Vel W Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 So long post and minor spoiler alert for The Body Double~~excuse my manners.  20 hours ago, FoxFingers said:    ~~40% of the time the Player Dialogue simply reinforces the NPC voiced dialogue. That is, the Player dialogue adds import to what the NPC just said by rephrasing it in the form of a question.  That's intentional - it underlines the plot point. Also, there's essentially no second option to give. Plus it's usually perfectly generic and non-offensive.  The other 40% of the time the dialogue is what I call "Thanks for setting up my stunt". (No, seriously, that's what it's called).  And I have to ask myself, Okay - if there are now Options, what does it mean?  In Vanilla Dawnguard, in Serana's case, it means whether or not you're going to be "In" with her enough to ask her to give up being a vampire. Right, so there's actually a Game Outcome involved.  But, once you know you must always, always select the "nice guy" choice in dialogue if you want her cured... are you really role-playing anymore? No, you are gaming the system.  What fun is that? You're on the same dialogue railroad even if you have the illusion of choice.  And, let's say in Amorous Adventures if you follow the "Wrong" dialogue path you end up failing the romance. You'll just learn what the choices are to win and game the system. Are you role-playing then?  So, anyways, it's a challenge to figure out how to work that in in any meaningful way.   Sorry I had to cut your quotes there. The entire post was full of great points so I had to sacrifice some or this'd be a 2-page thesis.  Now, I am not certain to what extent can "Illusion of choice" be defined, but if there are to be more dialog options, I'd say "Choosing how to win" is far superior to "Choosing win or loss".  Conversely, I don't imagine many would want new options that fail a romance. If I cared about the romance, I would simply want to win even if I had to be out-of-character temporarily. While slightly weird, it beats losing which is just lame.  Unless, and that's a big UNLESS, I don't dare about the outcome, in which case I'd take role-play over winning, but the scenario is extremely rare. People that don't care about a quest's outcome usually just don't do it. They wouldn't even know they could lose.  Like the curing-Serana example you gave. That's a "Choosing win or loss". Only people (like me) who preferred her as vampire were free to role-play because we didn't need the cure. We didn't have to game the system.  So in the first part of the The Body Double, I was allowed to get information from the Blue Palace servants and advance the quest through either Bribe (Maybe this will help you remember *gives 1000+ septim*) or Persuasion (Please help me, it's important). This was a "Choosing how to win" and I love it. A small improvement but its HUuuuuge effect cannot be overstated. I LOVE IT, MATE.  If you were to refine previous contents, your own work is the greatest example. Expand any single-option dialogue into like 2 of the 4 options: Persuasion, Intimidation, Bribe and Rephrasing-What-The-Other-Just-Said (if applicable). Same destination, different railroad. As long as Persuasion and Rephrasing don't appear simultaneously, I can see some role-playing potential.  The other great example is the Thieves Guild's Blindsighted quest which you get to role-play a bit during that showdown with Mercer Frey. I think the 3 responses were like "I am killing you for the Guild", "I just wanna be rich", "You must die, Nocturnal demands it!". You kill Mercer all the same, but the feeling is different enough.   That said, I'd still prefer new quests. Who likes reading last year's newspaper? Maybe some do. I don't. I have contained my desire for far too long. Please, Mr./Ms. Fox, please tell me you're going to make a quest for Karliah in the future.  W-w-what's that? You need a break? Well~~~I understand. Take your time.
rubenibanez Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 Well, next April is AA 5th anniversary. How time slips away. 1
SleepyJim Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 Just played through the Body Double quest. First of all, fantastic stuff! I really enjoyed it, and Elisif might just become the only follower I need from now on. I've had one problem with it that might need looking into, and spotted two very small typos. Spoilers follow for those who haven't played it yet!  Spoiler  I took screenshots of the typos. Both were just after killing Big Kahuna, I think, in Chillwind Depths. The first is missing an "is" and the second describes Falmer as "viscous" instead of "vicious." (Also misses the comma before "milady" for the true Grammar Nazis.)   The problem I had is that the body double Elisif (who stays on the throne as per vanilla) seems to lose all mouth movement when in direct conversation with the player. Her lips move when chatting outside of dialogue, like the scripted scenes with other members of the court, but when you speak to her yourself her mouth stays completely motionless. I noticed it when speaking to her in her chambers after the rescue, just before the finale threesome, but don't recall it happening before then. It seems afterwards that her lips are now permanently motionless when talking to the player. The companion Elisif works perfectly for lip movement. (She always prefers her raiment to armour unless you take it off her though.)   Thanks for the great extra quest, Fox! And while she does indeed look good in glass, I gave her Crimson Twilight, converted to light armour, with the Al Dahna re-tex. Suits her nicely as well.  1
FoxFingers Posted June 5, 2018 Author Posted June 5, 2018 10 hours ago, rubenibanez said: Well, next April is AA 5th anniversary. How time slips away. Mr. or Mrs. Ibanez. Great to see you, hope you are well.  And that will make Skyrim itself, what... 8 years old? Geeze, are we all really still playing this game?  At what point do we say we're all Retro-Gamers?  2
FoxFingers Posted June 5, 2018 Author Posted June 5, 2018 4 hours ago, SleepyJim said: Just played through the Body Double quest. First of all, fantastic stuff! I really enjoyed it, and Elisif might just become the only follower I need from now on. I've had one problem with it that might need looking into, and spotted two very small typos. Spoilers follow for those who haven't played it yet!   Reveal hidden contents  I took screenshots of the typos. Both were just after killing Big Kahuna, I think, in Chillwind Depths. The first is missing an "is" and the second describes Falmer as "viscous" instead of "vicious." (Also misses the comma before "milady" for the true Grammar Nazis.)   The problem I had is that the body double Elisif (who stays on the throne as per vanilla) seems to lose all mouth movement when in direct conversation with the player. Her lips move when chatting outside of dialogue, like the scripted scenes with other members of the court, but when you speak to her yourself her mouth stays completely motionless. I noticed it when speaking to her in her chambers after the rescue, just before the finale threesome, but don't recall it happening before then. It seems afterwards that her lips are now permanently motionless when talking to the player. The companion Elisif works perfectly for lip movement. (She always prefers her raiment to armour unless you take it off her though.)   Thanks for the great extra quest, Fox! And while she does indeed look good in glass, I gave her Crimson Twilight, converted to light armour, with the Al Dahna re-tex. Suits her nicely as well.   Thanks SleepyJim. Really glad you enjoyed the quest.  Thanks for spotting those typos. Much appreciated. I will need to fix that. I, myself, did not notice any issues with speaking animation. Both talked fine. I do use the Mods in my game - better female facial animations - fix Lip Sync - face to face conversation  I don't know if that has anything to do with why I don't see any issues in my game, but just throwing that out there.  Thanks so much for the feedback, greatly appreciated.
Uncle64 Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 I must say that how Seranas quest is now it perfect. Works like sharm for me, since I always ends up marry her or Vilja. And have Spouses Enanced added. Greate work One thing I dont like is Lydias questline. Feels odd to fetch corundium when she is given Ebony armor. Could she not get one nice steel and one open helmet of some sort instead, and perhaps also one nice sword? Â
FoxFingers Posted June 5, 2018 Author Posted June 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Veloric said:  The other great example is the Thieves Guild's Blindsighted quest which you get to role-play a bit during that showdown with Mercer Frey. I think the 3 responses were like "I am killing you for the Guild", "I just wanna be rich", "You must die, Nocturnal demands it!". You kill Mercer all the same, but the feeling is different enough.   That said, I'd still prefer new quests. Who likes reading last year's newspaper? Maybe some do. I don't. I have contained my desire for far too long. Please, Mr./Ms. Fox, please tell me you're going to make a quest for Karliah in the future.   Great points, thanks. Yeah, that's a toughie right. Going back and polishing the existing quests to give what will essentially be the illusion of dialogue choice. (The destination is pre-ordained, really). Or providing a new quest.  Technically, I'm on the hook to do the quest choices of the 2nd and 3rd place winners of my contest IF I were to do any more new quests. I think the contest was a nice gesture to allow the community to pick what content is in the Mod. And, actually, I think the Elisif quest came out okay in the end.  But what I failed to realize about my own self is that when the choice is taken away in what I feel like doing creatively, then I simply don't have the interest in pouring in the hours to do the work.  It went from something I was choosing to do and became a very hard and time consuming unpaid job. Hence it took 8 months for me to do Elisif's quest. And that was the only one I definitively promised.  So, yeah, I kind of painted myself into a corner on that one.  Going back and polishing old quests, that's something I can do though.  Thanks!
SleepyJim Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, FoxFingers said:  Thanks SleepyJim. Really glad you enjoyed the quest.  Thanks for spotting those typos. Much appreciated. I will need to fix that. I, myself, did not notice any issues with speaking animation. Both talked fine. I do use the Mods in my game - better female facial animations - fix Lip Sync - face to face conversation  I don't know if that has anything to do with why I don't see any issues in my game, but just throwing that out there.  Thanks so much for the feedback, greatly appreciated. I've gone off adventuring for a while with the follower version (just discovered she can be married, too!) and I'm planning on heading back to the palace to see if it's fixed itself in a little while. Could easily be due to the wrong combination of mods, yeah, although I'm using all of those myself.  One other question, if I may. Can both Elisifs be asked if they ever feel amorous once they're unlocked as a lover? I have the option for the one acting as Jarl but not for the follower (though it's possible I've already asked her.)  Thanks.
FoxFingers Posted June 5, 2018 Author Posted June 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, SleepyJim said: I've gone off adventuring for a while with the follower version (just discovered she can be married, too!) and I'm planning on heading back to the palace to see if it's fixed itself in a little while. Could easily be due to the wrong combination of mods, yeah, although I'm using all of those myself.  One other question, if I may. Can both Elisifs be asked if they ever feel amorous once they're unlocked as a lover? I have the option for the one acting as Jarl but not for the follower (though it's possible I've already asked her.)  Thanks. Hopefully the speaking issue will have resolved itself when you speak to her again.  The Follower Elisif comes pre-assigned to the Amorous Lovers factions that dialogue is related to. So, no need there.  Note: if you use the lovers options to Break-Up with Elisif, you break up with both twins - Elisif and her Body Double.  Thanks!
FoxFingers Posted June 5, 2018 Author Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Uncle64 said: I must say that how Seranas quest is now it perfect. Works like sharm for me, since I always ends up marry her or Vilja. And have Spouses Enanced added. Greate work One thing I dont like is Lydias questline. Feels odd to fetch corundium when she is given Ebony armor. Could she not get one nice steel and one open helmet of some sort instead, and perhaps also one nice sword?  Thanks Uncle64. Hope you are well. Glad Serana's quest is adding to your journey with her.  Yeah, I do get asked about that Ebony armor a lot. I guess I am going to have to lower the grade.  That said, it does kind of make sense from a Quest perspective if you also do Adrianne's Amorous quest to open up access to the Ebony Mine for her. Quest: "New, New Malacath Blues".  Thanks!
SleepyJim Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, FoxFingers said: Hopefully the speaking issue will have resolved itself when you speak to her again. Yes, it's resolved itself. Possibly just leaving and re-entering the Blue Palace might have been enough. Just one of those many Skyrim things, I guess. Sorry for the false alarm and thanks again!
Thenryb Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 Back in the day, I read some complaint about the mod on Nexus relative to that Ebony gear for Lydia. The complaint was that in order to get that armor for her, you had to romance her:) Those are the sorts of complaints which would send me screaming into the night if I were a mod author.
Uncle64 Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 Yea @Foxfinger it fits well into Marry Serana Mod and SE. There are some small isses at dialoge level. But you cant miss that Serana wants you. Â I did have one thinking, cant we or some that knows make one Lydia armor? That is only for lydia, for making that quest more legit. Â Â
Vel W Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 13 hours ago, SleepyJim said: Just played through the Body Double quest. First of all, fantastic stuff! I really enjoyed it, and Elisif might just become the only follower I need from now on. I've had one problem with it that might need looking into, and spotted two very small typos. Spoilers follow for those who haven't played it yet!   Hide contents  I took screenshots of the typos. Both were just after killing Big Kahuna, I think, in Chillwind Depths. The first is missing an "is" and the second describes Falmer as "viscous" instead of "vicious." (Also misses the comma before "milady" for the true Grammar Nazis.)        Darn, Jimmy, I was just about to post the same thing!  Glad I'm not the only Grammar Nazi here. Well met, good sir.
KravisGile Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 Just quick-tested the new AmorousElisif. It's hilarious that this "fair widow" is capable to kicking the shit out of an army of falmer and chaurus. Well done, Fox. She's definitely a solid choice for a "Follower Wife". It's so much easier than force-removing Elisif's "NonMarriage" and "Jarl" factions that prevent marriage and custom wife packages. I always felt that method would eventually freak the game out. 1
FoxFingers Posted June 6, 2018 Author Posted June 6, 2018 16 hours ago, Uncle64 said: Yea @Foxfinger it fits well into Marry Serana Mod and SE. There are some small isses at dialoge level. But you cant miss that Serana wants you.  I did have one thinking, cant we or some that knows make one Lydia armor? That is only for lydia, for making that quest more legit.   Gee, I wouldn't want to have any, like, special armor in the Mod because it probably would end up being incompatible with a particular body type (7-Base, etc.) or a particular Skyrim version (SSE). Nice thought tho.
FoxFingers Posted June 6, 2018 Author Posted June 6, 2018 14 hours ago, KravisGile said: Just quick-tested the new AmorousElisif. It's hilarious that this "fair widow" is capable to kicking the shit out of an army of falmer and chaurus. Well done, Fox. She's definitely a solid choice for a "Follower Wife". It's so much easier than force-removing Elisif's "NonMarriage" and "Jarl" factions that prevent marriage and custom wife packages. I always felt that method would eventually freak the game out. With her decent sneak and archery skills, she's probably end up a good fit with any stealthy archer player. You know... since everyone always ends up a stealthy archer in the end anyways, right.     4
Revanswe Posted June 6, 2018 Posted June 6, 2018 It doesn't seems like the Flower Girl version is on Nexus anymore I could only find the Clean one
FoxFingers Posted June 6, 2018 Author Posted June 6, 2018 23 minutes ago, Revanswe said: It doesn't seems like the Flower Girl version is on Nexus anymore I could only find the Clean one https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5941/?tab=files  It is maintained by Xider at his Flowergirls page. Thanks!
Kain82 Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 9 hours ago, FoxFingers said: With her decent sneak and archery skills, she's probably end up a good fit with any stealthy archer player. You know... since everyone always ends up a stealthy archer in the end anyways, right.     I never seen that chart. It's hilarious. 1
lucasroxbrand Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Hey! @FoxFingers How ya doin'?  I'm just here to thank you once again for updating this mod. It's not an easy thing, what you do. It's something that causes a lot of mental fatigue, it's something that requires patience and time, a lot of time. And I know that sometimes your effort is not properly recognized. I know exactly what it is, trust me.  It is more than four years of incredible work, which I hope is coming to an end, for the sake of your own mental health (seriously, I do not know how madness has not taken you yet).   So I leave here my sincere thanks to your effort and dedication. 1
shardoom Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 I really wish you'd had made that Agni quest that you often talked about... Maybe next time you un-retire and find yourself un-bored with Skyrim again?
xyzxyz Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 Can I get Rikke as lover when I have completed the civil war befor she was implemented?
RomulusAugustulus Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 11 hours ago, shardoom said: I really wish you'd had made that Agni quest that you often talked about... Maybe next time you un-retire and find yourself un-bored with Skyrim again? I guess you mean Angi? I don't think FF would do something with Agni and Agnis is a DB target
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