MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[Mimirue17]

29 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

True true. 
If you ever want to try a not-a-bimbo playthrough, there is a slider for the trinket drop rate. And they do drop even if defeated via non sexual, CHAK animation-based interactions 

 

Oh, and if you do hook him up with Marina romantically ( not implemented yet, but when it is going to be), he will stay faithful to Marina from that moment on, if his training was completed and validated before you hooking him up with Marina.
No more spicy activity with Viggo from that moment on.
 

oh of course I would respect that relationship as I ship those two 2000%!  Can we have updates from her as well as the times we update her?!  Really hope we get to have a deeper relationship with her, and support her on her new journey!

[JemappelleRedacted]

Went running around South of the Seas: Atoms Storm, took longer than anticipated (including the thrice-damned Atlantic Office's cell crash) so I thought I'd give you a slightly updated track/QoH date dump before I restarted with the latest version (and had to deal with the Concord Idiot Brigade 🙁).

Papyrus.0.log

[Chubrikone]

Just a thought, as I answered few times to some other users, I don't use NR in a normal playthrough (mostly because I always roll with Ivy and she has a quest in NW) but I would like to have the bimbo walk animations. So, this animations are actually in the mod Girly Animations/file MoreGirlyAnimations.esp, would it be possible for your mod to check if it is installed and use the animations from there even if NR is not installed on the save

[MSM_Alice]

The more I think about it, the more a "Proper Lady Protocol" / "Remember the teachings" makes sense as an advantage for the Not A Bimbo track.

 

 

Proper Lady Protocol v1

 

 

Proper Lady Protocol v2

 

Edited June 1 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Went running around South of the Seas: Atoms Storm, took longer than anticipated (including the thrice-damned Atlantic Office's cell crash) so I thought I'd give you a slightly updated track/QoH date dump before I restarted with the latest version (and had to deal with the Concord Idiot Brigade 🙁).

Papyrus.0.log 972.16 kB · 1 download

Thank you, much appreciated. 

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Chubrikone said:

Just a thought, as I answered few times to some other users, I don't use NR in a normal playthrough (mostly because I always roll with Ivy and she has a quest in NW) but I would like to have the bimbo walk animations. So, this animations are actually in the mod Girly Animations/file MoreGirlyAnimations.esp, would it be possible for your mod to check if it is installed and use the animations from there even if NR is not installed on the save

Yes, but the particular ones in nukaride are some older versions that the mod no longer normally surfaces.

Also, that mod replaces he base, so NR does a smart thing with an alternate branch in the player animationtree there the bimbo anims can stay optional and can be turned on/off. And not a hard replace. 
To do it on my own, without NR I will need to learn how to set up such a custom branch to the animation tree, as right now I don't have a good grasp on that. 
 

Edited June 1 by MSM_Alice

[Chubrikone]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Yes, but the particular ones in nukaride are some older versions that the mod no longer normally surfaces.

Also, that mod replaces he base, so NR does a smart thing with an alternate branch in the player animationtree there the bimbo anims can stay optional and can be turned on/off. And not a hard replace. 
To do it on my own, without NR I will need to learn how to set up such a custom branch to the animation tree, as right now I don't have a good grasp on that. 
 

Actually the optional animations called More Girly Animations do not replace directly, there is a holotape that can be used to activate one of the 3 optional moveset for player or companions separately, and the main mod replacer doesn't need to be installed as far as I know

[MSM_Alice]

10 minutes ago, Chubrikone said:

Actually the optional animations called More Girly Animations do not replace directly, there is a holotape that can be used to activate one of the 3 optional moveset for player or companions separately, and the main mod replacer doesn't need to be installed as far as I know

Then, if that mod has script sources,  if I make the mod a requirement, it can probably be done without me having to learn how to setup an animation tree.

[chyoashaun]

11 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Hello and thank you for the feedback.

While there is no super-easy way, immediate to multiply CVT per level, without ensuring some formulas in several subsystems are affected (I'll look  into it, though),  as Mimirue said, there are quite a few ways to simply slow the progression, so the effect would be the same overall. 
The advice in Mimirue's post is great for experimentation.

Extreme events like a trip to BimboLimbo or dealing with Viggo on this optional sexual path ( instead of the normal non sexual path) are indeed events that are meant to generate a lot of advancement, especially at low bimbo levels. 

One question: are non-sexual "sexfights" (using animations from CHAK) a viable way for you to deal with things, normally, but let's say also during infiltrations? Or is the AP cost generally prohibitive for that? I'm thinking to furher lower that. On the Not-A-Bimbo Track

In my mind, the not-a-bimbo bimbo, to minimize sexual activities, would start an infiltration with an enemy or enemy group that is a bit more isolated, then move on with infiltration, extending it occasionally with non sexual interactions. Is that premise working for you, to avoid going through many surrenders, keeping total sexual act count low?

In terms of combining subclasses, Not-ABimbo is thought to go with " agent" as a secondary subclass. 
If telling stories at Marina does not give you enough points to meaningfully level up a secondary specialist class, you can bump up the number of points that you get per "Story" told. 



I am actually considering a Not-ABimbo additional power called "Remember the Teachings," which essentially does a thing similar to what the de-bimbo school does, but can be invoked via the implant anywhere
Perequisites:  Must visit the De-bimbo School at least once ( so can only be used at Bimbo level 1 or above, since before that, the School cannot be visited). 
Perequisites:  This power, when reused, is only half as effective as it was before, so it cannot be abused (but this effectiveness resets on bimbo level-ups (maybe also on the bimboschool visits... will think about it)

Perequisites:  This power cannot be used more than once every X days ( settable in MCM) 

What do you think about it?

 

I have cravings set to 0.3 on my playthrough, and this isn't a cravings challenge.  I like the thought of not a bimbo path trying to stay non-sexual.

 

My challenge is early game I inevitably lose a fight, go to bimbo limbo, and immediately make it to bimbo level 1.  Even with things calmed down, somewhere still at low levels I eventually loses a fight to a group of Raiders, which causes 2-3 aaf scenes (that i recognize should be sexual, as they are raiders) but then I usually am bimbo level 2 already after that 1 loss, as my character can't make it back to marina in time to de-bimbo, as i play a survival game without fast travel.  I try and keep my player as "pure" / non bimbo as long as possible, but after only a few combat losses, and even raising my craving ticks to 300/600, my player succumbs to a high bimbo level by character level 50-60 and much exploration / gameplay remaining.  Once I hit bimbo level 6 I give up, travel to nuka world and go full Nora nuka ride path.

 

I'd like to slow it down more, so a couple losses don't mean im doomed to being a bimbo of high level.

 

I do want to mention that i am curious if the ticks part is not fully working, as even with a higher tick setting i am getting combat surrenders well below the full loss of control vakue i set.

Edited June 1 by chyoashaun
Added info

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, chyoashaun said:

 

I have cravings set to 0.3 on my playthrough, and this isn't a cravings challenge.  I like the thought of not a bimbo path trying to stay non-sexual.

 

My challenge is early game I inevitably lose a fight, go to bimbo limbo, and immediately make it to bimbo level 1.  Even with things calmed down, somewhere still at low levels I eventually loses a fight to a group of Raiders, which causes 2-3 aaf scenes (that i recognize should be sexual, as they are raiders) but then I usually am bimbo level 2 already after that 1 loss, as my character can't make it back to marina in time to de-bimbo, as i play a survival game without fast travel.  I try and keep my player as "pure" / non bimbo as long as possible, but after only a few combat losses, and even raising my craving ticks to 300/600, my player succumbs to a high bimbo level by character level 50-60 and much exploration / gameplay remaining.  Once I hit bimbo level 6 I give up, travel to nuka world and go full Nora nuka ride path.

 

I'd like to slow it down more, so a couple losses don't mean im doomed to being a bimbo of high level.

 

I do want to mention that i am curious if the ticks part is not fully working, as even with a higher tick setting i am getting combat surrenders well below the full loss of control vakue i set.

Let's do a bit of detective work and figure out why the values are  rising.

You can monitor them in the implant menu, and make some inferences on what makes them move one way or another. (All matter except Obedience which is based on submissiveness from SA) 

 

Things of note: 
a. A death / bimbo limbo visit is a big deal and should always cause a level 0 to level 1 move. 
b.  2-3 aaf scenes shouldn't prompt a move from level 1 to level 2, on their own,  on defaults. There's something suspicious there.  There's something hyper special about those raiders, those raiders are super-overleveled. 
Or maybe you did not attempt to fight back with sexfight whatsoever and just.. lost all the challenges in a row? That can cause mindbreak, which can cause sex addiction, and once slut status is attained, and sex addiction is maxed out, CVTs will start rising. 
c. There could be a factor that is set to a higher value than the default, maybe from a previous playthrough. Maybe try resetting the mods MCM ini file  to all defaults across the board?


Best practices for keeping CVTs under control,and do actual classical fighting:

1. Have a follower to help you in combat. Bimbos are not the best fighters. 

2. Invest in the Agent subclass, even just the first skill there improves your ability to hold on to your gun. 
3 . Cravings and CVT progression have some connection:   unmanaged cravings can boost CVT progression. Managing cravings can keep CVTs under control.
4. Wearing level-appropriate bimbo gear can also soothe CVT progression.

5. Not using sex addiction as AP fuels and not using CVT increase  as AP fuels is smart if you want to keep CVTs under control

6. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time on high sex addiction. ( use the dildo friends) 

7. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time at max arousal  ( use the dildo friends) 

8. Replenish your willpower and self-esteem ( use the dildo friends) 
9. Even on survival, Once a level 1 bimbo, if you have  the caps for the school, you have the teleport to Marina button  in your implant ( costs some CVT yes , but if you visit the de-bimbo school you thus offset that increase). Tuition fee e is settable in the mcm to make it match your world's economy. 
10. Manage your looks score ,manicure/pedicure, clothing, piercings, tattoos, makeup, hairdo, skin cleanliness and whatnot so you can win sexfights.  Winning sexfights keeps CVT's much lower than losing sexfights. Carry some alchool , and take a sip before a sexfight  is usually helpful ( if you just keep it on "tipsy" not drunk or hammered).  If you answer most challenges received in a sexfight with normal human partners, that sexfight will create very little depravity/corruption.
11. if  You  are activelly managing the above and sexfight are still impossibly  tough, it is likely you are using some mods that over-level your enemies.  in this case, The base AP cost is MCM settable, to bring this back into a " possible" range.
12. The mod is not tuned to be played at bimbo level 0 end to end.  At least a level up to bimbo level 1 ( moving from non-bimbo to bimbo) is expected at some point.  I have played multiple times till Virgil, and often was not more than bimbo level 3 when that happened, without trying super hard to be "not-a-bimbo", but with occasional visits to the de-bimboschool.

 

 

What makes you think the Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings is the cause of your surrender? 
(O na side note, if you have cravings that are ignored to the point they trigger loss of control events , then those ignored cravings are likely the source of your CVT increases as well)

I trust you are confusing the Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings to more mundane combat surrender. 
Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings is one thing, and yes it will cause you to spontaneously engage in sex with friendlies ( ot , to surrender to enemies, though that too can be toggled on or off.

It is not the ONLY thing that can cause you to surrender to enemies. If you have surrendered to enemies, loss of control ( and its tick thresholds) is not the only possible explanation. 

It can also be that your health is under a threshold where your PC feared for its life and surrendered. It can also be( if you have that toggled oni Violate and SA) perversion s from SA and low willpower, that is a system that acts outside of MSMA altogether?

Can you elaborate more on what makes you think that it was specifically the loss of the control system, due to unmanaged cravings, that was at fault, while the ticks counted were under the threshold,  for your surrender? Are you sure there could not be another event to prompt that surrender, like perversion s from SA and low willpower?




All that being said, I am thinking about a special skill to help Virtue bimbos be less dependent on visits to the de-bimbo school.  See the post above about "Remember the Teachings" skill.

Edited June 1 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

2 hours ago, chyoashaun said:

 

I have cravings set to 0.3 on my playthrough, and this isn't a cravings challenge.  I like the thought of not a bimbo path trying to stay non-sexual.

 

My challenge is early game I inevitably lose a fight, go to bimbo limbo, and immediately make it to bimbo level 1.  Even with things calmed down, somewhere still at low levels I eventually loses a fight to a group of Raiders, which causes 2-3 aaf scenes (that i recognize should be sexual, as they are raiders) but then I usually am bimbo level 2 already after that 1 loss, as my character can't make it back to marina in time to de-bimbo, as i play a survival game without fast travel.  I try and keep my player as "pure" / non bimbo as long as possible, but after only a few combat losses, and even raising my craving ticks to 300/600, my player succumbs to a high bimbo level by character level 50-60 and much exploration / gameplay remaining.  Once I hit bimbo level 6 I give up, travel to nuka world and go full Nora nuka ride path.

 

I'd like to slow it down more, so a couple losses don't mean im doomed to being a bimbo of high level.

 

I do want to mention that i am curious if the ticks part is not fully working, as even with a higher tick setting i am getting combat surrenders well below the full loss of control vakue i set.

I agree with Alice, this is not normal behavior of the mod.   I have huge body counts, in the hundreds actually, and have never made it past bimbo level 5.   Couple of questions regarding how your sex fights are going.

1.  how often do you have AP issues where you end up using the secondary methods of gaining AP all the way down to increased Bimbo Level (which should be the last one used)

2.  set up a hot key for sex attributes and monitor all your stats - how often are any of them low? how often and for how long are you in Slut status?  Have you become Mind Broken any point?

3.  What kind of gear are you using, Same level Bimbo gear? any AP boost gear?

4.  What is QoH saying about the fights? are you getting 'this one is too tough' often?

5.  Are you using alcohol and drugs to help you sexfight?  Wine is your best choice as it adds AP and Calmex is your best drug (Silk Calmex is best option from Nuka World DLC) these will boost your AP for sexfight challenges. (set these on hot keys so you can ger yourself drunk and high at the sign of a fight)

6.  How often are you failing Sex Fight Challenges (turning red and moaning)?

[chyoashaun]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Let's do a bit of detective work and figure out why the values are  rising.

You can monitor them in the implant menu, and make some inferences on what makes them move one way or another. (All matter except Obedience which is based on submissiveness from SA) 

 

Things of note: 
a. A death / bimbo limbo visit is a big deal and should always cause a level 0 to level 1 move. 
b.  2-3 aaf scenes shouldn't prompt a move from level 1 to level 2, on their own,  on defaults. There's something suspicious there.  There's something hyper special about those raiders, those raiders are super-overleveled. 
Or maybe you did not attempt to fight back with sexfight whatsoever and just.. lost all the challenges in a row? That can cause mindbreak, which can cause sex addiction, and once slut status is attained, and sex addiction is maxed out, CVTs will start rising. 
c. There could be a factor that is set to a higher value than the default, maybe from a previous playthrough. Maybe try resetting the mods MCM ini file  to all defaults across the board?


Best practices for keeping CVTs under control,and do actual classical fighting:

1. Have a follower to help you in combat. Bimbos are not the best fighters. 

2. Invest in the Agent subclass, even just the first skill there improves your ability to hold on to your gun. 
3 . Cravings and CVT progression have some connection:   unmanaged cravings can boost CVT progression. Managing cravings can keep CVTs under control.
4. Wearing level-appropriate bimbo gear can also soothe CVT progression.

5. Not using sex addiction as AP fuels and not using CVT increase  as AP fuels is smart if you want to keep CVTs under control

6. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time on high sex addiction. ( use the dildo friends) 

7. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time at max arousal  ( use the dildo friends) 

8. Replenish your willpower and self-esteem ( use the dildo friends) 
9. Even on survival, Once a level 1 bimbo, if you have  the caps for the school, you have the teleport to Marina button  in your implant ( costs some CVT yes , but if you visit the de-bimbo school you thus offset that increase). Tuition fee e is settable in the mcm to make it match your world's economy. 
10. Manage your looks score ,manicure/pedicure, clothing, piercings, tattoos, makeup, hairdo, skin cleanliness and whatnot so you can win sexfights.  Winning sexfights keeps CVT's much lower than losing sexfights. Carry some alchool , and take a sip before a sexfight  is usually helpful ( if you just keep it on "tipsy" not drunk or hammered).  If you answer most challenges received in a sexfight with normal human partners, that sexfight will create very little depravity/corruption.
11. if  You  are activelly managing the above and sexfight are still impossibly  tough, it is likely you are using some mods that over-level your enemies.  in this case, The base AP cost is MCM settable, to bring this back into a " possible" range.
12. The mod is not tuned to be played at bimbo level 0 end to end.  At least a level up to bimbo level 1 ( moving from non-bimbo to bimbo) is expected at some point.  I have played multiple times till Virgil, and often was not more than bimbo level 3 when that happened, without trying super hard to be "not-a-bimbo", but with occasional visits to the de-bimboschool.

 

 

What makes you think the Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings is the cause of your surrender? 
(O na side note, if you have cravings that are ignored to the point they trigger loss of control events , then those ignored cravings are likely the source of your CVT increases as well)

I trust you are confusing the Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings to more mundane combat surrender. 
Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings is one thing, and yes it will cause you to spontaneously engage in sex with friendlies ( ot , to surrender to enemies, though that too can be toggled on or off.

It is not the ONLY thing that can cause you to surrender to enemies. If you have surrendered to enemies, loss of control ( and its tick thresholds) is not the only possible explanation. 

It can also be that your health is under a threshold where your PC feared for its life and surrendered. It can also be( if you have that toggled oni Violate and SA) perversion s from SA and low willpower, that is a system that acts outside of MSMA altogether?

Can you elaborate more on what makes you think that it was specifically the loss of the control system, due to unmanaged cravings, that was at fault, while the ticks counted were under the threshold,  for your surrender? Are you sure there could not be another event to prompt that surrender, like perversion s from SA and low willpower?




All that being said, I am thinking about a special skill to help Virtue bimbos be less dependent on visits to the de-bimbo school.  See the post above about "Remember the Teachings" skill.

Feedback based upon what you provided:

b.  2-3 aaf scenes shouldn't prompt a move from level 1 to level 2, on their own,  on defaults. There's something suspicious there.  There's something hyper special about those raiders, those raiders are super-overleveled. 
Or maybe you did not attempt to fight back with sexfight whatsoever and just.. lost all the challenges in a row? That can cause mindbreak, which can cause sex addiction, and once slut status is attained, and sex addiction is maxed out, CVTs will start rising. 

I believe this was in the USAF base where you get the trinket for Abernathy farm.  I was around level 18, and won every sexfight encounter.  It was 4 raiders I lost two, with 2 1:1 scenes and 1 2:1 scene.  I used the skin cleaning immediately after killing them when the last scene ended.  They were not extremely high level compared to me at the time.

As to the slut status, I do not think I hit slut status for the first time until I was at Bimbo Level 4, around level 40 in game.

c. There could be a factor that is set to a higher value than the default, maybe from a previous playthrough. Maybe try resetting the mods MCM ini file  to all defaults across the board?

I will try and look at the mods MCM file.  In previous playthroughs I normally set everything as slow as possible.



 

Best practices for keeping CVTs under control,and do actual classical fighting:

1. Have a follower to help you in combat. Bimbos are not the best fighters. |
I always have a follower.

2. Invest in the Agent subclass, even just the first skill there improves your ability to hold on to your gun. 
I invested all my points into the Not-A-Bimbo.  I didn't lose fights very often, with the longest being 8 in game days and shortest 4.
3 . Cravings and CVT progression have some connection:   unmanaged cravings can boost CVT progression. Managing cravings can keep CVTs under control.
I didn't have any cravings until Bimbo Level 3, which I then got 3 at nearly the same time.  
4. Wearing level-appropriate bimbo gear can also soothe CVT progression.
I always wore gear at the current Bimbo Level bought from Marina

5. Not using sex addiction as AP fuels and not using CVT increase  as AP fuels is smart if you want to keep CVTs under control

I never used sex addiction as AP, only will power and self esteem.

6. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time on high sex addiction. ( use the dildo friends) 
I didn't have sex very often, and the sex addiction was generally very low.

7. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time at max arousal  ( use the dildo friends) 
I didn't have a lot of time at max arousal, but this may have something to do with it.  As I tried to refrain from having any sex, my arousal usually floated between 40 and 60 at all times.

8. Replenish your willpower and self-esteem ( use the dildo friends) 
I didn't use the Dildo friends, but my willpower and self esteem were generally always maxed out.
9. Even on survival, Once a level 1 bimbo, if you have  the caps for the school, you have the teleport to Marina button  in your implant ( costs some CVT yes , but if you visit the de-bimbo school you thus offset that increase). Tuition fee e is settable in the mcm to make it match your world's economy. 

I tried to refrain from using the bimbo school, just because I wanted a little more challenge.
10. Manage your looks score ,manicure/pedicure, clothing, piercings, tattoos, makeup, hairdo, skin cleanliness and whatnot so you can win sexfights.  Winning sexfights keeps CVT's much lower than losing sexfights. Carry some alchool , and take a sip before a sexfight  is usually helpful ( if you just keep it on "tipsy" not drunk or hammered).  If you answer most challenges received in a sexfight with normal human partners, that sexfight will create very little depravity/corruption.
I didn't have any manicures / pedicures / piercings / makeup / hairdo until around bimbo level 2, and then kept it at mid range until bimbo level 4.  I did keep skin clean at nearly all times.  I won all of the sex fights (as my player had higher AP), but I did only answer around 30-60% (depending on difficulty) of the challenges.
11. if  You  are activelly managing the above and sexfight are still impossibly  tough, it is likely you are using some mods that over-level your enemies.  in this case, The base AP cost is MCM settable, to bring this back into a " possible" range.
12. The mod is not tuned to be played at bimbo level 0 end to end.  At least a level up to bimbo level 1 ( moving from non-bimbo to bimbo) is expected at some point.  I have played multiple times till Virgil, and often was not more than bimbo level 3 when that happened, without trying super hard to be "not-a-bimbo", but with occasional visits to the de-bimboschool.
I was trying to stay at bimbo level 0 as long as possible, and then once at 1, to try and keep it as low as possible as I was trying super hard to be "not-a-bimbo".  I gave up around bimbo level 4.

[chyoashaun]

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

I agree with Alice, this is not normal behavior of the mod.   I have huge body counts, in the hundreds actually, and have never made it past bimbo level 5.   Couple of questions regarding how your sex fights are going.

1.  how often do you have AP issues where you end up using the secondary methods of gaining AP all the way down to increased Bimbo Level (which should be the last one used)

2.  set up a hot key for sex attributes and monitor all your stats - how often are any of them low? how often and for how long are you in Slut status?  Have you become Mind Broken any point?

3.  What kind of gear are you using, Same level Bimbo gear? any AP boost gear?

4.  What is QoH saying about the fights? are you getting 'this one is too tough' often?

5.  Are you using alcohol and drugs to help you sexfight?  Wine is your best choice as it adds AP and Calmex is your best drug (Silk Calmex is best option from Nuka World DLC) these will boost your AP for sexfight challenges. (set these on hot keys so you can ger yourself drunk and high at the sign of a fight)

6.  How often are you failing Sex Fight Challenges (turning red and moaning)?

 

1.  how often do you have AP issues where you end up using the secondary methods of gaining AP all the way down to increased Bimbo Level (which should be the last one used)
I was using secondary methods, but limiting to willpower and self esteem.  The fights were few and far between (commonly multiple in-game days) and both stats recovered to 100 and stayed there very often.

2.  set up a hot key for sex attributes and monitor all your stats - how often are any of them low? how often and for how long are you in Slut status?  Have you become Mind Broken any point?
Very uncommon to be low.  I didn't hit slut status for the first time until Bimbo Level 4.  I was mind broken the first time I went to bimbo limbo, but very infrequently after that.

3.  What kind of gear are you using, Same level Bimbo gear? any AP boost gear?
Always same level bimbo gear, and whenever I leveled up the bimbo level my first trip was back to sanctuary for the next level of gear.

4.  What is QoH saying about the fights? are you getting 'this one is too tough' often?
She did say it was too tough several times, but I commonly still one as most enemies I fought were around my character level.

5.  Are you using alcohol and drugs to help you sexfight?  Wine is your best choice as it adds AP and Calmex is your best drug (Silk Calmex is best option from Nuka World DLC) these will boost your AP for sexfight challenges. (set these on hot keys so you can ger yourself drunk and high at the sign of a fight)
I did not use alcohol and drugs, and beyond the bimbo limbo (I only went to once) I never lost a fight.

6.  How often are you failing Sex Fight Challenges (turning red and moaning)?
I would usually win the challenges around 30-60%, depending on the difficulty.  

 

[chyoashaun]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Let's do a bit of detective work and figure out why the values are  rising.

You can monitor them in the implant menu, and make some inferences on what makes them move one way or another. (All matter except Obedience which is based on submissiveness from SA) 

 

Things of note: 
a. A death / bimbo limbo visit is a big deal and should always cause a level 0 to level 1 move. 
b.  2-3 aaf scenes shouldn't prompt a move from level 1 to level 2, on their own,  on defaults. There's something suspicious there.  There's something hyper special about those raiders, those raiders are super-overleveled. 
Or maybe you did not attempt to fight back with sexfight whatsoever and just.. lost all the challenges in a row? That can cause mindbreak, which can cause sex addiction, and once slut status is attained, and sex addiction is maxed out, CVTs will start rising. 
c. There could be a factor that is set to a higher value than the default, maybe from a previous playthrough. Maybe try resetting the mods MCM ini file  to all defaults across the board?


Best practices for keeping CVTs under control,and do actual classical fighting:

1. Have a follower to help you in combat. Bimbos are not the best fighters. 

2. Invest in the Agent subclass, even just the first skill there improves your ability to hold on to your gun. 
3 . Cravings and CVT progression have some connection:   unmanaged cravings can boost CVT progression. Managing cravings can keep CVTs under control.
4. Wearing level-appropriate bimbo gear can also soothe CVT progression.

5. Not using sex addiction as AP fuels and not using CVT increase  as AP fuels is smart if you want to keep CVTs under control

6. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time on high sex addiction. ( use the dildo friends) 

7. Don't spend lengthy amounts of time at max arousal  ( use the dildo friends) 

8. Replenish your willpower and self-esteem ( use the dildo friends) 
9. Even on survival, Once a level 1 bimbo, if you have  the caps for the school, you have the teleport to Marina button  in your implant ( costs some CVT yes , but if you visit the de-bimbo school you thus offset that increase). Tuition fee e is settable in the mcm to make it match your world's economy. 
10. Manage your looks score ,manicure/pedicure, clothing, piercings, tattoos, makeup, hairdo, skin cleanliness and whatnot so you can win sexfights.  Winning sexfights keeps CVT's much lower than losing sexfights. Carry some alchool , and take a sip before a sexfight  is usually helpful ( if you just keep it on "tipsy" not drunk or hammered).  If you answer most challenges received in a sexfight with normal human partners, that sexfight will create very little depravity/corruption.
11. if  You  are activelly managing the above and sexfight are still impossibly  tough, it is likely you are using some mods that over-level your enemies.  in this case, The base AP cost is MCM settable, to bring this back into a " possible" range.
12. The mod is not tuned to be played at bimbo level 0 end to end.  At least a level up to bimbo level 1 ( moving from non-bimbo to bimbo) is expected at some point.  I have played multiple times till Virgil, and often was not more than bimbo level 3 when that happened, without trying super hard to be "not-a-bimbo", but with occasional visits to the de-bimboschool.

 

 

What makes you think the Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings is the cause of your surrender? 
(O na side note, if you have cravings that are ignored to the point they trigger loss of control events , then those ignored cravings are likely the source of your CVT increases as well)

I trust you are confusing the Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings to more mundane combat surrender. 
Loss of control due to unmanaged cravings is one thing, and yes it will cause you to spontaneously engage in sex with friendlies ( ot , to surrender to enemies, though that too can be toggled on or off.

It is not the ONLY thing that can cause you to surrender to enemies. If you have surrendered to enemies, loss of control ( and its tick thresholds) is not the only possible explanation. 

It can also be that your health is under a threshold where your PC feared for its life and surrendered. It can also be( if you have that toggled oni Violate and SA) perversion s from SA and low willpower, that is a system that acts outside of MSMA altogether?

Can you elaborate more on what makes you think that it was specifically the loss of the control system, due to unmanaged cravings, that was at fault, while the ticks counted were under the threshold,  for your surrender? Are you sure there could not be another event to prompt that surrender, like perversion s from SA and low willpower?




All that being said, I am thinking about a special skill to help Virtue bimbos be less dependent on visits to the de-bimbo school.  See the post above about "Remember the Teachings" skill.

I noticed I forgot to respond to the loss of control due to unmanaged cravings.  I set it to 500 for partial and 1000 for total.  At some points, when still around 300-400 ticks for a maximum of any craving, when going into combat and firing the first shot, the character would say "fuck this, I need to get laid" or something in that vain and immediately surrender, even with me being at full health and the threshholds in AAF Violate being at what the mod set them to.

[MSM_Alice]

1.0742
New test version, mainly centered around buffing the Not-A-Bimbo specialist class
 

 

• - First skill on that track, " Time for Action" now also unlocks the option to remember the teachings of the De-Bimbo School (provided it was visited at least once), allowing for CVT reductions "in the field". 
  • Activating that skill, once unlocked, is done from the implant context menu. 
  • Its base strength is half of what the De-bimbo school does. 
  • Using has no cost, but it is less and less effective each time (its effectiveness is reduced by half each time it is used)
  • Visiting the de-bimbofication school properly ( fee and all)  resets the strength of this skill back to max. 
  • If you lose your points on the not a bimbo track below 10 points,, the skill will become unusable once again.
•  The  Not-A-Bimbo track specialist skill,  "I just need to THINK",  where you recover the Intelligence lost (4 th on that track), now also increases the max number of Bimbo Specialist points one can get from dialogues from max 60 to max 120, to illustrate the recovered learning capacity. This increased maximum is permanent, remains so, even if you later might lose specialist points on this specialist track.
• The  Not-A-Bimbo track specialist skill,  "That's not happening",   (3rd  on that track), means you get one free visit to the de-bimbo school each bimbo level.
• "Jizz In their pants" and "More Jizz In their pants"  skills  get boosted, as the AP cost for non sexual challenges is not merely halved as it was before, but divided by 3 (each time). 

 

See download link  a few posts below, here: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/245511-msma-sexfight-like-succubus-drain-and-bimbofication/page/169/#findComment-7312118

 

 

Edited June 1 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

15 minutes ago, chyoashaun said:

I noticed I forgot to respond to the loss of control due to unmanaged cravings.  I set it to 500 for partial and 1000 for total.  At some points, when still around 300-400 ticks for a maximum of any craving, when going into combat and firing the first shot, the character would say "fuck this, I need to get laid" or something in that vain and immediately surrender, even with me being at full health and the threshholds in AAF Violate being at what the mod set them to.

If the current pool was 400 and the limit was 500, it could be that the current update just added 100, which took you over the threshold and caused the surrender.
Looks possible.

You can turn off Suerender based on this if you want to.
 

Edited June 1 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

8 minutes ago, chyoashaun said:

 

1.  how often do you have AP issues where you end up using the secondary methods of gaining AP all the way down to increased Bimbo Level (which should be the last one used)
I was using secondary methods, but limiting to willpower and self esteem.  The fights were few and far between (commonly multiple in-game days) and both stats recovered to 100 and stayed there very often.

2.  set up a hot key for sex attributes and monitor all your stats - how often are any of them low? how often and for how long are you in Slut status?  Have you become Mind Broken any point?
Very uncommon to be low.  I didn't hit slut status for the first time until Bimbo Level 4.  I was mind broken the first time I went to bimbo limbo, but very infrequently after that.

3.  What kind of gear are you using, Same level Bimbo gear? any AP boost gear?
Always same level bimbo gear, and whenever I leveled up the bimbo level my first trip was back to sanctuary for the next level of gear.

4.  What is QoH saying about the fights? are you getting 'this one is too tough' often?
She did say it was too tough several times, but I commonly still one as most enemies I fought were around my character level.

5.  Are you using alcohol and drugs to help you sexfight?  Wine is your best choice as it adds AP and Calmex is your best drug (Silk Calmex is best option from Nuka World DLC) these will boost your AP for sexfight challenges. (set these on hot keys so you can ger yourself drunk and high at the sign of a fight)
I did not use alcohol and drugs, and beyond the bimbo limbo (I only went to once) I never lost a fight.

6.  How often are you failing Sex Fight Challenges (turning red and moaning)?
I would usually win the challenges around 30-60%, depending on the difficulty.  

 

the one concern I have from your answers is you say you only answer challenges 30-60% of the time.   That is a very low percentage as on a normal fight with similiar level enemies it should be easy to have a 75-100% success rate.   That means that all your sexfights are lasting longer then normal, which would increase the depravity and cvt increase chance every fight.   

How often are you failing to answer challenges to lack of AP? or is it not answering the challenge in a timely matter?

How often is the overall timer kicking in (150 seconds by default) and ending the scene?

Are the QoH messages 'you really blow that one's mind' or 'that one is done' the normal for every enemy you sexfight?

-as a sub note (the QoH mentions this as well) are you using the Mantras to effect who is being targeted?  If challenges are happening on non beaten foes only it will be more successful. 

By default the system will end all sexfights when all enemies are beaten, have you changed this by chance?

 

for testing I would monitor your core sexfight stats after each fight (might take a minute or two for it to update after the scenes) and watch your cvt progress.   I would also use the implant option to display last fight information - in there will be a lot of useful information about how the scene went.   Maybe take a screenshot of that the next time you have a sexfight and it might provide more information on what could be suggested to increase your enjoyment of this system.

 

There are other settings that can be tweaked to lower your chances of leveling up, but need more information on the root cause of this behavior before any can be suggested.

[Mimirue17]

I think I will run a new game on this specialist choice to test it out further (have never gone this route) to see if there is any weird effects going on.   As I am normally set up for a sex heavy game, should be able to handle all the sexfights if they happen fairly easily so can see if that leaves the bimbo level very low for most of the time.

[Mimirue17]

also I find this appropriate for a female protagonist game, just thought I would mention it.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/105458

[MSM_Alice]

22 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

the one concern I have from your answers is you say you only answer challenges 30-60% of the time.   That is a very low percentage as on a normal fight with similiar level enemies it should be easy to have a 75-100% success rate.   That means that all your sexfights are lasting longer then normal, which would increase the depravity and cvt increase chance every fight.   

How often are you failing to answer challenges to lack of AP? or is it not answering the challenge in a timely matter?

How often is the overall timer kicking in (150 seconds by default) and ending the scene?

Are the QoH messages 'you really blow that one's mind' or 'that one is done' the normal for every enemy you sexfight?

-as a sub note (the QoH mentions this as well) are you using the Mantras to effect who is being targeted?  If challenges are happening on non beaten foes only it will be more successful. 

By default the system will end all sexfights when all enemies are beaten, have you changed this by chance?

 

for testing I would monitor your core sexfight stats after each fight (might take a minute or two for it to update after the scenes) and watch your cvt progress.   I would also use the implant option to display last fight information - in there will be a lot of useful information about how the scene went.   Maybe take a screenshot of that the next time you have a sexfight and it might provide more information on what could be suggested to increase your enjoyment of this system.

 

There are other settings that can be tweaked to lower your chances of leveling up, but need more information on the root cause of this behavior before any can be suggested.

A below 50% respose rate means there is for sure some serious corruption effects from that fight.  For max resistance to corruption effects,  if the sexfight is started, then the challenge response better be as close to perfect as possible.
When more than half of the challenges are lost, the implant assumes you're just in it for one's own hedonistic pleasure, not really making an earnest attempt to diligently defeat one's enemies. 

Also, having several days between AAF scenes at level 2 or 3 or 4, and 400 ticks on loss of control, means there were some unmanaged cravings left there.
To me is clear that these are the likely sources of extra CVT increases. 


Not visiting the de-bimbo school at all is also for sure a challenge for any specialist bimbo subclass,  but for the not-a bimbo, denying the de-bimbo school is particularly hard. A challenge it was indeed. 

It should be easier now with "remember the teachings,"  though, and the expanded subclass max skill pool.
The expanded subclass skill allows to combine the "succubus mesmerize"  agent skill with the not-a-bimbo non-sexual skills, essentially making it possible to do non-sex-based infiltrations without a classic violate surrender at the start all (for human or human-compatible interactions though).

Edited June 1 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

22 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

A below 50% respose rate means there is for sure some serious corruption effects from that fight.  For max resistance to corruption effects,  if the sexfight is started, then the challenge response better be as close to perfect as possible.
When more than half of the challenges are lost, the implant assumes you're just in it for one's own hedonistic pleasure, not really making an earnest attempt to diligently defeat one's enemies. 

Also, having several days between AAF scenes at level 2 or 3 or 4, and 400 ticks on loss of control, means there were some unmanaged cravings left there.
To me is clear that these are the likely sources of extra CVT increases. 


Not visiting the de-bimbo school at all is also for sure a challenge for any specialist bimbo subclass,  but for the not-a bimbo, denying the de-bimbo school is particularly hard. A challenge it was indeed. 

It should be easier now with "remember the teachings,"  though, and the expanded subclass max skill pool.
The expanded subclass skill allows to combine the "succubus mesmerize"  agent skill with the not-a-bimbo non-sexual skills, essentially making it possible to do non-sex-based infiltrations without a classic violate surrender at the start all (for human or human-compatible interactions though).

That was what I was thinking as well.   Wondering if a mix of Agent and Not-a-Bimbo would be more appropriate for the play style that was described.   I will find out as I will try the Not-a-Bimbo for the 1st time so will see some of the challenges that style has.   Maybe lean into a mix at first then finish with mainly Not-a-Bimbo.   Will look at the skills in those fields a little more closely as I normally lean towards Power mixed in with Airhead (level 6 skill here is the goal so you can mix humans with SM and still be effective without having to see Marina to resize or have hard time with puny humans after SM gangbangs)

[chyoashaun]

43 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

the one concern I have from your answers is you say you only answer challenges 30-60% of the time.   That is a very low percentage as on a normal fight with similiar level enemies it should be easy to have a 75-100% success rate.   That means that all your sexfights are lasting longer then normal, which would increase the depravity and cvt increase chance every fight.   

How often are you failing to answer challenges to lack of AP? or is it not answering the challenge in a timely matter?

How often is the overall timer kicking in (150 seconds by default) and ending the scene?

Are the QoH messages 'you really blow that one's mind' or 'that one is done' the normal for every enemy you sexfight?

-as a sub note (the QoH mentions this as well) are you using the Mantras to effect who is being targeted?  If challenges are happening on non beaten foes only it will be more successful. 

By default the system will end all sexfights when all enemies are beaten, have you changed this by chance?

 

for testing I would monitor your core sexfight stats after each fight (might take a minute or two for it to update after the scenes) and watch your cvt progress.   I would also use the implant option to display last fight information - in there will be a lot of useful information about how the scene went.   Maybe take a screenshot of that the next time you have a sexfight and it might provide more information on what could be suggested to increase your enjoyment of this system.

 

There are other settings that can be tweaked to lower your chances of leveling up, but need more information on the root cause of this behavior before any can be suggested.

Combining responses to two posts-

The two to three days+ between intercourse at Bimbo Levels 2,3 and 4, there were not any cravings yet at those points.

However, I think this hit the nail in the coffin of what might be happening:

That means that all your sexfights are lasting longer then normal, which would increase the depravity and cvt increase chance every fight.   

I have all of my AAF scenes set to 120 seconds, and not ending when winning, so they continue the full 120 seconds even if other party lost 20 seconds in.  Is it possible the extra 100 seconds is adding a massive amount of depravity / CVT scores and is what is throwing it off?

[Mimirue17]

6 minutes ago, chyoashaun said:

Combining responses to two posts-

The two to three days+ between intercourse at Bimbo Levels 2,3 and 4, there were not any cravings yet at those points.

However, I think this hit the nail in the coffin of what might be happening:

That means that all your sexfights are lasting longer then normal, which would increase the depravity and cvt increase chance every fight.   

I have all of my AAF scenes set to 120 seconds, and not ending when winning, so they continue the full 120 seconds even if other party lost 20 seconds in.  Is it possible the extra 100 seconds is adding a massive amount of depravity / CVT scores and is what is throwing it off?

These two things are likely the cause of the unusual behavior that you have described.   Try turning that back to default (end on all foes defeated) and you will likely fix the issue, as was pointed out you are likely tricking the implant into thinking you are not really trying and are a depraved sex addict.   Lets see if this fixes the issue, then if you would still like a bit more of a challenge resulting in tougher/longer fights then you can adjust some settings to make things require a lot more effort to win sexfights.

[MSM_Alice]

12 minutes ago, chyoashaun said:

Combining responses to two posts-

The two to three days+ between intercourse at Bimbo Levels 2,3 and 4, there were not any cravings yet at those points.

However, I think this hit the nail in the coffin of what might be happening:

That means that all your sexfights are lasting longer then normal, which would increase the depravity and cvt increase chance every fight.   

I have all of my AAF scenes set to 120 seconds, and not ending when winning, so they continue the full 120 seconds even if other party lost 20 seconds in.  Is it possible the extra 100 seconds is adding a massive amount of depravity / CVT scores and is what is throwing it off?

if you are not answering the challenges, then yes.

A sexfight with 100% respose rate generally is seen as pretty virtuous since you mean business with that 100% response rate.
A 30% respose rate (especially if you could have easily responded) is seen as hedonistic, so it will create more depravity/CVT increases.. 

[MSM_Alice]

1.0743-
fixing as I had forgotten to add that "free school admittance once per bimbolevel "  condition if NotABimbo at  skill level 3 ( called "Thatt's not happening") or higher.

 

 

Edit: now on the main page. 

 

Edited June 2 by MSM_Alice