Deviously Helpless

[Slorm]

I realized only recently that I'm listed in the credits! Here I don't even remember proposing the idea but I sure am glad you turned it into a mod, Srende!

 

After finally getting my Skyrim install up to date mod-wise on Saturday, I've been playing like crazy again and Deviously Helpless has been working flawlessly. I currently have it set so bandits rape when I just have my weapon sheathed, but I think I'm gonna switch it to 'no weapon' and turn on the possibility of dropping weapons when plugs go off. I <3 this mod.

 

I prefer to keep sheathed rather than no weapon as that covers you for both. The drop weapon on vibrate is amazing as it can happen in the middle of a fight and that's where the fun begins

 

[Zsar]

Note: As I do not want to update to SL 1.5+ right now, I am still on 1.11.

 

--

 

Quite the annoyance:

When items are dropped due to plug vibration, the previous set is equipped - and dropped as well, resulting in up to four items dropped and un-favoured.

A fix for this behaviour should be to explicitely unequip the items one by one before dropping them.

 

... It is a bit strange that no one else commented on this, as to my knowledge it is a vanilla Skyrim function: Equipping a right-hand item with two-hand item equipped auto-equips the last left-hand item, uneqipping a two-hand item auto-equips the last left- and right-hand item, etc.

(Thence the fastest way to equip nothing is left-right-right on any either-hand item.)

 

--

 

The "only with no weapons out" setting seems not to work as advertised: While wearing an armbinder promptly triggers the desired behaviour from a number of test bandits, the character without weapons drawn was attacked until death, the same happened when only fists were equipped but drawn.

- Now, several people in this thread have written comments which let me assume that it works for them...

 

Equipping an armbinder after combat with the test bandits has already started consistently shows no trigger either (tested for up to 1/2 minute after equip). Mayhap this helps to pinpoint the root cause?

[Ashra XIII]

After looking over the options, I think I will stick with attacks happening with no weapon drawn, since as @Slorm mentions, it covers both weapon in its sheathe as well as no weapon at all. I also think I'm gonna ease the restriction and let bandits remove Devious Devices irrespective of them having a key, so I don't have another encounter with 5 bandits all getting oral because everything else is blocked.  That's the only part of Devious Devices I don't like... they restrict sexings too much! Obviously this is the point of them, and it's fun in context (for those quests in DD / Captured Dreams / Angrims where the items are recognized), but I get a little tired of wearing them all the time and being restricted for too long.

 

@Zsar I don't know about the weapon dropping/equipping, as I've not personally started playing with that, but in situations outside this mod where my character drops her weapon (such as, say, when a Draugr shout disarms her) she does not automatically equip the next weapon. If I hit my weapon hotkey to equip something, then hit it again, that triggers the last item equipped, but not dropping as far as I know. 

 

The rapings not happening could maybe have something to do with the old Sexlab version. I'm honestly kinda surprised it works at all, since around version 1.3 Ashal changed how mods access the triggers to start sex. Not sure why you wouldn't want to upgrade, since most of the mods on here are updating to keep up anyhow, but I'm guessing you must have some reason.

[Srende]

Note: As I do not want to update to SL 1.5+ right now, I am still on 1.11.

 

--

 

Quite the annoyance:

When items are dropped due to plug vibration, the previous set is equipped - and dropped as well, resulting in up to four items dropped and un-favoured.

A fix for this behaviour should be to explicitely unequip the items one by one before dropping them.

 

... It is a bit strange that no one else commented on this, as to my knowledge it is a vanilla Skyrim function: Equipping a right-hand item with two-hand item equipped auto-equips the last left-hand item, uneqipping a two-hand item auto-equips the last left- and right-hand item, etc.

(Thence the fastest way to equip nothing is left-right-right on any either-hand item.)

 

You're right, it probably could work better. Dropping the secondary weapon set was a rather quick (and temporary™) fix, though nothing more permanent than a temp fix. Ideally it wouldn't drop the second set at all, I'll tinker around with unequipping items first and see where that goes.

Edit: Nope, unequipping them first doesn't seem to be have any effect. Still equips the secondary set as well, so it's staying as it is.

--

 

The "only with no weapons out" setting seems not to work as advertised: While wearing an armbinder promptly triggers the desired behaviour from a number of test bandits, the character without weapons drawn was attacked until death, the same happened when only fists were equipped but drawn.

- Now, several people in this thread have written comments which let me assume that it works for them...

 

I specifically added exception to fists, so the scenes would start with only them "equipped" as dropping weapons generally leaves you with fists out. Where were the bandits you were testing with? There are some enemy groups that don't have all the properties of the regular bandits/forsworn/etc and won't trigger the scenes. Also, I'd like to see a log of that.

 

Equipping an armbinder after combat with the test bandits has already started consistently shows no trigger either (tested for up to 1/2 minute after equip). Mayhap this helps to pinpoint the root cause?

 

If you were in combat with enemies not wearing any items, while the enemies qualified for the scene, it tries to start it anyway. It stops when the equipped item check on you fails, however the enemies won't get added again inside 2 minutes prevent it being too taxing on the system. The wear checks also are done only once per 30 seconds for the same reason. Otherwise it would do those constantly while in combat for example, and it is not exactly a light operation to run all the time.

 

The weapon checks are done in a similar manner as checking enemies, so if those fail, the enemies won't get added at all, which allows them to react instantly on weapon drop for example, instead of waiting for the 2 min. The wear checks on the restraints isn't really feasible to do that way though, so it's done through scripts and so has the 30s cooldown as well.

[Zsar]

Oh, I definitely will update - just not right now.

 

--

 

Mmh, so new idea:

• save the equipped references
• sheathe weapons
• drop the saved items
• do not care about auto-equips (assuming that a reaction can be produced timely enough to prevent re-drawing)
• fulfill the assumption above by directly calling the scene start instead of relying on redundant polling

As polling for something of which one knows exactly when it happens seems to be standard procedure in Papyrus scripting, this may not actually be feasible - there ought to be a reason for that, considering it is definitely not the most intuitive way.

 

--

 

I used the pirates at Haknir's Shoal. At the time in regular play when I became curious enough to switch to testing, they were easiest to reach.

 

--

 

Going to test:

• sheathing weapons
• moving in with no weapons equipped and nothing drawn
• moving in with fists drawn

for at least 30 seconds, some to spare.

 

Just stating for the sake of completeness:

The character currently wears belt, plugs and collar from "The forbidden Tome".

None of these categories is enabled in the DH config.

 

Logs incoming... attached.

 

I did each test two times, with the following timespans:

• 29 seconds (oops)
• 43 seconds

from sheathing to opening the menu to exit.

• 34 seconds
• 40 seconds
• 41 seconds
• 45 seconds

from bandits becoming hostile to opening the menu to exit.

 

--

 

Papyrus logging makes my game laggy, so I usually do not have it enabled.

From the occasion I have garnered info about a couple of other mods, which need maintenance:

• Interesting NPCs - author notified
• ActorEvents - currently unused, will remove for next game
• SexLab: Theft and Seduction - That one is a bit of a bother. Alas.

--

 

ARGH! GODDAMN FORUM SOFTWARE MANGLING MY POSTS!

DH-1.11-ZsarTests.7z

[Srende]

Haknir and other enemies there aren't actually marked as NPCs, so they aren't included when looking for suitable enemies.

 

As for your suggestion about the weapon drops, that's not really doable. The enemies won't get added to the scenes as long as you have weapons equipped (assuming that option is enabled), and so there isn't anything that can be done with them in scripts.

[Srende]

Going to test:

• sheathing weapons
• moving in with no weapons equipped and nothing drawn
• moving in with fists drawn

for at least 30 seconds, some to spare.

 

Just stating for the sake of completeness:

The character currently wears belt, plugs and collar from "The forbidden Tome".

None of these categories is enabled in the DH config.

 

 

 

Well, don't expect anything to happen if any of them aren't enabled.

[Zsar]

Huh? Did we not establish that an equipped item is not supposed to be necessary while the "no weapon equipped"-condition is satisfied?

 

... Alright, again please, if I choose "only with no weapons out", what conditions have to be satisfied exactly to trigger the special behaviour?

- Apparently I am not capable of comprehending the description texts.

 

- Oh wait, more than one post! Grr.

 

Haknir and other enemies there aren't actually marked as NPCs, so they aren't included when looking for suitable enemies.

And yet they work as intended for the armbinder?

 

Alright, will test again with other people.

[Srende]

The equipped DD items are always required. It says something along those lines in the description for the main attack toggle. The weapons are further modifiers on top of that.

 

Edit, haknir the ghost that is. Your original post wasn't that clear before the edit

[Zsar]

Ah. What a shame. Let me test to verify... yes, works as described with a blindfold: Sheathing weapons starts scene, keeping weapons out does nothing.

 

- Huh, well, all is in order then. If, I must say, somewhat unintuitive.

(also sad not to be able to use this as a cheap "you got ambushed" implementation)

 

--

 

addendum:

As for your suggestion about the weapon drops, that's not really doable. The enemies won't get added to the scenes as long as you have weapons equipped (assuming that option is enabled), and so there isn't anything that can be done with them in scripts.

I am not sure I understand. The function, which drops weapons is obviously called on the player (in case of a vibration event).

 

Now, it might be something like this (caution, pseudocode ahead):

function dropPlayerWeapons
  player.drop(player.getEquippedHands()); // assuming the return value to be an array with [0, 2] entries

and surely you can change that to

function dropPlayerWeapons
  array equipped = player.getEquippedHands();
  player.sheatheWeapons();
  for_each(item in equipped): // skips if equipped.length is 0, meaning that nothing is equipped in hands
    player.drop(item); // at this point, while the last set is auto-equipped,
                       // the player is in a valid state due to no weapons drawn

For the second part, it might look somewhat like this:

function prepareForSceneAndExecute
  array aggressors = getValidEnemies();
  // and all other preparations which have to be done beforehand
  // as they must all be completed before the scene starts, this code should be blocking before they have
  startSceneWithActors([player, enemy for enemy in aggressors]); // assuming that the 0 position in the array denotes the victim

function checkForSceneLoop
  every 30 seconds do:
    if(player.checkForValidState()) // depending on MCM setting: item equipped AND condition1 OR condition2
      prepareForSceneAndExecute();  // not happening while player not in valid state

But could as well look like this:

function prepareForSceneAndExecute
  lock(global sceneInProgress, mode='rw'); // as this is now called from two different threads, data races must be avoided
  sceneInProgress = true; // checkForValidState must of course also check !sceneInProgress
  release(sceneInProgress);
  [...] // now do as before

function dropPlayerWeapons
  [...]
  // now we know that the player is in a valid state, as it has just been brought into one
  // so instead of waiting for the polling loop, we call the whole scene stuff right away
  // (checkForValidState should already return false if the scene is running,
  //  but if not it must be modified to do)
  prepareForSceneAndExecute();

function checkForSceneLoop // still needed for cases where a vibration event does not ensure valid state
  // the call within the condition will block while locked by a scene preparation from dropPlayerWeapons
  // and definitely return false here whenever it has been triggered concurrently from there
  [...]
  // the other way around this is not possible already, as dropPlayerWeapon itself is not called
  // once the scene is in progress (for lack of equipped and drawn weapons)

and then could be further refined

function prepareForScene(out array aggressors)
  lock(global sceneInProgress, mode='rw'); // lock preventively as the scene WILL start in a bit
  sceneInProgress = true;
  // do not release the lock here
  execute in as many parallel threads T as appropriate:
    aggressors = getValidEnemies(); 
    // and all other preparations which have to be done beforehand
  return T;

function dropPlayerWeapons
  // we know that the prerequisites for the scene are about to become satisfied
  // (as we will satisfy them in this function)
  // so we can prepare for the scene already
  array aggressors; // again representing all the other prepared data required as well
  threadGroup t = prepareForScene(aggressors); // causes the checkForSceneLoop-thread to lock up

  // the original content of this function
  array equipped = player.getEquippedHands();
  player.sheatheWeapons();
  for_each(item in equipped):
    player.drop(item);

  // now the conditions for a scene start are satisfied and hopefully most of the preparation is done as well
  // so we can start the scene imminently (hopefully sooner than the player can re-draw)

  join(T); // wait for all threads in the parallel preparation to end
  // at this point aggressors is filled with valid data and can be used

  startSceneWithActors([player, enemy for enemy in aggressors]);
  release(global sceneInProgress); // causes the checkForSceneLoop-thread to continue
                                   // could be done sooner but why waste checks for a condition we know to be unsatisfied

function checkForSceneLoop // locks up for the duration of the dropPlayerWeapons-routine as it is not needed in the meanwhile anyway
  [...] // unchanged

I admit that this is all conjecture, as I do not know how things have to be handled within Papyrus, but from my C, Java, Python, etc. experience it is hard to believe that this is not feasible.

[Srende]

The problem is getting a hold of the enemies, currently it's done with a magic effect that does it's own filtering based on the enemy properties and couple of globals that are changed by scripts monitoring the player. One of those being the equipped weapon state. But since the magic effect doesn't get applied to the enemies at all when you have weapons equipped, they also won't be added to the FormList in the script holding all the attackers. It's done that way so the effect is instant (close enough anyway) once your weapons drop, without needing to poll all the enemies every second through scripts.

[Deimo]

Hi, I want to ask if Deviously helpless 1.11A is working with sexlab 1.55 or I can find some issues?

[Srende]

Hi, I want to ask if Deviously helpless 1.11A is working with sexlab 1.55 or I can find some issues?

 

1.11a works with SL 1.55, older ones won't

[Deimo]

 

Hi, I want to ask if Deviously helpless 1.11A is working with sexlab 1.55 or I can find some issues?

 

1.11a works with SL 1.55, older ones won't

 

 

Thank you ^^

[Srende]

A big update, (biggest yet?) to 1.12:

• Added support for followers in human scenes
  • They won't trigger the scenes, but any attackers will use them as well
  • Gold & key stealing and belt stripping applies to them
• Vampire Death hounds are now passive during scenes (along with trained bandit animals from OBIS)
• Rewrote parts of human scenes, should now allow any amount of attackers instead of the previous 20
• Improved scene behaviour if more enemies were added between the previously last attacker finishing and them letting the player go
  • Should prevent them from getting stuck following the player
• Added toggle for removing armbinders during scenes
  • Disabling this requires for the animations to be registered from Zaz and the bound animations to be enabled in DDi
• More weapon drop events in addition to plugs
  • Tripping with leg cuffs
  • Weapon fumble with arm cuffs
  • DDi blindfold trip event
• Changed male only toggle to allowed attacker sex selection, can now choose between both, male or female only attackers
• Tweaked the Draugr plugs
• Tweaked rusty key drops
• Other fixes I forgot to mention

I did rewrite the scripts rather extensively for human scenes to allow better follower support. Without followers however, it should work pretty much as before. Followers will be taken advantage of by most of the enemies usually, however the player gets priority and if there's someone that hasn't used the player yet, all the follower scenes will stop and it'll retry to start a scene for the player. Followers also won't start any attacks, but stripping and stealing applies to them as well if set.

 

Thanks to the new events system in the latest DD - Integration, I've also added couple of events here that can drop weapons (if set) in addition to the plug vibrations.

 

Vampire Death Hounds from Dawnguard, and any trained bandit animals from OBIS should now stay passive during scenes instead of attacking the player if you have those installed.

 

Also, SexLab 1.56 isn't working at all with this, so update if you haven't done so. And if you downloaded SL 1.57 in the first couple of hours it was out, redownload it, or the scenes here will get stuck.

[dje34]

Hmm... Thanks for your good work, Srende ! Your mod is really a useful plugin to Devious frameworks and the updates are most appreciated !

 

Btw, if I uninstall your mod like I do with any other mainstream mod, will I be able to make a clean save ? Because there is nothing about that in OP/Description !

[Srende]

Hmm... Thanks for your good work, Srende ! Your mod is really a useful plugin to Devious frameworks and the updates are most appreciated !

 

Btw, if I uninstall your mod like any other mainstream mod, will I be able to make a clean save ? Because there is nothing about that in OP/Description !

 

Thanks! ^^

I suggest you use the uninstall option in the config first, it makes sure there are no lingering effects on any enemy NPCs or the player.

[Guest]

Thanks Srende for all your hard work.

I love this mod, but currently find that I don't experience it very much. From a role play perspective, once my character has been equipped with items that make enemies automatically rape her, it doesn't make any sense to go dungeoneering. Even from a non-roleplay gameplay perspective, it seems like the mod gives a choice between playing as normal, or walking through every dungeon getting gangbanged instead of having actual combat.

Is there a group of settings you would recommend which would allow someone to experience the mod content while also being able to justify their character's decisions? (Nobody goes to a draugr cavern wearing an armbinder, for example).

[Ashra XIII]

Thanks Srende for all your hard work.

 

I love this mod, but currently find that I don't experience it very much. From a role play perspective, once my character has been equipped with items that make enemies automatically rape her, it doesn't make any sense to go dungeoneering. Even from a non-roleplay gameplay perspective, it seems like the mod gives a choice between playing as normal, or walking through every dungeon getting gangbanged instead of having actual combat.

 

Is there a group of settings you would recommend which would allow someone to experience the mod content while also being able to justify their character's decisions? (Nobody goes to a draugr cavern wearing an armbinder, for example).

 

With the current version, the default settings will result in no rape as long as you keep a weapon (or spell, if that's your thing) in your hand. Of course, if you have a chastity belt and the plugs go off, well you may have trouble doing that which is going to result in some bandit-on-you action

 

My character is currently in such a situation, going through Pinewatch. She doesn't have a belt on, but a previous defeat (caused by Sexlab Defeat) resulted in her having a collar and ring gag, which are enough for bandits to want to rape her with the settings I've chosen. The mod works exactly as advertised: If I keep my weapon out, I'm able to battle bandits as usual, but a couple times when I put the weapon away (which I often do reflexively... it's become a bad habit!) my char has had bandits run right up and catch her off-guard. 

 

I think the only problem I have with the mod at current is that bandits seem to be able to detect the fact that I'm rape bait even when they shouldn't be able to detect me at all; I can be stealthed with no hint of detection (stealth 'eye' is completely closed), but a bandit will come running around a corner to rape me. So I guess if I have any requests, it's to clean that up a bit, but overall I'm really enjoying it!

[Mud]

Thanks Srende for all your hard work.

 

I love this mod, but currently find that I don't experience it very much. From a role play perspective, once my character has been equipped with items that make enemies automatically rape her, it doesn't make any sense to go dungeoneering. Even from a non-roleplay gameplay perspective, it seems like the mod gives a choice between playing as normal, or walking through every dungeon getting gangbanged instead of having actual combat.

 

Is there a group of settings you would recommend which would allow someone to experience the mod content while also being able to justify their character's decisions? (Nobody goes to a draugr cavern wearing an armbinder, for example).

I think the point of this is more to make your attempts to get back to safety more exciting. You're not exactly supposed to go adventuring when you have an armbinder on and can't defend yourself, you're supposed to try to escape wherever it is you got that thing on. I'm pretty much stumped on the draugr since you pretty much have to go looking for them on purpose, but say you have the Zaz cuffs support active and you're a runaway slave from Sanguine's Debauchery, or one of the Submit/Defeat DD mods slapped you with an armbinder and left you in the wilderness. You could just sit there and struggle until you get the armbinder off, or you could make a run back to civilization, struggling every once in a while, and if you should happen to get a little too close to a bandit camp or run into some assailants prowling the roads, well...

[Guest]

 

Thanks Srende for all your hard work.

 

I love this mod, but currently find that I don't experience it very much. From a role play perspective, once my character has been equipped with items that make enemies automatically rape her, it doesn't make any sense to go dungeoneering. Even from a non-roleplay gameplay perspective, it seems like the mod gives a choice between playing as normal, or walking through every dungeon getting gangbanged instead of having actual combat.

 

Is there a group of settings you would recommend which would allow someone to experience the mod content while also being able to justify their character's decisions? (Nobody goes to a draugr cavern wearing an armbinder, for example).

I think the point of this is more to make your attempts to get back to safety more exciting. You're not exactly supposed to go adventuring when you have an armbinder on and can't defend yourself, you're supposed to try to escape wherever it is you got that thing on. I'm pretty much stumped on the draugr since you pretty much have to go looking for them on purpose, but say you have the Zaz cuffs support active and you're a runaway slave from Sanguine's Debauchery, or one of the Submit/Defeat DD mods slapped you with an armbinder and left you in the wilderness. You could just sit there and struggle until you get the armbinder off, or you could make a run back to civilization, struggling every once in a while, and if you should happen to get a little too close to a bandit camp or run into some assailants prowling the roads, well...

 

The thing is that the mod actually makes that scenario safer. If you're already playing with Submit + DD or Sanguine's Debauchery, then Helpless basically makes people no longer what to tie you up/equip devices on you/enslave you. That's why I was wondering whether there's some way to set up the mod to use it alongside adventuring. If I'm in a situation where I have to run away from everything, I'm already screwed if I get too close to an enemy.

[Mud]

That's why I said exciting, not dangerous. Like you say, when you're helpless, you're pretty much screwed. The point of the mod then is to replace being figuratively screwed with being literally screwed. Repeatedly.

[Srende]

Thanks Srende for all your hard work.

 

I love this mod, but currently find that I don't experience it very much. From a role play perspective, once my character has been equipped with items that make enemies automatically rape her, it doesn't make any sense to go dungeoneering. Even from a non-roleplay gameplay perspective, it seems like the mod gives a choice between playing as normal, or walking through every dungeon getting gangbanged instead of having actual combat.

 

Is there a group of settings you would recommend which would allow someone to experience the mod content while also being able to justify their character's decisions? (Nobody goes to a draugr cavern wearing an armbinder, for example).

 

The defaults with the latest version are pretty much what I'd recommend, although I do suggest checking more of the items in the trigger tab of the config. Like Ashra mentioned, the defaults are currently set so that you don't get immediately jumped on, instead only when you don't have a weapon equipped. And with the weapon drop on different device events (vibrations, fumble with arm cuffs and tripping with leg cuffs), those can easily happen middle of combat, suddenly changing the whole situation around. I changed those to defaults so it'd be a bit more forgiving and you can actually play normally (mostly) and still have the attacks happen.

 

Originally the idea for the mod was to add little danger/excitement to when you've already had someone equip you with the items and then left you to your own devices (had to get that in ) trying to get to safety. It grew a bit so now the defaults reflect that with the only unequipped on. It also doesn't really affect the original idea with Armbinder since you don't have weapons with it on anyway.

 

Also, in addition to checking more items to trigger them, the aggressive animation only toggle is handy. Even though it makes more sense to have only aggressive animations happen (and so it's on by default), I usually have it disabled to allow more animation variety.

 

 

Like you say, when you're helpless, you're pretty much screwed. The point of the mod then is to replace being figuratively screwed with being literally screwed. Repeatedly.

 

Mud, mind if I put that in the description?

[Srende]

My character is currently in such a situation, going through Pinewatch. She doesn't have a belt on, but a previous defeat (caused by Sexlab Defeat) resulted in her having a collar and ring gag, which are enough for bandits to want to rape her with the settings I've chosen. The mod works exactly as advertised: If I keep my weapon out, I'm able to battle bandits as usual, but a couple times when I put the weapon away (which I often do reflexively... it's become a bad habit!) my char has had bandits run right up and catch her off-guard. 

 

I think the only problem I have with the mod at current is that bandits seem to be able to detect the fact that I'm rape bait even when they shouldn't be able to detect me at all; I can be stealthed with no hint of detection (stealth 'eye' is completely closed), but a bandit will come running around a corner to rape me. So I guess if I have any requests, it's to clean that up a bit, but overall I'm really enjoying it!

 

 

The problem is that the detection is done with a magic cloak on the player, similar to flame cloak for example, just with a lot longer range. It should respect line of sight, but I'm not sure it is possible to prevent it applying to the enemies (and so starting the scene) if you are sneaking hidden, as long as you have line of sight to them and they are in range, it's going to apply. Preventing it from applying while sneaking would be easy but the hidden/visible distinction is a bit problematic.

 

Hmm. There are couple of conditions I could try on the cloak and see how they behave.

[EternalDamned]

Detected seems to be the condition you want.