Amorous Adventures [v3.4] (2018/06/02)

[Uncle64]

17 minutes ago, FoxFingers said:

No, Amorous Adventures just leads you to Vanilla places.  It doesn't care about the masks.

 

Thanks!

Ok. Thanks. I did suspect that.

Back to Serana then.

Thanks for answer.

[S4WDU5T]

On 5/22/2018 at 6:15 PM, FoxFingers said:

I'm searching for a Lore-ish reason for Elisif to have a more martial Doppleganger of herself running around for the purposes of a final Elisif Quest.  Kind of leaning towards Talos involvement. 

Thought I'd seen something like this before, the Alice the Hermit follower has her as an Elisif look-alike living in the Pelagius wing of the Blue Palace, in the event of Elisif's untimely demise Alice is on standby to take her place as "Elisif" to fool the people and avoid civil unrest, etc

[Old Book]

Thoughts on Talos Quests:
My favorite version of the Talos Lore is that he's a mantling of Shor / Lorkhan by Tiber Septim and possibly other mortals, all of whom merged in the process. We saw something similar at the end of The Shivering Isles, when the Hero of Kvatch mantled Sheogorath, eventually becoming indistinguishable from the Mad God by the time of Skyrim (having by that point gained access to most of the former Sheogorath's power and memories). The Dragonborn, in one reading of the lore, is himself a Shezarine, a fragment / avatar of Lorkhan, and thus Talos.  (You can always read the lore in other ways; that has been built into the Elder Scrolls games since Morrowind.)

A good quest for Talos would be establishing or protecting several small but important centers of his worship, so that the Thalmor can't destroy the God of Man. Maybe start by saving a group of Talos worshipers, then tell the story to a great wandering bard who is destined to spread the story of Talos throughout Tamriel, then get the Bard to a ship so that he can travel to Ebonheart and in the process save a group of pirates from Thalmor and thus convert them to Talos worship, and finally learn from letters on the captain of the Thalmor the location of a Thalmor outpost housing a massive collection of art and literature dedicated to Talos (this can all just be one chest). Go to the outpost, recover the art, and deliver it to the Bard's College, thus making sure that it is spread throughout Skyrim and beyond. 

Thoughts on Elisif's Dopleganger:
Maybe Elisif had been destined to become a great leader of all Mankind, a true Battle Queen who would re-unite the Empire, but her destiny was foiled by the Thalmor when they manipulated Ulfric into slaying her husband prematurely. The Thalmor knew what she was destined to become; that's why they broke the thread of her destiny by sending Ulfric against her husband. Now that Elisif is bonded to the Dragonborn, both versions of her, the vulnerable yet loving woman she is and the powerful yet isolated woman she should have become, simultaneously exist. The Dragonborn must decide which will, in the end, be the True Elisif.  

[Guest]

@FoxFingers

I just got to tell you.....your work is amazing. Thank you! Really! And I am talking about the technical work you did as well as creating integrated stories. I tried to make a simple mod where I would replace some of Serana's random dialog with comments that were a little more aggressive if not even hostile....and that included speaking to the player. I always felt she needed a little more "Molag" in her style.

 

So I tried to recreate some sound bits using LazyVoiceFinder and Audacity.......I eventually gave up. Everything I created sounded like shit.

[karlpaws]

24 minutes ago, Old Book said:

Maybe start by saving a group of Talos worshipers, then tell the story to a great wandering bard who is destined to spread the story of Talos throughout Tamriel, then get the Bard to a ship so that he can travel to Ebonheart

There is the shrine of Talos in Falkreath, not far from the Guardian stones with a bunch of dead worshippers. They could be replaced by a live ones and the dead Thalmor there resurrected and moved just a little bit away, enabled and sent to attack as the Hero arrives? Tsalgar is usually wandering around there... maybe he could get script teleported in for use?

 

Quote

 

Thoughts on Elisif's Dopleganger:
Maybe Elisif had been destined to become a great leader of all Mankind, a true Battle Queen who would re-unite the Empire, but her destiny was foiled by the Thalmor

 

Now that Elisif is bonded to the Dragonborn, both versions of her, the vulnerable yet loving woman she is and the powerful yet isolated woman she should have become, simultaneously exist. The Dragonborn must decide which will, in the end, be the True Elisif.  

Schroedinger's Elisif?

 

?

[LaEspada]

2 hours ago, Old Book said:

Maybe Elisif had been destined to become a great leader of all Mankind, a true Battle Queen who would re-unite the Empire, but her destiny was foiled by the Thalmor when they manipulated Ulfric into slaying her husband prematurely. The Thalmor knew what she was destined to become; that's why they broke the thread of her destiny by sending Ulfric against her husband. Now that Elisif is bonded to the Dragonborn, both versions of her, the vulnerable yet loving woman she is and the powerful yet isolated woman she should have become, simultaneously exist. The Dragonborn must decide which will, in the end, be the True Elisif.  

Gonna start talking about Dragon breaks now? That being said, the Thalmor at a high-level are complete crazies and I could see something like that. However, why go through the trouble of letting a would-be uniter instead of just outright killing her?

 

I joke, but some of your thoughts are neat.

[markyy0902]

OR....

 

The simple premise of the high queen going out to "gain the experience & cooperation" of her kingdom is already an interesting one.

 

Having her go "do" the Jarls of the nine holds (or doing quests for each of them) to gain their cooperation for the eventual King's moot (basically an election to determine the next high king) seems... erotic.  At least for me.

 

If thinking up a talos quest is too brain-draining (I just read the talos page in the elder scrolls wiki.. and couldnt find anything creative to morph into an Elisif AA quest), I personally think an Elisf (sex) Quest for the kingsmoot would be engaging; given how each jarl has different opinions for elisif and skyrim. It would be a political and lore-friendly quest. and you can mix the thalmor in with no problem; they wouldn't want a united skyrim

 

Hell, this King's moot AA quest can end in a massive council orgy in the name of Talos to close AA on a high note!

[Fish_Hook]

Reading through the recent comments there are a a lot of good suggestions going on. I for one love the idea of making her into a companion. Skyrim at its base is all about going on quests and clearing dungeons and, while it is possible to stand around the blue palace forever, tedium sets in eventually. When creating a new mod or update, the main goal is to create something for the players to interact with, and the more exposure the player has to the content is (almost) always better. Therefore a follower is a great fit for her

 

If you do decide on the follower route there are a few things I will suggest. Light foot perk is a must for any follower and, if she is an armored follower whichever perk makes armor weigh nothing for them (unhindered/conditioning). Followers are able to keep up much better in my experience. Lastly please make her recognized by the game as your spouse, even if its not official. There are a few things in the base game that benefit the player, and quite a few mods that I know of that recognize and enhance it.

 

As for what turns her into a follower a return of the king might be called for. Torygg learns of an elder scroll that foretells Elisif's death, and in order to save her everybody must think her dead. 1 faked death later and boom! A good enough reason for anybody to run around with the dragon born. This also works the talos aspect, Elisif claims she doesn't worship talos at the beginning, after learning that her late husband actually communicated with the dragon born she might start to believe. Her faith in Talos inspired by Torygg and her new love.

 

Regardless, I'm sure something will come to you. If you need some inspiration I would suggest the sword of truth series by Terry Goodkind; lots of love, death, sex, and clever solutions to problems, that is if you are up to some heavy reading. Most of the books are in the 850+ page range.

[FoxFingers]

Thanks for all the responses to the important question of the day: what to do with Lady Elisif.

 

For technical reasons we have to have Two Elisif's existing in the game simultaneously.  The vanilla Elisif, and the follower adventurer Elisif.

 

I can't just disable the Vanilla Elisif, because invariably some player will un-install this Mod and end-up with no Elisif in their game. Because she will still be disabled.

 

Conversely, vanilla Elisif is completely unsuited to walking around Skyrim's dangerous places. She's not designed for it. So we need an Elisif that can brave Skyrim.

 

Hence - two Elisif's co-existing and enabled in-game together at the same time.

 

The lore solution I went looking for is... how did we end up with Two Elisif's?

 

My first thought was, well, a God did it. And that kind of dovetails in with Talos, because Torygg was into Talos and Elisif might be.  Plus Elisif is now a leader.

 

My next thought was the movie Avatar.  There are two Jake Scully characters in the movie, so maybe Vanilla Elisif is asleep and "driving" the combat-ready Avatar.

 

Basically, the player needs to be given a good reason why there are now TWO Elisifs in their game and how they interact is different.  Bonus if it's justified in Lore.

 

Anyways, some great ideas to pursue the angle with here.  Thanks for that!

 

Edit:

Another solution would be to directly Mod the Vanilla Elisif in the base game - change her base Actor class.  I hate to do that because I have a rule about touching none of Bethesda's stuff with edits.

 

[Reesewow]

56 minutes ago, FoxFingers said:

Hence - two Elisif's co-existing and enabled in-game together at the same time.

 

The lore solution I went looking for is... how did we end up with Two Elisif's?

 

My first thought was, well, a God did it. And that kind of dovetails in with Talos, because Torygg was into Talos and Elisif might be.  Plus Elisif is now a leader.

 

My next thought was the movie Avatar.  There are two Jake Scully characters in the movie, so maybe Vanilla Elisif is asleep and "driving" the combat-ready Avatar.

 

Basically, the player needs to be given a good reason why there are now TWO Elisifs in their game and how they interact is different.  Bonus if it's justified in Lore.

 

Anyways, some great ideas to pursue the angle with here.  Thanks for that!

 

Edit:

Another solution would be to directly Mod the Vanilla Elisif in the base game - change her base Actor class.  I hate to do that because I have a rule about touching none of Bethesda's stuff with edits.

 

Another possible justification of two Elisif's (while more boring, but possibly easier to write) would simply be that she has grown and become more confident due to the player's actions in purging her curse and needs to leave the protection of the Blue Palace for *INSERT INTERESTING STORY REASON HERE*.  The "fake" Elisif in this scenario, as far as the player and the game's story is concerned, would actually be the one sitting in the Blue Palace, while the "real" Elisif goes on her adventure with the player. 

 

I don't see why this adventure would ever need to "end" either (in the scope of a playthrough) - after completion of whatever story you have for her, she could still be available as a regular follower under the stipulation that nothing important enough has happened in Skyrim to force her to return to the Palace and resume direct control, and she trusts her advisers to make day-to-day decisions in her stead while she accompanies the Dragonborn.  This would actually pretty much be true assuming the player is still required to complete the Civil War in the Imperial's favour, since by that point you'd have completed the main Solitude questlines "and" ended the current major political issue in Skyrim, basically making the Blue Palace pointless as a destination beyond turning in radiant quests or buying/changing your player home. 

 

As to who the "fake" Elisif is?  Honestly it could simply be a trusted handmaiden trained by Sybille Stentor (she obviously is not shy at keeping secrets from the rest of the court) who has been altered by a face sculptor.  Face sculptors are 100% lore-friendly, even if they "probably" mostly exist as an excuse for Bethesda to include an in-game way for players to make appearance changes mid-game without console.  

 

 

Agreed that base Elisif shouldn't be modded by AA - I think the changes you want to make to her would be very likely to interfere with other mods that may touch her.... or even worse your changes could get destroyed if a mod makes some minor change to her and is loaded below AA.

 

Of course, no matter how you chose to work your magic I'm sure it will be great to play through... I mean you managed to make a romance story for Borgakh the Steel Heart, if you can do that you could make Sheogorath's voice lines into a romance quest. 

[Veldon]

You could change the storyline a bit and call the new / second Elisif a look-alike, a trickster, an imposter a legacy hunter or something similar.

 

Three options:

1.) The evil way: Help her to trick the Crown or people of Solitude in exchange for her help / service.

2.) The less evil way: Ask her to accompany you and do not trick the Crown or all the people of Solitude, but individual people in Solitude and other cities.

3.) The good way: Hinder her from tricking the Crown or the people of Solitude and help her to escape her dishonourable hanging in exchange for her help / service.

[FoxFingers]

2 hours ago, Reesewow said:

As to who the "fake" Elisif is?  Honestly it could simply be a trusted handmaiden trained by Sybille Stentor (she obviously is not shy at keeping secrets from the rest of the court) who has been altered by a face sculptor.  Face sculptors are 100% lore-friendly, even if they "probably" mostly exist as an excuse for Bethesda to include an in-game way for players to make appearance changes mid-game without console.  

 

 

Oh, the Face Sculptor!  I totally forgot that was a thing.

 

And that would dovetail into the Princess Padme Amidala decoys @worik and @LaEspada were alluding to.

 

Yeah, that would work and be totally Lore Friendly.  I wouldn't even need to make the Player go through Civil War... "Decoy" Vanilla Elisif could just keep doing what she does.

 

I always assumed I'd be using the Vanilla Elisif, until I found out she was essentially useless as a follower. Now I feel like a dumb bunny for having wasted time on Civil War.  But, whatever, Rikke got a little quest out of it.

 

Okay, that's a good angle, I can roll with that.

 

 

 

[FauxFurry]

4 hours ago, FoxFingers said:

Thanks for all the responses to the important question of the day: what to do with Lady Elisif.

 

For technical reasons we have to have Two Elisif's existing in the game simultaneously.  The vanilla Elisif, and the follower adventurer Elisif.

 

I can't just disable the Vanilla Elisif, because invariably some player will un-install this Mod and end-up with no Elisif in their game. Because she will still be disabled.

 

Conversely, vanilla Elisif is completely unsuited to walking around Skyrim's dangerous places. She's not designed for it. So we need an Elisif that can brave Skyrim.

 

Hence - two Elisif's co-existing and enabled in-game together at the same time.

 

The lore solution I went looking for is... how did we end up with Two Elisif's?

 

My first thought was, well, a God did it. And that kind of dovetails in with Talos, because Torygg was into Talos and Elisif might be.  Plus Elisif is now a leader.

 

My next thought was the movie Avatar.  There are two Jake Scully characters in the movie, so maybe Vanilla Elisif is asleep and "driving" the combat-ready Avatar.

 

Basically, the player needs to be given a good reason why there are now TWO Elisifs in their game and how they interact is different.  Bonus if it's justified in Lore.

 

Anyways, some great ideas to pursue the angle with here.  Thanks for that!

 

Edit:

Another solution would be to directly Mod the Vanilla Elisif in the base game - change her base Actor class.  I hate to do that because I have a rule about touching none of Bethesda's stuff with edits.

 

That is pretty much the same trick used for the civil war leader NPCs (there are three Ulfrics...and he's not even using that one Greybeard shout to create a spectral duplicate!) so it is fitting that the one civil war leader who wasn't gifted with multiplicity can have that oversight rectified by way of a mod (like so many things in Skyrim).

[worik]

5 hours ago, FoxFingers said:

Yeah, that would work and be totally Lore Friendly.  I wouldn't even need to make the Player go through Civil War... "Decoy" Vanilla Elisif could just keep doing what she does.

?

I'd be glad if we could skip the war that way  .

Doing the war thing breaks soooo many other mods and for that reason I avoid it as much as possible in my characters.

[worik]

On 5/24/2018 at 6:23 AM, karlpaws said:

There is the shrine of Talos in Falkreath, not far from the Guardian stones with a bunch of dead worshippers. They could be replaced by a live ones and the dead Thalmor there resurrected and moved just a little bit away, enabled and sent to attack as the Hero arrives? Tsalgar is usually wandering around there... maybe he could get script teleported in for use?

Just a side question:

 

Since FF doesn't like to change vanilla records (a treat, that I am a total fan of), would it be possible, that the player needs to visit the vanilla scene first as a prerequisite and depending on this visit the SLAA story unfolds?

That way, it would probably not be too bad if SLAA disables the bodies later and places it's own scenes (and probably NPCs) there?

[karlpaws]

18 minutes ago, worik said:

Just a side question:

 

Since FF doesn't like to change vanilla records (a treat, that I am a total fan of), would it be possible, that the player needs to visit the vanilla scene first as a prerequisite and depending on this visit the SLAA story unfolds?

That way, it would probably not be too bad if SLAA disables the bodies later and places it's own scenes (and probably NPCs) there?

I suppose?

 

Not sure what conflict there would be, as they are not "dead NPCs" but NPC shaped containers as are used in several other places. The Thalmor body is named and has a note, but that does not lead to any quests in vanilla (though I suppose that could be in a mod added quest). I'd think if you kept the note the same and placed it on the NPC, but your idea of visiting the location first makes sense.  I am not sure if there is a way to get whether a location has been discovered or not. Potentially possession of that note could be used as a prerequisite in some way if "is location discovered" is not possible.  If found and trashed, it could be re-added through the console or AddItemMenu for mod users to continue the story-quest chain.

 

Sanyon (not this one ) is the Thalmor's name but UESP doesn't seem to have a page for him, likely as he is dead and never interactable. They do have one for the note found on his body.

 

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Orders

 

 

[seyrens]

Nice a new quest, time to Install my skyrim again.

 

My thoughts about 2 elisif fake route, it's just feel weird if I do all her chain quests just to romance the fake one, feel like betrayed.

well I prefer she just be a simple guest character than a follower, for an escort quest like Tharstan from dragornborn dlc (Lost Legacy).

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, seyrens said:

Nice a new quest, time to Install my skyrim again.

 

My thoughts about 2 elisif fake route, it's just feel weird if I do all her chain quests just to romance the fake one, feel like betrayed.

well I prefer she just be a simple guest character than a follower, for an escort quest like Tharstan from dragornborn dlc (Lost Legacy).

I think the idea is that you romance the "real" one in the first quest chain, and then for the last adventure quest she decides she needs to leave the Blue Palace and asks for your help - at that point the old Elisif NPC is a "fake" for story purposes (different person made to look like Elisif so they don't know she's missing).  So she'll know about your efforts in the first quest chain and you won't be betrayed by a fake.  At least that's my interpretation from what Fox has said so far.

 

The "fake" is only a thing because FF doesn't want to disable/move or alter the actual Elisif NPC in case it breaks other quests or mods.  There are plenty of important NPCs that actually have multiple copies to use in different quests - it is probably easier to do that than program an NPC to act completely differently/wear different items ect in different scenes.

[karlpaws]

4 hours ago, seyrens said:

Nice a new quest, time to Install my skyrim again.

 

My thoughts about 2 elisif fake route, it's just feel weird if I do all her chain quests just to romance the fake one, feel like betrayed.

well I prefer she just be a simple guest character than a follower, for an escort quest like Tharstan from dragornborn dlc (Lost Legacy).

 

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

I think the idea is that you romance the "real" one in the first quest chain, and then for the last adventure quest she decides she needs to leave the Blue Palace and asks for your help - at that point the old Elisif NPC is a "fake" for story purposes (different person made to look like Elisif so they don't know she's missing).  So she'll know about your efforts in the first quest chain and you won't be betrayed by a fake.  At least that's my interpretation from what Fox has said so far.

 

The "fake" is only a thing because FF doesn't want to disable/move or alter the actual Elisif NPC in case it breaks other quests or mods.  There are plenty of important NPCs that actually have multiple copies to use in different quests - it is probably easier to do that than program an NPC to act completely differently/wear different items ect in different scenes.

Even if we're a little fuzzy on when the double is made/on the throne (could be done earlier for war reasons) ...

 

A: the real one could still be targeted by spells in the earlier quests, because magic isn't fooled by outward appearances.

B: real or fake, the Dragonborn is still working on behalf of the Queen, putting life and soul at risk to save someone else, causing the Queen to fall in love

C alternately: real or fake, the Dragonborn has to "save the Queen" to maintain the fiction that the queen is on the throne.

 

-- In either case the real, disguised queen could be nearby (even in the court) to observe and see everything that is happening, potentially signalling the puppet how to rule or respond to petitions and requests. She will see and hear everything the Dragonborn says "to her" and can respond emotionally later.

 

It does make more sense that following the first threat on her life, a double is found to counter further threats. Potentially after the magical attack and rumors of a rising Dark Brotherhood (and depending on the player's actions, death of the Emperor) a double is even more needed. 

 

the emperor had a double and this double was known to the Penitus Oculatus, as Mero makes a comment that he was the most insufferable double to work with.

[worik]

@FoxFingers One thing comes to my mind if you decide to go for the Amidala-style handmaiden/bodyguard plot.

It would be a cool treat to have the AA created Elisif visible in the background of the palace, straight away from the start of the game.

She could do some idle background tasks, apropriate to her cover story. (cooking, cleaning, training, ...)

If the PC asks her about her duties and about her looks, it's the opportunity for some nice side plot dialogues, where she maintains her cover and keeps everyone in the dark.

 

Double cool: random chats with Stentor or Firebeard? They could assign her task, praise her, reprimand her ... which all in fact would be a cover for their real conspritative communication with their true Jarl

 

Triple cool: Extending her AI to go out of the palace to do some errands for the court.... the market, the legion HQ, the clothing shop, .. Maybe wearing a hood at those times? ?

 

Edit:

Quadruple cool: If the un-covering of her identity would come at an unexpected moment, as late as possible. And of course she knows of all those many affairs of the PC (at least with the other Elisif)

But I'm going too far over my head. (consider it minor ramblings of an idle passerby, having too much time while waiting for the bus )

[Reesewow]

47 minutes ago, karlpaws said:

the emperor had a double and this double was known to the Penitus Oculatus, as Mero makes a comment that he was the most insufferable double to work with.

I honestly completely forgot about the Emperor's double, the idea of body doubles for the purposes of security among the royal/political class is obviously not a far-fetched idea in TES.

 

My personal preference would be for the "double" to be placed after the player completes the AA Elisif line, just because to me it seems more interesting that you have been interacting with the same NPC throughout her story.  I like the idea that she really was the naive, somewhat pampered young ruler that you meet and save, and the near death experience and efforts of the PC change her for the better.  "Fake" Elisif can stay on the throne at that point and complain about not getting a parade, I'd like to think the possible future High Queen of Skyrim takes some pointers from the Dragonborn after being rescued.

 

It also would be really cool if after the player completes the current AA questline, but before the "capstone" Elisif quest triggers, a suspiciously familiar scullery maid shows up in the kitchen wearing a chef hat that conveniently hides her hair.  Something for an observant player to notice and wonder at, small details like that can be great.

 

Of course we're all just spitballing ideas here, we'll see what FF comes up with. 

[Juggled]

woooooo a new quest from the master! I haven't played in awhile it's gonna take some time to rebuild my game but i will for sure :)

[Guest]

The easiest would obviously be to break your rule, make Elisif a combat class from the start. Barring that, How about something to do with Sehogorath? He's already connected to the palace. Maybe Elisif has a connection to Pelagious so Sheogorath wanted to keep her nearby, or part of her so he split Elisif in two, a dream state and wake state. As such she's only half the person she's supposed to be.

[Jedi Knight 17]

When will be the new Osa/Clean version released on Nexus?  

[corvinus18]

Dammm man why you come back? are you trying to make me  fall in love with your mod, again? this is a toxic and nice relationship betwen my dragonborn and your mod.

Anyway glad to see youre still active, youre one of my favorites modders of all time.

So thanks.