple face models of computer games)

you really have to thank the mod authors for "turning shit to gold".