HDT SMP for SSE?

[mindmonkey]

can somebody tell me where **exactly** i can download hydrogen's most recent smp files? i went to 9damao and replied but i couldn't find a download link. (i downloaded the older version in the past without problems but now i can't seem to find it)

[perrymwt]

1 hour ago, mindmonkey said:

can somebody tell me where **exactly** i can download hydrogen's most recent smp files? i went to 9damao and replied but i couldn't find a download link. (i downloaded the older version in the past without problems but now i can't seem to find it)

I usually use this link to catch up on what hydrogenhdt is doing.  After translating of course.

[SassaAria]

6 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

*head spins* I'm sorry, but I am completely baffled by this.

 

1. Why would I want to add bones to the UUNP body, thereby rendering it non-standard, risking unintended consequences? What is the advantage of the extra bones?

2. My body currently has 2 breast bones- one left, one right. If I add two more in Outfit Studio, I would have 4. So I totally don't understand the phrase "So then UUNP can have 3 breast bones." 

Here is a screenshot of my xml to do with that section (use a heavily customized UUNP, but this was same setup on normal UUNP too).

I collapsed a bunch of entries in Notepad++  so they would all fit in one screenshot.

You'll see 3 sets of L&R bones, and then 2 relationship constraints.

This is what I meant by 3 bones.  Maybe you meant something else when you were talking about CBBE version?

I'm Oldrim only still, so maybe I'm missing something different you guys have?

 

The purpose: add additional SMP mesh deform dynamics (or make breasts move in more than one way lol)

 

 

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LOL, kind of hawt in a mutant way.

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Thanks for any clarification.

I used to try to install Blender every couple of years or so, usually based on a tip such as the one you offered. Thank you for offering it.

 

However, it is not possible for me to get Blender to any state of usefulness on any computer that I own. It is not a "Download this, extract it and put it *there* then pound the executable and make miracles happen."

 

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Blender is simply not an accessible tool for those of us who are not in the inner circle of 3D modeler elites. I have and use 3DS-Max 2015, Photoshop CS2, GIMP2, NifSkope, Creation Kit x86 and x64, Xedit, Outfit Studio and Bodyslide2. If I can't do what needs to be done with those tools than I simply can't do what needs to be done. Blender Schmender. Phooey.

 

LOL.  Phooey. 

Partly agree.  I am not a fan of the Blender interface myself.

But still grateful it exists..for free.

And that it works really well with OS.

But Blender is just not intuitive for me.  Sounds like same for you.

But i forced myself to get through the learning curve. (Never swore so much in my life)

Alot of my 3d asset making I do outside of Blender.

TBH, i didn't find Blender that much different than 3dsmax for usage (just tried 3dsmax a little bit).

But maybe there's more guides for 3dsmax?

 

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TL; DR: Thanks, but I am not able to understand, much less follow, your Blender-centric guide.

That workflow is actually not "Blender" specific at all.

Just substitute 3dsmax with Blender if that's what you prefer.

Especially if your version of 3dsMax supports Nifexport (Blender doesn't - but import works), then use that!

And most of those steps were OS steps in my "DearSassa" Mini-guide (lol).

 

The main thing is finding a 3d app you are comfortable separating that mesh into 2 pieces.

And then you import into OS, which is what most of those steps were about (and not Blender or the other 3d app).

 

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It's more like a 17-step super-double-secret process that begins with "download this basic part of the package. Now, go somewhere else and do a Google search for some plugin that starts with a "P" and reminds you of a snake but when you get to the site it will ask you to pick one from a list of dozens of possible versions without any clue as to how to make that choice.

 

LOL.  Step by Step is lovely.  Wish i would have had that.

I had to figure all that stuff on my own.  The little stuff and the big steps.

 

When you wrote you wanted to figure out how to do,

and you had shown already ability with figuring stuff out,

I thought touching on the main workflow points would be helpful. 

Was that a misjudgement on my part?

 

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Also, all of the guides we publish assume that you have somehow managed to get Blender up and running for Skyrim despite our attempts to conceal how, exactly, to do that, and also we assume that you already know how to use Blender so (like your mini-guide, dear SassaAria) we will write our guides under the assumption that you already know how to do what we will not allow any tutorials to be written to explain."

K, got it,

You want step-by-step.

That's alot of work.

Hopefully someone else can take those "keysteps" i posted, and follow it and use it,

then post a mondo tut, and you can give them +1 like,

all while giggling or chuckling about DearSassaMiniGuide,

all while I sit there going, ....should i have even bothered to post the "keysteps" ?

....that work for me to solve your issue ....and took me a long time to figure out?

 

Anywho, think it's coolsies how this SMP scene is evolving, and there are artist types like you getting involved (and I would call myself an artist-type too).

Just enabling all the artists with all that info.  Eek.  Lots of work there yet.  Will get there slowly.

Good luck.

 

 

[SassaAria]

5 hours ago, Bluegunk said:

Thanks for the info!  Of course, Kenzi! I'd forgotten I'd popped her there. Thanks for reminding me! (Senility creeping ever on...)   

 

LOL, i prefer to call it Internet Muli-media OVERLOAD!

 

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Yes - SMP in the Skyrim SE game. When I tried SMP out in January it was incredibly slow in a busy environment indoors, or in a city. So I left it. I since launched a cleaned up game with much reduced scripting and initial string count and it has played much better. Also, Hydro has been improving the SMP system. The result is pretty good in game now. Outdoors my character can by fully SMP'd! I've a fairly strong system using a 980ti with bags of memory so it handles most things thrown at it.

Glad to hear you went back to it and got it working better!!

I have a GTX1070 (which is about same i think as yours) and I keep pushing the boundaries so i groan down to 5fps. 

So have dealt a fair bit with all the stuff that impacts fps.

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But I was curious why the indoor environment causes me an FPS hit with HDT SMP goodies on the body. Removing the wig usually is enough to speed things back up.

During the night I remembered I run RLO for indoor lighting. So the additional point lighting / shadowing calcs may be loading the system. I'm going to experiment with turning that off later today. If it makes a real difference I'll consider swapping to another indoor lighting scheme, maybe ELE lite.

 

I'll let you know how it turns out. I have it all set up in MO2 so I can switch off HDT SMP with one click anyway.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

Update - swapped to ELE Lite and noticed some reasonable gains.

 

Honestly, the lighting calcs are big.  And competes with SMP for processing power.  Also papyrus load factors in there too.

If you get a bottleneck with any of those...FPS dies.  Have had it seriously grind down to 5fps.

What affects it?  Tons of variables.  And each users setup has variations so there is no one right answer wither.

 

So great to hear downgrading to ELE lite seems to be helping!

 

Also,

Does your hair have collision?

Like bounce off shoulders, back,arms and legs and stuff?

 

Would recommend you keep 2 copies of hair. One with collision when playing with outfits or sex, and another without collision for just adventuring, when the clipping isn't that bothersome because your busy with other thingies.

[khumak]

1 hour ago, SassaAria said:

Honestly, the lighting calcs are big.  And competes with SMP for processing power.  Also papyrus load factors in there too.

If you get a bottleneck with any of those...FPS dies.  Have had it seriously grind down to 5fps.

What affects it?  Tons of variables.  And each users setup has variations so there is no one right answer wither.

 

Wow that could be an issue for me if this ever gets to a more user friendly install version.  I usually have the opposite issue regarding framerate.  Indoors I'm always at 59-60 FPS.  Outdoors I'm more like 20-50 FPS depending on the area and where I'm looking.  I have a fairly low end system though.  i5-4670 with a GTX 1050Ti

 

I thought about going with a faster video card but I go into a berserk rage if my computer makes any noise whatsoever.  Which means any video card I get has to be passively cooled, no fans for me.

[SassaAria]

44 minutes ago, khumak said:

  Indoors I'm always at 59-60 FPS.  Outdoors I'm more like 20-50 FPS depending on the area and where I'm looking.

On average, I'm usually like you too.  Some outdoor cells are worse than others, by alot.

 

Find some indoor areas are bad too.  Especially there can be other characters in area that may be loaded in...and maybe they are being calculated as well even though not visible.

Have looked in CK at many the invisible Havok collision boxes for indoor and outdoor scenes trying to figure out if they are impacting somehow as well in the total processing overhead.

And that SMP for certain bone nodes like head or something is exacerbating the issue.

But am thinking more it's how the internal engine processes stuf and if you got to this part of room, and look this way, fps is normal, shift over a bit in the room, and look this way, and fps can drop dramatically.  It's like the rendering caluclations are taking place for X distance.

But you can set the view distace only so low before you impact the quality of your game, when say approaching gates outside andf want to see shadows rendered properly.

Also, the fire braziers outside i dialed down there impact outside and got an instant 15fps boost for one outdoor view.

So much niggly stuff like that.

 

It's still a WIP.  But on a break and am modding other stuff right now.

[DarkFireTim]

I've done some further testing and I think whats going on is a negative interaction feedback loop, I'm sorry for the techno babble don't worry I'll explain. For people who are jumping into the discussion here I'll go over some all ready covered ground.

 

We know that SMP shapes getting "stuck" kills FPS due to the consistent and rapid calculations SMP preforms to process the two, or more, shapes conflicting with each other. We also know that volumetric fog and godrays are bugged in SSE and cause a greater strain on the cpu and gpu than they should. On top of that something about nvidia gpus exacerbates the problem, unless you give nvidia control of your vsync which mollifies but doesn't solve the problem.

 

Now we get into my results. My tests seem to indicate that either by intention or accident SMP has a method for handling short term losses in processing power. If in the middle of a scene SMP runs into a drought of processing ability it drops what its working on throws an error and then picks up when the processing ability comes back. In most cases this seems to be a good thing as SMP continues to run with a, possibly unnoticeable, hiccup instead of stopping or crashing. The problem is that this seems to increases the chances of a shape getting "stuck" which drains processing power, which exacerbates the problem with volumetric fog and godrays, which causes further "slips" in SMP, continuing on until either the shape gets "unstuck" or your fps is at a wonderful .02 and the game might as well be frozen.

 

What does this mean and how can we, as players, avoid it? For now the simple answer is to remove as many of the points of contact as you can, and by that I mean either get rid of the fog, the godrays, or SMP. If you really want all 3 of them, like I do, then it means either reducing the number of SMP shapes or their size and complexity. This will reduce the chances of the loop spinning out of control. Another option is avoiding problem areas. Locations with large numbers of SMP shapes, fog, and or godrays, like Riften, or saving before entering new areas and taking advantage of your ability to open the system menu even during a loop to load the previous save and try again. Since loops are caused by a shape getting stuck they aren't guaranteed to happen so you may be able to try again to get in, get what you need, and get out before it starts.

 

In the future we can hope that Hydrogen-sama can code around it or that Bethesda can fix the fog/godrays. I mean FO4 didn't have this problem so it should be fixable.

 

PS: I would appreciate anyone else testing and verifying or disproving my findings.

[Vyxenne]

7 hours ago, SassaAria said:

Especially if your version of 3dsMax supports Nifexport (Blender doesn't - but import works), then use that

Well, that's the reason I can't get Blender to work- the inability to import or export a nif. Of course, that's without any plugin, so after re-re-reading your mini-guide, I tried again with Blender- I installed v2.79b (latest from GitHub) and found (to my delight) that Python/Pyffi/Geshundheit is now included in the download, making it unnecessary to choose from among several versions without knowing what the choices mean. After installing it and verifying that it is functional to the point of launching and presenting its interface, I tried several times to import a particular nif using both File >> Open and File >> Import, and it didn't even see the file to enable me to select it. So I went on the hunt for a nif plugin and found one via NifToools- pre-Alpha release 2.06 or 2.6. After 4-5 failed attempts to convince Blender to install it, I found a video online that explained how to install a different plugin and figured the same process ("Install from File") should work on the Nif plugin. Sadly, it didn't. So without being able to import or export nifs, my newfound interest in Blender reverted to its previous "Phooey" state.

 

3DS-Max, on the other hand, both imports and exports nifs directly, so I'll try to adapt your mini-guide to 3DS and see if I can figure out what you're trying to say. Thanks.

[Yoxgg04]

On 1/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, ousnius said:

Unfortunately the doubled hair issue can't be fixed unless I redo the meshes from scratch (the actual geometry is doubled in them).

However, that's too much work and hassle, so I'm not gonna do that.

 

Here's the files, though. No requirements needed.

Credits to Kalilies, Stealthic, montyj, farass, prZ, HydrogensaysHDT and me.

KS Wigs HDT SMP SE.7z

Seriously in love! My only issue is the FPS loss when going to cheat room or running around outside.

[SassaAria]

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Well, that's the reason I can't get Blender to work- the inability to import or export a nif. Of course, that's without any plugin, so after re-re-reading your mini-guide, I tried again with Blender- I installed v2.79b (latest from GitHub) and found (to my delight) that Python/Pyffi/Geshundheit is now included in the download,

 

Does this help?

 

This should? be all you need for instructions to get Nif-Import to work.

Exporting as OBJs afterwards works really well afterwards.

Can write up a short description about that, if you get nifs to import.

 

Only issue with nif imports are the textures. 

But you don't need those to do the dividing.

And adding the texture links in afterwards is pretty easy.

 

But if you get on better with 3dsmax, I don't see any reason to worry about Blender TBH.

 

 

 

[t3h0th3r]

On 5/1/2018 at 4:02 AM, SassaAria said:

You just add the bones in OS to UUNP body.

They're in the XPMSE skellie.

So then UUNP can have all 3 breast bones.

 

No, don’t do that. The bones won’t do shit with out weights and there’s the dreaded „max 4 weight limit per vertex from hell“. 

Change the name of the Collision shape in the XML to the bones you actually have in your UUNP body. 

[SassaAria]

16 minutes ago, t3h0th3r said:

No, don’t do that. The bones won’t do shit with out weights and there’s the dreaded „max 4 weight limit per vertex from hell“. 

Change the name of the Collision shape in the XML to the bones you actually have in your UUNP body. 

That's not true about no weights.  I thought so too.

The 2nd breast has a weight.

The 3 breast bone without weight- it still tugs at it cos it has mass AND Influences the 2nd node that does have weight paints.

I tested it.  Honestly.

 

And as for 4 vert limit.

Major PIA. 

But in that area specifically of underside of  breasts, there's lots of room to put one tiny dab of weight (well there is in oldrim), if you don't want to lose bone when running nifskopes clean bogus nodes.

Whether you actually NEED that 3rd bone or SMP also reads the XPMSE skellie at times is unknown to me as I didn't make the binaries, nor do I have a chatline with Hydro.

So i add the bones to my project TO BE SAFE, and it works RELIABLY.

Doing enough testing of situations that I have no interest in adding another variable that is so easy to make a non-issue by doing this way.

 

Just what works for me.

 

PS.  LOL.  I got like 8 quote notifications.  I got your message for sure lol.

See it's all fixed now.

[t3h0th3r]

Yes. The mobile site pretended it didn’t save. And i pressed the button over and over again 

 

Anyways, since i'm feeling a bit  i'd like to point out that CBBE SE and its xmls, work out of the box, no need to fiddle with anything 

 

I'll go sit in my corner again now... 

[Bluegunk]

15 hours ago, SassaAria said:

Also,

Does your hair have collision?

Like bounce off shoulders, back,arms and legs and stuff?

 

Would recommend you keep 2 copies of hair. One with collision when playing with outfits or sex, and another without collision for just adventuring, when the clipping isn't that bothersome because your busy with other thingies.

 

Yes - hair has full collision, etc. It's a wig so I'm not sure how to use a non collision version (but I think there is a wigs mod around?)

Anyhow, using ELE-Lite and the Rudy ENB version for it, I am having some very good results. I was able to remain in full HDT stuff indoors in Sleeping Giant with no noticeable effects. So I am pleased with this result and will stick with it.

 

Shame ELE is not quite as rich as RLO   

 

Thanks for your comments and help!

 

[DykkenTomb]

11 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Well, that's the reason I can't get Blender to work- the inability to import or export a nif. Of course, that's without any plugin, so after re-re-reading your mini-guide, I tried again with Blender- I installed v2.79b (latest from GitHub) and found (to my delight) that Python/Pyffi/Geshundheit is now included in the download, making it unnecessary to choose from among several versions without knowing what the choices mean. After installing it and verifying that it is functional to the point of launching and presenting its interface, I tried several times to import a particular nif using both File >> Open and File >> Import, and it didn't even see the file to enable me to select it. So I went on the hunt for a nif plugin and found one via NifToools- pre-Alpha release 2.06 or 2.6. After 4-5 failed attempts to convince Blender to install it, I found a video online that explained how to install a different plugin and figured the same process ("Install from File") should work on the Nif plugin. Sadly, it didn't. So without being able to import or export nifs, my newfound interest in Blender reverted to its previous "Phooey" state.

 

3DS-Max, on the other hand, both imports and exports nifs directly, so I'll try to adapt your mini-guide to 3DS and see if I can figure out what you're trying to say. Thanks.

You can import nifs, but you have to go into OS and setup them up as obj files. The problem is it'll require you to do the export too. You'll have to set it back up in OS and reconfigure everything from scratch which is a major hassle. 

[TheWilloughbian]

Yeah, Nif Convert/NifUtilsSuite is a big help if you want to use the Blender export NIF option. At least that's how I do it. I'll use objects if it's an armour and I know I'll be using Outfit Studio. But for statics it's faster to have it as a nif already and run it through Nif Convert real quick.

[Yoxgg04]

 

6 hours ago, Bluegunk said:

 

Yes - hair has full collision, etc. It's a wig so I'm not sure how to use a non collision version (but I think there is a wigs mod around?)

Anyhow, using ELE-Lite and the Rudy ENB version for it, I am having some very good results. I was able to remain in full HDT stuff indoors in Sleeping Giant with no noticeable effects. So I am pleased with this result and will stick with it.

 

Shame ELE is not quite as rich as RLO   

 

Thanks for your comments and help!

 

can i have a link to this hair ?

[SassaAria]

5 hours ago, DykkenTomb said:

 ...major hassle. 

...takes <5 minutes for everything when you've done it a few times.

Don't consider it a major hassle anymore.

4 hours ago, TheWilloughbian said:

Yeah, Nif Convert/NifUtilsSuite is a big help if you want to use the Blender export NIF option. At least that's how I do it. I'll use objects if it's an armour and I know I'll be using Outfit Studio. But for statics it's faster to have it as a nif already and run it through Nif Convert real quick.

Isn't that just for Blender 2.49b? Or?

Would love to have a quick tool for Export too for new versions of Blender.

 

[SassaAria]

12 hours ago, t3h0th3r said:

Yes. The mobile site pretended it didn’t save. And i pressed the button over and over again 

 

Anyways, since i'm feeling a bit  i'd like to point out that CBBE SE and its xmls, work out of the box, no need to fiddle with anything 

 

I'll go sit in my corner again now... 

LOL Enjoy!

When i saw those quote numbers going up so fast, i was going, eep what did i do....

 

[SassaAria]

9 hours ago, Bluegunk said:

 

Yes - hair has full collision, etc. It's a wig so I'm not sure how to use a non collision version (but I think there is a wigs mod around?)

 

It would actually be a matter of:

(1) finding a wig without collision - Farass Excellent conversion of KS wigs (was posted in this thread sometime earlier i'm pretty sure (was for oldrim)) was without collision.

Think that's what ousnious looked at when making the hair mesh linked on this page.

(2), or, if you have one you really like, just deleting the collision part out of the XML.

9 hours ago, Bluegunk said:

Anyhow, using ELE-Lite and the Rudy ENB version for it, I am having some very good results. I was able to remain in full HDT stuff indoors in Sleeping Giant with no noticeable effects. So I am pleased with this result and will stick with it.

 

Shame ELE is not quite as rich as RLO   

Thanks for sharing that.

Some of my best results were downscaling visual lighting stuff.

 

[DykkenTomb]

I just discovered this if anyone is interested... In the V genies for UUNP Special and the UUNP HDT-SMP I've made and scripher99 have made. If you're having a problem with the texture. You can use the texture patches from UUNP Bounce and Jiggle mod to get the full texture for the V genies whether it's fair skin, mature skin, Realistic, etc.. All the skin patches work so you don't have to worry about any weird mesh setups. 

 

Example:  

 

I'm using Fair Skins for my uunp bodies, and they are designed after special which allows the labia to have collisions. Without the right texture it either looks white or purple. On the mod page I've just given you.. Down near the bottom. You'll see a patch section. They are all textures.. Just download them and install them for whatever skin texture you have. Do not.. Do not download the V genie meshes. I'll only cause conflicts. 

 

Make sure if you are using MO2 you load the texture patch last. If you're using vortex or NMM,. Install the patch last so it overwrites the body texture from whatever skin texture your using. It works for CBBE oldrim, but not from the CBBE. Sorry, I really tried, but I'm not a texture artist. I work with specifically meshes and animation bones. But if ya follow the process. You can enjoy the results. 

 

 

[Bluegunk]

12 hours ago, SassaAria said:

(1) finding a wig without collision - Farass Excellent conversion of KS wigs (was posted in this thread sometime earlier i'm pretty sure (was for oldrim)) was without collision.

Thank you! I'll go and dig it out.  The game is now on the whole running very well with HDT SMP in. I just get the occasional drop in FPS - usually only in the smallest indoor cell possible, lol.  I've dented the game further by implementing 2x NVidia DSR. Nothing like trying to kill Skyrim by taking it to the brink...

[TheWilloughbian]

15 hours ago, SassaAria said:

 

Isn't that just for Blender 2.49b? Or?

Would love to have a quick tool for Export too for new versions of Blender.

 

I use Blender 2.78. Export as Nif. then run it though this. https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/4489-nifutilssuiteexe/

 

That' just the EXE, though. you will need this too. https://github.com/skyfox69/NifUtilsSuite

[Slashz]

On 5/1/2018 at 9:37 PM, SassaAria said:

Here is a screenshot of my xml to do with that section (use a heavily customized UUNP, but this was same setup on normal UUNP too).

I collapsed a bunch of entries in Notepad++  so they would all fit in one screenshot.

You'll see 3 sets of L&R bones, and then 2 relationship constraints.

This is what I meant by 3 bones.  Maybe you meant something else when you were talking about CBBE version?

I'm Oldrim only still, so maybe I'm missing something different you guys have?

 

The purpose: add additional SMP mesh deform dynamics (or make breasts move in more than one way lol)

 

 

 

I find this new xml writing a bit confusing than the old one but it looks way cleaner and easier to adjust however iam still using the old way of defining each part and it's values
thanks to Senpo and DykkenTomb https://www.loverslab.com/topic/96042-senpo-hdt-smp-defaultbbp-presets-for-uunp/ i created my UUNP special body and adjusted the links to my xml with my own adjusted values to make it close to real however iam still testing more options on other parts to see how it looks

[yanuage]

On 02/05/2018 at 3:32 AM, DarkFireTim said:

Locations with large numbers of SMP shapes, fog, and or godrays, like Riften, or saving before entering new areas and taking advantage of your ability to open the system menu even during a loop to load the previous save and try again. Since loops are caused by a shape getting stuck they aren't guaranteed to happen so you may be able to try again to get in, get what you need, and get out before it starts.

 

In the future we can hope that Hydrogen-sama can code around it or that Bethesda can fix the fog/godrays. I mean FO4 didn't have this problem so it should be fixable.

 

PS: I would appreciate anyone else testing and verifying or disproving my findings.

 

my HDT-SMP always crash in RIFTEN...

in RIFTEN outdoor, my FPS run at 30-35 only and each time i enter in riften house from riften outdoor, my FPS decrease progressively to 0 where i'm stuck.

but if i load auto-save from entering, my FPS run at a normal 60 FPS for a small indoor.

 

i try to desactivate god ray and shadows, and i force v-sync on my nvdia setting.

but from what I've seen, it's the CPU that is overloaded, and none of what I'm doing on the video card affects the thing.

i don't think that my i5-7600k can't handle that... i've a good 60fps in markath in/outdoor; so i don't know what happen in Riften.