Ernest Lemmingway Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 so really it's not mod support that consoles are getting, it's plug-in support. [...] I wonder how salty the BethNet forums are going to be when they realize this. I can't speak for most, but three I know IRL are so infuriated they've shelved their copies and sworn never to buy another Bethesda game over this. They won't be posting. But it's going to be an absolute laugh riot to read what others say when the ugly truth sinks in.
Trykz Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I have nothing against console players, most are genuinely excited to be able to participate in what most of us have been doing for a decade. But those special few assholes are going to be the ones that ruin it for everyone. And it makes me angry to see modders get treated poorly, the theft and ranting on Bethesda.net will drive a lot of people away that would have had amazing ideas to bring to the fold. That'll be the biggest crime I think, drive away creative talent that would have benefited us tremendously. All I can hope is that anyone thinking about quitting just hang in there. You know, I quite enjoy challenges. So modding for all platforms looked quite appealing on the surface. Then, the ugliness of what it would mean to mod for all platforms began to come into focus. And I began digging into just how bad it might get should I choose to do so. The turnoffs (for me at least) of modding for consoles began not with the console community, but with Bethesda themselves. While I appreciate the games they make and the tools they give us for modding, I don't appreciate their hijacking of the stuff I create using said games and tools. Not because I'm selfish, but because they WILL NOT provide tech support for anything I create and give them control over. They get paid for their stuff. We don't. You want it? Then you support it and fix anything you break with your patches and updates to the game as they happen. No? Then fuck you.... The console community just compounded that turnoff immensely, and continues to do so with every passing hour. I know the entirety of the console community (or even it's majority) isn't comprised of entitlement filled jackasses with little to no regard or respect for the time and effort modders put into their creations. But for me, the risk of my mods being hijacked by some pimply faced fucktard and handed off to Beth.net simply outweigh my desire to create anything for consoles, and protect my stuff with every measure I can find to restrict it's use to PC only. At least that way, it's ME who calls the shots where my mods are concerned. Not Bethesda, or some snot-nosed console punk with more free time than brains. Trykz
Brvtality Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I have nothing against console players, most are genuinely excited to be able to participate in what most of us have been doing for a decade. But those special few assholes are going to be the ones that ruin it for everyone. And it makes me angry to see modders get treated poorly, the theft and ranting on Bethesda.net will drive a lot of people away that would have had amazing ideas to bring to the fold. That'll be the biggest crime I think, drive away creative talent that would have benefited us tremendously. All I can hope is that anyone thinking about quitting just hang in there. You know, I quite enjoy challenges. So modding for all platforms looked quite appealing on the surface. Then, the ugliness of what it would mean to mod for all platforms began to come into focus. And I began digging into just how bad it might get should I choose to do so. The turnoffs (for me at least) of modding for consoles began not with the console community, but with Bethesda themselves. While I appreciate the games they make and the tools they give us for modding, I don't appreciate their hijacking of the stuff I create using said games and tools. Not because I'm selfish, but because they WILL NOT provide tech support for anything I create and give them control over. They get paid for their stuff. We don't. You want it? Then you support it and fix anything you break with your patches and updates to the game as they happen. No? Then fuck you.... The console community just compounded that turnoff immensely, and continues to do so with every passing hour. I know the entirety of the console community (or even it's majority) isn't comprised of entitlement filled jackasses with little to no regard or respect for the time and effort modders put into their creations. But for me, the risk of my mods being hijacked by some pimply faced fucktard and handed off to Beth.net simply outweigh my desire to create anything for consoles, and protect my stuff with every measure I can find to restrict it's use to PC only. At least that way, it's ME who calls the shots where my mods are concerned. Not Bethesda, or some snot-nosed console punk with more free time than brains. Trykz As it should be, Craftsman sells drills, if you use a drill to build a very ornate table Craftsman doesn't get a royalty from the sale of that table. I look at it the same way with this situation. You paid for the game and the tools that come along with it. Anything that comes after that is the modder's intellectual property and should be protected with all measures. I had this argument just the other day with a console gamer. Yes Bethesda provides the platform and the tools, but everything that comes after that is all modder inspired. And the theft of that isn't something that should be taken lightly. And it is indeed theft. Console gamers can laugh it off like it isn't serious, Bethesda doesn't seem to be making as big as deal as they should at the moment. But trust in that it will come back to bite the console community. This may be the first and last attempt at opening consoles up to modding. Other companies are taking note, memory is long. Not to mention the fact they'll soon be left in a dark room when all the modders start making F4SE a requirement.
panthercom Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Bethesda could also just pay one of their employees to make mods, if they aren't already doing that.
AsariX Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I have nothing against console players, most are genuinely excited to be able to participate in what most of us have been doing for a decade. But those special few assholes are going to be the ones that ruin it for everyone. And it makes me angry to see modders get treated poorly, the theft and ranting on Bethesda.net will drive a lot of people away that would have had amazing ideas to bring to the fold. That'll be the biggest crime I think, drive away creative talent that would have benefited us tremendously. All I can hope is that anyone thinking about quitting just hang in there. You know, I quite enjoy challenges. So modding for all platforms looked quite appealing on the surface. Then, the ugliness of what it would mean to mod for all platforms began to come into focus. And I began digging into just how bad it might get should I choose to do so. The turnoffs (for me at least) of modding for consoles began not with the console community, but with Bethesda themselves. While I appreciate the games they make and the tools they give us for modding, I don't appreciate their hijacking of the stuff I create using said games and tools. Not because I'm selfish, but because they WILL NOT provide tech support for anything I create and give them control over. They get paid for their stuff. We don't. You want it? Then you support it and fix anything you break with your patches and updates to the game as they happen. No? Then fuck you.... The console community just compounded that turnoff immensely, and continues to do so with every passing hour. I know the entirety of the console community (or even it's majority) isn't comprised of entitlement filled jackasses with little to no regard or respect for the time and effort modders put into their creations. But for me, the risk of my mods being hijacked by some pimply faced fucktard and handed off to Beth.net simply outweigh my desire to create anything for consoles, and protect my stuff with every measure I can find to restrict it's use to PC only. At least that way, it's ME who calls the shots where my mods are concerned. Not Bethesda, or some snot-nosed console punk with more free time than brains. Trykz As it should be, Craftsman sells drills, if you use a drill to build a very ornate table Craftsman doesn't get a royalty from the sale of that table. I look at it the same way with this situation. You paid for the game and the tools that come along with it. Anything that comes after that is the modder's intellectual property and should be protected with all measures. I had this argument just the other day with a console gamer. Yes Bethesda provides the platform and the tools, but everything that comes after that is all modder inspired. And the theft of that isn't something that should be taken lightly. And it is indeed theft. Console gamers can laugh it off like it isn't serious, Bethesda doesn't seem to be making as big as deal as they should at the moment. But trust in that it will come back to bite the console community. This may be the first and last attempt at opening consoles up to modding. Other companies are taking note, memory is long. Not to mention the fact they'll soon be left in a dark room when all the modders start making F4SE a requirement. It's even simpler than that, since those kids don't understand traditional handwork or craftsmanship anyway. Beth made Fallout 4. Fallout 4 runs on XBox, PS4 and Windows. Is Fallout 4 now the intellectual property of Microsoft (66.7%) and Sony (33.3%)? because it operates under their operating systems? No, ofcourse not! Just imagine the shitstorm game developers would raise if Sony and Microsoft were to include some of the "license agreements" on their systems which game developers try to include themselves? The modder still has to keep the intellectual property on his or her mods and any original assets included with it. It's really as simple as that, and that's how it (gladly, currently) works even. Beth certainly wishes they could claim ownership on the mods, but even they acknowledge that not a single soul would make any elaborate mods which extends the lifecycle of their product for free. Even Beth understands their claimed "non-exclusive license" is about as far as they can push it, otherwise mods for their games would go underground, and they wouldn't ever see any benefit from them again.
Karin Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I think they are not serious, they must kidding o.O I honestly never get this "pc vs console war" what wrong enyoing it? I play on both and have fun. They are different games for it, exlusive or same genre are jut better on pc, some on console that all. There is no 'PC vs Console' war. As far as I know, the majority of PC users do not give a single fuck what platform you use. I'm not going to say all PC users, some do indeed disapprove of console users. The whole 'PC Master Race/Console Peasantry' thing is meant to be used as a joke said by games reviewer Yahtzee during his review of Witcher (In which he's actually criticising the game for being too complex so it only caters for PC gamers). Most PC gamers don't actually care if you use a PC or an Xbox or a PS4 or a Sega Saturn or a fucking ZX Spectrum. From what I've seen, the console gamers are the ones being angry at PC gamers, accusing us of being elitist and outright insulting us despite a lot of people being calm and trying to explain to them why the CK can't come to console or why a lot of mods are limited to PC. But soo many pc player take this "joke" so serious, and even console player insulting pc gamer. Like this" they refuse make mod for us becouse we play on console" etc I know modding can´t work well on console but saying pc is master race is stupid too, PC have good game console too, why don´t enjoy both. I think they are not serious, they must kidding o.O I honestly never get this "pc vs console war" what wrong enyoing it? I play on both and have fun. They are different games for it, exlusive or same genre are jut better on pc, some on console that all. There is no 'PC vs Console' war. As far as I know, the majority of PC users do not give a single fuck what platform you use. I'm not going to say all PC users, some do indeed disapprove of console users. The whole 'PC Master Race/Console Peasantry' thing is meant to be used as a joke said by games reviewer Yahtzee during his review of Witcher (In which he's actually criticising the game for being too complex so it only caters for PC gamers). Most PC gamers don't actually care if you use a PC or an Xbox or a PS4 or a Sega Saturn or a fucking ZX Spectrum. From what I've seen, the console gamers are the ones being angry at PC gamers, accusing us of being elitist and outright insulting us despite a lot of people being calm and trying to explain to them why the CK can't come to console or why a lot of mods are limited to PC. It's very much a "One Sided War" Most PC users don't care, except for the fact that PC is getting less and less attention with games. Most games are not getting store releases, and are only getting released online. Which in itself isn't terrible. Less waiting in long lines for us, fighting over low supply with high demand, etc. I think there is some jealousy on both sides, but a lot of Console users take it too far. I have an XBox 360 and an XBox One. I spend most of my time on my PC tho. I haven't really liked a controller since SNES. haha As for the CK, I seriously doubt it is even feasible to have it on console. I mean really. How would that even work? Yeah I suppose you could get a keypad attachment for the controller or something, but still...Those things are awkward. I really don't think they were meant to be development platforms I know right I had no idea they want even port it, never read about it .) The issue is that these console clowns are going to Nexus and demanding the mod authors to port their mods to console. Can you show a few, please? I never saw on nexus post too I think they are not serious, they must kidding o.O I honestly never get this "pc vs console war" what wrong enyoing it? I play on both and have fun. They are different games for it, exlusive or same genre are jut better on pc, some on console that all. There is no 'PC vs Console' war. As far as I know, the majority of PC users do not give a single fuck what platform you use. I'm not going to say all PC users, some do indeed disapprove of console users. The whole 'PC Master Race/Console Peasantry' thing is meant to be used as a joke said by games reviewer Yahtzee during his review of Witcher (In which he's actually criticising the game for being too complex so it only caters for PC gamers). Most PC gamers don't actually care if you use a PC or an Xbox or a PS4 or a Sega Saturn or a fucking ZX Spectrum. From what I've seen, the console gamers are the ones being angry at PC gamers, accusing us of being elitist and outright insulting us despite a lot of people being calm and trying to explain to them why the CK can't come to console or why a lot of mods are limited to PC. It's very much a "One Sided War" Most PC users don't care, except for the fact that PC is getting less and less attention with games. Most games are not getting store releases, and are only getting released online. Which in itself isn't terrible. Less waiting in long lines for us, fighting over low supply with high demand, etc. I think there is some jealousy on both sides, but a lot of Console users take it too far. I have an XBox 360 and an XBox One. I spend most of my time on my PC tho. I haven't really liked a controller since SNES. haha As for the CK, I seriously doubt it is even feasible to have it on console. I mean really. How would that even work? Yeah I suppose you could get a keypad attachment for the controller or something, but still...Those things are awkward. I really don't think they were meant to be development platforms Well, there's one thing PC gamers do complain about, and that is games having their control system "streamlined", which, to a PC gamer, means as much as "simplified". Setups with 20 hotkeys for different abilities are a thing of the past, as such control schemes won't work on controllers, which simply do not have enough buttons to handle that. This streamlining of controls results in less abilities, as well as the pace of the game toning down to allow for changing abilities on the fly. Other hotkeys get merged, with the game picking the appropriate ablity to use, and some abilities even get merged into a single new ability. So, the complaint PC gamers most often have about consoles, is that consoles cause games to dumb down. Even Fallout saw that complaint: lack of assignable hotkeys, simplified perks, the conversation wheel, the implementation of VATS. Those characteristics didn't come out of nowhere. They're more or less required to have fluent gameplay on a console. I never really checked, but do consoles also have aim-assist in Fallout for their free-aim combat, or does their combat nearly entirely rely on VATS? I only played F4 on pc no idea, but many pc game was "dump down" and they are pc exlusive, it start with WoW for MMO genre and all other games follow. it´s have nothing with it, they just want bring games to casual people
Akzyra Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 More DDprod: Only 15min in, but being able to crash/shutdown/disable a mod on a console seems nice. Put that into the PC version of the mod, and of some noob without knowledge ports it... FUN TIMES FOR USERS! Maybe even display a message that the mod you use is stolen. As a sidenote, maybe I should start scraping the latest mods of beth.net (or as DD calls it lovingly: beth.aids) to see what gets stolen.
AsariX Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 it´s have nothing with it, they just want bring games to casual people I only played F4 on pc no idea, but many pc game was "dump down" and they are pc exlusive, it start with WoW for MMO genre and all other games follow. In WoW, something else happened as well: Activision took over, which is a company with its roots and entire game-philosophy originating in gaming-halls (and game machines had a controller setup nearly identical to.. modern consoles!). They're addiction-based, not gameplay based. The whole philosophy of their games, is to build excitement around the present the player will get, make the player perform an extremely simple task, for example, pressing one single button which has a catch that is easy to circumvent (to add an illusion of "skill" while drawing attention away from any blatant RNG), draw out the excitement of the expectation a bit longer (insert animation of chest opening here), and then give a reward. Hint at the next reward on success, while gently reminding on the simplicity of the task (hey, I only needed to press a button, so next time I'll get it right!) in case of failure. Definitely require the player to regularly insert more coins. WoW already had the RNG in place with the lootlists, Blizzard just made the stick for the carrot a bit too long by requiring some actual skill and slightly advanced features (15+ hotkey keyboard setups were quite common in Vanilla!). So when Activision took over, they shortened the stick by reducing the hotkeys required to only 5. While increasing the RNG. I always think it's hilarious when people talk about Blizzard as if that company still existed. It's just a name, it's not the company.
Karin Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 it´s have nothing with it, they just want bring games to casual people I only played F4 on pc no idea, but many pc game was "dump down" and they are pc exlusive, it start with WoW for MMO genre and all other games follow. In WoW, something else happened as well: Activision took over, which is a company with its roots and entire game-philosophy originating in gaming-halls (and game machines had a controller setup nearly identical to.. modern consoles!). They're addiction-based, not gameplay based. The whole philosophy of their games, is to build excitement around the present the player will get, make the player perform an extremely simple task, for example, pressing one single button which has a catch that is easy to circumvent (to add an illusion of "skill" while drawing attention away from any blatant RNG), draw out the excitement of the expectation a bit longer (insert animation of chest opening here), and then give a reward. Hint at the next reward on success, while gently reminding on the simplicity of the task (hey, I only needed to press a button, so next time I'll get it right!) in case of failure. Definitely require the player to regularly insert more coins. WoW already had the RNG in place with the lootlists, Blizzard just made the stick for the carrot a bit too long by requiring some actual skill and slightly advanced features (15+ hotkey keyboard setups were quite common in Vanilla!). So when Activision took over, they shortened the stick by reducing the hotkeys required to only 5. While increasing the RNG. I always think it's hilarious when people talk about Blizzard as if that company still existed. It's just a name, it's not the company. You can say same about Diablo III I love Diablo II but 3 is really bad game, sc 2 didn´t end well. Problem is they did casual MMORPG and latter they make it more and more easy even again player will, they care only about money and ignore option
AsariX Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 it´s have nothing with it, they just want bring games to casual people I only played F4 on pc no idea, but many pc game was "dump down" and they are pc exlusive, it start with WoW for MMO genre and all other games follow. In WoW, something else happened as well: Activision took over, which is a company with its roots and entire game-philosophy originating in gaming-halls (and game machines had a controller setup nearly identical to.. modern consoles!). They're addiction-based, not gameplay based. The whole philosophy of their games, is to build excitement around the present the player will get, make the player perform an extremely simple task, for example, pressing one single button which has a catch that is easy to circumvent (to add an illusion of "skill" while drawing attention away from any blatant RNG), draw out the excitement of the expectation a bit longer (insert animation of chest opening here), and then give a reward. Hint at the next reward on success, while gently reminding on the simplicity of the task (hey, I only needed to press a button, so next time I'll get it right!) in case of failure. Definitely require the player to regularly insert more coins. WoW already had the RNG in place with the lootlists, Blizzard just made the stick for the carrot a bit too long by requiring some actual skill and slightly advanced features (15+ hotkey keyboard setups were quite common in Vanilla!). So when Activision took over, they shortened the stick by reducing the hotkeys required to only 5. While increasing the RNG. I always think it's hilarious when people talk about Blizzard as if that company still existed. It's just a name, it's not the company. You can say same about Diablo III I love Diablo II but 3 is really bad game, sc 2 didn´t end well. Problem is they did casual MMORPG and latter they make it more and more easy even again player will, they care only about money and ignore option Yup, Diablo I & II were made by Blizzard, Diablo III is a typical Activision game.
Guest MonsterFish Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 But soo many pc player take this "joke" so serious, and even console player insulting pc gamer. Like this" they refuse make mod for us becouse we play on console" etc I know modding can´t work well on console but saying pc is master race is stupid too, PC have good game console too, why don´t enjoy both. I have yet to see "PC Master Race" being used in these arguments (Well, I've not really scoured the 4 corners of the internet but from what I have seen personally). I've seen "Console Peasants" etc. used but these are mostly Ad Hominem attacks rather than attacks on the console itself. As I said before, nobody really gives a shit what people use, no one has said that people can't enjoy FO4 on Console. People are mad that console users are porting without permission, whining when someone righteously calls them out, insults the PC community and calls them liars for not porting mods despite them doing it because it's their mod or they simply can't port it.
Sural Argonus Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 The only time I take the "joke" serious is when the console weenies throw it in my face. I don't seek the fight, but they come at me.It starts like "I play on PC..." and they come in droves to tell me how much I suck in their little pissant ways. I don't start it, and most of the time it isn't worth fighting about it with pre-pubescent mentally undeveloped trolls...
Akzyra Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Ok did it: A tool to list the latest mods from Bethesda and save them. Have an image. The red entries are 3 users I blacklisted. Crazy... Not sure what I will do with it now, maybe expand it a bit. Edit: As it seems I crashed my Server, reinstalling... Meaning I will loose some mods if they get deleted.
Tsadok Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Ok did it: A tool to list the latest mods from Bethesda and save them. Have an image. The red entries are 3 users I blacklisted. Crazy... Not sure what I will do with it now, maybe expand it a bit. Edit: As it seems I crashed my Server, reinstalling... Meaning I will loose some mods if they get deleted. whoa, hey, that very first mod in the list? that wouldn't happen to be this mod, would it? http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10382/? Cause if so that's blatant mod stealing. Dumbass didn't even try to change the name or anything.
Akzyra Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Ok did it: A tool to list the latest mods from Bethesda and save them. Have an image. The red entries are 3 users I blacklisted. Crazy... Not sure what I will do with it now, maybe expand it a bit. Edit: As it seems I crashed my Server, reinstalling... Meaning I will loose some mods if they get deleted. whoa, hey, that very first mod in the list? that wouldn't happen to be this mod, would it? http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10382/? Cause if so that's blatant mod stealing. Dumbass didn't even try to change the name or anything. Probably. And the mods with weird names are all gone as well. Server and site is back up now, see it here. It updates the latest 20 mods very frequently and 50 in bigger intervals. Every 2 hours 200 mods to get all those ratings for older mods. It will list every mod ever created (unless created and deleted between indexing mods). Blacklisted user are just few, stealing died down for now. Probably all banned/asleep. Ratings are updated if the mod is still on beth.net. Hover over the name to see an icon. Plans: Display if a mod got deleted from beth.net. I guess it would be quite interesting.
Kriegera Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I hope this bites Bethesda in a big way. Maybe then they won't turn their rpgs into twitch shooters in order to appeal to Ritalin scarfing assholes. I also love the contrast here. - Pc modders build an outstanding community that despite a few hiccups manages to exist peacefully for almost a decade. - Console assholes get mods and manage to turn everything to shit in less than three days. GG Bethesda.
Tsadok Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 Ok did it: A tool to list the latest mods from Bethesda and save them. Have an image. The red entries are 3 users I blacklisted. Crazy... Not sure what I will do with it now, maybe expand it a bit. Edit: As it seems I crashed my Server, reinstalling... Meaning I will loose some mods if they get deleted. whoa, hey, that very first mod in the list? that wouldn't happen to be this mod, would it? http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10382/? Cause if so that's blatant mod stealing. Dumbass didn't even try to change the name or anything. Probably. And the mods with weird names are all gone as well. Server and site is back up now, see it here. It updates the latest 20 mods very frequently and 50 in bigger intervals. Every 2 hours 200 mods to get all those ratings for older mods. It will list every mod ever created (unless created and deleted between indexing mods). Blacklisted user are just few, stealing died down for now. Probably all banned/asleep. Ratings are updated if the mod is still on beth.net. Hover over the name to see an icon. Plans: Display if a mod got deleted from beth.net. I guess it would be quite interesting. I am not a programmer, last time I tried writing code I got assaulted by my boyfriend with a spray bottle while yelling "NO, BAD ORC!", but I wonder how hard it would be to add an option to see if the BethNet mod uploader is the same as the Nexus or LL uploader if the same mod exists on those sites. It might not even be worth it, but it would give a way for mod creators to keep an eye on mod theft.
DoctaSax Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 Eh, people have been known to use different usernames for different sites. Especially this one
Sural Argonus Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 It's not just about blatant mod theft...it's about these idiots trying to upload mods to BethNet that aren't console friendly. Either they don't know or don't care if they are. Some of these mods are just flat out not compatible with the consoles. I've been hearing some of them hose up the game, and people are blaming Bethesda for it. heh
Trykz Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I've pretty much resolved myself to using triple layer DRM in my mods to deter theft. ESM, F4SE, and Main/Texture.ba2's. The ESM usage has always been pretty standard for me anyway, because it facilitates easier creation of plugins specifically built for my race mods (followers, etc..). Likewise with archiving things. The F4SE thing will be kinda new though. I've seen nearly all manner of asshattery over there at Beth.net at this point. And they just left it to it's own devices for the entire weekend. No moderators on the forums, no one checking uploads in real-time to catch potential thefts. There's an EXTREMELY SIMPLE solution to stop all this shit in it's tracks: 3 day delays on ALL mod uploads. Regardless of platform. 1) Mod gets uploaded to Beth.net (is immediately displayed on the main page, but CANNOT be immediately downloaded) 2) Said mod is immediately listed for preview (by the entire community) and for moderator review (for appropriate content and for any signs of potential theft) 3) 72 hours later, said mod is released for use and it's download button activated (to give modders and others the opportunity to review the downloads for any unauthorized uploads of their work) Done and done. Stolen mods have plenty of time to get caught by multiple sources (peers, authors, authorized users, etc...) It's so simple, Bethesda will NEVER think of it themselves Trykz
Ernest Lemmingway Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I hope this bites Bethesda in a big way. Maybe then they won't turn their rpgs into twitch shooters in order to appeal to Ritalin scarfing assholes. I also love the contrast here. - Pc modders build an outstanding community that despite a few hiccups manages to exist peacefully for almost a decade. - Console assholes get mods and manage to turn everything to shit in less than three days. GG Bethesda. I'm sure it will hit Bethesda. Too many mod authors quitting = Bethesda losing money as mods aren't made and everyone quits buying their products. Too many mods can't be used on consoles = Bethesda losing money as console players quit buying their products. Either way, all that time and money put into BethNet will be lost when it fails to drum up the business their projecting it will. I've pretty much resolved myself to using triple layer DRM in my mods to deter theft. ESM, F4SE, and Main/Texture.ba2's. The ESM usage has always been pretty standard for me anyway, because it facilitates easier creation of plugins specifically built for my race mods (followers, etc..). Likewise with archiving things. The F4SE thing will be kinda new though. I like how you think. Another way to deter mod thieves, though not necessarily a mature one, is to make sure their names are trumpeted everywhere so people can harangue them for killing mods on consoles. But who said PC or console gamers are mature?
DoctaSax Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 There's an EXTREMELY SIMPLE solution to stop all this shit in it's tracks: 3 day delays on ALL mod uploads. Regardless of platform. 1) Mod gets uploaded to Beth.net (is immediately displayed on the main page, but CANNOT be immediately downloaded) 2) Said mod is immediately listed for preview (by the entire community) and for moderator review (for appropriate content and for any signs of potential theft) 3) 72 hours later, said mod is released for use and it's download button activated (to give modders and others the opportunity to review the downloads for any unauthorized uploads of their work) Done and done. Stolen mods have plenty of time to get caught by multiple sources (peers, authors, authorized users, etc...) It's so simple, Bethesda will NEVER think of it themselves Trykz I don't think it's really that simple. To positively rule out any degree of theft, the people investigating have to be aware of every asset ever made, whether from other mods, rendering sites or other games. It's an impossible task for any site to be 100% theft-proof. The only thing you can do is act swiftly when such content is reported. And in that, yes, Beth really needs to step up, and make examples of the people caught doing it. Let's face it, if they're having trouble even doing that, a 3-day screening process is definitely not in the cards. Anyway, mod theft is nothing new. The only reason for this sudden surge, and the outrage around it, is that there's a new platform for mods where they simply haven't put sufficient measures against it in place yet. I think they'll improve on that account and things will settle down in the long run. However, between this, the awful site structure and the murky legal parameters of modding for beth.net, it's proven quite the disappointment. Sad, really, it could've been good.
mfeile1974 Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 First article that I have seen on the topic on Facebook. http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52408/fallout-4-console-mod-theft-threatens-destroy-modding-community/index.html
Trykz Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I don't think it's really that simple. To positively rule out any degree of theft, the people investigating have to be aware of every asset ever made, whether from other mods, rendering sites or other games. It's an impossible task for any site to be 100% theft-proof. The only thing you can do is act swiftly when such content is reported. And in that, yes, Beth really needs to step up, and make examples of the people caught doing it. Let's face it, if they're having trouble even doing that, a 3-day screening process is definitely not in the cards. Anyway, mod theft is nothing new. The only reason for this sudden surge, and the outrage around it, is that there's a new platform for mods where they simply haven't put sufficient measures against it in place yet. I think they'll improve on that account and things will settle down in the long run. However, between this, the awful site structure and the murky legal parameters of modding for beth.net, it's proven quite the disappointment. Sad, really, it could've been good. Certainly nothing is foolproof. But utilizing a "cooldown" period on mod uploads would go a long way toward deterring mod theft in a big way. The added benefit being, Bethesda has sufficient time once a report of alleged theft is made to verify the claim, remove the mod once verified it was in fact stolen, and issue appropriate disciplinary measures to the uploader account. The mod cannot then be simply re-uploaded once it's been identified, until (and if) the mod's author does so themselves. Similar mods can also be flagged for verification (upon submission of proof that the uploader did indeed acquire permissions for uploading/conversion if they aren't the mod's author), to confirm they're not just previously stolen mods that have been renamed. Waiting 3 days for a highly anticipated mod to clear verification is not much to ask. Highly anticipated games require waiting for months on end. A few days is nothing when you're talking about the security of intellectual property. One person, 8 hours a day, verifying claims of mod theft is the LEAST they could do. Bethesda brought this upon themselves. I know of no modder who ASKED them to force mods on consoles down our throats. They caused this shitstorm, so the onus is on them to remedy the situation. And if they have to pay someone a salary to do nothing but verify mods uploaded to their site, then so be it. They're the ones making all the money. Not us. We provide our time and content for nothing. The least they can do is make us feel somewhat more secure about sharing it on their new service. Trykz
DoctaSax Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 Every site that allows the public to upload content is legally in the clear as long as they act on reports of copyright infringement within a suitable timeframe. I don't see why Bethesda would ever go the extra mile by adding a screening process, when other sites don't do that either.
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