Veladarius Posted December 12, 2014 Author Posted December 12, 2014 I finally managed to get released from the free trial and started the expansion quests yesterday. The first one is ok, the purpose is to introduce the mind control artefact. unfortunately it does not involve the player too much. (I would have to try with the other jarl.) The second one works pretty well, I got stuck just 3 times: 1st in the cell after the fisting, the guard awaking with water got imprisoned with me in the cell i had to open the door with the console command to let him out and progress in the quest by touching the chair. The next issue was on the horse torture thing… the character just got stuck instead of climbing it. (then I reloaded and it worked, beside the misalignment with all 3 devices, just the pole was aligned correctly). Then it was quite late but I wanted to try the next phase. The dinner was ok but when in Elenwin chambers, after the first sex scene she puts the armbinder and something goes wrong. The arms are cut at elbows and I got control of the character. Being able to start dialogues and going around. At first I thought that she dismissed me and I had to make return to master. As I told you it was very late and I couldn’t reload and try again. I will do it tonight if I can. All of this without a single CDT, instead when I enter the shop I always have the risk, at least 50% of CDT. (when I enter I can see for a few seconds the naked slaves and only after a few time the devices applied to them… I think there are too many objects for my pc). Now i am afraid that with the increased number of people around it will be impossible for me to get even close to the shop from the outside. If you get control of your character and you think you should not have you can disable them in the MCM menu. As for the exterior of the expanded shop, the npc's there (along with most of the other new npc's) have versions of most of the restraints that have no scripts, the only things that are active are the belts and plugs.
eric_starbuck Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I have just tried the third mission and saw the expanded village without any issue... just low framerate... now I am returning from solitude but each time I try to open the shop door I got a CDT. Not even the smithy with all the plugs and belts on the table gives me issues. just the shop. Concerning the Like/dislike of the second quest, I liked it a lot but it should be given to submissive characters only. Considering how she behaved so far i would guess my nord liked the adventure and maybe in her deep she is still dreaming to sleep on the floor at Elenwen's feet. What i can suggest you to implement in future quests, is the gameplay, this was more like watching a movie than playing a videogame. I know that slave tasks could be boring to play... I don't know how to do it. this is just what it crossed my mind during my test.
Stratelates Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I may have found a bug in the free trial, during the free trial I did a recovery mission, and upon returning from that the Master used the confiscation rule ..... giving me trouble about items in my inventory (which were the ones she put on me) and adding onto the 'trial' period.
eric_starbuck Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Ah now i remember, I had a "minor" bug at the end of expansion mission 2: when they returned my gear, it appears i had some keys, so leg and arm bands have been automatically unequipped.
zenetx Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Wait, wait, wait! Are we finally discussing the content in the last expansion and not technical problems? Oh good Lord! How I had to wait for this moment. So here we go:First, I believe this mod is the perfect combination to the fetishist characteristic of Devious Devices, which is already well unique on itself compared to the vast majority of slave mods theme. It Is obviously a matter of personal taste, but I think most of "slave mods" boring and this one much more fun and interesting. About the second expansion quest (embassy) controversy: without doubt it's for submissive characters, but just as the fourth quest (the surprise) is for dominating ones. Despite not knowing Vel's intention I consider all this last expansion as a "training phase", which the player goes through several different experiences in order to find your favorite affinity, and not really a endgame where the player "reap what she sow", therefore it makes sense to not restrict quests. Talking about the lack of gameplay, I believe this mod has the best balance between scenes and gameplay, there are some long scenes but they are made with mastery, a special mention for the walking fast forwards (Thank you so much Vel). About the violence, the strong one would be the almost nonconsensual embassy gangbang scene, I have to admit. Though somehow it is well balanced with the caring and I dare say loving Elenwen mistress attitude, one thing I always missed in the Master (keep reading). My biggest complaint about this mod, mainly before that last expansion, was the attitude of Master of CD shop, which looked more like of a trader instead actually of a master. This can be very difficult to discuss but think this way: the player has the option to say "I like the feeling of being whipped" and yet the whipping scenes are seen exclusively as punishment. This can make a bit of sense at first, but not long term. Another example is the supposedly punitive posture collar, which is only used by the master when you really disappoint her, yet in the end of the expansion when the Master's lover appears (which would be the person she likes best), she is using the same collar! In my view this collar obviously should be a reward if you had a great master relationship.In any case I believe the things are going the right way every new content, with the Master having the right reactions that matches its position (an excellent example is the free trial quest!).I'm still looking forward for the endgame of this epic mod! What are you guys expecting?
Kendo 2 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 What bothers me the most about Master is the one-sided aspect, all punishment/no reward and her acting like she's doing you a favor by removing the items she put on you in the first place. A handful of leveled gold IS NOT a reward by any stretch of the means. In any Dom/Sub relationship there is punishment and reward (usually oral performed by the Dom on the Sub, or that's how it works in RL anyway.) And no one, no matter how submissive, would tolerate a Dom stealing from them. With over half of the stunts Master pulls, the Sub would most likely say 'You know what? FUCK YOU.' and walk away. If that were to happen, word would spread pretty fast and before long Master wouldn't have any Subs. No one would trust her. I KNOW this is a game and a fantasy setting for BDSM. Regardless there are RULES that cannot be broken. The BIGGIE is violating someone's limits or ignoring their safe word. That's two thing missing in this mod, imho. Limits (this is what we agree to) and safe words (No means NO.) Anyway, I'm looking forward to the part in the mod where the player can be Master's slave. I HOPE there is more to it than her just slapping a belt on the player and thinking it's cute or funny. That's gonna get old pretty quick. I would like to see elements of what a real Dom/Sub relationship is; play time discipline and punishment along with the required aftercare to keep the Sub interested. Just my two cents...
zenetx Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 @Kendo: Yes, it is exactly this problem my biggest complaint. Although if you think about it, makes sense in the beginning, you are not a master slave (yet), so she simply does not care. Quoting a in game dialogue: "..is nothing definitive, she is just paying a debt." Perhaps the most tasteless thing is the confiscation event immediately followed by "pay me if you want me to untie you" (!). So my great expectation for what Vel has in mind, the latest changes have been very good in this sense: as the free trial quest aforementioned or the new possibility of making quests gagged (although strangely Master removes it as you turn in the quest, perhaps a remnant of the mod old mechanics).
aqqh Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 What bothers me the most about Master is the one-sided aspect, all punishment/no reward and her acting like she's doing you a favor by removing the items she put on you in the first place. A handful of leveled gold IS NOT a reward by any stretch of the means. In any Dom/Sub relationship there is punishment and reward (usually oral performed by the Dom on the Sub, or that's how it works in RL anyway.) And no one, no matter how submissive, would tolerate a Dom stealing from them. With over half of the stunts Master pulls, the Sub would most likely say 'You know what? FUCK YOU.' and walk away. If that were to happen, word would spread pretty fast and before long Master wouldn't have any Subs. No one would trust her. are you proposing the idea of master having an affair with PC? Me likes it...
Veladarius Posted December 12, 2014 Author Posted December 12, 2014 Yes, the Master does act more like a merchant than a master towards the player but there are a few reasons (in game and out): 1- I have not updated the dialogue much. Originally the Expansion was to have quite a bit more content and new dialogue but it was taking quite a long time to do. In the end I decided to focus on the Expansion of the shop itself and a few new things since any expansion of her dialogue would likely be redone again with the player slavery. I plan on adding more dialogue options to most everything to expand the 2- She has a business to run. Face it, the player at this point is contracted for individual jobs and not an employee of the shop nor a slave to the Master. If something happens to you and you fail / die / run off / whatever then she has to do a better job of picking someone for the task at hand. 3- Personally, you are a toy to amuse her. You have caught her interest and she wants to have a bit of fun with you, hopefully you will be interesting enough to keep around. If you turn out to be the sort of person she hopes you will she will have need of you in the future. If she didn't have an interest in you she would not do a number of the things she does to you. Once the relationship becomes more than business then the dialogue will get more personal. Dialogue takes time to write and set up, most of what is here has been rewritten several times before it was released (and some a few times after). There is several thousand lines of npc dialogue (nearly 5000 I think) and it isn't always easy getting into the proper mindset for each way of thinking.
Verstort Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I have just tried the third mission and saw the expanded village without any issue... now I am returning from solitude but each time I try to open the shop door I got a CDT. Not even the smithy with all the plugs and belts on the table gives me issues. just the shop. This sounds like the old CTD bug which resulted from installing a CD addon for integrating another mod, like Newmiller piercings, but without the base mod to support the addon. Didn't the game crash trying to load items that didn't exist when you enter the shop in older versions? Pretty sure if you tried that now the game wouldn't load at all past the main menu, though. Other than the master living in the house instead of the shop, what other changes happen to the shop after quest 3? I thought I saw item ownership changes, but nothing was added right?
Kendo 2 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 3- Personally, you are a toy to amuse her. You have caught her interest and she wants to have a bit of fun with you, hopefully you will be interesting enough to keep around. If you turn out to be the sort of person she hopes you will she will have need of you in the future. If she didn't have an interest in you she would not do a number of the things she does to you. This is where I hit a snag with the mod. Believe it or not, really prime Subs are a commodity that Doms want. They are never taken for granted in the way you're describing. That might be the case sometimes with Subs and Doms who have real world relationships and engage in play as a side line, but as a 'rule' (as far as the club scene goes) choice Subs are looked after and protected from sadists and amateurs. BUT, again that is real life and not a game mod.
aqqh Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 i can agree... but the point is at the early stage of this story she simply do not care much about you. You would decide to walk? Whatever. She would just look for someone else. You're just a tool that she intends to use to reach her goal. It takes time to convince her that you are not just "another courier" asking for a job. And once you prove yourself worthy of attention this attitude of hers would likely change. guess it may be said that she is arrogant but not ignorant.
Verstort Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 I can't begin to compare this mod to a real world situation; This is a fantasy mod in a fantasy game. I can't bring realism into this discussion without rolling my eyes. From my perspective master isn't even really a dom; she uses magic and restraints to subvert people to her will, not dominance. It takes less effort and skill to use a tool to enforce your will on someone, especially a collar that restricts that uses ancient magic to bend their will and the use of gags to prevent dialog and conversation. Real doms don't need bondage at all, at most they need symbolic assistance. It seems more acceptable of her personality when you realize she didn't really earn her congregation. Yes, I agree with everyone here, master doesn't take care enough of her slaves. She leaves her display slaves in their bondage forever without any interaction with their master. She doesn't seem to reward her slaves unless you count giving them long term slave roles like the ability to work for her, or the way her actor spawns in Tessi's room, which just leaves room for the imagination at best. She doesn't engage in any real dialog with her slaves, including the player, which makes it hard to imagine her as anything but a dictator, but this is a video game mod. Most of the stuff needed to change my impression of her at she is now is a lot of work because it's subtle, adding not one line of dialog but 200, complicating her character's path and events by a whole order of magnitude, doing the whole skyrim thing by adding little tasteful items to the world to make it feel more immersive. All of that is work, and work that many people are likely to miss anyway. What I mean is this is BDSM, where some things are implicit and subversive, the little details are almost more important than the obvious. Vel already has his hands full and this mod has already grown to be huge. At some point you have to drop lesser content or nothing gets done at all. His list of changes for the next version doesn't look like a list of upgrades so much as a list of additional mods to make. Seriously, this mod is growing larger than most whole games on the same subject. Then again Vel might have been going for this angle anyway, limiting master's personality because he planned to bring it up in some quest later in the expansion. I was always under the assumption that master was going to get some character development when reading Vel's plans for the expansion back before 3.X, we just haven't seen those parts yet because vel split the expansion into two or more pieces. For some reason I have memory of a spoiler about the expansion that Vel posted ages ago where master was bound on the floor of her own house, but that might have just been my imagination.
Jayleia Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 Wait, wait, wait! Are we finally discussing the content in the last expansion and not technical problems? Oh good Lord! How I had to wait for this moment. So here we go: First, I believe this mod is the perfect combination to the fetishist characteristic of Devious Devices, which is already well unique on itself compared to the vast majority of slave mods theme. It Is obviously a matter of personal taste, but I think most of "slave mods" boring and this one much more fun and interesting. About the second expansion quest (embassy) controversy: without doubt it's for submissive characters, but just as the fourth quest (the surprise) is for dominating ones. Despite not knowing Vel's intention I consider all this last expansion as a "training phase", which the player goes through several different experiences in order to find your favorite affinity, and not really a endgame where the player "reap what she sow", therefore it makes sense to not restrict quests. Talking about the lack of gameplay, I believe this mod has the best balance between scenes and gameplay, there are some long scenes but they are made with mastery, a special mention for the walking fast forwards (Thank you so much Vel). About the violence, the strong one would be the almost nonconsensual embassy gangbang scene, I have to admit. Though somehow it is well balanced with the caring and I dare say loving Elenwen mistress attitude, one thing I always missed in the Master (keep reading). I was kinda shocked to get that kind of feeling from Elenwen...especially given our previous...interactions and what my character knows of her enthusiastic interrogation procedures. I would REALLY like to explore that dynamic in future interactions. What bothers me the most about Master is the one-sided aspect, all punishment/no reward and her acting like she's doing you a favor by removing the items she put on you in the first place. A handful of leveled gold IS NOT a reward by any stretch of the means. In any Dom/Sub relationship there is punishment and reward (usually oral performed by the Dom on the Sub, or that's how it works in RL anyway.) And no one, no matter how submissive, would tolerate a Dom stealing from them. With over half of the stunts Master pulls, the Sub would most likely say 'You know what? FUCK YOU.' and walk away. If that were to happen, word would spread pretty fast and before long Master wouldn't have any Subs. No one would trust her. I KNOW this is a game and a fantasy setting for BDSM. Regardless there are RULES that cannot be broken. The BIGGIE is violating someone's limits or ignoring their safe word. That's two thing missing in this mod, imho. Limits (this is what we agree to) and safe words (No means NO.) Anyway, I'm looking forward to the part in the mod where the player can be Master's slave. I HOPE there is more to it than her just slapping a belt on the player and thinking it's cute or funny. That's gonna get old pretty quick. I would like to see elements of what a real Dom/Sub relationship is; play time discipline and punishment along with the required aftercare to keep the Sub interested. I think Master operates under much looser rules of consent than we do. You do have an option to not consent to her...by not running her errands etc, by continuing to do so, she takes that as implied consent to continue, and she runs with it. Though, Erani wasn't given that option...so perhaps she doesn't operate on ANY consent rules? Also, how is it theft when you give her the items every time? If you don't want her taking her toys from her toy, don't be her toy, either take dominant dialogue choices or don't go in the shop with items. no one, no matter how submissive, would tolerate a Dom stealing from them Some will, many, in fact, fantasize about exactly that, but I don't consider what Master does as theft. She's doing things to a person she likes to control, and who likes being controlled by her. This is closer to BDSM as we know it than most mods offer and the parallels are easily seen, but its not BDSM in a modern world. Not only does it take place in a fictional world, and rather than jamming modern BDSM into that world, its designed to fit within the culture of that world. (usually oral performed by the Dom on the Sub, or that's how it works in RL anyway.) That's not the "usual" reward in RL, I mean, sometimes, but its not anything resembling close to the "usual" reward. Most of the time, the reward is just the approval of the dominant. And most of the dominants I've been with would NEVER do oral on a sub (although, that's because of the dominants I'm attracted to)
Kendo 2 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 @Jayleia I guess we move in different circles then. From my experience, Doms who are abusive end up being alone and shut out. No one respects them and I've personally seen security physically remove one couple from a club in Dallas because of their reputation. Responsible Doms act, well they act responsibly and treat Subs just as respectfully as they treat one another outside of play. Where I'm from, there's a lot more respect than people realize and I think that is one of the BIG misconceptions about BDSM life. BACK TO THE MOD. I'm standing by my opinion; I would like to see more of a dynamic between the player and Master that doesn't hinge on being locked in a belt or being punished at every turn. It's a huge turn off. @Vel Forgive me and my opinions.
zenetx Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 @Vel Please do not take our arguments as deconstructive criticism, quite the contrary. I think we all know your incredible dedication and immense amount of work that you had. If you allow me to say, your mod is already incredibly epic the way it already is. Although it is inevitable that we imagine things, such as new kinds of Master interactions and such.
Veladarius Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 @Jayleia I guess we move in different circles then. From my experience, Doms who are abusive end up being alone and shut out. No one respects them and I've personally seen security physically remove one couple from a club in Dallas because of their reputation. Responsible Doms act, well they act responsibly and treat Subs just as respectfully as they treat one another outside of play. Where I'm from, there's a lot more respect than people realize and I think that is one of the BIG misconceptions about BDSM life. BACK TO THE MOD. I'm standing by my opinion; I would like to see more of a dynamic between the player and Master that doesn't hinge on being locked in a belt or being punished at every turn. It's a huge turn off. @Vel Forgive me and my opinions. Discussions like this don't bother me, I am always looking for ways to improve and expand CD and various points of view can help. So long as opinions are expressed in a civil manner I don't mind and am always willing to listen.
Guest Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 As long as we're suggesting stuff, um, "Free trial" should be just that, a temporary tryout (not a pun, "trial"). If everyone gets what they want, add a line or two about being a permanent member of the club, and maybe a tattoo or a blouse/shirt, that would not interfere with any of the umpteen other mods. My PC has learned to zone out, so the Elenwen thing is great, fantastic. I'd modify the dialogue with elenwen to be more praiseworthy or submissive (you choose the vocabulary). If there is this hidden quest everyone is referring to (bloodlet thingy??), and a submissive is really one, they should not have to change their stripes, they should just be told what to do. In my know-next-to-nothing-world of this stuff, a submissive person's Valhalla is knowing what to do, what is expected of them, not having to guess or anticipate. Being Dom-like must be taxing, either they neglect way too much or micromanage out of guilt. (OK I'm done philosophizing)
Koffii Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Personally, I'd like to see more quests and content where you and Master together do devious, dastardly things to other people. I don't mind if she slaps you in gear for the duration of the quests, or if the gear makes the quests more difficult, but the interactions shouldn't all be about the PC getting the short end of the stick. I've quite enjoyed the new expansion quests (other than the embassy one. I mean, seriously, I didn't get to try out the machine ). If that's the direction the mod's taking, then I'm really happy with that.
Verstort Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Personally, I'd like to see more quests and content where you and Master together do devious, dastardly things to other people. I don't mind if she slaps you in gear for the duration of the quests, or if the gear makes the quests more difficult, but the interactions shouldn't all be about the PC getting the short end of the stick. I've quite enjoyed the new expansion quests (other than the embassy one. I mean, seriously, I didn't get to try out the machine ). If that's the direction the mod's taking, then I'm really happy with that. Vel has said he wants to add more Dom content in the future, although master doesn't really seem like the kind of person to get her shiny boots dirty with travelling to other places; That's pretty much why she hires you to do. Vel has confirmed that he wants to show more of the named characters from previous quests as part of the "training" events of the player in the future expansion, whether she is training you a slave or training you to take care of slaves. I read those hints as suggestions that we might get to have characters from the second quest as slaves ourselves, or at least participate in their conditioning. Myself, I would love an event regarding the party members in the second quest. She thinks it's funny to slap her wild daughter in restraints? I bet we could have some fun with that one.
Guest Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I like the way master was off walking far away from the shop, in an earlier version. She seemed much more lively. Anyhow, I'm adding a postscript to my suggestion-post above, You know how the player gets into Elenwen's Bedroom in the start of the embassy quest? And Ellenwen starts out saying "Let's see how you please a woman". Then she chooses a very odd way of getting pleased, for a woman. Unless my computer is messed up, she always chooses the "Rub my belly while sitting on me, then do things to my strap-on"-act. She has so many choices, why pick That one? Twice?? There are some new ones they've thought up, using chairs. I'm just saying.
Verstort Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 And she starts out saying "Let's see how you please a woman". Then she chooses a very odd way of getting pleased, for a woman. Unless my computer is messed up, she always chooses the "Rub my belly while sitting on me, then do things to my strap-on"-act. She has so many choices, why pick That one? Twice?? I noticed the same, I got Arrok 69 twice no matter how many times I redid that scene. Thing is though, I remember Vel saying he had no control at that point because he basically drops you out of the scene to let sexlab take over. Not sure there's anything he can do to specify animations to be used, or which side is getting the attention in the animation even.
Kendo 2 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Since I upgraded to Sexlab 1.59c I've been getting weirdness. At one point the only anims I was seeing were the pillory ones from ZAZ. I mean EVERY sex scene was using them. During the Thalmor quest I had male NPCs using female anims. Not a pretty sight. I think that when Sexlab calls the random anims they really ARE random now as far as gender specific goes, but then I keep seeing the same animations over and over again with some scenes.
Guest Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 And she starts out saying "Let's see how you please a woman". Then she chooses a very odd way of getting pleased, for a woman. Unless my computer is messed up, she always chooses the "Rub my belly while sitting on me, then do things to my strap-on"-act. She has so many choices, why pick That one? Twice?? I noticed the same, I got Arrok 69 twice no matter how many times I redid that scene. Thing is though, I remember Vel saying he had no control at that point because he basically drops you out of the scene to let sexlab take over. Not sure there's anything he can do to specify animations to be used, or which side is getting the attention in the animation even. If the function gets called, it might get called using a number. (Pure guessing here). Say it looked like Do sexlab(3) or something. It's hard to believe sexlab would be so biased as to only ever choose one act when told to take over the party.
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