Devious Devices - Expansion

[Zaflis]

36 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Also, can you put HDT Physics Extensions and XPMS Skeleton as requirements for the DD framework?

I've gotten a bunch of reports from people that their game crashed when my mod equipped Prisoner Chains, which is something that happens when you're missing those requirements.

Just pulling straws here, but even Cursed Loot info mixes XPMS while actually linking XPMSE   The 2 shouldn't be mixed.

Quote

XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended is a completely redone version of "XP32 Maximum Skeleton - XPMS" by xp32, for the HDT Physics Plugins

But yeah i'm not sure how many of the mods should be needed to mention in Cursed Loot (or in your shop) anyway. XPMSE, Bodyslide, HDT Physics Extensions, RaceMenu, Body... propably all those are required by DD itself yet not mentioned in DD. Where goes the line between what should be mentioned by end mods or when it's enough for "...And all DD-Expansion requirements".

[Mr Technician]

I hereby disagree in that. In explanation: you can start installing DDa, DDi, DDx in whichever sequence you think is a ok - to your MO. If you install all of them to MO - would be no problems. There's no difference to install process as long as MO is keeping them all in a different folders. And user can do LOOT always to autosort plugin load order - after installation.

 

So all of them should mention exact req. No exceptions. But what funny is - none of above mention "HDT Physics Extension" in description, requirement section, first page.

 

Why to have outfit items in Bodyslide named like that:

DDX - UUNP - CustomHarness(HDT)

 

People will think like: "Oooh! HDT! i'm building that outfit! well it seems to be High Definition Textures!", right? Nooo... It's totaly not what it means at all. And in reality is nothing more than a short name from author: HydrogensaysHDT mod named "HDT Physics Extensions" (for Skyrim Legendary Edition).

 

So used naming is misleading newcomers...

 

Second thing: filter Outfit items by name in Bodyslide by "chain" keyword. It doesn't even have (HDT) in name...

 

Result: User thinks that he or she have installed everything ok. Because has got HDT already, right? Nooo... Because no "HDT Physics Extension" SKSE mod was actually installed by user.

[worik]

2 hours ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

How about making rope coils for every colour as equippable armor. When you equip the rope coil, you'll get a menu to choose which variant of rope restraint you want.

After you chose one, the coil will be removed and you'll get the restraint you chose. And when you later remove it without cutting it. the coil will be added to your inventory again.

It's probably a lot of work, but it would be really neat.

Hereby, and from the bottom of my heart, I formally endorse this idea ? ?

[Mr Technician]

1 hour ago, worik said:

Hereby, and from the bottom of my heart, I formally endorse this idea ? ?

Ofc i do agree to - idea seems cool! 

[Rogwar002]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, piotsze said:

I hereby disagree in that. In explanation: you can start installing DDa, DDi, DDx in whichever sequence you think is a ok - to your MO. If you install all of them to MO - would be no problems. There's no difference to install process as long as MO is keeping them all in a different folders. And user can do LOOT always to autosort plugin load order - after installation.

 

So all of them should mention exact req. No exceptions. But what funny is - none of above mention "HDT Physics Extension" in description, requirement section, first page.

 

Why to have outfit items in Bodyslide named like that:

DDX - UUNP - CustomHarness(HDT)

 

People will think like: "Oooh! HDT! i'm building that outfit! well it seems to be High Definition Textures!", right? Nooo... It's totaly not what it means at all. And in reality is nothing more than a short name from author: HydrogensaysHDT mod named "HDT Physics Extensions" (for Skyrim Legendary Edition).

 

So used naming is misleading newcomers...

 

Second thing: filter Outfit items by name in Bodyslide by "chain" keyword. It doesn't even have (HDT) in name...

 

Result: User thinks that he or she have installed everything ok. Because has got HDT already, right? Nooo... Because no "HDT Physics Extension" SKSE mod was actually installed by user.

 

(if first post thread can't be re-edited - than new forum thread, simple)

If you use Bodyslide, you have to use XPMSE. If you use XPMSE you have to use HDT.

Why bother with requirements already part of your setup if you want to install this mod?

I hereby disagree.

If people are to stupid to RTFM, nobody can help. I´m the last one to deny to help someone who read the manual and has a question to a specific problem.

Sometimes I have questions, too. I´m not the brightest candle on the cake, but still I can read and understand the rule of the words: "...and all of its requirements"

[Mr Technician]

19 minutes ago, Rogwar002 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

If you use Bodyslide, you have to use XPMSE. If you use XPMSE you have to use HDT.

Why bother with requirements already part of your setup if you want to install this mod?

I hereby disagree.

If people are to stupid to RTFM, nobody can help. I´m the last one to deny to help someone who read the manual and has a question to a specific problem.

Sometimes I have questions, too. I´m not the brightest candle on the cake, but still I can read and understand the rule of the words: "...and all of its requirements"

Hm, well seems You are right, i am right... Yeah. That may not change anything i suppose. Seems that only one thing unfortunate was the name of creator of Physics Extensions naming it somehow HDT... Duh. Newcomers will come no matter what.

[ArrowAriel]

Hi,

Please help me figure out a glitch with this mod. After I BodySlide the items for the UUNP-HDT-UNP type body, after equipping, I 've got connecting metallic rings not displayed for Black Ebon. Chastity Harness and Black Ebon. Slave Harness. The leather stripes are displayed correctly. Only the metallic rings disappear. At the same time the Black Ebon. Harness (Unlocked) is displayed correctly. The .nif files for both types of harnesses are the same, I suppose. Cross-exchange of .nif files and -go files between the harnesses does not help. Basically, when I take the .nif files of the "Black Ebon. Harness (Unlocked)" and rename them to be as for "Black Ebon. Chastity Harness" and "Black Ebon. Slave Harness", they start glitching. According to NifScope, the .nif files are ok and contain the rings, it is just they disappear when I equip the harnesses. Any help is appreciated.

[PurpieSlurpie]

On 10/9/2019 at 5:45 PM, Zaflis said:

Minimal guide:

  Hide contents

 

If you build with a HDT body, you need HDTExtensions mod too. Some DD items require HDT to look right, chains and tail plugs etc. Also XPMSE skeleton file.

 

I mean, a lot of people use group filters. It's ok practise but not for people new to Bodyslide. There's a bigger chance you mess something up using filters. You have to build all items at least once in any case after they are installed, or if you change your body preset. Some mods may also have files in several different filter groups + some in the "Unassigned" group. You'd have to select all of them.

Ohhh! How do I get to that point though? I installed bodyslide using a mod manager, should I have just done it manually? I don't know where to go to do that

edit: I found it in the files, do I just select what I have and click "build", then?

[SullenMan]

there are problems with animations that change the player’s movements (armbinder and others) after loading save or change the location of the hand and body play standard animations.
can anybody give advice on how to fix this?

[Mr Technician]

1 hour ago, sudoshywolf said:

Ohhh! How do I get to that point though? I installed bodyslide using a mod manager, should I have just done it manually? I don't know where to go to do that

edit: I found it in the files, do I just select what I have and click "build", then?

One guy yet simply cannot explain everything what you need to know how to do things. This is a list of knowledge at YT i have found to be the best from the best.

1. Instructions from Gopher on Mod Organizer 1 - very cool, very long descriptional video materials

2. Instructions from GamerPoets on Mod Organizer 2 - short, sweet, informational videos

3. Instructions from Tonyo Allie on Skyrim SE & Mod Organizer 2 - walktrough, installation tutorials

[PurpieSlurpie]

10 hours ago, piotsze said:

One guy yet simply cannot explain everything what you need to know how to do things. This is a list of knowledge at YT i have found to be the best from the best.

1. Instructions from Gopher on Mod Organizer 1 - very cool, very long descriptional video materials

2. Instructions from GamerPoets on Mod Organizer 2 - short, sweet, informational videos

3. Instructions from Tonyo Allie on Skyrim SE & Mod Organizer 2 - walktrough, installation tutorials

Thank you so much for all of your help ❤️ I'll take a look at those!

[GuruSR]

00x011c7a:  "<Missing Name>" in the effects tab in SkyUI (meaning there isn't a title for the spell)  It's causing "Sneak Penalty".

 

GuruSR.

[MrMagoo]

I have a problem with invisible DD items in-game that I hope someone can help with please..

 

As far as I can tell this isn't related to Bodyslide outfit building. All items that build in bodyslide - as far as I can see - show up correctly.

 

The problem is with some variants of the items that don't build in bodyslide. Certain flavours of blindfold / gag / collar (and one or two other items) simply show as invisible in-game. They "work" - i.e. exist in inventory, apply the appropriate effects etc but simply can't be seen.

 

To elaborate further they are invisible in inventory (item name is present but no image shows for item) as well as when worn or dropped in the world. As far as I can tell I can't even find the "invisible" item to click on and pick back up after dropping.

 

I can't find any clear logic to the pattern of what will / won't show but the clearest example is this;

 

Ebonite - white/black/red etc - these show fine. Gags, blindfolds, collars.

Leather - white/black/red - these items do not show for gags, blindfolds or collars but they do show correctly for the items that are built in bodyslide.

 

Another example;

 

Iron Yoke - invisible, Steel Yoke - visible.

 

 

I've tried running with only DD mods + requirements as well as a full reinstall of DD mods.

 

 

This is on UUNP body if that may be relevant.

 

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Thanks,

[Mr Technician]

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

I have a problem with invisible DD items in-game that I hope someone can help with please..

This will take minutes, hours, or maybe even days. Because every people config seems to be different somehow.

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

As far as I can tell this isn't related to Bodyslide outfit building. All items that build in bodyslide - as far as I can see - show up correctly.

Bodyslide launched from Mod Organizer at preview window will always show: body type mesh with texture of female body, mesh and textures of items. No matter what body Preset you have used. If it is showing you correctly all items - that means Skyrim should also find this textures and meshes. But...

Bodyslide as a program doesn't care much about SKSE plugins (ie: HDT Physics Extension), game plugins - like other mods, it doesn't care about Load Order of your plugins (other mods). It will show any mesh with correct textures - if could find it. If Bodyslide doesn't find textures it will show "no image" texture at Preview window of item or body... Like that:

Spoiler

 

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

The problem is with some variants of the items that don't build in bodyslide. Certain flavours of blindfold / gag / collar (and one or two other items) simply show as invisible in-game. They "work" - i.e. exist in inventory, apply the appropriate effects etc but simply can't be seen.

In bodyslide you have "Groups". You select them by a magnifier and check all group names that begins with "DDX " word, like that:

Spoiler

 

You are writing about "Certain flavours" item. I think you should name it. Rope Items. This is already reported as a bug. You can read it here (couple of bugs):

Spoiler

 

 

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

To elaborate further they are invisible in inventory (item name is present but no image shows for item) as well as when worn or dropped in the world. As far as I can tell I can't even find the "invisible" item to click on and pick back up after dropping.

Read above "bugs". However i have found bugs - i'm not the creator of mod. So no ETA on time when this will be fixed or new version will arrive.

 

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

I can't find any clear logic to the pattern of what will / won't show but the clearest example is this;

 

Ebonite - white/black/red etc - these show fine. Gags, blindfolds, collars.

Leather - white/black/red - these items do not show for gags, blindfolds or collars but they do show correctly for the items that are built in bodyslide.

I can find multiple logics here and there, first one is... You shall not choose to build ones while not building another outfits. You need to build all items - by groups - in Bodyslide for your preffered body preset you are using by "BATCH BUILD" with "Build Morphs" option checked in - it will not be checked after you start or close and restart Bodyslide. Each time you start bodyslide - you need to check this options when building Outfits to Body.

When it is off - it will not generate .TRI extension files - which are used by RaceMenu - in a skyrim console: showracemenu. And after changing sliders by "showracemenu" in game if there are no .TRI file generated - Skyrim will not change object dimensions - to the point when there will be clipping, or items simply could dissapear from your view - on your body.

Second logic here... make sure that when using Wrye Smash / Wrye Bash to make "Bashed Patch" and placing it as last in your Load Order it actually didn't pointed to a different mod meshes. I don't want to make an elaborate here or to sound like a smart-a** here. So for that purpose i will point you to my comment at BD-UUNP Armor and Clothes Replacer - to nexus, for viewing my comment - which has been Sticked - about some armor parts being invisible and why it happens. The same logic is usable to any other mods. Even this one. Also can see it here:

Spoiler

 

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

Another example;

 

Iron Yoke - invisible, Steel Yoke - visible.

Same as above being said. Or if you play on Intel HD Graphics - not using Nvidia or AMD graphics cards - there is a program called HiAlgoBoost which if using - seems to boost FPS but it can lead to problems with items not being shown in game. Some users also reported that it made some items invisible for them. Same may apply to any other third party FPS booster apps.

I was also able to find very old bug that in Skyrim made items invisible:

Spoiler

 

Maybe it is worth to try to see if this solves your problem.

 

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

I've tried running with only DD mods + requirements as well as a full reinstall of DD mods.

This is on UUNP body if that may be relevant.

You didn't mention what SKSE plugins do you use. One of the requirement which can be non intuitive is to install "HDT Physics Extensions". Do you also have installed "XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended" and choose to use "Physics Extension" (like in the spoiler)? This is for Skyrim Legendary Edition only. Not for Skyrim Special Edition.

Spoiler

 

21 hours ago, MrMagoo said:

Any ideas?

Yes. Even one more at this time which might be helpfull here if you have changed anything in Devious Devices MCM menu. This is Item Hider. Maybe it is worth to try and see if you forgot to hide/unhide items there. That might be a reason in some cases:

Spoiler

 

 

EDIT: I'm commenting in this post because want to help. But also anybody else reading this - must need to see - how hard it may be actually to solve one simple problem. And how much there is to learn about everything before trying to do this...

I could just go into game and make screenshots or even the video material proving that all works as it should. And that i have no of above problems mentioned, right? But what would be the point of that? Also it shall show existing bugs - to be fair and square... ?

 

@MrMagoo - try to use some of this solutions. Maybe some of it will help you. Good Luck.

[MrMagoo]

@piotsze

 

Thanks for the reply and suggestions Unfortunately I don't think any of these things is the cause although of course I could be wrong - I've put details below on the suggestions you made.

 

Just to be clear everything shows up fine in Bodyslide it is only in-game where I have problems. Also the items that don't show are not causing part of my body to disappear as incorrectly installed mods sometimes do but simply are not visible. So if my char is wearing e.g. a white leather gag, blindfold & collar she will appear to be completely normal.

 

On to your suggestions;
 

Spoiler

 

Bodyslide - These particular items that I have issues with are all items that do not have a bodyslide entry so I don't think the problem can be related to incorrect building of outfits etc. Additionally all items that do build in bodyslide seem to show up and fit my body shape fine so I think the building has gone correctly.

 

Bashed patch - I think I have done my patch correctly but in any case the problem occurs on a testing setup with just DD mods + requirements and no bashed patch as well.

 

GFX - I'm using Nvidia GFX and no special FPS programs or anything just default Nvidia drivers and software.

 

archiveinvalidation - I was getting my hopes up when I saw that video you linked as I don't remember the last time I set this up but it is already all correctly there in my skyrim.ini. Also in this particular video the body is becoming invisible on the bugged mod which is different to my situation.

 

SKSE plugins / XPMSE - I have tried with and without HDT physics extension as well as with and without XPMSE (my default setup is with both).

 

Device Hider - Yes I thought this might be the problem too but everything seemed fine there even before re-install and have tried with device hider disabled and still getting the same thing.

 

 

 

I guess I was hoping someone might have experienced this or something similar before - I understand that, like you say, it's difficult to impossible to remotely diagnose.

 

One question I have for those in the know with DD mods is this;

 

Is there any specific "difference" between say a white leather collar and a white ebonite collar?

This would give me a direction for my efforts to diagnose.

 

I've tried looking at the ESP files and checking but can't see any differences apart from:

1. the specific texture paths - I went through my mod folders and all the textures it's looking for seem to be present.
2. the exact colour - there is a string which I assume to be a colour code and that is slightly different for a leather vs an ebonite item.

 

I haven't tried changing that colour string as it doesn't seem likely to be relevant since if that was causing it then it would presumably be a very common and already identified / resolved bug.

[Mr Technician]

29 minutes ago, MrMagoo said:

Is there any specific "difference" between say a white leather collar and a white ebonite collar?

This would give me a direction for my efforts to diagnose.

 

I've tried looking at the ESP files and checking but can't see any differences apart from:

1. the specific texture paths - I went through my mod folders and all the textures it's looking for seem to be present.
2. the exact colour - there is a string which I assume to be a colour code and that is slightly different for a leather vs an ebonite item.

 

I haven't tried changing that colour string as it doesn't seem likely to be relevant since if that was causing it then it would presumably be a very common and already identified / resolved bug.

Congratulations - you were more specific this time - and i think you have officially found a bug (not showing on my character neck also). Not kidding. Now let we see who will find solution first...

 

[MrMagoo]

Oh really? That gives me hope!

 

I am playing around in esp files atm and think I am close to something...

 

BTW I did mention a few specific examples in my original post - for reference if you are interested here are the most obvious concrete examples:

 

Gags (ring and ball at least), blindfolds, simple collars (not including those that build in bodyslide)

 

Leather - red, white or black - not appearing for me

Ebonite - works fine

[Mr Technician]

Oh really, yes! I think that was a misleading on purpose, playing newbie... Saying this but thinking other... yeah...

[Mr Technician]

@MrMagoo Do you wanna know what i have found ? Look ...

Spoiler

 

Yaaaay! I won...  

 

Seems like something wrong in meshe... again... I just deleted "collarPostureLeather_go.nif" and replaced it with a copy of "collarPostureLeather.nif".

But seriously.

What we have already? Non visible Chain Collar, non visible Rope Items, and today - non visible Leather Collar items.

This needs to end somewhere. Because in the future we all will begin to bellieve in "ghosts"...

[MrMagoo]

Is that an item you fixed? Because that is one of the ones that is 'bugged' for me at least!

 

I also found something and managed to fix white leather blindfold by pointing the mesh to the ebonite .nif instead of the leather one.

 

Spoiler

 

Armor Addon - zadx_WTLblindfoldAA - changed from "Devious\Devices\blindfold01_go.nif" to "Devious\Expansion\BlindfEbonite.nif"  --> this fixes visibility on character

 

Armor - zadx_WTLblindfoldInventory - same change - this fixes visibility in inventory

 

 

Not sure whether this messes up the appearance of the item though and doesn't exactly constitute a proper explanation / fix...

 

 

 

Have you found a proper cause / fix?

 

EDIT - Ah I see nice so it is clearly the meshes! I like your fix better as it's much less fiddly

 

Now to try and work out which exact items are in the "bugged" list and replace all those meshes ^^

 

 

EDIT 2 - OK I just scrolled back a few pages and saw you have been finding a few of these type of things. So I think I need to apply those fixes you suggested previously before I start trying to catalogue which items are bugged for me!

[Mr Technician]

Yup, i think that you can make all fixes by yourself if using TES5Edit / NifSkope - but it will take some time. Especially with Rope Items - because there are many of them, and many new meshes... Actually - you can download Chain Collar meshes from my post. That was harder to fix for me - but it will work in your game... I actually fixed Chain Collar meshes using NifSkope editor. Was a beast to find this out, because i never did that earlier. ?

 

And the funny thing is when i saw your post i almost wanted to write to you: update your ENB because maybe it is not showing some colors as it should. But decided to check in-game what in the name of Nine Divines it is all about with those leather collars anyway... ^^

[MrMagoo]

Yes I downloaded your chain collar fix - thanks for that as I have no idea how to manipulate items in NifSkope... maybe one day I'll have to find out but glad you saved me the troubles The petsuit / rope items seems to be an inventory display bug only from what I saw in your post? That I can live with but wearing invisible devices not so much!

 

Your reply to my post kept me thinking about this and posting and led to the meshes as the issue so thanks again for that too!

 

I've just catalogued the items I'm aware of that are bugged for me and going to see how many I can fix here then will update again ^^

[MrMagoo]

@piotsze

I tried your suggestion of replacing xxxx_go.nif with xxxx.nif but unfortunately this doesn't seem to make any difference for me except in the case of the posture collar where it makes the item visible in inventory (not on character still for me so not sure why that is different to your experience).

 

These are the items I have found so far that are exhibiting this "invisible" behaviour for me;

 

Leather Armbinder (but not elbowbinder)

Leather Blindfold ('standard', custom and unlocked)

Leather Collar ('standard', harness and posture)

Leather Gag (Ball - harness & simple, Ring - harness & simple)

 

Iron Yoke

High Security Yoke (from Deviously Cursed Loot - using same mesh as Iron Yoke)

 

Steel Collar - Padded and Posture

Silver Collar - Padded and Posture

 

 

I've also noticed a common theme that all these meshes are actually part of devious device assets which I didn't think had changed in a long time so not sure what is going on here ^^

[Mr Technician]

Well... that might be both meshes can be bad. Omg. Do you have like BaseID FormID of them? Six last digits? xD

 

Investigated:

Black Leather Armbinder (but not elbowbinder) - works fine! 

Leather Blindfold ('standard', custom and unlocked) - (works fine, works fine, works fine)

Leather Collar ('standard', harness and posture) - (works fine, works fine, works fine)

Leather Gag (Ball - harness & simple, Ring - harness & simple) (works fine - works fine, works fine - works fine)

 

Iron Yoke - works fine

High Security Yoke (from Deviously Cursed Loot - using same mesh as Iron Yoke) - works fine

 

Steel Collar - Padded and Posture (works fine: "Steel Collar (Padded)" and works fine: "Steel Collar (Padded) (Posture)" )

Silver Collar - Padded and Posture (works fine: "Silver Collar (Padded)" and works fine: "Silver Collar (Padded) (Posture)" )

 

Checked all above. Now i need a coffee... ^^

 

*in explanation: works fine - means it shows in inventory also a model of it, and also when put on my character.

[MrMagoo]

You mean the base ID from the ESP for the items in armor addon and/or armor?

I haven't been looking at those so haven't noted them down but can give some examples;

 

Armor Addon

white leather armbinder - xx00f011

white leather blindfold - xx00f02d

white leather posture collar - xx00f063

 

Armor

white leather armbinder - xx00f013

white leather blindfold - xx00f02f

white leather blindfold (custom) - xx013350

white leather blindfold (unlocked) - xx013358

white leather collar (posture) - xx00f06a