SexLab Solutions 5.0.7 (01-December-2017)

[WraithSlayer]

What armor fixes does USKP do that are so disagreeable? As far as I know, it's basically just fixing stuff that was clearly incorrect. (such as armor pieces not being considered part of the set they're from, etc)

[Sacremas]

Exactly, I disagree with some of the changes (they make changes to the color of some skins and the like, which makes TES5Edit flag it red when you use a NPC overhauler, they should leave all that to something like a Skyrim Redesigned mod), but armor and weapons are largely then fixed again in WAFR.

 

DIstrusting USKP becuase of something for Oblivion or the like is just silly, it's like not wanting to play the new Doom game because of some Doom 2 map you had problems with, different people making it and a generation's difference.

[Content Consumer]

Exactly, I disagree with some of the changes (they make changes to the color of some skins and the like, which makes TES5Edit flag it red when you use a NPC overhauler, they should leave all that to something like a Skyrim Redesigned mod), but armor and weapons are largely then fixed again in WAFR.

 

DIstrusting USKP becuase of something for Oblivion or the like is just silly, it's like not wanting to play the new Doom game because of some Doom 2 map you had problems with, different people making it and a generation's difference.

 

I get it, though. For example, it took me a hell of a long time to accept SKSE into my life, because many years ago I tried OBSE (for a couple of mods) for about an hour, and there was some sort of problem where I couldn't fast-click attacks (can't remember exactly), so I uninstalled it and told myself never again.

 

Stupid, I know, but that's just how I roll.

[Jexsam]

I'm curious, is there a reason why you don't use the USKP? It fixes countless thousands of bugs that the official patches didn't cover and most mods are made with USKP compatibility in mind, so I can't think of a single reason to not use them. I consider the unofficial patches, Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade, and Clothing and Clutter Fixes to be essential for ever mod loadout.

Put simply, I had a very bad experience with the Oblivion version. It rendered my game unplayable in a pretty dramatic way, which infuriated me since it claimed to fix errors, not cause them. So naturally I avoided the Skyrim version.

 

That being said, I've never actually tried USKP. If/When I wipe and reinstall again, I'll probably give it a shot, but I'm extremely hesitant to put in something that touches so much on an old, heavily modded install.

 

Besides, having to install a vast array of invasive fixes just to play nice with one small aspect of one mod seems unreasonable to me.

[Content Consumer]

 

Put simply, I had a very bad experience with the Oblivion version. It rendered my game unplayable in a pretty dramatic way, which infuriated me since it claimed to fix errors, not cause them. So naturally I avoided the Skyrim version.

 

 

 

That was basically my problem with SKSE (having had problems with OBSE).

 

I can add my endorsement for the USKP not causing problems, for whatever that's worth. The alterations it makes to Skyrim are, for the most part, invisible unless you're looking for it.

Then again, I've been playing with it from the start, so it would be hard for me to pinpoint what's been changed, it's been so long since I've played without it. Even if it's not a terribly obvious or game-changing alteration, if you've gotten used to playing with an unpatched Skyrim, you might not like the change, even if everyone else thinks it's better.

 

The files are in bsa format, not loose, so it's easy to delete, so I'd suggest going ahead and installing it and playing for a while, just to test. If it doesn't work for you, it's easy enough to remove and revert to a previous save.

[WaxenFigure]

 

Put simply, I had a very bad experience with the Oblivion version. It rendered my game unplayable in a pretty dramatic way, which infuriated me since it claimed to fix errors, not cause them. So naturally I avoided the Skyrim version.

 

That was basically my problem with SKSE (having had problems with OBSE).

 

I can add my endorsement for the USKP not causing problems, for whatever that's worth. The alterations it makes to Skyrim are, for the most part, invisible unless you're looking for it.

Then again, I've been playing with it from the start, so it would be hard for me to pinpoint what's been changed, it's been so long since I've played without it. Even if it's not a terribly obvious or game-changing alteration, if you've gotten used to playing with an unpatched Skyrim, you might not like the change, even if everyone else thinks it's better.

 

The files are in bsa format, not loose, so it's easy to delete, so I'd suggest going ahead and installing it and playing for a while, just to test. If it doesn't work for you, it's easy enough to remove and revert to a previous save.

 

Looking at the Skyrim Wiki you'll see "Fixed by USKP" under the bug notes on numerous quests. The people working on the Skyrim USKP have been real sticklers about being very correct in their patches.

[Sacremas]

 

I'm curious, is there a reason why you don't use the USKP? It fixes countless thousands of bugs that the official patches didn't cover and most mods are made with USKP compatibility in mind, so I can't think of a single reason to not use them. I consider the unofficial patches, Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade, and Clothing and Clutter Fixes to be essential for ever mod loadout.

Put simply, I had a very bad experience with the Oblivion version. It rendered my game unplayable in a pretty dramatic way, which infuriated me since it claimed to fix errors, not cause them. So naturally I avoided the Skyrim version.

 

That being said, I've never actually tried USKP. If/When I wipe and reinstall again, I'll probably give it a shot, but I'm extremely hesitant to put in something that touches so much on an old, heavily modded install.

 

Besides, having to install a vast array of invasive fixes just to play nice with one small aspect of one mod seems unreasonable to me.

 

 

As a BSA it'll automatically get overwritten by any loose files you have, and it'll be placed by LOOT in following order;

 

Skyrim.esm

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

Dawnguard.esm

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp

etc.

 

So any mods that come after will change them in turn. If you're wondering about the fake ESP thing that's simply to make it easier for the team to work on, all mod managers and the game and TES5Edit and such doesn't care about it and still treats them as ESMs even if they're set to ESPs.

 

THings they do is fix for example the windhelm murders quest Blood on the Ice so that if you solve it in a non-standard way (not falsely accusing the court mage) then you'll get the Necromancer's Amulet automatically, you can't fake past the quest by stealing Calixo's key and looting his chest for the third journal then have no one care about the journal in the quest, etc. Ysolda with USKP will be able to take over either the Bannered Mare if Hulda dies or Belethors' Goods if Belethor dies, things like that. Weapon changes are things like Nord Hero Arrows doing more damage than Daedric arrows in the base unmodded game, with USKP (or Weapons and Armor Fixes) they're around Glass quality instead.

[Destynova99]

If/when you do decide to do a reinstall, I highly suggest you get Mod Organizer. You should also consider using the STEP guide. It stands as a good base and you can leave out what you don't like or replace mods as you go along. Having the different profiles with Mod Organizer is a godsend as well. Being able to fine tune what mods are active for each profile makes it worth it on that merit alone and that's only part of the good things you can do with it.  Not to mention it leaves your Skyrim install pristine so you won't have to worry about completely reinstalling Skyrim because of the many bugs introduced by adding and removing mods.

 

That being said though, we've gotten a bit off topic which is my fault because I asked why some choose not to use the USKP. So I think we covered that adequately so let's get back on track with discussion about Solutions. Wraith you probably don't need to have USKP as an actual master... I could be wrong but you could just make sure you load USKP when you're working on the mod. The changes done by the USKP aren't hard coded (I don't know the technical term for that...) what I mean is if you carry over the changes it doesn't require USKP be added as a master. If I run the "Clean masters" function on TES5edit on Solutions, it removes Update.esm and the USKP as unnecessary masters. So there shouldn't be a need to have the dependency be there. Does the Creation Kit force you to add USKP as a master to carry the changes over?

[WraithSlayer]

 

Wraith you probably don't need to have USKP as an actual master... I could be wrong but you could just make sure you load USKP when you're working on the mod. The changes done by the USKP aren't hard coded (I don't know the technical term for that...) what I mean is if you carry over the changes it doesn't require USKP be added as a master. If I run the "Clean masters" function on TES5edit on Solutions, it removes Update.esm and the USKP as unnecessary masters. So there shouldn't be a need to have the dependency be there. Does the Creation Kit force you to add USKP as a master to carry the changes over?

 

You're correct that Solutions doesn't technically require USKP as a master. Currently there are no references to USKP-specific forms, so the master dependency can be safely removed without anything breaking. This is also why the dummy USKP I've provided works without any of the mod's content breaking.

 

Why is the dependency, then? Because when you're working on a mod, every time you save your progress, the CK will add any and all masters that happen to be loaded at the time, even if you're referencing literally nothing from them. So my choices were either:

1. Work on the mod without USKP being loaded, and try to mimic the changes later in TES5Edit before each release.
2. Keep USKP loaded during development, then manually remove the dependency every time I finish a new version.
3. Keep USKP as a permanent master, and offer a way around it via the dummy USKP ESP for those who insist on not using USKP for whatever reason.

Given that #1 and #2 are extra work for me, and I'd be liable to forgetting and releasing a version with an unexpected dependency or full of unintended USKP overwrites, #3 made a lot more sense for me at the time. Clearly I was wrong, seeing how unexpectedly controversial this decision ended up being.

 

Anyway, it's all moot now. With the upcoming transition of the unofficial patches into the unified Legendary Edition patch, I'll no longer have the option to reference USKP as a master without forcing Solutions to also have an unnecessary dependency to Dawnguard, Hearthfire, and Dragonborn as well. As such, the upcoming 4.0.0 version of this mod will no longer have a USKP dependency, and I'll have to figure out some other way of keeping it USKP-friendly that doesn't take away what's left of my sanity.

[MallaVelve]

Not to mention that while I can see your point of having a heavy modded game without USKP and introducing it would be possible a nightmare.  Most people and most mods now have it as a master and have incorporated it.  So there a thousands out there that use and have no issue with USKP.  Myself included.  I have 227 plugins and over 330 mods installed.  Could there be some glitch that I do not recognize as coming from USKP...sure.  But so far...(Many years of SKYRIM play) I would not drop it.

[Content Consumer]

 

Because when you're working on a mod, every time you save your progress, the CK will add any and all masters that happen to be loaded at the time, even if you're referencing literally nothing from them. 

 

...what?

I've made mods before without the CK adding those masters... For example:

This mod doesn't have the USKP as a master, even though it's loaded.

 

I get the feeling I'm misunderstanding what you're saying... 

 

 

EDIT: Wait, do you mean loaded in the CK? That makes sense... after all, if the file is opened in the CK, it thinks you're doing something to it even when you aren't.

So then my question becomes, if you're editing nothing in the USKP, why have it loaded at all?

 

I get the feeling that I'm still misunderstanding...

[Sacremas]

He's keeping USKP loaded in CK because he wants to make sure that his changes to NPCs are the same that USKP does.

[Content Consumer]

He's keeping USKP loaded in CK because he wants to make sure that his changes to NPCs are the same that USKP does.

 

Ah. Gotcha.

[WraithSlayer]

He's keeping USKP loaded in CK because he wants to make sure that his changes to NPCs are the same that USKP does.

 

Exactly. By having USKP loaded in CK while I work on Solutions, it's insurance that whatever edits I do to the game will automatically bundle USKP fixes, instead of having to handle them manually later on. Given that USKP has a ton of dialogue condition fixes, every edit I do to add Solutions dialogue has a pretty high risk of breaking a USKP change if I don't have it as a master while working on the mod.

[afa]

It really isn't that extreme, I don't mind USKP too much. If the day comes that it is needed as hard dependency for Solutions I won't mind putting it in my load order.

 

Majority of the time it is for record keeping just to be consistent with the information out there more than anything else, I can't list all the minor changes USKP or WAFR makes, so when I cross reference stuff I can't decide if the information out there I find is correct even if it is information about the vanilla game being bugged. I will need to have the changelog of all of them side by side going through 3 lists at once.

As for changes I don't particular like, the "bugged" Azura star is handy as is Falmer/Pentius helmet serving as 5th enchant slots. Ancient Knowledge get fixed by the official patch and it is still bugged although having it fix by USKP could potentially make the game more interesting.

 

WAFR optional orcish weapon fix and dragon vs daedric are something I strongly dislike, and perhaps unfairly sour me on the whole thing. Rant ahead:

 

The proposed fix to have weapon rank, strong to weak, orc > elf > dwarf is IMO inferior to vanilla order of weapons being, strong to weak, elf > dwarf > orc. (elf > orc > dwarf might be acceptable perhaps even best)

The original meshes very well with how light vs heavy armor plays out in the game rather it is intentionally or not. Especially so if you start to consider when each style of armor vs weapon enters the level list, when they get their temper bonus or if player invests in smithing at all, If you tag along Ancient Knowledge (both bugged and fixed), and include unique weapons like dwarven crossbow or Long hammer things really feel more dynamic than the static approach. Dragonborn DLC perhaps makes the left path of Smithing too powerful early on, but it is still somewhat interesting in the long run when Stalhrim comes into play.

 

[Sacremas]

[totally off topic]

 

Well traditionally orcish have always been better than elvish armor wise, they use much denser and tougher material and orcish smiths are sought after across Tamriel, and welcomed in the Imperial Legion specifically for it. Orcish also takes a higher level of smithing to work with, and orichalcum is more expensive.

 

However I think Dwarven armor should be best, because of several reasons; no one knows how to make dwemer metal now, it's an advanced alloy of moonstone and quicksilver likely, it's the armor of Tamriel's most advanced race ever (Sotha Sil might argue there though), and it's usually only found in dangerous dwarven dungeons, and dwemer metal ingots can't be mined in any fashion, you have to melt down existing dwarven gear. I think Dwarven gear should be excluded from level lists of smiths and the like, and only found in those ruins due to this.

 

[/totally off topic]

[afa]

more off topic stuff

 

See it is possible to make that work as well. All that means is switch the places of dwarven with orc so dwarven armor will be better than orc, but orc will end up having better weapon. Elven armor already offers less defense than both being light armor, but have other advantages.

 

Vanilla smithing and light vs heavy armor is actually a game of trade offs early on that I find surprisingly interesting. With physical attack being superior in the game and armor being such importance smithing is a must have, but the question is when to invest and how far each time?

Player will likely focus on either light or heavy armor early on, and pick an offense (1h, 2h, bow, spells). Armor + offense can easily take up 4 early perks with the starter 1/5 and skill level 20's 2/5, other possible options includes sneak, novice spell, alchemy, and smithing.

1st smithing perks favors heavy armor with steel. A light armor character will only get weapon out of it, is it worth it? holding off early investment on smithing gives orc weapon their use, but they will likely never get temper with perk.

At smithing 30 dwarven unlocks, and player can pick go with it or not? For heavy armor user this means better weapon and armor. For light armor user this once again is only a weapon upgrade.

At 50 Elven unlocks, this might be the first time light armor user considers smithing since it unlocks both new armor and weapon with bonus tempering. Even for heavy armor user this is another cross road, elven gives better weapon than dwarven, but orc gives better armor. With Dragonborn DLC heavy Chitin unlocks here so maybe it would have been a good idea to go from steel to elven and skip dwarven and orc even for a heavy armor user saving some early perk points?

Then things go on from there with Advance/Nordic armor+weapon, Glass, and Ebony/Stalhrim, dragon vs daedric.

 

[Sacremas]

What you can do instead is just use this mods and then have the smiths like Eorlund make and temper your armor, then bring it up to Farengar and get it Enchanted, or take it to the College and speak to Sergius. That way you don't have to level smithing and enchanting. Of course you can't make a NPC put on crafted Fortify Smithing gear so a dedicated crafter will still be best, but that takes a lot of time and investment vs just saving up the gold.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51024/?

 

Oh yeah, and add this as well and suddenly it's well possible for mages to outdo weapons by a lot, with vanilla skill system and vanilla spells.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/45021/?

[MallaVelve]

[totally off topic]

 

Well traditionally orcish have always been better than elvish armor wise, they use much denser and tougher material and orcish smiths are sought after across Tamriel, and welcomed in the Imperial Legion specifically for it. Orcish also takes a higher level of smithing to work with, and orichalcum is more expensive.

 

However I think Dwarven armor should be best, because of several reasons; no one knows how to make dwemer metal now, it's an advanced alloy of moonstone and quicksilver likely, it's the armor of Tamriel's most advanced race ever (Sotha Sil might argue there though), and it's usually only found in dangerous dwarven dungeons, and dwemer metal ingots can't be mined in any fashion, you have to melt down existing dwarven gear. I think Dwarven gear should be excluded from level lists of smiths and the like, and only found in those ruins due to this.

 

[/totally off topic]

Just because something is rare does not mean it is better than an abundant resource.  

It is an alloy as you said which is why it can't be mined.  the resources are there but no one has figured it out yet...OR  One of the resources that were used in its making had been depleted in ancient times.  But this also does not necessarily make it better than ebony or even dragonbone/scale. 

[Sacremas]

Didn't say that at all, I said it was should be better than Orcish. So it would be Steel - Orcish - Dwarven - Ebony - Daedric - Dragon (shared with light), and Leather - Advanced - Elven - Glass - Dragon. Dragon shared because it takes a master smith to work it so you need BOTH paths of feats, and unlike what USKP and WAFR says, Dragon should be better than Daedric.

 

EDIT: Rereading quoted paragraph I see the misunderstanding, by "best" i just meant best in the "Orcish/Elvish/Dwarven" racial gear we were discussing, not actually best armor all around.

[WraithSlayer]

Version 4.0.0 released.

 

- Note: This version includes changes that may or may not cause issues if updated for an on-going save. Refer to the Updating section in the main topic if you're having problems.
- ESP renamed from SSv2.esp to a clearer name, SexLab_Solutions.esp.
- USKP dependency has been removed, as it will become deprecated in the future in favor of a unified unofficial patch. I'll handle USKP compatibility manually whenever overwrites occur. (For those of you that were using the WS Dummy USKP to bypass the dependency, you no longer need it.)
- The LAL patch is now obsolete and has been removed from the installer, as SexLab Solutions now includes changes identical to those made by LAL. (PO hasn't changed, and still requires the patch if you have that)
- New content: At the end of 'Coming of Age', Salma owes you for putting you through all that trouble.
- New content: Offer the dragon attack survivors a more sizeable donation in return for... services rendered.
- The 'Display text flair' option in MCM now refreshes its state properly when clicked, no longer requiring the MCM window to be re-opened to display the change.
 

[MallaVelve]

Thanks Wraith!

 

[laniko]

LOOT tries to place Solutions ahead of Live Another Life in the load order.  I moved it manually.

[Averlin]

I just updated and I got an error message I don't understand: "Programmer error: please initialize at least one of the following: zadKeyword!/zbfKeyword!". I played for a while, then loaded a couple old saves to see if it happened again. It just told me it was updating Solutions to v4, no error message. I tried starting a new game and it gave the error message again. This looks like a Devious Devices thing, or zaz overhaul? Other than the error message, I haven't noticed anything odd in the hour or so I played. Just to see if it would happen again, I shut the game down completely and restarted it, and I got the error again. I'm not a programmer and I don't know what mod zadKeyword belongs to, so I have no idea how to initialize it.

[RookieKing]

I don't know if it's just me or something, but I think there is a problem with 4.0.0 update, Prison overhaul patch still requires SSv2.esp as master, and since SSv2.esp has been renamed, the game would crash at the start.