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Something to consider: one of Delzaron'sstated aims behind the mod was Skyrim equivalent of TES4's Bravil Underground. I've always been a little disappointed that there's no way to joing the slavers guild direct rather than get enslaved first.

 

I know there's a dozen other things with higher priority than a new way into the mod, or expanding the slave training side of things, but if things ever start to settle down, it's something I'd love to see.

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On 2/16/2020 at 7:06 PM, Nymra said:

Any chance you could make arena fights and beeing shot when escaping defeat/naked dungeons/other rape mods compatible?

I always like the idea that you can really try to run away from Ibn, but I also remember that it fucked things up a lot when defeat mods fired, too.



I was wondering if Ibn could get its own system of escape prevention. Like arrows that will blackout you on first hit and teleport you to a rape chamber (group rape then released to slavery again). 

As for the arena fights: I barely lost them, but I wondered if they could work more reliable when no weapons or armor was used and the fight would be over by like 25/33% ish health to prevent defeat mods from firing. 

 

Also, then a "loser gets raped or cooked" might be integrated, too.  

 

I placed lot of triggers on the city exits. Player as slave is killed by guards if he reach one of these triggers.

 

Yep, could be fun. I planned a simple execution...

15 hours ago, DocClox said:

Something to consider: one of Delzaron'sstated aims behind the mod was Skyrim equivalent of TES4's Bravil Underground. I've always been a little disappointed that there's no way to joing the slavers guild direct rather than get enslaved first.

 

I know there's a dozen other things with higher priority than a new way into the mod, or expanding the slave training side of things, but if things ever start to settle down, it's something I'd love to see.

Yep, it was !

I liked very much Bravil underground.

 

TID was designed as a mix of :

- a city of falmers (Menzoberranzan !)

- braviul undergroun d

- slavery mod (and a more lore one : slavery is legal in Ibn, unlike Skyrim).

- an adaptation of a novel with an hidden god (lovecraft, Styx, dungeon and dragons...)

 

Yes, it was a very complex projexct, and my coding skills were lower at this time.

22 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here's my plan to fix a bunch of issues with Ibn...

 

Create new race.

Put falmer skin on XP32MSE skeleton using Outfit Studio.

Now have a Falmer that can play human sex animations and take part in dialogs.

This fix would allow Falmers to partake normally in combat defeat mods properly.

 

Being able to interact with all the "friendly" Falmers would allow them to make their brutal sex demands and so on.

 

That leaves the issue of fixing the escaped slave functionality to be compatible with combat defeat mods.

That's not trivial, as you have to decide what the desired outcome is.

Probably the defeat mod shouldn't be triggered - the slave should either be captured without health loss, or escape.

In practice, escape from Ibn is impossible. The only ways out are through multiple passages, heavily guarded by falmer warriors.

If outer guards pick up a slave, or even defeat a regular PC who hasn't entered Ibn via the normal enslavement channels, then some special extra handling is required.

A slave who runs away should probably be eaten.

A PC caught "invading" should simply be enslaved and start the enslavement quest, minus Frabbi.

That Frabbi is wired into that stops it being generally applicable as an SS outcome, game start, etc.

It could be fixed with a short, simple, prelude quest that links the PC with Frabbi for those entering without doing the usual investigation quests.

 

With the arena fights, fixing them will require considerable thought and effort, beyond simply making there BE a fight.

If SLS is knocking your health down to 60, and debuffs knock it to 40, and then you take one hit, that's it, fight over.

 

I can imagine some sort of area effect for the arena that reduces damage dealt, so the fights drag out a bit.

Among other things.

Sounds nice.

 

Again, I'm looking for help for redoing some mods.

In fact, except a justice mod and maube a "complex slavery " (slavery; mod wich also manage slavery legacy accros skyrim and npcs/follwoers auction as slaves to mod who can accept npc slaves (TID...)), I don't plan to make any more mod. I'm getting demotivated to work on skyrim... and I never amanged to make modded SSE working. I don't speak about conversion (I recruited Nomkaz for that, he already convertes some mods, by some testers are needed).

 

For Ravenous, I'll wait the new zaz 9.0 stuff, and recruit some modders. I'm too busy and sick to do all these mods alone.

 

TID.... the major blocking point is the city... I wish to rebuilt all of it.

It should contains two levels : lower ibn and upper ibn.

Lower ibn contains the common people, slaves... homes (wood cabans mostly, low ibn is a dirty and crowded place), the farms,the temple of Chaur Tegoth, the markets, the mines, the harbor, and inn, the arena, the brothels (the songs of Molag Bal, and Nathrezin mansion), the articifial forest (where the locals make grow wood and giant mushrooms for getting building materials).

Upper Ibn is made in dwemer structures, and it's here where lives all the wealthy citizens, nobles, and the queen. It contains the library (the mage tower), the houses of Azhra the undead, other nobles, the elite guards barracks, and of course, the queen tower, and maybe the high priest house).

 

Lower and upper ibn are separated in high, not in space : upper ibn parts are linked via bridges accros lower ibn parts... the sity structure is imbricated, it make the full concept difficult whitout drawing a plan... and the temple of chaur tegoth make a full mess (all the city is in a single small world).

 

Ibn is supposed to have maybe ore than 50 npcs, it make it a large city is term of games.

 

The more approchaing existing mod is Coldhaven.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/95509

 

I post some pics i stored for my idea... for lower ibn, a plan, upper ibn, the high priest, the whispering one... and other elements...

 

The mod story is also complex.

Ibn is a base a dwemer city and research facility.

One day, a creature from outside oiblivion appeared, and begin to spread mess, madness, and mutation : Chaur Tegoth (I like this name, and I use a chaurus to make it). It's not a daedroth, but a great ancient (a mix of Bokrug and Ghatanotoa). The dwemer imprisoned it in the temple (it's a magical prison, powered by high secured power plant).

Snow elves enslaved by the dwemers made a pact with the god...

 

When player enter in the city forst time, the situation is this :

- chaur tegoth is imprisoned, worshiped by a part of the locals. They gives him slaves to feed him.

- the whispering one is the best agent of Chaur Tegoth. It's like the King in yellow, with Chaur Tegoth as Hastur. She'll rule the city, using the player as tool for her master's plans.

- a small cult, leaded by the high priest, take care of the god. They are all mutated because of proximity with Tegoth.

- a vampiric snow elf elite rules the city.

- the pure falmers / ceyemers are the majority of the population : they were made based on falmers cross breeding with other elf races, with use of Chaur tegoth mutation powers. They are physicaly similar to snow elfs, but they are smaller, and more important, more evil. They can also have some limitations (Hashep, for exemple, is stupid).

- falmers also lives in the city, and submitted tribes who joined the city. They mostly serve as guards.

- the other peoples are slaves, former slaves, or people who found the city and lived here (most are criminals).

- Ibn is not a commercial place : only evil factions, like warlocks, smugglers, slaves, know the city. They trade slaves and goods for minerals and weapons.

- Ibn is divided into several nobles houses...

- a local crime system... (control player crime,s punish it by public punishement, even execution and selling remains to butchery, or eated by Tegoth).

 

About the ceyemers...

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72028

 

 

In the main quest line, player enter the city as slave, make his way to get a servant status, serve in the city as mercenary, participate to a plot to replace the queen by the whispering one, free the god, and help to establish an underground empire which will get hidden power on all cities in skyrim.

Yeah, player will play evil : it's good to be bad ?

Also the other options : player could escape by using a slaves rito for diversion, or play thorugh the mod and choose to bannish Tegoth from Nirn... of course, it will cost you...

 

As you see, very complex stuff, lot of content.... and I'm blocked by the city design. Maybe a rewrite of the scenario is needed, but I wish to keep the major elements (pure falmer city (i like the falmer bikini and whire skined cute elf girls ! The monstrous god, the crowned and dirty city (all skyrim vanilla city as far too shinny for me, even riften), slavery stuff.

 

Any help is welcomed : i can't do this alone... ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

20131217010938-c8057767-xl.jpg

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While it would potentially look nice, a vertically stacked city with a two or more layers will not perform well in the Skyrim rendering engine.

You could build it, but the poor occlusion and limited portal capabilities would mean you'd have to do a lot of work in that area during the build, and it would put some limits on how much stuff you could pack in before it overloaded.

 

The existing Ibn runs very smoothly, barring the Abandoned Animoculary, probably because it's mostly flat, and the density of geomtry and NPCs is modest.

 

It would be a shame to build something fantastical and new-looking but have it run like Whiterun Brothel Revamped.

 

 

A vertical city where you "think" you can see the upper part from the lower, and the lower from the upper, but can't get between them without going inside would allow one to just be a LOD proxy, but it would still be quite hard to do.

 

If I were building a setting like Ibn, I would make more use of interiors, make the upper city like some of the existing parts, and the lower city entirely out of linked interior cells, burrowed into cramped tunnels in the rock, rather than built of wood. Dark Arena sort of has this vibe already. The lower, NPC dense, city would be kept low-stress by breaking into different cells, and through simple portalization. The upper city would have few NPCs out in the open most times, and you'd still be going into buildings to do a lot of interactions.

 

My goal at the moment is just to play through TitD - as it is - and work out what needs to be done to make it so others can do the same without setstage.

That's really the limit of it.

 

I think it's a great shame the mod is almost entirely inaccessible to players who aren't prepared to spend hours in the CK, and complete a lot of quests via the console.

And there is an existing mod, and a lot of it works. The plot is clear enough.

 

If I can get it basically playable, plus a few quality of life improvements, like a proper selection of vendors that vend, integration with SLS "services", RND water and food, and other stuff that I happen to want... Those things can always be stripped back out for a no-frills version.

If I can get there ... then I'd think about cleaning up the dialog, which is often hard to follow... Then there would be a version of the mod to play, for people that want it.

 

Any new mod built beyond that would be another matter entirely. If there were such a project, it would need a smart design so it can be built in iterations with ongoing releases adding more to a playable core. Maybe there is a way to combine the new dream with the existing material, so the new version is an add-on/enhancement of the existing Ibn.

 

It could be a feature, like in CD... You start with Ibn like it is now, and it gets built into something else as time goes by and you complete quests.

 

For now, need to solve the problem of NPCs wandering off back into Skyrim. I think it's something to do with child-worlds. I was reading about how there are issues with things that share the same space in a parent and child world. Might be relevant.

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I kinda already tried that, and yes the occulsion thing is a pain.  But I did actually get it mostly working, I used a lot of blocking terrain to help disguise the limited visibility.  Unfortunately Del didn't like that version of Ibn, he didn't like the prison I built for the Chaur Tegoth and some other aspects  (I built a lake with a large dam on one side, cut an opening in the dam under a spill way / waterfall and put the prison under the lake with a glass roof so you could look up and see fish swimming by... but the prison, while under the lake was not water filled... which was a pain in the ass to get to work.  It was my idea of a "max security" prison).  That version had a "palace" hanging down from the cave ceiling, a multi leveled city with suspended connecting path ways as well as ground paths.  I was kinda proud of it but with the way I built the prison into it, there was no way to redo it to suit Del without starting over from scratch.

 

Long story short, you can either build it as an interior cell with very limited visibility and use either terrain or multiple cells to break things up  OR you can build it as its own world environment and when finished bake a MIPMAP view for it (the way Blackreach was done).

 

The pathing problem can be solved with way points to force the NPC to take the desired route.  As it is, it looks for what TESV thinks is the easiest route and that often ends up being on the surface rather than the intended tunnels.

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@ Delzaron

hi, please can you do something to deactivate the rubbles who blokes some entrance? for people like me who dont use the console (personally keyboard problem)

idk maybe a spell or like i see in another mod (skyrim undrground?) shoot 3 arrows in...

those rubbles are really frustrating for whos not suit the enslaved path

i was going to Ibn first time by FTD and that screw up my  TID normal start.... so now i continue like that...how i can lol

anyway im just in test mods mode hehehehe

THANKS

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On 2/18/2020 at 2:36 AM, EinarrTheRed said:

I may have some fresh ideas on the city if I can find some spare time to sketch them out.

Dont worry, I'm far too depressed to try doing something...

On 2/18/2020 at 10:04 AM, EinarrTheRed said:

I kinda already tried that, and yes the occulsion thing is a pain.  But I did actually get it mostly working, I used a lot of blocking terrain to help disguise the limited visibility.  Unfortunately Del didn't like that version of Ibn, he didn't like the prison I built for the Chaur Tegoth and some other aspects  (I built a lake with a large dam on one side, cut an opening in the dam under a spill way / waterfall and put the prison under the lake with a glass roof so you could look up and see fish swimming by... but the prison, while under the lake was not water filled... which was a pain in the ass to get to work.  It was my idea of a "max security" prison).  That version had a "palace" hanging down from the cave ceiling, a multi leveled city with suspended connecting path ways as well as ground paths.  I was kinda proud of it but with the way I built the prison into it, there was no way to redo it to suit Del without starting over from scratch.

 

Long story short, you can either build it as an interior cell with very limited visibility and use either terrain or multiple cells to break things up  OR you can build it as its own world environment and when finished bake a MIPMAP view for it (the way Blackreach was done).

 

The pathing problem can be solved with way points to force the NPC to take the desired route.  As it is, it looks for what TESV thinks is the easiest route and that often ends up being on the surface rather than the intended tunnels.

I'm not familar with skyrim engine limit. For me, skyrim is a great game for his CK, which allow ot of things.

Your city is great, but yes, I don't like it. Too dwemer, too clean for the dirty place Ibn should be.

 

Here an element of thinking for Chaur Tegoth... the idea is too restrin him in a cave, controled by some dweme structures, and maybe crystals (after all, a god need to be controlled by magic).

On 2/18/2020 at 12:13 PM, ovidius171 said:

@ Delzaron

hi, please can you do something to deactivate the rubbles who blokes some entrance? for people like me who dont use the console (personally keyboard problem)

idk maybe a spell or like i see in another mod (skyrim undrground?) shoot 3 arrows in...

those rubbles are really frustrating for whos not suit the enslaved path

i was going to Ibn first time by FTD and that screw up my  TID normal start.... so now i continue like that...how i can lol

anyway im just in test mods mode hehehehe

THANKS

rubbles ?

Where excalty ? It's a long timr i didn't played TID...

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27 minutes ago, Delzaron said:

Your city is great, but yes, I don't like it. Too dwemer, too clean for the dirty place Ibn should be.

 

The demo I built was just a rough layout as it would have been when the Dwemer originally built it.  If you think anyone is going to invest the time in building a fully detailed city, with no input from you, and then just hope you like it and that they aren't wasting their time... yeah... no.

 

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11 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

The demo I built was just a rough layout as it would have been when the Dwemer originally built it.  If you think anyone is going to invest the time in building a fully detailed city, with no input from you, and then just hope you like it and that they aren't wasting their time... yeah... no.

 

I know. What you done was incredible, in fact.

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I think I found a recurrent issue that may be impacting Delzaron's mods generally, and may be behind some players seeing issues with NPCs while others do not.

 

Simply put, Things in the Dark NPCs are AI templated off vanilla unique NPCs.

 

The result of this is that they pick up edits - by other mods, often popular Nexus mods - to the vanilla NPC; edits that are specifically targeted at that unique vanilla NPC, and which are not helpful in TitD.

 

By swapping all the NPCs to use templates unique to TitD, there is no way that another mod can come in and mess up the templates.

 

I think this has something to do with NPCs that decide to wander off into the upper-world for no reason, or NPCs who have a specific job to do and place to be in, but instead are drinking in the Happy Chaurus.

 

It's quite easy to fix... I think... Though being Skyrim, maybe the edits won't take.

 

 

In many cases, the NPCs don't have any boxes ticked for the template, but some do, so it's a bit of a scattershot.

 

I got my first shock when I discovered that Sybil the sloot slave is templated off ... Elisif the Fair ... one of the most edited characters in the game, closely following Nazeem I suspect.

Sybil doesn't have any boxes ticked, so this likely results only in the transference of some random Skyrim bugs to Sybil, but it set me looking at other NPCs, and they do have boxes ticked.

 

This is actually a good thing, because it might lead to some easy fixes.

 

I wonder if Deadly Pleasures has the same issue? I think it might.

 

 

I agree that waypointing will fix some of the wandering issues too, as it will stop NPCs pathing through the upper world to get between underworld locations.

 

 

On the topic of world vs interiors - this is why I would go for interiors over world, there would be little chance of NPCs picking exterior routes. Skyrim gets confused by pathing through child worlds, no question about it, but it understands interiors vs exteriors fairly well.

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11 hours ago, Delzaron said:

Your city is great, but yes, I don't like it. Too dwemer, too clean for the dirty place Ibn should be.

I had the thought of taking Dark Arena and making the NPCs into Ibn ones, to create the core of the servant area in Ibn - cramped, seedy, all the pleasures of the nobles but in a cheap, shabby form - a place where a careless servant can easily find herself in deep trouble, and a place where slaves are treated like meat.

 

On 2/18/2020 at 8:04 PM, EinarrTheRed said:

I kinda already tried that, and yes the occulsion thing is a pain.

Would love to see screenshots.

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12 hours ago, Delzaron said:

rubbles ?

Where excalty ? It's a long timr i didn't played TID...

well almost everywhere you put them hehehehe in alot of passages that you blck with rubbles or invisible gates mostly in dwemer ruins like animonculry hall

i tried to (re)find the path from nechuand zell to IBN or from blackreach to IBN and i find some passages blocked in yours dwemer ruins

i must go see them again if you want a kind of list of them

and also a way to start TID 'without console) in a normal way afther being enslaved there by FTD choice

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9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I think I found a recurrent issue that may be impacting Delzaron's mods generally, and may be behind some players seeing issues with NPCs while others do not.

 

Simply put, Things in the Dark NPCs are AI templated off vanilla unique NPCs.

 

The result of this is that they pick up edits - by other mods, often popular Nexus mods - to the vanilla NPC; edits that are specifically targeted at that unique vanilla NPC, and which are not helpful in TitD.

 

By swapping all the NPCs to use templates unique to TitD, there is no way that another mod can come in and mess up the templates.

 

I think this has something to do with NPCs that decide to wander off into the upper-world for no reason, or NPCs who have a specific job to do and place to be in, but instead are drinking in the Happy Chaurus.

 

It's quite easy to fix... I think... Though being Skyrim, maybe the edits won't take.

 

 

In many cases, the NPCs don't have any boxes ticked for the template, but some do, so it's a bit of a scattershot.

 

I got my first shock when I discovered that Sybil the sloot slave is templated off ... Elisif the Fair ... one of the most edited characters in the game, closely following Nazeem I suspect.

Sybil doesn't have any boxes ticked, so this likely results only in the transference of some random Skyrim bugs to Sybil, but it set me looking at other NPCs, and they do have boxes ticked.

 

This is actually a good thing, because it might lead to some easy fixes.

 

I wonder if Deadly Pleasures has the same issue? I think it might.

 

 

I agree that waypointing will fix some of the wandering issues too, as it will stop NPCs pathing through the upper world to get between underworld locations.

 

 

On the topic of world vs interiors - this is why I would go for interiors over world, there would be little chance of NPCs picking exterior routes. Skyrim gets confused by pathing through child worlds, no question about it, but it understands interiors vs exteriors fairly well.

Yes, I use templates to avoid generating a face meshe and texture for each character...

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8 hours ago, Delzaron said:

Yes, I use templates to avoid generating a face meshe and texture for each character...

AI Templates have nothing to do with appearance templates:

1102571167_AITemplate.png.b8ffc2254a6217ab25c52b7efa486f07.png

 

But either way, simply using the template (appearance or AI) instead of copying it into your mod as its own template, is disaster prone.

 

Nexus-style gameplay and overhaul mods trample all over those templates, with consequences you cannot control.

It exposes your mod to breakages that are easily avoided.

 

This is likely why AI Overhaul is getting its hands on some of your NPCs and consistently breaking them; why vital NPCs from Deadly Pleasures simply wander off the spot they're support to be at (and where their quest objective is set to) or do not travel when they are supposed to travel, because instead they have gone to the inn to get drunk or are sheltering from the rain... And that's just one mod that can change AI, there are many.

 

Unwanted appearance changes are likely not going to break any quests, but AI changes are another matter.

 

As I mentioned before, in most cases the data inherited is theoretically limited (few boxes are ticked), but I don't really trust Bethesda to honor that properly.

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:13 PM, Delzaron said:

 

Also the other options : player could escape by using a slaves rito for diversion, or play thorugh the mod and choose to bannish Tegoth from Nirn... of course, it will cost you...

 

 

As one who likes to play the good guy, I chose not to take the oath. I improvised, left the city, and came back to kill Tegoth and all the other baddies. Unfortunately, I never recovered my gear. Personally, I'd be pleased as could be if, after refusing to take the oath, there was a short denouement quest resulting in what I just described above, plus recovering my gear. Regardless, that you managed such a mammoth project, and other big quests mods too, is most impressive. Big time kudos, Delzaron.

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On 2/25/2020 at 7:08 AM, wren888 said:

As one who likes to play the good guy, I chose not to take the oath. I improvised, left the city, and came back to kill Tegoth and all the other baddies. Unfortunately, I never recovered my gear. Personally, I'd be pleased as could be if, after refusing to take the oath, there was a short denouement quest resulting in what I just described above, plus recovering my gear. Regardless, that you managed such a mammoth project, and other big quests mods too, is most impressive. Big time kudos, Delzaron.

You can recover it if you agree to become a servant.

If you still wish to recover it, there is a chest in the slave master home, where I stored it.

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5 hours ago, Delzaron said:

You can recover it if you agree to become a servant.

If you still wish to recover it, there is a chest in the slave master home, where I stored it.

This is good news. Thanks, Delzaron. I'll play your mod again soon. Provided . . . uh, becoming a servant is before they change you into a falmer, right? Personally, I find the idea of becoming a falmer disagreeable.

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On 2/27/2020 at 12:36 AM, wren888 said:

This is good news. Thanks, Delzaron. I'll play your mod again soon. Provided . . . uh, becoming a servant is before they change you into a falmer, right? Personally, I find the idea of becoming a falmer disagreeable.

You can choose to not become a falmer. You'll stay as you like (I'm siure you pass a long time to polish your character creation :) )

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5 hours ago, Delzaron said:

You can choose to not become a falmer. You'll stay as you like (I'm siure you pass a long time to polish your character creation :) )

Yes, that's correct. I enjoy my character as she appears now (see photo at left). Thanks, Delzaron, for all your mods.

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@Delzaron

I'm at a point where I am going to stop tinkering with TitD for a while.

 

Is there any problem with uploading my altered version?

I expect to do some more updates later.

 

It would not be "complete" - it's some script patches and an ESP - players would still need to install the original.

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I believe that for locations, explicit map-markers are needed, and are rarely present.

 

For NPCs...

I'm still trying to work out why some NPCs do not get a map marker and others do.

 

I think it may be that if the NPC is not in the same world as the player, or in an interior connected to it, when the objective is set, it doesn't work.

 

In most cases, the NPCs shouldn't have wandered out of the Ibn world in the first place.

In most cases they needed teleporting to a sensible location before setting them as an objective.

In some other cases, a quest is trying to set an objective on an NPC who is supposed to be in a different world, and it won't work.

 

Those probably also need an explicit map-marker, as already suggested by others.

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On 3/7/2020 at 6:25 AM, Lupine00 said:

@Delzaron

I'm at a point where I am going to stop tinkering with TitD for a while.

 

Is there any problem with uploading my altered version?

I expect to do some more updates later.

 

It would not be "complete" - it's some script patches and an ESP - players would still need to install the original.

altered version ? I simply miss the stuff, that's all.

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