Prison Overhaul Patched (LE)

[Punga]

SS = Screen Shot, ak. screenie?

 

If you set the min = 0, I imagine it could return 0.

 

FWIW?

[Inte]

Yes, what @Punga said.

[Shadowman1111]

dos any one know if the gaurds bring food and water as i am use Ineed ? 

[swmas]

dos any one know if the gaurds bring food and water as i am use Ineed ? 

 

Yes they do, it's like a five star hotel there, they even bring blood if you are a vampire. It's all configurable through MCM.

[Inte]

[DonQuiWho]

SS = Screen Shot, ak. screenie?

 

If you set the min = 0, I imagine it could return 0.

 

FWIW?

 

Thanks

 

The query on the random number was simply because some generators state that for a random number (), the result is a number between 0 and 1, but some say the result is going to be greater than or equal to zero and less than 1.  Wasn't sure what the function used here did. 

 

[DonQuiWho]

@ Inte

Apologies for length, but this was something I got to thinking about when trying to work out why may game stalled on that location scan.

 

Does POP still have any potential conflicts with other mods where it might just break their quests?  ie where the PC, at the time of the POP arrest, may be wearing quest related DDi devices which, on being removed by POP breaks those quests?  The MCM still implies that it might be, and if the tech reason is too difficult to fix, I was wondering if that could be sorted by using a fairly simple gameplay variant?

If you can scan a whole location, pretty well instantly, on arrest, I presume it's pretty much of a a doddle to check if the arrest target is wearing DD items that have the 'other active quest' keyword.  (think I remember seeing it called block_generic, or something similar, but I'm sure you'll know!)

If the PC is in that state, why not just write in a short arrest 'DEFERRAL'?  

Something Like

 

===================

On guard conversation/POBH arrival, scan PC and followers to recognise if PC or follower is 'on quest'
; ie is wearing quest related DD item

 

IF PC is wearing quest item DDs

Guard/PO BountyHunter states (something like)

'I see that you are already being punished, so this time, be on your way.  Why should you be allowed to get off lightly by us helping you to avoid that?  But you will also pay for your crimes......later!"

;ie arrest deferred because of conflicting quest.  Guard/BH defers arrest, pointing out that you shouldn't get off lightly when you can have two punishments rather than one!

OR

IF PC has no quest specific gear but follower does

 

Guard/PO BountyHunter states (something like)

 "I could send you to jail now, but your follower (possibly follower name if being really clever?) is already under punishment.  Do you want them (follower name?) to serve that first, before they suffer in the cells with you!?"
;ie player gets the option to defer the arrest too, where the follower has qualifying DDs (that may not be necessary if followers couldn't have quest locked DDs but I don't know if they can or not - this just gives a chance to the player, at their own risk, to 'tell' the game what is best, without POP needing to do all sorst of weird tech checks)

 

Start Deferral

Store Relevant Deferral Info

;IE Record PC id, hold of aborted arrest, and level of bounty, for later checks (OK, I know that POP already knows which character is the PC)  

 

Add function to XPOP scanner's periodic check to scan PC and follower to see if still wearing quest related DDs
; ie waiting until non quest conflicting arrest possible - no quest locked DDs, with maybe a bit of randomness thrown in so that the deferred arrest doesn't happen immediately a DD item quest finishes - needs to be some uncertainty to make it interesting!

 

 

WHEN PC and follower are 'quest DD free', POP zaps them, to relevant hold jail, reducing the then current bounty for that hold by the amount due when arrest deferred
; ie the PC and follower experience deferred arrest, with NO conflict with quest DDs possible

 

For POP's Arrest Zapping, don't use a 'scene' (other than maybe for POBountyHunters?).  Just do an out 'of the blue' 'ninja kidnap', within a number of possible parameters, selecting from, say, egs;

 

 

Assuming daytime is set at say, 7am to 7pm, nighttime then being 7pm to 7am:

 

OPTION 1:

 

ON

Deferred guard arrest, PC awake, PC now clear of quest DD items, Daytime outdoors, daytime indoors if BH can follow you indoors is 'true', nighttime indoors if BH can follow you indoors is 'true'
THEN
Simple, straight 'Fade to Black' on screen with text something like "The bag thrust over your head is full of damp cloths.  You struggle with your attacker but the fumes are overcoming you quickly.  All goes black as you sink to the ground.......".  Simple transition from the black of sleep to a 'Fade to light' at the Jail Master, starting at the 'Here's another one' scene with a text intro like "You're not sure how you got here but you've been hauled off to jail!"

CONTINUE POP as usual

 

OPTION 2:

 

ON

Deferred guard arrest, PC sleeping, PC now clear of quest DD items, anyplace, anytime
THEN
Simple transition from the black of sleep to a 'Fade to light' at the Jail Master, starting at the 'Here's another one' scene with a text intro like "You're not sure how you got here but you've been hauled off to jail!"

CONTINUE POP as usual

 

OPTION 2:

 

ON

Deferred POPBH arrest, PC awake or asleep, PC now clear of quest DD items, anytime, anyplace
THEN
Go straight to the Ninja POPBH arrest, ie the one which the PC cannot refuse (at its already set allowed time and places)

CONTINUE POP as usual

 

================

 

If you could add that sort of facility, the overall main outcome should be that the PC would be able to finish all DD based quests without them failing, and POP would then still get its bite at the PC's cherry. 

 

If the player has set for POBHs not to follow indoors, the above logic would even also provide a bit more gameplay management, allowing the PC to further 'hide' from their deferred incarceration by travelling outdoors safely at night only, whilst having to stay indoors during daytime hours    

OK, I'm sure there will be other issues I might not missed, and other considerations.... egs

 

- I realise that you could get two or three deferred arrests.  For any one hold, simplest option would be to use the last one, which would mean that the deferred arrest would use up the largest bounty due at time of arrest.  If there are two or more deferred arrests, POBountyHunters deferrals could take precedence over guard arrests, and for other holds just use the earliest first...and on release the PC might then get arrested almost immediately for the next     
- there will be others who only use POP so none of this may matter much to them
- people who want to play like this would probably be best to leave the random bounties 'off', or unstarted

 

.....and so on

 

BUT, the bottom line question is, would something like this get over the DD quest item problem in a fairly straightforward way, without a huge rewrite of existing procedures and without breaking POP or diminishing its usefulness? - as well as perhaps maybe even adding a bit to the mods overall gameplay potential too?
 

 

Kind regards

And as constructively as ever...

[Inte]

I've already discussed this before and among the multitude of issues involved I'll mention one once again.

 

Game play immersiveness - You tell me which of these two scenarios offers a more immersive game play.

 

  The guard sees a wanted criminal, runs up to her just to discover that she is wearing some 'quest' items.

1. Upon seeing this the guard says, "Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, I obviously can't arrest you right now, ... um ... why don't you just give me a call (send a courier) when you are ready to be arrested and humiliated to one inch of your death ... meanwhile, since you are free to go ... go ahead and kill some town folk, because it is obvious you are being 'punished' already, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it." The guard then reluctantly allows the criminal to walk away, while watching her kill Nazeem thinking, "I really hope she calls me once those 'quest' restraints have been removed and she hasn't killed the jarl yet".
2. The guard says, "We've been looking for you criminal. You don't get to kill Nazeem in a dark alley all by yourself, ... that should have been a main plaza event for everyone's benefit. Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, if you think you can use those as 'a license to kill' you've got another thing coming. Don't worry you'll get them back after you pay for your crimes." The guard then proceeds to rightfully humiliate and then to arrest the criminal. i.e. the way POP works now.

 

[DonQuiWho]

 

I've already discussed this before and among the multitude of issues involved I'll mention one once again.

 

Game play immersiveness - You tell me which of these two scenarios offers a more immersive game play.

 

  The guard sees a wanted criminal, runs up to her just to discover that she is wearing some 'quest' items.

1. Upon seeing this the guard says, "Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, I obviously can't arrest you right now, ... um ... why don't you just give me a call (send a courier) when you are ready to be arrested and humiliated to one inch of your death ... meanwhile, since you are free to go ... go ahead and kill some town folk, because it is obvious you are being 'punished' already, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it." The guard then reluctantly allows the criminal to walk away, while watching her kill Nazeem thinking, "I really hope she calls me once those 'quest' restraints have been removed and she hasn't killed the jarl yet".
2. The guard says, "We've been looking for you criminal. You don't get to kill Nazeem in a dark alley all by yourself, ... that should have been a main plaza event for everyone's benefit. Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, if you think you can use those as 'a license to kill' you've got another thing coming. Don't worry you'll get them back after you pay for your crimes." The guard then proceeds to rightfully humiliate and then to arrest the criminal. i.e. the way POP works now.

 

 

Obviously the second.

 

So, can you make POP work like that with the rest of the mods on the site that do use DD items in their quests and which, almost certainly, actually make up the greater party of most people's gameplay?  I've no real doubt that you probably could if you wanted to.  You certainly don't seem to lack the skills 

 

I'll say 'Please, pretty, please' too, if you need me to...  

 

 

[Inte]

I don't understand, POP already does the second.

[DonQuiWho]

I don't understand, POP already does the second.

 

I honestly don't get what you mean, either 

 

My understanding was that if one sets POP's MCM to take locked DD restraints off the PC on their arrest, including other mods' quest related DD restraints, and then use the POP restraints on the PC instead, that may well break the other mods' quests, ie those of the mod which put those locked DD restraints on the PC before the arrest.

 

Sure, your MCM says that one can, on arrest, opt to leave locked DD restraints (from other mods) on the PC.  But the notes also say that doing that will certainly break POP. 

 

So, while you indeed can either take other mods' pre equipped quest related DDs off before POP's arrest, or leave them on, neither of those options is of much help if whichever you choose is actually going to screw up the player's game, is it?

 

Or am I really missing something somewhere?

 

NINJA NINJA EDIT: 

 

And look, I'm not complaining AT ALL!  I couldn't do what you have done, and what's there in POP is really pretty well magnificent as it stands.  If it doesn't or, more importantly, can't be made to sit too well with others' mods, don't worry your head about it.  We all realise that the base mod you are working with is quite old, almost antediuvian, and very complex, so not at all easy to adjust. 

 

Whatever, this is Skyrim, and we mere mortal users are probably all more than grateful for the magic you and others do, and if sometimes the ingredients aren't there for you to be able to create the next batch of potions that we might wish to have, well, so be it.  We all can live with that, can't we? 

 

 

 

 

 

[bicobus]

 

I've already discussed this before and among the multitude of issues involved I'll mention one once again.

 

Game play immersiveness - You tell me which of these two scenarios offers a more immersive game play.

 

  The guard sees a wanted criminal, runs up to her just to discover that she is wearing some 'quest' items.

1. Upon seeing this the guard says, "Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, I obviously can't arrest you right now, ... um ... why don't you just give me a call (send a courier) when you are ready to be arrested and humiliated to one inch of your death ... meanwhile, since you are free to go ... go ahead and kill some town folk, because it is obvious you are being 'punished' already, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it." The guard then reluctantly allows the criminal to walk away, while watching her kill Nazeem thinking, "I really hope she calls me once those 'quest' restraints have been removed and she hasn't killed the jarl yet".
2. The guard says, "We've been looking for you criminal. You don't get to kill Nazeem in a dark alley all by yourself, ... that should have been a main plaza event for everyone's benefit. Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, if you think you can use those as 'a license to kill' you've got another thing coming. Don't worry you'll get them back after you pay for your crimes." The guard then proceeds to rightfully humiliate and then to arrest the criminal. i.e. the way POP works now.

 

 

You could have a scenario where you don't actually undress the player or play with DDe items. And instead of being sexed, the player gets flogged. (that'll teach you to do quests, criminal scum!). Or I dunno, spend the night on a torture device which should put some debuff on the player.

 

The issue isn't the arrest but what you do with the "quest" items.

[DonQuiWho]

 

 

I've already discussed this before and among the multitude of issues involved I'll mention one once again.

 

Game play immersiveness - You tell me which of these two scenarios offers a more immersive game play.

 

  The guard sees a wanted criminal, runs up to her just to discover that she is wearing some 'quest' items.

1. Upon seeing this the guard says, "Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, I obviously can't arrest you right now, ... um ... why don't you just give me a call (send a courier) when you are ready to be arrested and humiliated to one inch of your death ... meanwhile, since you are free to go ... go ahead and kill some town folk, because it is obvious you are being 'punished' already, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it." The guard then reluctantly allows the criminal to walk away, while watching her kill Nazeem thinking, "I really hope she calls me once those 'quest' restraints have been removed and she hasn't killed the jarl yet".
2. The guard says, "We've been looking for you criminal. You don't get to kill Nazeem in a dark alley all by yourself, ... that should have been a main plaza event for everyone's benefit. Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, if you think you can use those as 'a license to kill' you've got another thing coming. Don't worry you'll get them back after you pay for your crimes." The guard then proceeds to rightfully humiliate and then to arrest the criminal. i.e. the way POP works now.

 

 

You could have a scenario where you don't actually undress the player or play with DDe items. And instead of being sexed, the player gets flogged. (that'll teach you to do quests, criminal scum!). Or I dunno, spend the night on a torture device which should put some debuff on the player.

 

The issue isn't the arrest but what you do with the "quest" items.

 

 

Very succinctly put! And not a bad alternative at all!  

 

But right now, and with no offence intended to you, and I hope none is taken, while your personal 'tone' is OK, probably the most important point that we can all make is that Inte understands that we're really really trying to be constructive! 

 

And that we realise that if it can't be done, that's OK, and we can live with that 

 

 

 

 

[Inte]

Ok, here is the lowdown on POP MCM option "Remove Locked Devious Devices".

 

Checked - will remove all devious devices (yes this includes the 'quest' ones) when jailed, and store them. These removed devices will be locked back on the PC on release.

Advantages - No leftover devices to break POP animations and/or gameplay immersion.

Disadvantages - May break some mods. I know it does NOT break CD. I did not test DCL, but since it is/should pause events while in jail, it should not break its quests unless it checks OnUnequipped or similar events, IDK.

   

Un-checked - will remove only non-locked i.e. 'non-quest' devious devices on arrest and locks whatever it removed back, on release.

Advantages - will not break other mods.  

Disadvantages - it will most definitely break POP if animation restricting devices are left, i.e. armbinder, belt, etc.

[Inte]

 

 

I've already discussed this before and among the multitude of issues involved I'll mention one once again.

 

Game play immersiveness - You tell me which of these two scenarios offers a more immersive game play.

 

  The guard sees a wanted criminal, runs up to her just to discover that she is wearing some 'quest' items.

1. Upon seeing this the guard says, "Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, I obviously can't arrest you right now, ... um ... why don't you just give me a call (send a courier) when you are ready to be arrested and humiliated to one inch of your death ... meanwhile, since you are free to go ... go ahead and kill some town folk, because it is obvious you are being 'punished' already, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it." The guard then reluctantly allows the criminal to walk away, while watching her kill Nazeem thinking, "I really hope she calls me once those 'quest' restraints have been removed and she hasn't killed the jarl yet".
2. The guard says, "We've been looking for you criminal. You don't get to kill Nazeem in a dark alley all by yourself, ... that should have been a main plaza event for everyone's benefit. Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, if you think you can use those as 'a license to kill' you've got another thing coming. Don't worry you'll get them back after you pay for your crimes." The guard then proceeds to rightfully humiliate and then to arrest the criminal. i.e. the way POP works now.

 

 

You could have a scenario where you don't actually undress the player or play with DDe items. And instead of being sexed, the player gets flogged. (that'll teach you to do quests, criminal scum!). Or I dunno, spend the night on a torture device which should put some debuff on the player.

 

The issue isn't the arrest but what you do with the "quest" items.

 

 

The issue isn't the PC doing quests either, the issue is indeed what to do with those 'quest' items, what to do ... what to do. 

 

@donkeywho's suggestion was to postpone the arrest when the PC is found wearing them. I tried to illustrate, that will break immersion.  

 

Your suggestion of flogging as the only punishment available in that case, will not work either. Players already say that PO is repetitive even with all the different punishments available, now take all of them out and leave just the whipping ... no.

 

[Slorm]

I really don't see that there's a problem here.

 

I keep the "Remove Locked Devices" unchecked and it all works fine, though the Jailer has a bad habit of re-equipping the DCUR Slave Collar if it gets removed while in prison if the conditions are satisfied. Again not a problem, just set it to 1 sex act (no keys) and it will remove itself.

 

I suppose the only other way to do it would be like running POP without DDE so the items are hidden but are still there, but it seems a lot of work for a non issue.

[bicobus]

 

 

 

I've already discussed this before and among the multitude of issues involved I'll mention one once again.

 

Game play immersiveness - You tell me which of these two scenarios offers a more immersive game play.

 

  The guard sees a wanted criminal, runs up to her just to discover that she is wearing some 'quest' items.

1. Upon seeing this the guard says, "Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, I obviously can't arrest you right now, ... um ... why don't you just give me a call (send a courier) when you are ready to be arrested and humiliated to one inch of your death ... meanwhile, since you are free to go ... go ahead and kill some town folk, because it is obvious you are being 'punished' already, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it." The guard then reluctantly allows the criminal to walk away, while watching her kill Nazeem thinking, "I really hope she calls me once those 'quest' restraints have been removed and she hasn't killed the jarl yet".
2. The guard says, "We've been looking for you criminal. You don't get to kill Nazeem in a dark alley all by yourself, ... that should have been a main plaza event for everyone's benefit. Oh, I see you are wearing some 'quest' items there, if you think you can use those as 'a license to kill' you've got another thing coming. Don't worry you'll get them back after you pay for your crimes." The guard then proceeds to rightfully humiliate and then to arrest the criminal. i.e. the way POP works now.

 

 

You could have a scenario where you don't actually undress the player or play with DDe items. And instead of being sexed, the player gets flogged. (that'll teach you to do quests, criminal scum!). Or I dunno, spend the night on a torture device which should put some debuff on the player.

 

The issue isn't the arrest but what you do with the "quest" items.

 

 

The issue isn't the PC doing quests either, the issue is indeed what to do with those 'quest' items, what to do ... what to do. 

 

@donkeywho's suggestion was to postpone the arrest when the PC is found wearing them. I tried to illustrate, that will break immersion.  

 

Your suggestion of flogging as the only punishment available in that case, will not work either. Players already say that PO is repetitive even with all the different punishments available, now take all of them out and leave just the whipping ... no.

 

 

 

Well, flogging is just but one example. The base idea is, in case of stupid "quest" item already equipped, to shift the punishment away from sexual abuse. You remove the inventory except those items and you can still parade the player around, flog the player publicly or other humiliation scenarios. And they don't have to be exclusive to a restricted prisoner either. I understand that you need to be a bit of a sadist to think of proper humiliation scenarios, which is why I take my ideas from crazy hentai books.

 

That being said, have you ever considered integrating the heretical ressources into POP? They look gorgeous and would probably fit the major crimes punishments better than what is actually implemented. The prisoner would get into those babies at the time of the arrest, by the jailer, then thoughtfully abused by whatever means.

[Inte]

Those do look medevil indeed, but I rather not add another dependency.

[akungfustudent]

So Im playing with PO, POP and DA, and Defeat installed. If i suffer a defeat and its consequences at the hands of guards, i am then teleported directly to jail in a clothed, vanilla fashion. If i surrender or submit to guard I am treated in POP fashion.

 

Is there a conflict perhaps? I feel like this may have been addressed earlier but I looked through the thread and cant find it ..

[Inte]

Not sure if Defeat has a scenario for guards defeating the PC, if it does you might wanna disable it. Also re-register events in DA and set PO chance very high.

[bicobus]

Those do look medevil indeed, but I rather not add another dependency.

 

Forgive me for asking, as I am quite ignorant in what can actually be done in mods, but can't a mod have "soft" dependencies? Can't POP use the items from the heretical resources if they exists, otherwise use the items from DDe as a fallback? Or simply let DDe to decide which devices to put on and use DDe to check if those resources are installed.

 

Actually, DDe could be great to hoard all the devious device items.

[lkl]

For the Prison Outfit, is there a possibility you could add a "Clothing Only" that doesn't come with a footwraps. I suggested this because I noticed that there is a "Shoes Only" and since the footwraps are kind of ugly, going barefoot with the clothing is a much better choice sometimes.

 

Other issues I had I noticed are that when my sentence is up, the Jailer never comes to release me.

I wasn't sure if this was intentional or not but when I escaped, all of my gear has been returned.

 

[Inte]

 

Those do look medevil indeed, but I rather not add another dependency.

 

Forgive me for asking, as I am quite ignorant in what can actually be done in mods, but can't a mod have "soft" dependencies? Can't POP use the items from the heretical resources if they exists, otherwise use the items from DDe as a fallback? Or simply let DDe to decide which devices to put on and use DDe to check if those resources are installed.

 

Actually, DDe could be great to hoard all the devious device items.

 

 

Never tried HR, but it is my understanding that those devices are just a modders resource and as such they would need some scripting to prevent their removal once equipped. This eliminates the possibility for HR to be added as a soft requirement. This leaves 2 ways to make it work,

1. Include the assets from HR in DDe - I do not have permission for that, and prohibits it. But even if it was allowed, it is not the way to go, because I would have to update and or modify DDe with every HR update. So that's out.
2. Add HR as a requirement.

[Inte]

For the Prison Outfit, is there a possibility you could add a "Clothing Only" that doesn't come with a footwraps. I suggested this because I noticed that there is a "Shoes Only" and since the footwraps are kind of ugly, going barefoot with the clothing is a much better choice sometimes.

You could always remove the foot wraps, they are not locked on.

 

Other issues I had I noticed are that when my sentence is up, the Jailer never comes to release me.

 

In which jail has that happened?

 

I wasn't sure if this was intentional or not but when I escaped, all of my gear has been returned.

Already fixed in POP 8 umm ... m, yes POP 8m.

 

BTW, how did you escape?

[bicobus]

 

 

Those do look medevil indeed, but I rather not add another dependency.

 

Forgive me for asking, as I am quite ignorant in what can actually be done in mods, but can't a mod have "soft" dependencies? Can't POP use the items from the heretical resources if they exists, otherwise use the items from DDe as a fallback? Or simply let DDe to decide which devices to put on and use DDe to check if those resources are installed.

 

Actually, DDe could be great to hoard all the devious device items.

 

 

Never tried HR, but it is my understanding that those devices are just a modders resource and as such they would need some scripting to prevent their removal once equipped. This eliminates the possibility for HR to be added as a soft requirement. This leaves 2 ways to make it work,

1. Include the assets from HR in DDe - I do not have permission for that, and prohibits it. But even if it was allowed, it is not the way to go, because I would have to update and or modify DDe with every HR update. So that's out.
2. Add HR as a requirement.

 

 

Well, that sucks. I find it somewhat weird when resources mods restrict their usability. As they are merely addons on content.

 

I looked into the mod archive and there is only a ESM and 2 scripts. The scripts seems to govern how the devices should behave on the player (a chain and a sound script). At first glance it seems to be a really well made resource mod. I wish could consider giving an exception for POP or even consider getting into mainstream DDi.

 

I mean, what's the point in creating a resource mod if nobody is using it?