Guest endgameaddiction Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Some people have high expectations and others don't. I don't deny that till this day Fallout 3 holds a special place in my heart. It always will. Even though it's just another broken game on their list. It was my first Bethesda game. What can I say? Then I played New Vegas and it was just as bad (if not worse) in stability. I never finished the main quest because it was so bugged out I gave up. It took me 3 years later to finally do OWB and LR DLCs. And the heck with HH. Didn't like the quest, but I was stuck in that DLC after completing it. I couldn't go back to the Mojave. Might of been a bug with mod. I dunno. Then I blindy got into TES because I was bored of Fallout. Wanted something fresh to play and then heavily mod. I wish I would of researched and ask questions about it before buying the Anthology for 80USD. Skyrim was just hell to get going. Still is at times. I've literally started over more times in these last almost 2 years then I have on Fallout 3 (5 years on and barely off) + New Vegas combined. I played Oblivion for a little over an hour (no mods) before it crashed and my savegame had gotten corrupted. Never went back. Never started a new game. Just left it like that. I lost interest after that. I never wanted to mod it anyways. I just wanted to enjoy the game (like Skyrim with no mods first). But what I really wanted was to really get into the whole TES story. I played Arena for a bit. Haven't really tried Daggerfall or Morrowind. I might. I dunno. But what I do know, I shouldn't have let that sales person point me to TES Anthology because it was cheaper just buying the whole collection when I just wanted Skyrim which was going for like 50-60USD. Figured, what the heck... I'll get into the whole series. Maybe one day. I mean I bought it. Might as well, right? But after the crap I went through with Skyrim my first month, I was deperately looking to just put TES Anthology on craiglist and sell it for 50USD.
RitualClarity Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Some people have high expectations and others don't. I don't deny that till this day Fallout 3 holds a special place in my heart. It always will. Even though it's just another broken game on their list. It was my first Bethesda game. What can I say? Then I played New Vegas and it was just as bad (if not worse) in stability. I never finished the main quest because it was so bugged out I gave up. It took me 3 years later to finally do OWB and LR DLCs. And the heck with HH. Didn't like the quest, but I was stuck in that DLC after completing it. I couldn't go back to the Mojave. Might of been a bug with mod. I dunno. Then I blindy got into TES because I was bored of Fallout. Wanted something fresh to play and then heavily mod. I wish I would of researched and ask questions about it before buying the Anthology for 80USD. Skyrim was just hell to get going. Still is at times. I've literally started over more times in these last almost 2 years then I have on Fallout 3 (5 years on and barely off) + New Vegas combined. I played Oblivion for a little over an hour (no mods) before it crashed and my savegame had gotten corrupted. Never went back. Never started a new game. Just left it like that. I lost interest after that. I never wanted to mod it anyways. I just wanted to enjoy the game (like Skyrim with no mods first). But what I really wanted was to really get into the whole TES story. I played Arena for a bit. Haven't really tried Daggerfall or Morrowind. I might. I dunno. But what I do know, I shouldn't have let that sales person point me to TES Anthology because it was cheaper just buying the whole collection when I just wanted Skyrim which was going for like 50-60USD. Figured, what the heck... I'll get into the whole series. Maybe one day. I mean I bought it. Might as well, right? But after the crap I went through with Skyrim my first month, I was deperately looking to just put TES Anthology on craiglist and sell it for 50USD. Yes. I understand it is crap that you wasted yoru 80USD. However think of it this way.. now you know what it is and what it means to you. I also loved Fallout3. Never had as much problems as others here had with the unmodded versions of the game (Fallout NV, Skyrim, Oblivion) I enjoyed Fallout NV and completed it several times without mods and shorlty later with a few select mods (Project Nevada etc) then finally resurrected both fallout 3 and NV with the mods on this site. All in all it was a success. I feel my money was well spent for the entertainment I have obtained from the games. So far I have enjoyed and gotten more out of these games than I have any other game I ever owned. Skyrim.. was almost unplayable without mods and Obliviion wasn't that much better without some basic mods but "good enough" for a purchase with a nice sale. Now with Fallout 4.. I am not engaged in the characters. I am not entertained by the quest. It just isn't what Fallout was for me in the past. It was a waste of money buying it right away. I did so because of the hours of entertainment. Now we will get modding tools but might have troubles getting animation tools to work etc. Going forward sadly.. I won't be buying this games newer editions right away. Likely do what I have done with the TES series. wait for an excellent sale and a nice mature modding environment before buying. Even if the mod scene can correct the issues I experience and provide massive entertainment in the future I will still wait because of one simple fact. Bethesda didn't provide the experience I needed for purchase of a new game, the modding community did. I can't see myself giving Bethesda the full price for a product that doesn't provide me with the full experience I expected. It is a personal choice, my choice and regrettable that it has come to this for me but I guess I being the old Fallout fan alien isn't the market they are shooting for.
junkacc Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Still don't understand the mentality of buying a game at release, with the bugs, the price, and hype machine at full blow, you should know by now you're playing the sucker's part. When something is hyped so much the first thing you should do is be suspicious.
RitualClarity Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Still don't understand the mentality of buying a game at release, with the bugs, the price, and hype machine at full blow, you should know by now you're playing the sucker's part. When something is hyped so much the first thing you should do is be suspicious. In this case you are buying because of previous experiences. In my case I enjoyed and played extensively the previous versions of Fallout 3 and Fallout NV. Still most fond of Fallout 3. I suspect most people that bought it on release bought it because of their fondness for the franchise and experiences with the previous editions. As for bugs and problems the only problems I had was .. 1) I get motion sick sometimes with the default settings.. which occur with various games and not Besthesda's fault.. 2). a Pipboy issue where it become to close to read. A glitch that I can't figure out but managed to fix and now it works properly. Might have been my messing around with the character development to tweak it after it was already created... Again.. not Besthesda's fault. I experienced no crashes, bugs, or other issues that were serious enough to prevent my play (correction. one quest didn't complete for some reason nothing very major. ) All in all it was very stable for a fresh release and has gotten better after a few recent updates. It actually was quite well behaved for me. On par if not better than many other games (some new releases) I have gotten in the past.
Kendo 2 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I always gave Bethesda the benefit of doubt and looked at their games as a venue to mod, that is until Skyrim. Wait what? No added animations? What? Two body meshes to deal with for outfits? Huh? No custom races without scripts to circumvent what's coded into the game? Then there was the game play itself and being railroaded into the main quest by other quests that had nothing to do with it. NOW there is FO4 where the meat of the game IS THE MAIN QUEST. There is no avoiding it unless you just wander around on a tiny map and shoot things without talking to any NPCs. I doubt mods will be fixing FO4 like in previous Bethesda titles. There isn't an RPG element to start with so adding one will be a serious pain. Alternate start mods will be next to impossible to accomplish since about 70% of the NPCs in the game have the 'must find baby boy' dialogue somewhere and 90% of the player's dialogue is geared to that. Removing it will require reinventing the game and if you have to do that then what's the point in playing the game to begin with? It would be like Mass Effect and no Shepard, or The Witcher and no Geralt. How can that be accomplished when that is the game in it's entirety? FO4 has one character to play, the parent looking for the kid. It doesn't matter if players can make them look anyway they want, the fact remains. The only way to get away with linear protagonists is to make a good story with a good cast of NPCs to support it. FO4 doesn't do that. The player is pigeonholed into ONE ROLE with one option. ALL the main quest dialogue points to one result. It doesn't matter what the player says or how he says it; 'Sarcastic' has the same result as anything else other than just tabbing out of the conversation. It's even more restrictive than Skyrim and yet people are calling it an RPG. In ME3 there are character builds where the player can make their own Shepard with different skills and a different background. Depending on what you pick the choices you have later and options for gear and dialogue will be different. In TW3 the player is Geralt and practically everything you do and say will have ramifications later. The possibilities are too vast to cover; it's that in depth. Someone playing Geralt as a selfish prick will have a totally different experience than someone playing Geralt as a nice guy. In FO4, the player gets to pick the sex of their character and make a face for it. After that the RPG ends and the player has the exact same experience as someone else; side with a faction and get the same ending everyone else does.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 @ritualclarity My good friend, ritualclarity, I know I have a personal grudge on New Vegas. There's no denying that. And it is easily seen that I don't value that game as I should because it just doesn't meet my expectations. It happens with everyone who just doesn't like something and see's a change they don't like. I don't hate Skyrim for what story they told. I do not like certain things the way it plays out like I've mentioned in my first post here and I've also mentioned on other threads.No consequences and choices in their side quests like the guild you join won't stop me from playing the game. It may or may affect me to the point where I do or do not like the game like New Vegas, but Skyrim didn't have that much negative affect on me. Oblivion? I don't hate the game. I barely played over an hour of it. I got out of the dungeon after the king died, roamed the outskirts and I was omw up a hill where I saw an Imp in front of a cave and my game crashed and save got corrupted. I don't hate the game. In fact, I have not once ever judged the game for it's story. Nor Arena, a game that I have put quite a few hours in with no issues at all. I just stopped playing it because I never got familiar with the commands. And because it was very very old. Daggerfall and Morrowind I did install and launched it. It was too old for me, but I would eventually like to give those two a chance. I can't judge a game by how old it is. That's like judging a book by it's cover. It may have old pixelated graphics, but it probably has a much better story than Skyrim. And really a game is worth every penny if the story is compelling. But it's all subjective in the end because everyone does have different tastes, opinions and likes. And it's why I'm one of the minority who do not like New Vegas while most people do because it has a more RPG feel to them than Fallout 3. I cannot convince your just as much as you cannot convince me if neither one likes either game. My grudge is the product at hand. You buy a game that it's intention is to work right out of the box, right? So long as your computer specs meet the requirement and you are a computer whiz to know that if you want better stability, 32bit games are better installed outside of program files x86. Something that Bethesda doesn't suggest (as far as I know) in their instructions because the option is there for advanced users. People who know what their doing. So if I meet all those requirements and have installed the game in a drive or place where it's bound to give more stability, why should I have to face a product that just isn't working? And just for the record, Skyrim launched and worked fine. It was a matter of reaching the 30hour mark when my game was starting to get CTD, freezes and corrupt saves. Not having any mods installed. And if you tell me, well you need to install the unofficial patches, that's not a good enough excuse to get something to work that I bought that has the very latest official patch implemented. It being the final edition for all the sequels since TES Anthology is that. If I was computer illiterate/ignorant and bought a game that exceeds my specs then I would take my foot out of my mouth and walk away. I don't hate their games for their gameplay and story, I hate them because their just broken. And not just me, but for many people. I'm not judging anyone who likes these games. They have every right to like what they want, just as much as pre-order it or continue to buy it if they want. It's their choice. I personally feel that we deserve more respect after continuing to support their games and generate more revenue because of mods and extending the life span of their product than just a game to play for a week and put it away for many months to come.
vram1974 Posted December 24, 2015 Author Posted December 24, 2015 Still don't understand the mentality of buying a game at release, with the bugs, the price, and hype machine at full blow, you should know by now you're playing the sucker's part. When something is hyped so much the first thing you should do is be suspicious. I don't agree. Nobody got suckered into FO4. I think we all knew it would come with its share of positives and negatives. But FO4 certainly isn't groundbreaking and no amount of patches or DLC can change that.
jimmywon34 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 i personally won't be buying FO4 bethesda games have too many bugs, don't know if i'll even buy TES6 if and when it comes out until i read reviews and have proof that it is 100% or close to 100% bug free after all the skyrim bugs leading to me sometimes having to completely start the game over and failing horribly at trying to mod it, the modding that is the strong point of beth games doesn't really draw me in. i don't understand how a company can even sell a product that is known to be faulty anyways that crap should be illegal. companies need to be forced to sell products that work 100% of the time either have to wait to release it and fix all it's problems or don't release it at all. Someone mentioned earlier that it would take an incredible amount of effort and resources to make rpg's more in depth and would add alot of worker time and tons of scripts etc. and that is probably true but they can't even get an rpg right that doesn't have very many choices and consequences so if bethesda was to attempt to make an incredible game where choices actually mattered and outcomes were different i think they would fail miserably or it would take them a decade to get right.
Hamguy31 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Lost its edge? no. They took advice from EA by creating shitty games and and hyping it to hell and making a killing off the hype and forcing its slave modders to fix their shit. Holy shitballs, making a killing is right. Jesus fuck https://medium.com/steam-spy/preliminary-results-for-steam-sales-in-2015-43bb49a767bd#.mrv50ttgb They rape Witcher 3 despite being a consensus inferior product Total sale $58,116,392.32 Valves cut $17,434,917.696 :assuming 30% ------------------------------------ Bethesda $40,681,474.624 from steam alone
27X Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Bethesda is succesful, I'll give you that, but they're not the part of the BIG budget companies either. And it always makes me laugh how people are NEVER satisfied. Now we got people complaining that they focused too much on graphics, but before release everyone was bitching that the graphics weren't that good. Honestly FO4 is the only Fallout I could bear to play for more than 10 hours, just because of the colors. And I'm not that much of a graphics whore either, I just couldn't stand the eternal yellow or green. It's just that people tend to expect too much. If you're adding voice acting to make it feel like a real conversation, of course you need to cut the options a little, otherwise the game will NEVER be finished. Now would they have been able to do better? yes. No question about that. But at least mod tools are still around, and that's a godsend No, no and also no. Skyrim cost 100 million and Fallout cost 130 million. That is the rote definition of big budget, with an according marketing campaign to go with. Also Fallout is not an RPG. As stated from before, it's a relationship state simulator shooter with a crafting database built on top. It has less roleplay than ME3, as if that were even possible. Progression of ______ is not the sole determining factor of what a story based character progression game. The majority of people who cared about world building by character interaction no longer work at bethesda, and it shows. They're a small team and they don't really seem to want to get any bigger, they just hired of bunch of ex bEhavior interactive devs whom were working on Warhammer: eternal Crusade to basically make DLC for their games, so they don't have to. Anyone who's payed the remotest attention to the lore of both series has seen TES get more and more generic and FO completely drift from the core concept of what the world was supposed to be like in favor of mass market gaming cliches of the moment. It's not like these people are mouth breathing idiots whom have no clue what they wrought, they're just a game company that wants to make a specific kind of feeling game, and in order to sell as many copies as possible in the game genre they pretty much have to themselves, they've watered everything down until it's just enough to keep the player clicking on buttons in the vain hope what used to happen will; and for the new players, there's literally nothing to "fix", most players are perfectly fine having no story as long as they're satisfied with how the combat basically works and they feel accomplished in the game world. This is literally the same team (for the most part) for both games, so anyone expecting TES VI to be good on immersion and world crafting based against FO4's sales, well frankly, you're an idiot, because the writing is on the walls. Beth found a formula that works and that formula is: write some stuff that sounds ok to you, don't vet it with pro writers and make sure progression works in a satisfying manner, and hopefully tune combat up so people who suck at combat can still progress, and then ship it. If anything needs to be changed, the community can do it.
Night~Sky Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Someone has probably already said this at some point, I'll readily admit to not having read the whole thread, but the issue with Skyrim isn't that they focused too much on the graphics. It's that Skyrim was built for the Xbox 360 and ported to PC, so the PC version must abide the ridiculous limitations set forth by the 360's hardware, minus whatever modding can get around. Skyrim is still very moddable obviously but it has an unnecessarily low hard memory limit, which places a similarly unnecessary (and for PC, totally arbitrary) limit on how heavily you can modify Skyrim. Worse than that, however, is the mindset presented in the decision. Bethesda put console sales before the PC community; in a franchise built entirely on PC sales and community (and modding, since Morrowind at least, but most especially in Oblivion). There can't possibly have been a single person in Bethesda who did not understand doing that with Skyrim was bad idea, but they did it anyway in the pursuit of console sales. This went on to show through Fallout, with the entire New Vegas line, and Fallout 4 itself, however technically advanced, still ultimately and objectively designed for the console market. The fact Fallout 4 is even moddable at all is almost a miracle (remember how hard it was to mod Skyrim in the early days? Particularly how hard it was to get new animations into it and working?). My hope for TES6 is that Bethesda have remembered what really makes the franchise. It's not strictly the "RPG quality", in truth. It's a sum of the RPG quality of the base game and how accessibly and extensively moddable it is by the community. Second from that, I hope they've actually taken a step away from the formula they've fallen into. I'm getting just a little tired of the player character (minus the intervention of modding) just happening to be a prisoner who just happens to be fated to save the world. I also really hope they don't gimp the guilds again. Turning them into singular linear quest lines...ugh.
TheOzoneHole Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I'm going to toss my 5 concrete into this well of dreams. (To really mix up some metaphors.) Edit 2: (Yes, it is above edit 1.) I'm going to toss that long rant into a spoiler tag because, pictures being worth the generally accepted number of words, I found something that sums up, I feel, both the level of immersion and RPG elements in Fallout 4. See the spoiler tag at the very bottom of this post. 1. I started a new game of FO4 this afternoon. (Modded game, should be specific.) Most of the mods I have installed deal with either A. weapon and armor mods, or B. Settlement building extras. I went from level 3 (which I got to by starting the main quest (which the player is forced into)) to level 15 simply by building a huge platform above 1/3 of Sanctuary Hills. That platform had 1 main purpose. TO KEEP OUT THE FUCKING RAIN. And you know what? It FAILS completely. The rain still falls through a layer of roof, and a layer of floors. For all their graphical updates BGS still cannot take the fucking time to make rain not fall through a damn roof. Not only that, I'm building things...why does this give me XP? If I'm going to get XP for things with settlements, it should be things like growing more food, establishing a trade route (which usually doesn't work), stopping an attack (which is a quest and I get XP for that). Not for simply building concrete floors or more statues. And I've said this before, but leveling is now pretty much pointless. Gradual skill increases and perk choices made the player gradually feel like they are getting better. Many elements that were mainly for roleplaying (Cannibal I'm looking at you!) are not only perk locked, but locked behind stupid SPECIAL requirements. In FO3 and FONV, you could take Cannibal before level 10, in FONV I think it was at level 2. Now it has an Endurance requirement of 8. With Endurance 8 I don't need to eat a body for 25 hp. Purified water, Stimpacks and Mutt Chops will be enough to keep me going for the entire game. The loot balancing in FO4 is actually worse than Oblivion. Stimpacks in every health kit, on every 5th raider, and 7th Super Mutant. 1a. People have made comments about the player's "Hero Complex". I'll point out a few things here: 1. That is the point of most video games. Most people don't want to play a game where you are born, learn a trade (blacksmith, glassblower, farmer, whatever) do that for 15 years, get married, have 3 kids, watch as they all grow up, decided that their parents are useless dolts and leave and maybe write you a letter once a year until you finally get old and die. We already have a game like that, we call it LIFE. The graphics are photo-realistic but the reload time sucks balls. 2. GTA:SA went over the top on the Hero Complex and people complained. Our reward was GTA4; which, with the Hero Complex was removed, sucked. 2. On the subject of previous BGS games; Morrowind (which I freely admit that I view with rose colored glasses) did faction quests the best. The player had options, the player had requirements, and the player could say the heck to factions and quests and still have plenty to do. I tried that in a FO4 play through and after about 2 hours changed my mind because there was so little to do. What is worse, I was shocked that the game actually let me kill settlers. Yes, I went to Abernathy farm (near Sanctuary) and simply murdered everyone there and was surprised that the game let me do it. The fact that I was surprised that the game even allowed that, to me, is kind of sad. 3. As for unfinished and bullshit quests, I'll simply point the the final section of the Skyrim Thieves Guild quest line. (The spoiler is for manners only. If someone really cares that I'm spoiling Skyrim 4 years after it came out, I've got some bad news for you. Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker. ) I have to sell my soul (my Dragonborn soul, which gives me a free ticket to the Nord Afterlife whether I'm a Nord or not) to a Daedra simply to finish the quest line. FUCK. THAT. SHIT. One of the problems with having branching story lines, and non-programmers usually don't grok this, is just how much of a problem conditionals (ingame decisions) can create with program complexity. Let's say you have an initial choice. You're asked a question. There's 3 paths to choose from. Those three each have a result that results in another pair of choices. Then again, another set of choices each with two or three choices... you're already up to roughly 25 results that have to be coded, scripted, and tested thoroughly. When you have multiple classes, multiple subclasses, etc, it quickly adds up in geometric (not linear) progression to thousands or tens of thousands of logical paths to follow and test. That takes geometrical amounts of worker time, financial resources, computer resources, packaging resources, etc. This is added on top of whatever resources added to making the game work visually. Love it or hate it, people are still voting with their wallets, big graphics "WOW!" type games still make more money than something that looks more at home on a system from the 90s, so that's where financial resources are being spent. The other reason is, while a logical fallacy in story may be jarring in the RPG context, it generally doesn't compare to being completely unable to even play the game due to graphical corruption issues in the rendering engine(s). So, despite people complaining about decisions not really being influential with game outcomes - Dragon Age 2 as a rather in-your-face example - design decisions have to be made based on finite resources and the ultimate goal of the story line. Many games are designed from the ground up to only have one over arching outcome to set up the next sequel which we all supposed to gladly go out and buy! (Except I didn't bother with DA3, so it kinda failed there). It's just that some game houses are better at covering up you're really playing a linear or extremely decision limited story line than others. Thank you sir for that flashback to exam week. While grading those is more fun than giving a test, I wanted to strangle some of my students for NOT. USING. A. SWITCH STATEMENT! As far as fans and consumers deciding what it the best game is; in 1985 the top grossing movies were things like Back to the Future, Rambo and Rocky 4. Other movies released in 1985 were The Killing Fields, Amadeus and Ran (all Academy Award winners). Fans and consumers are sheep that follow hype and big names, not quality products. If dumb fans and revenue were the determining factors then FO4 would be game of the year; even though everyone knows the game is shit and it wouldn't deserve the award. Well said, sir. Edit: After that very long rant, I feel that I should post something fun related to FO4, so here you go. The FO4 Santa build by FudgeMuppet. https://youtu.be/BWmoxDJ9MEc
RitualClarity Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I always gave Bethesda the benefit of doubt and looked at their games as a venue to mod, that is until Skyrim. Wait what? No added animations? What? Two body meshes to deal with for outfits? Huh? No custom races without scripts to circumvent what's coded into the game? Then there was the game play itself and being railroaded into the main quest by other quests that had nothing to do with it. NOW there is FO4 where the meat of the game IS THE MAIN QUEST. There is no avoiding it unless you just wander around on a tiny map and shoot things without talking to any NPCs. I doubt mods will be fixing FO4 like in previous Bethesda titles. There isn't an RPG element to start with so adding one will be a serious pain. Alternate start mods will be next to impossible to accomplish since about 70% of the NPCs in the game have the 'must find baby boy' dialogue somewhere and 90% of the player's dialogue is geared to that. Removing it will require reinventing the game and if you have to do that then what's the point in playing the game to begin with? It would be like Mass Effect and no Shepard, or The Witcher and no Geralt. How can that be accomplished when that is the game in it's entirety? FO4 has one character to play, the parent looking for the kid. It doesn't matter if players can make them look anyway they want, the fact remains. The only way to get away with linear protagonists is to make a good story with a good cast of NPCs to support it. FO4 doesn't do that. The player is pigeonholed into ONE ROLE with one option. ALL the main quest dialogue points to one result. It doesn't matter what the player says or how he says it; 'Sarcastic' has the same result as anything else other than just tabbing out of the conversation. It's even more restrictive than Skyrim and yet people are calling it an RPG. In ME3 there are character builds where the player can make their own Shepard with different skills and a different background. Depending on what you pick the choices you have later and options for gear and dialogue will be different. In TW3 the player is Geralt and practically everything you do and say will have ramifications later. The possibilities are too vast to cover; it's that in depth. Someone playing Geralt as a selfish prick will have a totally different experience than someone playing Geralt as a nice guy. In FO4, the player gets to pick the sex of their character and make a face for it. After that the RPG ends and the player has the exact same experience as someone else; side with a faction and get the same ending everyone else does. I agree it missed thepoint on the RPG element. I really truly tried to see if it was just me or did it feel as if it was missing the "something" that the previous games had. For me it is. you make a great point about the level of complexity that is being added to the mod scene. Almost as if they don't want the game modded. Well more exactly modded beyond the limited tools they give us that is. @ritualclarity My good friend, ritualclarity, I know I have a personal grudge on New Vegas. There's no denying that. And it is easily seen that I don't value that game as I should because it just doesn't meet my expectations. It happens with everyone who just doesn't like something and see's a change they don't like. I don't hate Skyrim for what story they told. I do not like certain things the way it plays out like I've mentioned in my first post here and I've also mentioned on other threads.No consequences and choices in their side quests like the guild you join won't stop me from playing the game. It may or may affect me to the point where I do or do not like the game like New Vegas, but Skyrim didn't have that much negative affect on me. Oblivion? I don't hate the game. I barely played over an hour of it. I got out of the dungeon after the king died, roamed the outskirts and I was omw up a hill where I saw an Imp in front of a cave and my game crashed and save got corrupted. I don't hate the game. In fact, I have not once ever judged the game for it's story. Nor Arena, a game that I have put quite a few hours in with no issues at all. I just stopped playing it because I never got familiar with the commands. And because it was very very old. Daggerfall and Morrowind I did install and launched it. It was too old for me, but I would eventually like to give those two a chance. I can't judge a game by how old it is. That's like judging a book by it's cover. It may have old pixelated graphics, but it probably has a much better story than Skyrim. And really a game is worth every penny if the story is compelling. But it's all subjective in the end because everyone does have different tastes, opinions and likes. And it's why I'm one of the minority who do not like New Vegas while most people do because it has a more RPG feel to them than Fallout 3. I cannot convince your just as much as you cannot convince me if neither one likes either game. My grudge is the product at hand. You buy a game that it's intention is to work right out of the box, right? So long as your computer specs meet the requirement and you are a computer whiz to know that if you want better stability, 32bit games are better installed outside of program files x86. Something that Bethesda doesn't suggest (as far as I know) in their instructions because the option is there for advanced users. People who know what their doing. So if I meet all those requirements and have installed the game in a drive or place where it's bound to give more stability, why should I have to face a product that just isn't working? And just for the record, Skyrim launched and worked fine. It was a matter of reaching the 30hour mark when my game was starting to get CTD, freezes and corrupt saves. Not having any mods installed. And if you tell me, well you need to install the unofficial patches, that's not a good enough excuse to get something to work that I bought that has the very latest official patch implemented. It being the final edition for all the sequels since TES Anthology is that. If I was computer illiterate/ignorant and bought a game that exceeds my specs then I would take my foot out of my mouth and walk away. I don't hate their games for their gameplay and story, I hate them because their just broken. And not just me, but for many people. I'm not judging anyone who likes these games. They have every right to like what they want, just as much as pre-order it or continue to buy it if they want. It's their choice. I personally feel that we deserve more respect after continuing to support their games and generate more revenue because of mods and extending the life span of their product than just a game to play for a week and put it away for many months to come. I just want to be clear I hold now issues with the problems that you and others have faced. I was fortunate for some reason not to have these problems that others have and if some did crop up they usually wasn't so bad that it caused problems to a point where the game was unplayable. FNV did crash once in a while but only when I pushed it for several hours and really needed a break anyway.. lol. (thumb cramping up). This seems to be a very serious problem for the game considering all games have their share of the glitches and bugs however for Bethesda's games they seem to be really prevalent and persistent for many even when only playing the unmodded version of the game. I agree those that have these problems do have a right for expecting these issues to be addressed quickly and promptly and deserve a level of quality that makes the game playable (at least without mods). These problems are beyond not having an acceptable RPG element, or adding something here or removing something there. Not having the amount or depth of side quest etc. All of this is the design of the game. People will like it or not. and on this I agree. However many users having basic issues with playing the game (unmodded for that matter) with any level of reliability is not acceptable
Veladarius Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I have not played FO4 yet but from the sounds of it the game is more like Mass Effect and less of an actual rpg. As I see it one of the larger things limiting current rpg's is voice acting, it can be expensive and uses additional disk space. This has lead to boring and generic npc's, shallow storylines and developer imposed limits on the amount of dialogue they want to have in the game.
RitualClarity Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I have not played FO4 yet but from the sounds of it the game is more like Mass Effect and less of an actual rpg. As I see it one of the larger things limiting current rpg's is voice acting, it can be expensive and uses additional disk space. This has lead to boring and generic npc's, shallow storylines and developer imposed limits on the amount of dialogue they want to have in the game. It does have a Mass Effect feel for me. however the characters aren't as developed as I felt with Mass Effect. Sadly for me they fell more shallow. Mass Effect for me had rich detailed characters that I enjoyed the interactions with.
Kendo 2 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 With every release Bethesda takes away more and more RPG elements for the sake of streamlining and in-game widgets like games people can play on pipboys...while they're in a game that's obviously incomplete, rushed and not up to industry standards. To me, FO4 seems like a stopgap product using a well known and anticipated franchise for the sake of paying the bills or funding the main project Bethesda is working on. They had to have known the game was bad; they're the ones who made it. FO4 isn't a role playing game. It is a hybrid linear action/adventure/shooter. Bethesda doesn't know how to produce those types of games so FO4 fails; and the one thing they used to get somewhat right (rpgs) was sacrificed for whatever reason. FO4 is so bad I'm playing the goddamned Sims.
RitualClarity Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 They had to have known the game was bad; they're the ones who made it. Doubt it.. they were too busy circle jerking each other and not that it is released they are being "serviced" by adoring fans. Which is great.. I guess. I know someone in RL that loves this game. I asked why.. and it is loved for exactly the reason why most Fallout Fans hate the game. Unfortunately I believe Bethesda is getting feedback but not paying attention to ( or perhaps are) what groups are giving this feedback. To me, FO4 seems like a stopgap product using a well known and anticipated franchise for the sake of paying the bills or funding the main project Bethesda is working on. I believe they tried to mainstream this as well as the TES series to attract more users, this in turn diluted the RPG and other elements that many "old timers/fans" appreciated. Of course they only did this for more $$$ . It is a hybrid linear action/adventure/shooter. Bethesda doesn't know how to produce those types of games so FO4 fails Yep. They had great potential for this game. Sad they didn't focus more on the RPG elements or at least more on the game to refine the "hybrid linear action/adventure/shooter" game elements to help make it feel more like it wasn't so"Sacrificed" FO4 is so bad I'm playing the goddamned Sims. Dammmm that is really bad.. I haven't reached that depth yet...
loverslab987 Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 I stopped playing the game after about 100 hours, because it became boring and repetitive. The thing is, it's not a bad game, but a bad RPG as others already pointed out and the story / characters are seriously lacking. The FPS elements are rather good I found. Which is not too surpising considering they also own id Software (Doom looked really good during E3, looking forward to it). They also did a good job on the colors in the game, I like them a lot. I'll probably give it another try some time next year when I feel like there is nothing else to play. Other than that, Witcher 3 was way better. My personal GOTY. I wasn't interested in the first two games at all, but this one was top notch. I've played through the game twice (once on highest difficulty) during summer and the characters and story was very emotional and interesting. Loved it. And there are indeed real choices / consequences in this game. Yep, you could learn something from this small polish studio, Bethesda! Haven't played the big DLC yet, because I'm still saturated after 200 hours or so. Also CDPR's support is a million times better than Bethesda's was in the past and is now. We only got one ridiculous patch within 6 weeks ... fixing what? 10 bugs? And not even the most obvious ones. Are you serious Bethesda? Also there is no communication what so ever about future updates and what they are working on. I also played Starcraft 2 LotV until one week ago and finished it. Was pretty epic, but it's Blizzard after all. The parts about "the cycle" strongly reminded me of Mass Effect. Both Starcraft and Mass Effect are awesome trilogies altogether. Then I took a look at Assassin's Creed Syndicate which is suprisingly well made and I'm playing that now. Haven't played AC since Black Flag thanks to Ubi's yearly milking of the franchise and hardly evolving the concept to a better experience. But if you need another open world game and are fed up with FO4, I'd suggest trying out that. The story is rather mediocre, but it has its moments. I might even end up liking it better than FO4 and that is quite crazy considering I'm really not a fan of the series (though mainly because of Ubisoft's milking).
Darkening Demise Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 Modern Gaming; appealing towards Graphic Whores who will buy anything for $60 that play like shit because developers can just easily release a patch with online DRM bullshit today. Modern Gaming. FO4 was a generic shooter with open world concept; Far Cry. Too casual, no challenge, no depth, what 'RPG'?! Wait, there's an RPG in the game?! Oh you meant the genre of role playing....yeah that's dead now because people are too stupid and fapping to breast physics and 'next gen' graphics. Edit: Also remember this, Bethesda games, they're always heavily modded, and that's why they sell because of mods. Modding is what brings in the money for Bethesda so they don't have to do anything. They have millions around the world who make titty mods, followers, leveling overhauls, environmental mods, etc. so why should they even try? Exactly.
vram1974 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Posted December 27, 2015 I may have gone overboard with the Steam sale and bought: Dishonored Pillars of Eternity Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 Witcher 1, 2, 3 Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines I'm already 28 hours into Pillars of Eternity. It's a fantastic game. I could see surpassing my 114 hours in Fallout 4 pretty quickly.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted December 27, 2015 Posted December 27, 2015 GOG4Life. Anyways, games are streamlined due to cross platform. The whole purpose of paid mods by Bethesda made me come to the conclusion that they just want to opt out of supporting PC in the future. If paid mods became successful. Since I don't trust them because they are just another money grubbing corporation, I have no doubt they will attempt this again. They will try to favor the console gamers to mods it becomes a whole new mod trend. The benefit of Bethesda is that sex mods will no longer exists, Bethesda will gain profit out of this, and they can give the birdie to pc gamers and reign in their glory with full control of DRM. Only reason why we are tolerated is because we've given their games a pretty good reputation due to not only the amount of mods at one's disposal, but the insanely good mods for both TES and Fallout.
vram1974 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Posted December 27, 2015 What I don't understand is why Bethesda bothers with customizing the bodies at all if they're not going to put genuine effort into it, or worse, make the bodies hard to mod later. Their whole fat, thin, muscular idea seems to go along with the idea that bodies SHOULD be customized and yet they fall short of all that entails: breasts, hips, waist, ass... it requires a person with vision like Caliente to make it happen. That's cowardice. Either give gamers the full options or leave the lipstick off the pig.
Guest Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Beth has gone the way all big commercial companies go. To satisfy the mainstream casual player and not the hard-core RPG fans. They don't love their product like a child anymore. Instead, they only care about profit. I don't know if The Sims is more popular than RPGs, but Beth seems to think so. Blizzard did something similar with the introduction of a garrison in WoW but in their case it's more an addition on top of the other content and it fits better into an MMORPG.
Guest Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 What I don't understand is why Bethesda bothers with customizing the bodies at all if they're not going to put genuine effort into it, or worse, make the bodies hard to mod later. Their whole fat, thin, muscular idea seems to go along with the idea that bodies SHOULD be customized and yet they fall short of all that entails: breasts, hips, waist, ass... it requires a person with vision like Caliente to make it happen. That's cowardice. Either give gamers the full options or leave the lipstick off the pig. Beth has never been much for character design. If I was ED on Bethesda, I would employ a completely new design team and ask the talented modders out there to join. After all the good job they did, they deserve that chance. But Beth are probably old stophiles who don't care if the bodies are sexy or not.
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