SexLab Solutions 5.0.7 (01-December-2017)

[Alploochra]

The WHOLE POINT of the Dark Brotherhood is to have one facet only.

And reducing TES's background to cartoon villainy is more than laughable. Please refrain your personal tastes so they not rewrite the game universe.

[Sacremas]

Bad writign on Bethesda's side doesn't excuse it automatically on ours.

Also keep in mind that your single faceted character is also the same that does the following;

 

Fight as a soldier in the Civil War

Save the world from Dragons

Rescue citizens as part of Companions

Does the Daedric Quests

And since this is Sexlab and Solutions in particular, have lots and lots of sex and seduce people.

 

I'm kinda seeing more than one facet to this person...

[Alploochra]

Yeah because whenever it's not what you want it's bad writing.
It's still their own universe, that's not for you to decide.

And your faceted character absolutely has NOT to do all the thing you listed, stomping the game as a completionnist munchkin is not the only way it can be played. I don't run the brotherhood, the guild, the companions and the college in the same game and i'm certainly not the only one. The whole reason you can do it in the game (all the quest lines) is to bring the people that don't care of immersion coherency to silence because they're the kind of people that wouldn't restart the game with another character and cry for limited content.


Anyway the point remains : adding this kind of content is okay, i don't care, i've got the choice to deny it in my game; defending it with bullshit stretching of the lore is not okay.

And telling people they're morons and can't understand multifaceted characters is certainly not okay either.

[Sacremas]

Hey, I never called you a moron, that's just you thinking bad thoughts about yourself and assuming everyone's out to get you. That's not healthy. But if that's what you prefer, I'm good with it as well.

[WraithSlayer]

There's nothing in the lore that says the player must become completely apathetic to be a member of the Dark Brotherhood. Sure, you have to murder an innocent to gain entry, but then again, the same requirement exists for joining the Penitus Oculatus, as it's their way of proving their loyalty to the Emperor and ability to take orders without question.

 

Besides, there are plenty of reasons why you might have killed one of Astrid's captives, without necessarily having to become a soulless killing machine that thirsts for blood at every opportunity: maybe you took a liking to Astrid and wanted to impress her, or maybe your sense of decency takes a backseat when the prospect of gold is involved. And let's not forget that the reason Astrid got to you in the first place is because you murdered a vile woman to help a child. Bethesda's writing may not be perfect at times, but they don't paint things as black and white as you're claiming them to be.

 

[Old Book]

The Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion were better. You could tell yourself you were a good guy, murdering only those who deserved to die, right up until the murders in the mansion quest. At which point you had no choice. A great seduction into evil storyline.

The Skyrim questline isn't as good, but still leaves room for complex or conflicted characters.

[RavinBeast]

Okay, I Think We Got Off On The Wrong Foot Here, I'm Not Trying To Bash Anyone For Their Personal Playstyle.

 

But I Agree That From A Roleplaying Standpoint An Evil Character Is Much More Likely To Want Join A Guild Of Assassins And Laugh At The Idea Of Joining The Companions

 

But For Completionist Playthrough None Of That Would Matter, Just Stats On Scoreboard 

 

As For A Multi-Faceted Character Who's Very Kind Hearted But Maybe Doesn't Have A Problem Killing People Who Deserve It, Might Be Willing To Kill "Grelod The-Cruel" But Would Have Zero Interest In Going That Extra Step To Join The Dark Brotherhood.

[Sacremas]

I don't disagree at all that to join this Dark Brotherhood you have to be evil, and it's probably not the same person who joined the Companions unless you're somewhat split personality. But there are facets of evil, you can be someone killing for fun and finds sexual pleasure in ripping a baby's heart out, or just someone who doesn't care and does what it takes to get along. Most players will fall into the latter category. If the Harbinger of the Companions woke up in that hut, then Astrid would have seconds left to live. If someone already sworn to Nocturnal woke up... well even though the thieves guild is not a evil questline (or a particularily good one, *shudders'*) there's not much of a stretch for that character becoming an assassin. But that assassin would almost certainly be killing for the payday at the end, not for the joy of extinguishing lives, and if he or she saw an opportunity to fulfill a contract with a different solution (sorry) there's not much of a stretch for them to take it. Now if that character was also the Champion of Molag Bal, Mephala, Namira or Boethia, then yeah there's not much of a stretch either that it would be exactly that kind of nihilistic person only interested in delivering souls to Sithis that the questline in all honesty fits the most. But that doesn't mean that's the only way to play it, and claiming otherwise is forcing your view of the game on someone else.

[Old Book]

Even the Most Evil Man In The World might like sex sometimes.

We role play, or not, as we want. There's no Bad Wrong Fun in a computer RPG. My evil characters still save the world, because it's their world and they keep all their stuff there. 

 

[Sacremas]

"I quite like our world, even if I don't like everyone in it."

-Baron Helmut Zemo, 2015

 

If a supervillain who just tried to sterilize the entire world in order to enforce a nazi regime can work to save the world, then so can most assassins. Okay that special person who's only interested in delivering souls to Sithis might want to deliver the entire world to them ("Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.") and would be a poor choice for a dragonborn, but most Listeners can figure out that if more people are born, that's more people that can be sent to Sithis later.

[Ryzaki009]

My harbinger was an assassin :3 but she was always a mage she only joined because she wanted to learn the secret of the circle and once she became a werewolf she wanted out and by the time she got cured welp.

[Sacremas]

Yep, that's a very good way to do it with an evil character. Also keep in mind one word of Fire Breath is unlocked in Dustman's Cairn, and Animal Allegiance is only unlocked once you're done with Glory to the Dead at the top of Ysgramor's Tomb.

 

If the Dragonborn became a true master of the Thu'um and unlocked all the words, here's what they'd have to do;

 

Be the harbinger of the companions.

Be the Archmage of the college of Winterhold (there's a word at the end of Labyrinthian, moreover if the Dragonborn also unlocked the secret of Khonarik which require ALL the dragon priest masks they had to have done this, note however you can technically become the Archmage without leveling any of your magic skills at all, the amount of spells you absolutely have to cast during that questline can be counted on one hand and they are all novice or apprentice spells, for the rest feel free to use your sword)

Having joined the Thieves Guild and at least gotten to Snow Veil Sanctum.

Having either destroyed or joined the Dark Brotherhood (only the Marked for Death wordwall inside the sanctuary matters), regardless Grelod have to die.

Having in addition to killing Alduin (five complete shouts are only available this path) they also had to have done Dawnguard (three shouts) and Dragonborn (four shouts).

And raided a fuckton of ruins, and killed upwards of 50 dragons to unlock all that stuff.

[Old Book]

Solutions Suggestions:

 

Have sex with Astrid instead of killing one of the three captives, thus convincing her to let you out of the cabin and invite you to join the Dark Brotherhood.

Have sex with Constance, who then tells you the secret that Grelod is part Hag Raven and offers to tell the Jarl. Confront Grelod, who then flees the city. Quest complete.

Pay 100 gold to have sex with Grelod (mmm, Half Hag Raven Old Lady Sex), then tell the Jarl that Grelod is entertaining customers right next to the kids. Jarl has Grelod executed. Quest complete.

[WraithSlayer]

Have sex with Constance, who then tells you the secret that Grelod is part Hag Raven and offers to tell the Jarl. Confront Grelod, who then flees the city. Quest complete.

 

Pay 100 gold to have sex with Grelod (mmm, Half Hag Raven Old Lady Sex), then tell the Jarl that Grelod is entertaining customers right next to the kids. Jarl has Grelod executed. Quest complete.

 

These don't really fit with the Dark Brotherhood questline. Astrid only captures you if you've 'stolen' a contract from them. Making Grelod flee or have the Jarl execute her wouldn't make Astrid come after you.

[RavinBeast]

I don't disagree at all that to join this Dark Brotherhood you have to be evil, and it's probably not the same person who joined the Companions unless you're somewhat split personality. But there are facets of evil, you can be someone killing for fun and finds sexual pleasure in ripping a baby's heart out, or just someone who doesn't care and does what it takes to get along. Most players will fall into the latter category. If the Harbinger of the Companions woke up in that hut, then Astrid would have seconds left to live. If someone already sworn to Nocturnal woke up... well even though the thieves guild is not a evil questline (or a particularily good one, *shudders'*) there's not much of a stretch for that character becoming an assassin. But that assassin would almost certainly be killing for the payday at the end, not for the joy of extinguishing lives, and if he or she saw an opportunity to fulfill a contract with a different solution (sorry) there's not much of a stretch for them to take it. Now if that character was also the Champion of Molag Bal, Mephala, Namira or Boethia, then yeah there's not much of a stretch either that it would be exactly that kind of nihilistic person only interested in delivering souls to Sithis that the questline in all honesty fits the most. But that doesn't mean that's the only way to play it, and claiming otherwise is forcing your view of the game on someone else.

I Never Claimed That Was The Only Way To Play, I Merely Stated How I Play, Which Is In No Way Shape Or Form Forcing My View Of The Game On Someone Else.

 

Anyway, I Didn't Want My Suggestion To Derail The Thread Into A Debate Of Good VS Evil/Roleplay VS Completionist, So Can We Please Just Get Back On Topic...

[Sacremas]

Well I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the other guy who seemed to think I was cramming my playstyle down his throat and trying to justify it when in truth it was the other way around.

[Sacremas]

 

Have sex with Constance, who then tells you the secret that Grelod is part Hag Raven and offers to tell the Jarl. Confront Grelod, who then flees the city. Quest complete.

 

Pay 100 gold to have sex with Grelod (mmm, Half Hag Raven Old Lady Sex), then tell the Jarl that Grelod is entertaining customers right next to the kids. Jarl has Grelod executed. Quest complete.

 

These don't really fit with the Dark Brotherhood questline. Astrid only captures you if you've 'stolen' a contract from them. Making Grelod flee or have the Jarl execute her wouldn't make Astrid come after you.

 

 

Going to have to agree here, none of these make sense. Sorry Book. Only solution I could see with Astrid is to have sex with her and she tells you "Yeah It's the Khajiit who's evil, the other two are innocent" or "The merchant sold slaves, the mercenary massacred a village and the housewife poisoned her husband and children. They're all guilty."

 

But really while a nice appeasment for that specific act, your very next mission will have you killing a lot of people that can't be as easily said are guilty. So might as well get the bad part over with and say they're all innocent, she just wants you to kill someone. Then have sex with her as a solution to letting you out of the hut without killing anyone, quest fails and Destroy the Dark Brotherhood doesn't come up, and you don't get access to the Black Door. Kind of an all over loss though considering you loose a shout and one of those goddamn Stones of Barenziah.

[RavinBeast]

Well I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the other guy who seemed to think I was cramming my playstyle down his throat and trying to justify it when in truth it was the other way around.

Oh "That" Guy, Yeah They Were Acting Like A Bit Of A Dick.

 

I'm Sure You've Seen My SIG So You Know Eyesight Isn't The Best...

[Budroi]

Thanks again for maintaining this mod.

I do have a question.

Has anything with the mod changed for compatibility with mods that had dependencies with the old file name?

Sexlab Leveling for example.

Using the Solutions new esp, integration stops with SL Leveling.

If i was to go into TESVEdit and changed the SSv2.esp to new name would that bring integrations back or would more work be needed?

[RavinBeast]

 

 

 

 

 

one of those goddamn Stones of Barenziah.

 

 

Check My SIG

[WraithSlayer]

Thanks again for maintaining this mod.

I do have a question.

Has anything with the mod changed for compatibility with mods that had dependencies with the old file name?

Sexlab Leveling for example.

Using the Solutions new esp, integration stops with SL Leveling.

If i was to go into TESVEdit and changed the SSv2.esp to new name would that bring integrations back or would more work be needed?

 

Short answer:

Yes, that would be enough, as long as you ensure that the new master reference for Solutions is listed in exactly the same position as before.

 

 

Long answer:

That depends on how the masters list in SexLab Leveling looks like, and what other edits you may want to do with it. When an ESP references formIDs in another plugin, the first two digits correspond to which of the ESP masters that formID belongs to. So if you have a mod that includes Skyrim.esm, Update.esm, and SexLab.esm as a master, formIDs of those will correspond to 00, 01, and 02, respectively. With this in mind, as long as you make sure that SexLab Leveling has Solutions defined as a master in the same order as it was before, then the referenced formIDs will match and everything should work as expected.

[Sacremas]

 

 

 

 

 

 

one of those goddamn Stones of Barenziah.

 

 

Check My SIG

 

 

Nice, thanks. I use one that makes them sellable, and one that marks them all on your map once the quest begins. Still haven't bothered finding them all once.

[Budroi]

 

 

Thanks again for maintaining this mod.

I do have a question.

Has anything with the mod changed for compatibility with mods that had dependencies with the old file name?

Sexlab Leveling for example.

Using the Solutions new esp, integration stops with SL Leveling.

If i was to go into TESVEdit and changed the SSv2.esp to new name would that bring integrations back or would more work be needed?

 

 

Short answer:

Yes, that would be enough, as long as you ensure that the new master reference for Solutions is listed in exactly the same position as before.

 

 

Long answer:

That depends on how the masters list in SexLab Leveling looks like, and what other edits you may want to do with it. When an ESP references formIDs in another plugin, the first two digits correspond to which of the ESP masters that formID belongs to. So if you have a mod that includes Skyrim.esm, Update.esm, and SexLab.esm as a master, formIDs of those will correspond to 00, 01, and 02, respectively. With this in mind, as long as you make sure that SexLab Leveling has Solutions defined as a master in the same order as it was before, then the referenced formIDs will match and everything should work as expected.

 

 

Ok thanks, I will attempt this when I get home from work.

 

[Alploochra]

There's nothing in the lore that says the player must become completely apathetic to be a member of the Dark Brotherhood. Sure, you have to murder an innocent to gain entry, but then again, the same requirement exists for joining the Penitus Oculatus, as it's their way of proving their loyalty to the Emperor and ability to take orders without question.

 

Besides, there are plenty of reasons why you might have killed one of Astrid's captives, without necessarily having to become a soulless killing machine that thirsts for blood at every opportunity: maybe you took a liking to Astrid and wanted to impress her, or maybe your sense of decency takes a backseat when the prospect of gold is involved. And let's not forget that the reason Astrid got to you in the first place is because you murdered a vile woman to help a child. Bethesda's writing may not be perfect at times, but they don't paint things as black and white as you're claiming them to be.

 

1- Nobody said the Peniltus Occulatus is the good assassins' guild.

 

2- The Dark Brotherhood is literally a religious doom cult dedicated to Sithis, embodiment of chaos, nothingness and apathy.

Doing the kind of things you two are describing makes you bad at being a Brother. Full stop.

 

3- I don't see where killing an innocent person to impress Astrid because you like her is in any way not totally evil. O_o

 

4- The whole point about Grelod is that you kill her because she has been targeted by the Black Sacrament, not because she's a bitch to the children.

You may fill good to have killed her because of it, and that's totally intentionnal to push you on the slippery slope. Next step, kill a total innocent.

 

And that would be bad writing ? I don't think so. Bethesda makes eveything to blur good and evil in TES games and it's clearly working. Present case as proof.

 

 

Oh and 5- I'm not painting things in black or white. I don't see what lets you say that.

[WraithSlayer]

 

1- Nobody said the Peniltus Occulatus is the good assassins' guild.

 

2- The Dark Brotherhood is literally a religious doom cult dedicated to Sithis, embodiment of chaos, nothingness and apathy.

Doing the kind of things you two are describing makes you bad at being a Brother. Full stop.

 

3- I don't see where killing an innocent person to impress Astrid because you like her is in any way not totally evil. O_o

 

4- The whole point about Grelod is that you kill her because she has been targeted by the Black Sacrament, not because she's a bitch to the children.

You may fill good to have killed her because of it, and that's totally intentionnal to push you on the slippery slope. Next step, kill a total innocent.

 

And that would be bad writing ? I don't think so. Bethesda makes eveything to blur good and evil in TES games and it's clearly working. Present case as proof.

 

 

Oh and 5- I'm not painting things in black or white. I don't see what lets you say that.

 

 

You're clearly ignoring or twisting the words of half the stuff I said, so it's best that we just agree to disagree.