Guest corespore Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 If this serves one purpose it did show what the gamer journalist community really though about gamers in general. When it's all said and done i do wonder what will happen to places like Kotaku. I mean once you denounce your core audience what do you do after that? Even if they "win" (whatever that means at this point) where does everyone go now? Certainly both sides aren't just going to shake hands and act as if none of this went down after all. It all just makes me wonder what both sides really think they are fighting for, is there anything left of this whole thing worth saving? I'd say the earth has been salted a bit to much this time. It feels a bit like a really badly scripted Fallout game at this point. All i see is an ending where no matter who wins when they've taken a tally of all they have lost and who they sacrificed to achieve that victory at this moment they will look out to the horizon to see what they have won.... a wasteland.
prideslayer Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Hah I think that's way too melodramatic. I doubt even one person has changed their opinion about a particular media personality or group based on anything that's happened. Or canceled a magazine subscription or youtube channel subscription. It's just one echo chamber shouting at another, which is exactly what it's been since the start. The great masses of people don't know anything about it, and in the minority that do, most of them don't really care. I know I don't care. It makes for some lulz, nothing more, and by spring I'll be hard pressed to remember the name of a single person or group involved.
windpl Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 I was on some game site, seen another article about anita and then it struck me. I haven't seen author of this articles write a single review. Sure there is a division of work but that's makes a question about sanity and business purpose of that magazine.
Krysee Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 As far as I can tell, Anita is just a troll ... and people can't resist feeding the trolls.
Someone92 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Regarding women in IT, or more specific open source development, there's a nice article from Susan Sons on linuxjournal: Girls and Software http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/girls-and-software Twelve-year-old girls today don't generally get to have the experiences that I did. Parents are warned to keep kids off the computer lest they get lured away by child molesters or worse—become fat! That goes doubly for girls, who then grow up to be liberal arts majors. Then, in their late teens or early twenties, someone who feels the gender skew in technology communities is a problem drags them to a LUG meeting or an IRC channel. Shockingly, this doesn't turn the young women into hackers. Why does anyone, anywhere, think this will work? Start with a young woman who's already formed her identity. Dump her in a situation that operates on different social scripts than she's accustomed to, full of people talking about a subject she doesn't yet understand. Then tell her the community is hostile toward women and therefore doesn't have enough of them, all while showing her off like a prize poodle so you can feel good about recruiting a female. This is a recipe for failure. I came to the Open Source world because I liked being part of a community where my ideas, my skills and my experience mattered, not my boobs. That's changed, and it's changed at the hands of the people who say they want a community where ideas, skills and experience matter more than boobs.
prideslayer Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I agree with her. There are plenty of female hacker types out there. I met many in the old days at 2600 gatherings in NYC and Philadelphia, and other related activities. If they don't go on to make careers out of it, SFW. The ones that want to, do. Forcing them to enter the community and then parading them around... cannot possibly help. I know female developers, engineers, and even a chemist. They didn't get where they are by being treated differently from the men. The percentage of women earning CS degrees has dropped to half of what it was in the past 30 years (37% vs 18%), all while the workplace was ostensibly becoming more PC and female-friendly, and these "encouragement drives" have been undertaken. I bet they're hurting more than helping. edit: fixed last sentence.
Guest Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 . Publishers don't pay (youtube) reviewers per se. They just won't supply you with pre-release versions anymore so that your review can't be done in time. That means you lose viewers and clicks - the video I linked to earlier describes what WB did which was a deal that promised you a pre-release version but you had to avoid showing bugs and were not allowed to criticize the game. You took that deal, you got lot of views which equals money. You didn't take the deal, you had to buy a copy on release day, play the game like anyone else and by the time you finished it, the majority of your potential viewers finished it, too. As always, it's mostly because of the consumers. Impatient as they are, they play directly into the hands of the publishers who want to squeeze as much money as possible out of you. The same issues that plagued the 'professional game journalism' have already infected 'amateur' reviewers as well. Which wouldn't be much of a problem if enough people would be okay to have a review one or two weeks after the game is released, but alas, that's not the case. Most want it as soon as possible and as always, the majority is what counts. Whatever kind of review is popular at the moment, publishers will try to exploit it. I wouldn't be surprised if the next step is paying forum regulars to write positive about the game. /tinfoilhat I think the infiltration of games forums has already been in full swing for some considerable time so get used to sporting that tinfoil hat. Because you're probably right. If it can happen it probably will. On the bright side, as with nashi-bots, these "this game's BRILLIANT" personas rarely get past the eagle eyed public who have a biological Turing Test style response mechanism that seems to kick in with almost Pavlovian efficiency. You can generally tell a hit and run a mile away. No forum regular wanting to maintain their place in a community would dare to test it. I have a lot of faith in my fellows.
Someone92 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Regarding the point that nowadays we have less women in technical occupations than a few decades ago despite all the quotas, women promotion programs and special advertising such as 'Girls Days': There is the concept of the 'overjustification effect'. Bascially, rewarding a child for a certain behavior or activity they already like doing will make the child to like said behavior or activity less and less. It's possible that the aquivalent happens with women and all the advertising for women in MINT subjects. Most of the women who have no interest in such subjects won't have their minds changed by said advertising, but many of those who originally had an interest in such subjects are driven away by the advertising. However, another possible explanation for this trend is that we simply got richer. MINT subjects are generally better paid than teaching or social work. So in a country that isn't "rich" your primary concern when choosing your career path is to get a somewhat secure job and earn enough money to be independent, your actual work interests are less important. In a "rich" country you aren't as limited by economic restrictions, even if you get a relatively low-paying job such as teacher or social worker is still more than enough for your daily life.
Emberheart Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I don't notice a lot of this, but then again I don't involve too deeply with gaming communities. I do admit I've mostly kept away from using TeamSpeak and such, worrying of being harassed but this is mostly because the particular games that require TeamSpeak happens to have a certain targetgroup of gamers who in particular are known for harassment (FPS players, MMO players). On the other hand I've had a lot of fun voice acting for fan mods for games, because there's a sore lack of female voice actresses. The question is when do you need to tell people your gender? On a community where you have a lot of outside contact such as on LL, it's nice to know who we all are. But in a first person shooter, why should I specifically mention "Oh by the way, I'm a girl", is there some rational purpose to rubbing that fact in? Does it get me benefits? No. If people ask, I won't avoid the question but I won't fling around whatever is not need-to-know in such a game. Bragging about being a girl gamer just because you should be able to is stupid, you're only distantiating from others that way. It used to be called attention whoring anyway. There's no Gamergate. And Zoe Quinn dating a journalist? How many developers regardless of gender hang out with journalists anyway, quite a few probably because they all have something in common, they're all gamers.
pinky6225 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Regarding women in IT, or more specific open source development, there's a nice article from Susan Sons on linuxjournal: Girls and Software http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/girls-and-software Twelve-year-old girls today don't generally get to have the experiences that I did. Parents are warned to keep kids off the computer lest they get lured away by child molesters or worse—become fat! That goes doubly for girls, who then grow up to be liberal arts majors. Then, in their late teens or early twenties, someone who feels the gender skew in technology communities is a problem drags them to a LUG meeting or an IRC channel. Shockingly, this doesn't turn the young women into hackers. Why does anyone, anywhere, think this will work? Start with a young woman who's already formed her identity. Dump her in a situation that operates on different social scripts than she's accustomed to, full of people talking about a subject she doesn't yet understand. Then tell her the community is hostile toward women and therefore doesn't have enough of them, all while showing her off like a prize poodle so you can feel good about recruiting a female. This is a recipe for failure. I came to the Open Source world because I liked being part of a community where my ideas, my skills and my experience mattered, not my boobs. That's changed, and it's changed at the hands of the people who say they want a community where ideas, skills and experience matter more than boobs. From the way the above is written it makes it sound like all boys are implanted with computer knowledge at birth and thus can understand everything in a way that girls can't, yes boys and girls are different and their are some not quite understood differences between our brains but as far as i understand the current idea's about the difference they do not mean one is intrinsically better at something than the other (the idea behind one sex being better at something than the other only applies when we talk about the "average" boy/girl - you ever met a "average" boy/girl?)
prideslayer Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 the idea behind one sex being better at something than the other only applies when we talk about the "average" boy/girl - you ever met a "average" boy/girl? Don't confuse the phrase "an average girl" with the phrase "on average, girls". The first doesn't exist. The second might be a valid generalization drawn from statistical analysis or actual physical science.
RitualClarity Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 the idea behind one sex being better at something than the other only applies when we talk about the "average" boy/girl - you ever met a "average" boy/girl? Don't confuse the phrase "an average girl" with the phrase "on average, girls". The first doesn't exist. The second might be a valid generalization drawn from statistical analysis or actual physical science. Or for more clarification.. with how punctuation is important... lOL
Emberheart Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Let's look at it from another angle for the moment. What about the videogame publisher mafia? It's a lesser known fact, but certainly not undocumented that many videogame publishers demand that magazines give a minimal or favourable score to their game. If that magazine refuses, they may no longer receive early-access to game betas, which means they cannot preview a videogame and lose readers. For decades game publishers have held journalists by the proverbal balls. Some publishers in particular held so many licenses that if they were to blacklist a videogame magazine, that magazine would surely go bankrupt within a year or two. It's not entirely strange that videogame journalists and videogame companies have tensions between them. The only shame is that it's not the developers who are to blaim, but the publishers, while the developers get a lot of flak.
afa Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Such is the dynamics of publisher and media outlets. Publisher wants to get the biggest profits possible this includes: Favorable review Exposure (hopefully favorable, but occasionally "controversy" also works) Media wants to bet the biggest income possible this includes: Ad dollar Fan base Site Traffic Some of these things might be contradicting each other, say if a media outlet is "corrupt" it ends up picking more ad dollar but could in turn alienate their fan base. The thing is publishers now have more outlets for exposure than ever before, established franchise can almost skip going to media outlet, official youtube channel, twitter, etc. Now a critical eye will question the legitimacy of official outlet as nothing more than marketing, but if there's no other media outlet to swing either way it becomes the only source of information. That is the favorable coverage vs exposure part for publisher. It is a game of balance and a tug o war. Also in an alternate universe it is just as easy to picture a handful of mega-corp media outlets that control almost all viewer base and publishers will need to pay tribute to even get any exposures or worse...and we'll be singing a different tune.
...0... Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 I've found it fairly difficult to get any solid information on what this whole thing is about. Sources range from 'lass makes a review, lads flip their shit' to 'feminazi types nonsense, gamers unite through death threats'. What I've been able to garner as a result of sifting through the ol' net, is that there's some woman whom made a couple of reviews. Folk being deplorable and the like, having found a target they can use to sate their aggression, have been making death and rape threats, as well creating feminazi strawmen. Far as I'm concerned, we're just seeing humans displaying their fused chromosome; the two bases which fused to differentiate the homo sapien from the chimpanzee. Aggression and verbal degredation is standard fare; what is perhaps just as despicable as that, is how people defend the folk attacking the woman. It makes absolutely no sense. But yeah. Humans being humans; belittling and threatening other humans. Fuckin' depressing. Well said.
...0... Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 You guys are really out of touch with how much people expose themselves online. A lot and they don't realise it now but they will pay for it painfully in the future.
...0... Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 The great masses of people don't know anything about it, and in the minority that do, most of them don't really care. Ain't that the truth.
Guest corespore Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 I've been watching this from day one closely, mostly for entertainment value. I've been more surprised that there were so many people who cared more about gaming then i did. And that's on both sides, the people who are defending them so much and the ones who honestly think it is the downfall of humanity. From what i can tell they are both willing to burn down the fort to keep the other side from occupying it as the saying goes. In the end if the gaming journalists sites hadn't tried so hard to censor the Zoe Quinn story it would have died off completely in days and if gamers stopped validating the belligerent ranting of the SJW's and journalists they would get bored and stop talking. This whole thing has become a self-feeding fire. The more one side rants the more it ratchets up the other, who inturn gets even more crazed thus making the whole thing a little more mad and unnecessary. Both sides had good points at the beginning but at this point it's degraded into a name calling contest with no real goal or valid reasons anymore. I still think many of the GG supporters should keep up the fight, they really have nothing to lose at this point except stopping the SJW's from shitting on one less thing. But why these anit-GG people still keep fighting when they know it's been over for them for sometime is a bit beyond me, afterall, how many of you guys still plan on being a regular at places like Kotaku and Gawker if you even bothered to be part of those communities in the first place?
RitualClarity Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 I've been watching this from day one closely, mostly for entertainment value LOL..
prideslayer Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I've been watching this from day one closely, mostly for entertainment valueLOL..
Guest corespore Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 ^ the fuuuuuuu. I may have laughed a bit to hard at that one.
Guest corespore Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Just going to leave this little gem for you guys to ponder over. http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/
Dr. Thang Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Just going to leave this little gem for you guys to ponder over. http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/ Wow, I put up with worse "harassment" than that on an average day in high school. I love this meme.
RitualClarity Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 ^ the fuuuuuuu. I may have laughed a bit to hard at that one. 1413947907605.gif Yep, that was more entertaining than this gamergate is. Probably more remember-able as well.
Guest Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Well on reflection, I think we should all go down the Winchester, have a nice cold pint and wait for all this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
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