Yami X Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 GrimReaper, on 07 Nov 2014 - 09:22 AM, said: Publishers usually rely on analyzing the market, not on reviews from wannabe journalists. There is no ehtics involved here, games that sell get copied over and over again with the occasional attempt to make it even more profitable. Publishers and developers don't want to make good games, they want to make games that make a lot of money. And if you make more money by releasing the same game every year than trying to establish a new IP or god forbid doing something really innovative, why bother? Can't blame then. If you could make the most money by selling your feces in a paper bag why do anything else? I'd say that popular mainstream games get good scores because they are popular mainstream games. They're not popular because they get good scores. The poor quality of gaming journalism (doesn't feel right to write that without quotes) is merely a symptom, not the cause. Two of those things in that reply are not like the other and anyone with a functional brain already knows it's a symptom but that doesn't mean it's should be ignored or be given a damn pass. How should I put this? It seems like people like to go on about how in the end it's all about the money like it isn't obvious. We all know almost every business is the problem here is with the money came greed and corruption with started becoming extremely noticeable in Gen 7. DLC was good in theory look at how that turned out,Micro-transactions,Season passes,Online passes hell the list goes on and why was this being done? Heh to try sustain an insatiable industry with insane budgets no one asked for and that within itself is a huge problem.You said a youtuber said the gaming industry is full of people who are not interested or don't understand the hobby yes that is indeed true. So with that said if they are anything like these people we're dealing now they must be purged as well.You said publishers and developers don't want to make good games they want to make games that make money that much is true for the publishers not so much the developers they also want to make good games that makes money both are possible and even if what you said applied to some developers then what are they still doing in the industry? Bring in some passionate new blood. See this is my problem with people they like to just think things like this are acceptable when it's clearly............not and is one of the reasons gamergate spawned in the first place. People were simply fed up and this is where journalism comes in like the rest of this forsaken industry the corruption was apparent and has been for years.The game "journalist' only had one job to do and that was give an accurate review of whatever game they're reviewing at the moment but instead what we get is (What's the most positive BS I can come up with so once my review get's averaged in with the other positive BS reviews dev A,B or C can get bonuses) so now you know a reason for why plenty of people are trying to abolish the scoring system altogether or in the case of a certain dev slept around so a non-game can get positive reviews lol simply put enough is enough. GrimReaper, on 07 Nov 2014 - 11:21 AM, said: Every boycott failed because it never happened in the first place. Boycott-Modern-Warfare-2.jpg lol it seems to me like you have a defeatist attitude and that's not even remotely gg the shit's been going in for months.
Guest corespore Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 This whole thing was going to happen at some point. There's been far too much Bull-Crap going on for there not to be some serious fallout at some point. The problem (only in my opinion) is that many people keep trying to distill this down to a single issue such as journalistic integrity or harassment when those were basically the straws that broke the camels back. Nobody would have given a damn if it was just those things but the fact it's those things atop a solid decade of corruption within the industry that seems to hate the consumer base a little more every year. Most people can overlook a single insult from another person but when there's nothing but insults coming from that person it's only a matter of time before they say or do something back. This is basically what the entire games industry has done to the gaming community for a while now, it just happens that the journalist were the ones to push it a bit to far and are now catching the worst of the gamers rage, they deserve some of it for being such shit-heads but most of the vitriol they are now choking on was being saved up on behalf of game devs and publishers as well. But when the dev and publishers saw how pissed the consumer base really was they did they smart thing and kept their mouths shut. The gaming journalist community wanted to be the center of this controversy and now they are, guess it goes to show that sometimes the worst thing that can happen is sometimes your wishes really do come true. They wanted a big-ole-bite of this shit sandwich and now they got it
Nergui Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Saw this on Escapist. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138478-Blizzard-CEO-Mike-Morhaime-Speaks-Out-on-GamerGate Developers and publishers are aware of what is happening. I agree with the others, gaming journalism isn't nearly as influential as people would believe. The infomation flow has many sources and paths.
Derpakiin Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 GrimReaper, on 07 Nov 2014 - 11:21 AM, said: Every boycott failed because it never happened in the first place. Boycott-Modern-Warfare-2.jpg lol it seems to me like you have a defeatist attitude and that's not even remotely gg the shit's been going in for months. That's not even remotely GG because GG's focused on blaming other people other than themselves for their own shortcomings when buying games. There are still hundreds if not thousands of other small time independent reviewers who do games reviews for free with no links to game devs, but they are conveniently ignored by GG's because they are too damn lazy to find them outside of Kotaku and Gamespot. If someone came up to me complaining about corruption in the media and I find out that they are watching Fox news as their only source of information, I'd give them a slap for being retarded.
Derpakiin Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 lol Derpakiin I'm not gonna feed you. Because arguing that being self-responsible, well informed and well researched on your games before buying them is somehow trolling. You guys are so invested in your crackpot extremist agendas that you can't even comprehend a neutral and rational approach to this. Get out.
Guest corespore Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 lol Derpakiin I'm not gonna feed you. Click on your profile avatar pic Click "edit my profile" top right Click ignore preferences Type their name into "add a new user to my list" Click ignore, posts, signatures, and messages boxes Click save changes ......... Profit
Yami X Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 never interfere with an poster while he’s in the process of destroying himself. @corespore nah I don't ignore people I'm friendly hehe.. meh.... @Derp Here's the thing your whole argument is don't blame game journalism blame yourselves which has fuck all to do with anything since literally everything you said doesn't even remotely apply to me like...at all. I was one of those gamers saying how the consumer was also part of the problem for years now like so many others and vote with your wallet look where that got us I'll give you a hint no where. Plus I actually stuck to my word about not buying games from EA,Capcom and the like who was intent on fucking the consumer.So excuse me if I don't wan't to buy the bullshit bridge you trying to sell me. While at the same time clearly not even knowing what the hell you're even talking about and since you like assumptions before gg started you were probably one of It's optional! you don't have to buy it types and one of the reasons why this happened in the first place GG are probably the very people that are tired of the shit you were posting about think about that before you post oh holy one...........
Derpakiin Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 never interfere with an poster while he’s in the process of destroying himself. @corespore nah I don't ignore people I'm friendly hehe.. meh.... @Derp Here's the thing your whole argument is don't blame game journalism blame yourselves which has fuck all to do with anything since literally everything you said doesn't even remotely apply to me like...at all. I was one of those gamers saying how the consumer was also part of the problem for years now like so many others and vote with your wallet look where that got us I'll give you a hint no where. Plus I actually stuck to my word about not buying games from EA,Capcom and the like who was intent on fucking the consumer.So excuse me if I don't wan't to buy the bullshit bridge you trying to sell me. While at the same time clearly not even knowing what the hell you're even talking about and since you like assumptions before gg started you were probably one of It's optional! you don't have to buy it types and one of the reasons why this happened in the first place GG are probably the very people that are tired of the shit you were posting about think about that before you post oh holy one........... Your idea that because you've tried something and therefore didn't work is a flawed one. It's like saying I've tried recycling but it doesn't help improve the environment because global warming is still getting worse. The issue is because there's not enough people practicing it and it doesn't disprove the indisputable fact that reducing your carbon footprint reduces the damage to the environment. The consumer is still part of the problem precisely because there's not enough of them practicing proper purchasing techniques. If everyone practiced intelligent purchasing choices and devs still made bad games then I'll agree that it doesn't work, but the fact of the matter is that there was never a large enough number of gamers who do this and they are still insisting on blaming others rather than change their spending habits. If you're tired of EA and Capcom screwing you over, then you should be making a movement against the companies screwing you over. I don't understand why devs and publishers are getting a free pass from GG while they're focusing on journalism when you say that they both collaborate in the same 'crime'. You're cherry picking who to blame and it conveniently and disproportionately lies on the easiest scapegoat, journalists. They never have as much influence over the gaming industry as compared to the raw cash out of the collective pockets of gamers.
Yami X Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Look we can keep pointing out the obvious all day. We are going to be simply wasting each others time .You don't seem to get you're not telling me anything new what you just told me I have said to others so in that regard you're wasting your breath. Also I didn't give anyone a pass I mean that the was the entire point of me saying the one's guilty of such things should be purged or out of the industry .The only person who seems to be giving people a pass is yourself in regards to gaming journalism because you're under the impression that it has no bearing on the industry which is simply not true.
Derpakiin Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Look we can keep pointing out the obvious all day. We are going to be simply wasting each others time .You don't seem to get you're not telling me anything new what you just told me I have said to others so in that regard you're wasting your breath. Also I didn't give anyone a pass I mean that the was the entire point of me saying the one's guilty of such things should be purged or out of the industry .The only person who seems to be giving people a pass is yourself in regards to gaming journalism because you're under the impression that it has no bearing on the industry which is simply not true. The fact that I had to spell this out to you about consumer responsibility means that it wasn't apparently obvious to you in the first place. In fact you were arguing against it the whole way, so I'm not convinced you found any of it obvious until I pointed it out to you. This isn't a witch hunt and you can't seem to place devs, journalists, and consumers in the proper order of importance of who affects the industry the most. Here, let me make it easier for you: 1. Consumer - Has the money and has the influence to make a game successful or fail. Controls entire fates of kickstarter projects and determine if games like Skyrim become a commercial success. 2. Devs & publishers - Has the ability to make games and aggressively market the game to get consumers interested. 3. Journalists - Reviews the game. May or may not be objective. Remember the video game crash of 1983? It's because of consumers getting tired of the trash devs put out. They boycotted the games and the industry had to start from scratch, with a new golden age of quality video games where we get our timeless classics from. You don't need journalists doing that work for you. Gamers just need educated discipline.
Yami X Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 ............ I give a you a fair shake so you can only prove to me that you are indeed trolling and it's not helping you're showing all the symptoms of a sjw in the sense that no matter how one says something you'll continue spewing your bullshit no matter what while completely missing the point so yeah.......get bent I'm done talking to you. With all that's said and done I think the the movement might just be a push in the right direction.So we won't have to deal with this level of bullshit in the future.Either that or a second gaming crash at this point it makes no difference to me.I'm not going be called a misogynist,harasser cis white male for simply not lying down and taking it while letting someone spin a narrative to cover up bs sorry no can do.
windpl Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Remember the video game crash of 1983? It's because of consumers getting tired of the trash devs put out. They boycotted the games and the industry had to start from scratch, with a new golden age of quality video games where we get our timeless classics from. You don't need journalists doing that work for you. Gamers just need educated discipline. Now that's total bullshit.
Alva Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 The fact that the gaming industry has so much power over the "review" industry *alone* is enough to never trust commercial review sites to begin with. In almost all other industries such a connection would be frowned upon when discovered because those industries do their best to hide that power - yet often still fail. When it comes to the gaming industry many still have this speparate set of morals and ideals than any other industry and my guess is it still stems from the "gaming is for nerds and geeks that should grow up and get a life" type inferiority complex when viewed as a large. Nobody would accept if you bought a shirt and were expected to pay extra to get the sleeves on day one release of the shirt. Yes yes I know - a shirt is not a digital bla bla bla.Take music then - you get 2/3s of a number and have to buy the missing parts as a digital download pack. And yes I know - games are not music and bla bla bla. The point is that computer gamers consumers have over the latter couple of years more or less willingly accepted a worse and worse product. And of course the fault is the consumers - he should just not buy that product and live without.However from the point of view of a single consumer - it's very often "but my decision will change nothing, and conclusion will only be I have no product".If all consumers got together - then yes, many of these companies would have been run out of business. Bioware wouldn't have existed after DA2 and ME3. Bethesda might produce complete games that does not rely on a modding market to make interesting and so on. However - consumers cannot get together like this. That's why consumers rely on the integrity of the "press" (yes yes, I know gaming journalism is not the press bla bla bla) which indeed could put this pressure on the gaming industry on behalf of the consumers if they were willing to. But because game reviews are an industry on their own, and reviews leading to many clicks, leading to advert money - then this industry will not bite the hand that feeds them and that hand is not the consumer, but the game developers.Don't review our games well? You get no advanced copy. You get no invite to special events. You get no beta invite.Review our games to our liking? And you get all you want because it costs us nothing. Personally - I cannot blame either part in that equation because I do think consumers should exercise their "no buy" or "wait for bargin bin" right. And now with kickstarter and a larger rise of indie development we can much easier express our approval or disapproval and directly influence developers wallets.The gaming press does not exists for the players. It exists for the producers and exists for themselves. However - that by no means mean that the gaming press shouldn't be critiqued hard - heck even ridiculed when they repost last years review for a new game and praise this year as the best ever and shown to be the sheep they are. Because they do hold a lot of possibility to actually change the industry if they so wanted.
FauxFurry Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Something about this Gamergate/Anti-Gamergate situation seems awfully familiar. If only I could place a finger on it. Wait a tick. I can and I'll use it to type up a link. http://youtu.be/0QLz0CqtMVc and this: http://youtu.be/BwD2GgWKIrs People say that the Internet has a long memory,but I guess that people forgot about that phrase already.
nonusnomeni Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 internet indeed have long memory unfortunately peoples don't
RitualClarity Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 internet indeed have long memory unfortunately peoples don't I had a witty comment in reply to your post ... however I seem to have forgotten it
27X Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Something about this Gamergate/Anti-Gamergate situation seems awfully familiar. If only I could place a finger on it. Wait a tick. I can and I'll use it to type up a link. http://youtu.be/0QLz0CqtMVc and this: http://youtu.be/BwD2GgWKIrs People say that the Internet has a long memory,but I guess that people forgot about that phrase already. You realize BWE is SJW central in the gaming creation community and has been for almost a decade, right? David Gaider has stated in public and on his blog he literally hates his own customers. As in hates, not dislikes, not does share the opinion of, but outright hates. Why anyone would financially empower someone who literally despises their own customers is rather headscratching. He also took Hepler leaving personally. You'll recall in addition to her gaming statements, Hepler also stated that stuff like Narnia and Lord of the Rings were "garbage" because they were written by "old white dudes". GG is over 25 years old. Consumers have been dealing with "journalist" media (aka blogging or the temporal equivalent aka fanzine) since there were only three gaming magazines in the united states with national print runs. Die Hard Game Fan publisher Dave Halverson was forced to sell his game selling business because the reviews in his magazine for those same games on special at his store, especially the super expensive import ones from Japan, were always suspiciously high and some readers finally had enough and got the California government involved. The first of the big three magazines to fold was Video Games and Computer Entertainment, and the reason they folded is they refused to pay for cheat codes, and they stopped covering computer games because computer games were "too adult and not exciting". So, in addition to shooting themselves in the foot on a market, they also refused to play ball with companies like Capcom and Midway, unlike Gamepro, whom not only payed for codes (which was the primary reason to get a mag in those days in the first place from the target audience) but had an editorial policy to never give a game a bad review, aka blatant collusion. The magazine to make it big out of these forerunners was Electronic Gaming Monthly. The reason they made it big was they forged under the table buddy alliances with several companies directly, namely Midway and Namco and Konami; while GamePro got really friendly with Capcom. Consequently, by chumming up with favors/payola/actual annual escort service accounts and no I'm not kidding to these companies, they got exclusives and cheat codes before anyone else in most cases, and there are also rumors that Steve Harris (the owner of EGM) was also using the mag as a laundering mule for the Chicago Mob; while these allegations were never proven, it is curious that A EGM became the size of a telephone book while others mags were shrinking due to print costs, and B out of most US magazines at the time, no other magazine had as many staffers go directly into the games industry as "consultants" or marketers after they left the magazine's employ. Curious. While the issues of feminism can't be ignored, and Biscuit is flat out wrong when he says political and gender issues have nothing to do with what goes on behind the scenes, primarily because he refuses to deal with these companies on a personal level, that games "journalism" is a self perpetuating joke is not even really up for questioning.
Guest corespore Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Something about this Gamergate/Anti-Gamergate situation seems awfully familiar. If only I could place a finger on it. Wait a tick. I can and I'll use it to type up a link. http://youtu.be/0QLz0CqtMVc and this: http://youtu.be/BwD2GgWKIrs People say that the Internet has a long memory,but I guess that people forgot about that phrase already. The crazy shit is that you could just change the dates and nobody could tell it apart from what's going on right now.
Cynical Misanthrope Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Remember the video game crash of 1983? It's because of consumers getting tired of the trash devs put out. They boycotted the games and the industry had to start from scratch, with a new golden age of quality video games where we get our timeless classics from. You don't need journalists doing that work for you. Gamers just need educated discipline. Now that's total bullshit. Well, it's both true and false. I wasn't really a part of that era (in fact, I were only 3 years old in '83), but it's true, the market were flooded (or shall we say Saturated?) with games. Many corporations, (those focusing on other products than games, like food, plastic, gasoline... You name it) saw they could make money, so quite alot of em, started to spit out shitty shallowed games. There were other several reasons for the crash as well, but the main cause was saturation of the market.
Yami X Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Yeah everyone likes to say that it was ET that was the last straw lol.
Cynical Misanthrope Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Yeah everyone likes to say that it was ET that was the last straw lol. 1st rule: You do not talk about E.T 2nd rule: You do not talk about E.T. 3rd rule: You do not talk about E.T
Dr. Thang Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 That's it, I'm blaming gamergate on Ride to Hell. It all comes down to that when you don't think about it.
Guest corespore Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Yeah everyone likes to say that it was ET that was the last straw lol. 1st rule: You do not talk about E.T 2nd rule: You do not talk about E.T. 3rd rule: You do not talk about E.T I used to own and play "the game that shall not be mentioned", I Haaaaaated it. Of course back then it was tanks, pong, or the....... forbidden game.
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