Quick As You Like! (A Devious Adventure)

[jfraser]

FYI to all, I was going ahead with this whole process, and could not figure out how to get it to advance... only to realize I was armed with spells in my hands. That's apparently enough to identify as a weapon, so be sure you de-equip those in the process.

In that case, the SPERG unarmed thing might apply to this. Make sure unarmed is set to manual if you have SPERG.

[stobor]

 

...

 

This is kind of what I was getting at in regards to immersion breaking, the driver goes from dutiful and wanting to get the job done to just kind of saying "fuck it. I have nothing against plot, but the scene was wonky.

Fair comment.

 

What happens is that when the brand activates, the resulting rush of hyper arousal makes it impossible to offer more than token resistance. So there is an abrupt change in attitude there. Perhaps I need to explain that a bit better in the dialogue. Something else to think about...

 

The change in responses when the brand activated was pretty clear in my run-through, for what it is worth.

...

 

I got to the cart and after several discussions I finally agreed to the terms. I took off everything put it in the box and locked it. He asked if I took anything out I tried all three answers with no being the first(truth I didn't take anything my inventory consisted of the invitation and the key) but I could never move on. He always sent me back to put stuff in the chest. And there were no spectators.

He should be asking for the key back at that point. I wonder if you had any mods that used hidden tokens in your inventory? I used to get this problem with the invitation note blocking the scene from advancing, but that's not happened for a while now...

 

 

I had it stick at that point because I had spells equipped.  Or so I surmised, since it proceeded to take the key back, once I unequipped them.

 

[afa]

 

I didn't have khajiit, only have the stable workers and guards for the NPCs.

There was one comment on tattoo, something along the line of "what's with the tattoo" Don't know if it is suppose to go into more details than that. It happened early on and it went by sort of quickly; overlap by another dialog?

If you only got partial dialogue and what you got went by quickly, it might be a Fuz Do rah - silent voice issue. Do you have it installed?

 

Have it installed, the normal dialog with Bjorlam are fine, I would guess if I don't have Fuz ro Doh those would be mess up too.

It's just the "environmental" dialog that is suppose to be spoken by nearby NPCs while they are standing around occasionally overlaps each other so the text for the next one shows before the first one is finish. You sort of see that in vanilla game also. Don't know if there's anything that could be done about it or needs to be done if it is too much work.

 

Also the first time I see the branding is sort of after the scene with Bjorlam. I think only the old version of the mod has branding near the beginning of first quest.

[jfraser]

 

 

I didn't have khajiit, only have the stable workers and guards for the NPCs.

There was one comment on tattoo, something along the line of "what's with the tattoo" Don't know if it is suppose to go into more details than that. It happened early on and it went by sort of quickly; overlap by another dialog?

If you only got partial dialogue and what you got went by quickly, it might be a Fuz Do rah - silent voice issue. Do you have it installed?

 

Have it installed, the normal dialog with Bjorlam are fine, I would guess if I don't have Fuz ro Doh those would be mess up too.

It's just the "environmental" dialog that is suppose to be spoken by nearby NPCs while they are standing around occasionally overlaps each other so the text for the next one shows before the first one is finish. You sort of see that in vanilla game also. Don't know if there's anything that could be done about it or needs to be done if it is too much work.

 

It could be that the npc's doing the speaking are too far away. If they are more than twenty feet or so from you, you won't "hear" their dialogue.

[DocClox]

some mods give you quest items that cant be removed like darkinvestigations mod if you dont go to the dark elf housecarl in whiterun your stuck with a note in your inventory that cant be removed during darkinvestigations you get a whiterun gaurds signet ring which is quest only cant be given to allie cant be put into a chest maybe thats why he cant progress the inventation is quest only which cant be removed it could be clashing with his script

 

True enough. That's why I eventually relaxed the checks on what you were carrying. Right now you should (bugs allowing) be able to unequip your weapons and stick your clothes in the pack and then say "all done" and Bjorlam will believe you.

 

Of course, he'll get a bit sarcastic when the body search happens and he finds all the kit hidden away "somewhere", but apart from that, quest items shouldn't derail things these days.

 

 

 

If you only got partial dialogue and what you got went by quickly, it might be a Fuz Do rah - silent voice issue. Do you have it installed?

I should probably add that to the list of dependencies. Although it doesn't seem to be as vital as it once was. Did Beth patch the underlying bug there, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

 

 

FYI to all, I was going ahead with this whole process, and could not figure out how to get it to advance... only to realize I was armed with spells in my hands. That's apparently enough to identify as a weapon, so be sure you de-equip those in the process.

Now that's entirely possible. You're not supposed to be waving weapons around, or to have spells readied. Bjorlam should metion the spells, so that part's broken, but that's probably the source of a lot of blockers.

 

 

In that case, the SPERG unarmed thing might apply to this. Make sure unarmed is set to manual if you have SPERG.

Good point.

 

The change in responses when the brand activated was pretty clear in my run-through, for what it is worth.

 

mmmm... OK, good. I'll probably be a bit subtle then with any tweaking.

 

 

 

It's just the "environmental" dialog that is suppose to be spoken by nearby NPCs while they are standing around occasionally overlaps each other so the text for the next one shows before the first one is finish. You sort of see that in vanilla game also. Don't know if there's anything that could be done about it or needs to be done if it is too much work.

 

I had a lot of problems with that, to be honest. What I wanted was to create the effect of the crowd creating a general hubub. Liek you say though, if they talk over each other it gets lost and you get a lot of silence. I did some things that made the situation a lot better, but it's still a little flaky.

 

The trouble is, there doesn't seem to be a good way to detect when an NPC is finished speaking. I think I found an "isSpeaking" condition, but even that wasn't too reliable.

 

Also the first time I see the branding is sort of after the scene with Bjorlam. I think only the old version of the mod has branding near the beginning of first quest.

Yeah, the brand, tattoos and all should be in place from the start. The few tests I've run since starting kick off with "a searing pain in the right shoulder" which is generated when the brand applies, so it should appear at the start. Not sure I checked to see if it was visible though, thinking about it.

 

 

It could be that the npc's doing the speaking are too far away. If they are more than twenty feet or so from you, you won't "hear" their dialogue.

They ought to walk up close. Might be a bit borderline in some cases though. I can't get them too close or they get in the way. Certainly it could explain why I don't get as many voices as I expect. Maybe I can add some statics under the ground level and make the spectator voices originate from there. I think there's a way to do that ...

[jfraser]

Beth hasn't patched anything on skyrim in two years. FDR is definitely still a must.

[rkoelsch1]

 

 

...

 

This is kind of what I was getting at in regards to immersion breaking, the driver goes from dutiful and wanting to get the job done to just kind of saying "fuck it. I have nothing against plot, but the scene was wonky.

Fair comment.

 

What happens is that when the brand activates, the resulting rush of hyper arousal makes it impossible to offer more than token resistance. So there is an abrupt change in attitude there. Perhaps I need to explain that a bit better in the dialogue. Something else to think about...

 

The change in responses when the brand activated was pretty clear in my run-through, for what it is worth.

...

 

I got to the cart and after several discussions I finally agreed to the terms. I took off everything put it in the box and locked it. He asked if I took anything out I tried all three answers with no being the first(truth I didn't take anything my inventory consisted of the invitation and the key) but I could never move on. He always sent me back to put stuff in the chest. And there were no spectators.

He should be asking for the key back at that point. I wonder if you had any mods that used hidden tokens in your inventory? I used to get this problem with the invitation note blocking the scene from advancing, but that's not happened for a while now...

 

 

I had it stick at that point because I had spells equipped.  Or so I surmised, since it proceeded to take the key back, once I unequipped them.

 

 

Yes that is what happened silly me and my fire spell.

[chance]

A note for compatibility: if you have Deviously Cursed Loot installed, Bjorlam's chest can absolutely be trapped.

[DocClox]

Whoops! I better look into that one.

[afa]

A note for compatibility: if you have Deviously Cursed Loot installed, Bjorlam's chest can absolutely be trapped.

Oh gawd...

 

Yea I think the branding isn't showing until the second quest, the initial QAYL quest does mention the pain on shoulder, but I don't think it is actually visible.

 

Finally went through the entire thing "properly".

Might want to consider lighten up the hyper arousal effect and the sound, it is a little much, or have it pulsate occasionally if possible instead of full blast all the time.

 

There might be something about the armbinder that makes Bjorlam ignore DD items as being equip, I approach him without any device removed from the first part (gag, boot, armbinder) and the already naked dialog option was available, but I opt to go with the standard chest and key route, he just accepts everything then go straight to the search without having to pick up key, give him key, or him mentioning about DD items.

 

Also the arm binder being present seems to make the mod pick an armbinder related animation I got a boob job animation instead of the usual hugging animation. To top it off, the PC and Bjorlam was rotating randomly while the animation was playing.

 

I think the part with him going back and forth from the cart to get each item to give to PC could be shorten somewhat. Just have him hand over each item individually on the spot and trigger dialog might be enough. Have nearby NPC gossip if you feel adventurous

 

The "ramp" is a little tricky, it takes a while for the pathfinding to get PC on to the cart, and it took even longer for Bjorlam to get into position to trigger his dialog.

 

Was the nearby NPCs suppose to get on and trigger animation? The dialog seems to imply they aren't suppose to be able to, but then I wasn't sure was it because they were stuck.

[DocClox]

 

A note for compatibility: if you have Deviously Cursed Loot installed, Bjorlam's chest can absolutely be trapped.

Oh gawd...

I've asked Kimy for the best way to handle the situation.

 

Yea I think the branding isn't showing until the second quest, the initial QAYL quest does mention the pain on shoulder, but I don't think it is actually visible.

 

I'll check it out. I've been playing most of this week. And since my current PC is a heavy armour argonian dude (called Takes-Without-Asking) my only interaction with QAYL has been to politely decline when Cursus told me he was looking for a female runner.

 

Finally went through the entire thing "properly".

Might want to consider lighten up the hyper arousal effect and the sound, it is a little much, or have it pulsate occasionally if possible instead of full blast all the time.

 

Yeah, I think so too. It would be bearable for the duration of the cart scene, but when it continues into the next scene it gets old fast. Even for me

 

The odd pulse should be enough. Maybe upping the frequency for higher levels of hyper-a. (What, you thought there'd just be one? )

 

There might be something about the armbinder that makes Bjorlam ignore DD items as being equip, I approach him without any device removed from the first part (gag, boot, armbinder) and the already naked dialog option was available, but I opt to go with the standard chest and key route, he just accepts everything then go straight to the search without having to pick up key, give him key, or him mentioning about DD items.

 

He should offer to remove anything DD related that's equipped. He can remove anything that isn't marked as "no generic removal". If he can't remove something, he'll tell you to come back once you've sorted it out. Which is going to be a real pain if you've already surrendered most of your gear ... but I figure that's part of the fun, so I'm not worrying about it

 

Also the arm binder being present seems to make the mod pick an armbinder related animation I got a boob job animation instead of the usual hugging animation. To top it off, the PC and Bjorlam was rotating randomly while the animation was playing.

 

Definitely a bug then. There's no way you should be able to get to that stage while still arm-bound.

 

I think the part with him going back and forth from the cart to get each item to give to PC could be shorten somewhat. Just have him hand over each item individually on the spot and trigger dialog might be enough. Have nearby NPC gossip if you feel adventurous

 

That would simplify things a lot. Lose a little immersion perhaps, but the saving in time is probably worthwhile. I'll look at that.

 

The "ramp" is a little tricky, it takes a while for the pathfinding to get PC on to the cart, and it took even longer for Bjorlam to get into position to trigger his dialog.

 

It is, and it can take a while. I wonder if I can make an invisible ramp that runs over the top. The best solution might just be to allow the player to board under her own steam. Bjorlam might still get stuck... but he can stay on the ground if need be.

 

Was the nearby NPCs suppose to get on and trigger animation? The dialog seems to imply they aren't suppose to be able to, but then I wasn't sure was it because they were stuck.

The way it's suppose to work is:

 

* Bjorlam ("BJ" hereafter) guides the player up onto the cart.

* BJ then gets up there too.

* The spectators then crowd around the ramp to get a better view.

* BJ secures the PC to the bed of the cart and announces that they're ready to go

* The lead spectator tries to trick/bribe BJ into walking down to the Meadery for a pint or two while they watch the "cargo"

* BJ gets half-way down the road before realising what's afoot

* BJ gets back just as the lead spectator is saying "dibs me first!"

* BJ chases spectators away, gets on cart and off to Aleator Estate

 

The spectators shouldn't trigger anything. They can get in the way when BJ is trying to climb down, and I ended up spacing them out somewhat wider than I'd have liked, but otherwise ... well the scene is supposed to play through just fine if none of the aliases fill. Not that it does, but that was the intention.

[Sarfin]

I experienced another issue with this mod:

 

After being drugged and get ready  for the first run, i have a kind of blurry effect on the screen.

As long i was running, i didn't aware something weird, thought this is a effect of the mod, it will end after reach my destination.

 

But after reaching the cell and end the first stage of the quest, the blurry effect did not vanished.

 

Somebody else has this?

[DocClox]

After being drugged and get ready for the first run, i have a kind of blurry effect on the screen.

As long i was running, i didn't aware something weird, thought this is a effect of the mod, it will end after reach my destination.

 

But after reaching the cell and end the first stage of the quest, the blurry effect did not vanished.

 

Somebody else has this?

Sadly, it's very likely. The effect is supposed to clear at the start of the race. For some reason though I glitches. I thought I'd fixed that half a dozen times.

[badbat111]

 

 

A note for compatibility: if you have Deviously Cursed Loot installed, Bjorlam's chest can absolutely be trapped.

Oh gawd...

I've asked Kimy for the best way to handle the situation.

 

Yea I think the branding isn't showing until the second quest, the initial QAYL quest does mention the pain on shoulder, but I don't think it is actually visible.

I'll check it out. I've been playing most of this week. And since my current PC is a heavy armour argonian dude (called Takes-Without-Asking) my only interaction with QAYL has been to politely decline when Cursus told me he was looking for a female runner.

 

Finally went through the entire thing "properly".

Might want to consider lighten up the hyper arousal effect and the sound, it is a little much, or have it pulsate occasionally if possible instead of full blast all the time.

Yeah, I think so too. It would be bearable for the duration of the cart scene, but when it continues into the next scene it gets old fast. Even for me

 

The odd pulse should be enough. Maybe upping the frequency for higher levels of hyper-a. (What, you thought there'd just be one? )

 

There might be something about the armbinder that makes Bjorlam ignore DD items as being equip, I approach him without any device removed from the first part (gag, boot, armbinder) and the already naked dialog option was available, but I opt to go with the standard chest and key route, he just accepts everything then go straight to the search without having to pick up key, give him key, or him mentioning about DD items.

He should offer to remove anything DD related that's equipped. He can remove anything that isn't marked as "no generic removal". If he can't remove something, he'll tell you to come back once you've sorted it out. Which is going to be a real pain if you've already surrendered most of your gear ... but I figure that's part of the fun, so I'm not worrying about it

 

Also the arm binder being present seems to make the mod pick an armbinder related animation I got a boob job animation instead of the usual hugging animation. To top it off, the PC and Bjorlam was rotating randomly while the animation was playing.

Definitely a bug then. There's no way you should be able to get to that stage while still arm-bound.

 

I think the part with him going back and forth from the cart to get each item to give to PC could be shorten somewhat. Just have him hand over each item individually on the spot and trigger dialog might be enough. Have nearby NPC gossip if you feel adventurous

That would simplify things a lot. Lose a little immersion perhaps, but the saving in time is probably worthwhile. I'll look at that.

 

The "ramp" is a little tricky, it takes a while for the pathfinding to get PC on to the cart, and it took even longer for Bjorlam to get into position to trigger his dialog.

It is, and it can take a while. I wonder if I can make an invisible ramp that runs over the top. The best solution might just be to allow the player to board under her own steam. Bjorlam might still get stuck... but he can stay on the ground if need be.

 

Was the nearby NPCs suppose to get on and trigger animation? The dialog seems to imply they aren't suppose to be able to, but then I wasn't sure was it because they were stuck.

The way it's suppose to work is:

 

* Bjorlam ("BJ" hereafter) guides the player up onto the cart.

* BJ then gets up there too.

* The spectators then crowd around the ramp to get a better view.

* BJ secures the PC to the bed of the cart and announces that they're ready to go

* The lead spectator tries to trick/bribe BJ into walking down to the Meadery for a pint or two while they watch the "cargo"

* BJ gets half-way down the road before realising what's afoot

* BJ gets back just as the lead spectator is saying "dibs me first!"

* BJ chases spectators away, gets on cart and off to Aleator Estate

 

The spectators shouldn't trigger anything. They can get in the way when BJ is trying to climb down, and I ended up spacing them out somewhat wider than I'd have liked, but otherwise ... well the scene is supposed to play through just fine if none of the aliases fill. Not that it does, but that was the intention.

 

 

i managed to get him to chase them off but odd thing is they walked backwards and the player stood up and got stuck without progressing further

[mazz89]

 

 

 

 

A note for compatibility: if you have Deviously Cursed Loot installed, Bjorlam's chest can absolutely be trapped.

Oh gawd...

I've asked Kimy for the best way to handle the situation.

 

Yea I think the branding isn't showing until the second quest, the initial QAYL quest does mention the pain on shoulder, but I don't think it is actually visible.

I'll check it out. I've been playing most of this week. And since my current PC is a heavy armour argonian dude (called Takes-Without-Asking) my only interaction with QAYL has been to politely decline when Cursus told me he was looking for a female runner.

 

Finally went through the entire thing "properly".

Might want to consider lighten up the hyper arousal effect and the sound, it is a little much, or have it pulsate occasionally if possible instead of full blast all the time.

Yeah, I think so too. It would be bearable for the duration of the cart scene, but when it continues into the next scene it gets old fast. Even for me

 

The odd pulse should be enough. Maybe upping the frequency for higher levels of hyper-a. (What, you thought there'd just be one? )

 

There might be something about the armbinder that makes Bjorlam ignore DD items as being equip, I approach him without any device removed from the first part (gag, boot, armbinder) and the already naked dialog option was available, but I opt to go with the standard chest and key route, he just accepts everything then go straight to the search without having to pick up key, give him key, or him mentioning about DD items.

He should offer to remove anything DD related that's equipped. He can remove anything that isn't marked as "no generic removal". If he can't remove something, he'll tell you to come back once you've sorted it out. Which is going to be a real pain if you've already surrendered most of your gear ... but I figure that's part of the fun, so I'm not worrying about it

 

Also the arm binder being present seems to make the mod pick an armbinder related animation I got a boob job animation instead of the usual hugging animation. To top it off, the PC and Bjorlam was rotating randomly while the animation was playing.

Definitely a bug then. There's no way you should be able to get to that stage while still arm-bound.

 

I think the part with him going back and forth from the cart to get each item to give to PC could be shorten somewhat. Just have him hand over each item individually on the spot and trigger dialog might be enough. Have nearby NPC gossip if you feel adventurous

That would simplify things a lot. Lose a little immersion perhaps, but the saving in time is probably worthwhile. I'll look at that.

 

The "ramp" is a little tricky, it takes a while for the pathfinding to get PC on to the cart, and it took even longer for Bjorlam to get into position to trigger his dialog.

It is, and it can take a while. I wonder if I can make an invisible ramp that runs over the top. The best solution might just be to allow the player to board under her own steam. Bjorlam might still get stuck... but he can stay on the ground if need be.

 

Was the nearby NPCs suppose to get on and trigger animation? The dialog seems to imply they aren't suppose to be able to, but then I wasn't sure was it because they were stuck.

The way it's suppose to work is:

 

* Bjorlam ("BJ" hereafter) guides the player up onto the cart.

* BJ then gets up there too.

* The spectators then crowd around the ramp to get a better view.

* BJ secures the PC to the bed of the cart and announces that they're ready to go

* The lead spectator tries to trick/bribe BJ into walking down to the Meadery for a pint or two while they watch the "cargo"

* BJ gets half-way down the road before realising what's afoot

* BJ gets back just as the lead spectator is saying "dibs me first!"

* BJ chases spectators away, gets on cart and off to Aleator Estate

 

The spectators shouldn't trigger anything. They can get in the way when BJ is trying to climb down, and I ended up spacing them out somewhat wider than I'd have liked, but otherwise ... well the scene is supposed to play through just fine if none of the aliases fill. Not that it does, but that was the intention.

i managed to get him to chase them off but odd thing is they walked backwards and the player stood up and got stuck without progressing further

+1

[Rdawgx]

Hey guys,

 

my game keeps crashing when BJ goes to drink some mead.  Also, there is no crowd when I am tied down.  Can anyone help me?

[badbat111]

Hey guys,

 

my game keeps crashing when BJ goes to drink some mead.  Also, there is no crowd when I am tied down.  Can anyone help me?

 

its a bug doc should have added a crowd at the stables rather than using the game to check that way it wont glitch do it in the daytime you might have better luck

[DocClox]

my game keeps crashing when BJ goes to drink some mead. Also, there is no crowd when I am tied down. Can anyone help me?

It's a known issue, I'm afraid. If the crowd aliases don't fill, the game crashes at that point.

 

The good news is you got to the end of the playable content anyway.

[Rdawgx]

 

my game keeps crashing when BJ goes to drink some mead. Also, there is no crowd when I am tied down. Can anyone help me?

It's a known issue, I'm afraid. If the crowd aliases don't fill, the game crashes at that point.

 

The good news is you got to the end of the playable content anyway.

 

 

Thanks Doc.  I'm looking forward to what's next.

[badbat111]

 

 

my game keeps crashing when BJ goes to drink some mead. Also, there is no crowd when I am tied down. Can anyone help me?

It's a known issue, I'm afraid. If the crowd aliases don't fill, the game crashes at that point.

 

The good news is you got to the end of the playable content anyway.

 

 

Thanks Doc.  I'm looking forward to what's next.

 

 

in next update will our heroine get to the bottom of it or will she remain bound and helpless tune in next update

 

[Content Consumer]

 

my game keeps crashing when BJ goes to drink some mead. Also, there is no crowd when I am tied down. Can anyone help me?

It's a known issue, I'm afraid. If the crowd aliases don't fill, the game crashes at that point.

 

The good news is you got to the end of the playable content anyway.

 

Probably the best thing to do is, instead grabbing nearby NPCs to use as the crowd, to create your own.

If you don't want them to be generic fill-in-your-name-here wanderers or "imperial soldier" or whatever, just make copies of every single NPC in the city, removing all vanilla scripts or anything (basically, you only want an NPC with the same name, equipment, and facial features of the vanilla one), then populate your crowd from that list of NPCs, enabling and disabling them as needed.

If you were Jarl Baalgruuf, wouldn't you come running down to the stables if you'd heard there was a naked woman tied up and free for the taking?

 

Or, instead you could just add some permanent additions to the stables workforce. Maybe that little farm just outside the Khajiit camp needs someone to tend the crops. There's a guy who wanders from the gate to the stables 24 hours a day, guarding the city entrance, because he wants to prove to the city watch that he's a good hire choice. A pilgrim has arrived to look at the Gildergreen, but he's so upset at it's current condition that he can't bear to go back into the city, and is just waiting for his carriage to arrive to take him back to High Rock.

 

I dunno...

[DocClox]

Probably the best thing to do is, instead grabbing nearby NPCs to use as the crowd, to create your own.

 

Really, it shouldn't be a problem. Every radiant quest in game fills its aliases this way, as do half the conventional ones.

 

It was working just fine in testing, right up to the point where I decide to make a public release. Clearly I broke something at the end but the technique ought to be sound.

 

That said, if someone has a log file from a game where the aliases didn't fill (bonus points if the game subsequently CTDed) then that would be useful.

 

in next update will our heroine get to the bottom of it or will she remain bound and helpless tune in next update

 

Next update will probably be a bugfix for this one without advancing things particularly.

[Terran_2993]

Just wanted to ask, how to start new quest?

[stumpythegod]

Love the mod, thought Id mention this though.

 

I've been trying out deviously enslaved. Might want to mention minor it has conflicts. It has interrupted Mr Bjorn, Several times causing him to "forget" what he is doing.

 

I disabled the mod for the event and all went smooth. Just thought Id give you a heads up. I've only started messing with it so, I am not entirely sure if it is just because I am naked, or if its going to start happening as soon as stuff is equiped. I would imagine it would be fine until the collar is equiped, but if you have a crowd spectating like I think you are trying to do it seems to me that would interrupt your scripting as well. 

 

Love it so far though. =D

[DocClox]

Just wanted to ask, how to start new quest?

Do something else for a couple of days then visit a city. A courier will have a new message for you.

 

Love the mod, thought Id mention this though.

 

Always nice to hear!

 

I've been trying out deviously enslaved. Might want to mention minor it has conflicts. It has interrupted Mr Bjorn, Several times causing him to "forget" what he is doing.

 

Ow. Yes, I can see that causing issues. I'll see what can be done.