Devious Devices - Integration 4.3a (2019-09-10)

[Princessity]

11 minutes ago, Trainee said:

So what you're saying is. If I don't start a new game. It will just break?

In what ways will it break?

Given that many papyrus scripts have been rewritten, some completely from scratch, properties, items and controller quests have been modified, added and removed, you can expect many orphaned or desynced records in your saves. If your game doesn't start crashing immediately, it will probably die a slow and increasingly unstable death of save corruption, possibly with some of the new mechanics not or only half-working along the way.

[Trainee]

3 minutes ago, Princessity said:

Given that many papyrus scripts have been rewritten, some completely from scratch, properties, items and controller quests have been modified, added and removed, you can expect many orphaned or desynced records in your saves. If your game doesn't start crashing immediately, it will probably die a slow and increasingly unstable death of save corruption, possibly with some of the new mechanics not or only half-working.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Now I know what needs to be done to achieve keep my current adventure alive. 

[Princessity]

2 minutes ago, Trainee said:

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Now I know what needs to be done to achieve keep my current adventure alive. 

...you could try to make it even worse with a "save cleaner" but you will be on your own if you do; we will not be able to provide support or acknowledge your bug reports ._.

[Reesewow]

20 minutes ago, Princessity said:

...you could try to make it even worse with a "save cleaner" but you will be on your own if you do; we will not be able to provide support or acknowledge your bug reports ._.

That's what I've been doing so far, as of yet nothing has exploded.

 

I do hear a horrible ticking sound coming from my computer however....

[RandomOne]

Update on my arms not binding at idle.

 

Active Mod Files:

00  Skyrim.esm
01  Update.esm
02  Dawnguard.esm
03  HearthFires.esm
04  Dragonborn.esm
05  Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.11]
06  SexLab.esm  [Version 1.62]
07  SexLabAroused.esm  [Version 2.8]
08  Devious Devices - Assets.esm  [Version 2.8.3]
09  Devious Devices - Integration.esm
0A  Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
0B  HighResTexturePack01.esp
0C  HighResTexturePack02.esp
0D  HighResTexturePack03.esp
0E  Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp  [Version 1.2.1]
0F  PNENB.esp  [Version 2.00.22+]
10  SkyUI.esp
11  UIExtensions.esp
12  AddItemMenu2.esp
13  FNIS.esp
14  XPMSE.esp
15  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 3.1.7]
16  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
 

deactived all mods in MO except what is shown, I left alt start and additemmenu (UIExtensions is a dependency) to be able to quickly start new games and get an arrmbinder.

I also diabled the folders I had for the output of Bodyslide and SKSE. I deleted the bashed patch folder and FNIS folder I had for their output as well and created new ones. I made sure what is left is the latest version. I started a new game, let everything load, saved, exited, started again, let sexlab auto load, saved again, exited and restarted.  got a black leather armbinder through additem menu  put it on and... same thing all armbinder animations work fine, walking any direction, running any direction, jumping, crouching. All except idle, the arms fall out and behave as if there is no arrmbinder on minus the hands.

 

I have red marks on my face from face palming so much and half my hair is on the floor from pulling it out The only good thing to come from this so far is that I know 200 mods that are NOT the problem hehe. I'm at my wits end and have no clue what to try next. I guess a total wipe is about the only thing left 

 

[Princessity]

28 minutes ago, RandomOne said:

Update on my arms not binding at idle.

 

Active Mod Files:

00  Skyrim.esm
01  Update.esm
02  Dawnguard.esm
03  HearthFires.esm
04  Dragonborn.esm
05  Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.11]
06  SexLab.esm  [Version 1.62]
07  SexLabAroused.esm  [Version 2.8]
08  Devious Devices - Assets.esm  [Version 2.8.3]
09  Devious Devices - Integration.esm
0A  Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
0B  HighResTexturePack01.esp
0C  HighResTexturePack02.esp
0D  HighResTexturePack03.esp
0E  Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp  [Version 1.2.1]
0F  PNENB.esp  [Version 2.00.22+]
10  SkyUI.esp
11  UIExtensions.esp
12  AddItemMenu2.esp
13  FNIS.esp
14  XPMSE.esp
15  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 3.1.7]
16  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
 

deactived all mods in MO except what is shown, I left alt start and additemmenu (UIExtensions is a dependency) to be able to quickly start new games and get an arrmbinder.

I also diabled the folders I had for the output of Bodyslide and SKSE. I deleted the bashed patch folder and FNIS folder I had for their output as well and created new ones. I made sure what is left is the latest version. I started a new game, let everything load, saved, exited, started again, let sexlab auto load, saved again, exited and restarted.  got a black leather armbinder through additem menu  put it on and... same thing all armbinder animations work fine, walking any direction, running any direction, jumping, crouching. All except idle, the arms fall out and behave as if there is no arrmbinder on minus the hands.

 

I have red marks on my face from face palming so much and half my hair is on the floor from pulling it out The only good thing to come from this so far is that I know 200 mods that are NOT the problem hehe. I'm at my wits end and have no clue what to try next. I guess a total wipe is about the only thing left 

 

Do you have a file called abc0_mt_idle.hkx in your Mod Organizer\mods\Devious Devices Integration\meshes\actors\character\animations\DD\ folder?

 

Also, what about other devices? Do yokes, elbowbinders and handcuffs work? Is it just armbinders? Actually is just the one armbinder? Have you tried any others?

 

Also what is "PNENB.esp"?

[jigwigigx]

10 hours ago, Princessity said:

If anyone is having similar problems, please verify that your mod manager installed all the files before reporting issues.

 

I only use MO so I cannot be much help with NMM troubleshooting.

I use latest version of NMM and I used it to upgrade the mods rather than uninstall the old versions then install the new ones. I started a new game and everything

works fine I have not had a single problem. I keep my mods to a minimum and I did uninstall all other devious mods I was using that required the older versions first.

[jigwigigx]

Try reinstalling skse first (latest version).   Make sure everything is latest version, and skyui should be last in load order.

If if still doesn't work then reinstall the devious mods, assets first then integration followed by expansion last. They must be installed

in the right order. Then  you must re-run fnis and bodyslide, rebuild SL ingame.

[Gameplayer]

18 minutes ago, jigwigigx said:

I use latest version of NMM and I used it to upgrade the mods rather than uninstall the old versions then install the new ones. I started a new game and everything

works fine I have not had a single problem. I keep my mods to a minimum and I did uninstall all other devious mods I was using that required the older versions first.

When your using NMM or even MO...

You don't want to select upgrade or replace options as you can never be too sure if its going to go off without a hitch.

I'd suggest uninstalling it completely from NMM.

Then reinstalling it from scratch, if it asks you to overwrite or replace or upgrade the version say "NO" "NO" and "NO"

You want a separate instance of this mod in your manager, don't take any risks playing with the other options.

I know from using NMM with Fo4 when "upgrading" and selecting upgrade with Sim Settlements it will cause issues.

I have no doubt you will run into stuff not being properly installed unless you make sure to install it as a new instance of the mod.

 

It is entirely possible to have different versions of the module sitting in NMM....And would be best to make sure you don't "upgrade" as the upgrade feature isn't working 100% at least from my experience and having seen and read reports from others.

[RandomOne]

1 hour ago, Princessity said:

Do you have a file called abc0_mt_idle.hkx in your Mod Organizer\mods\Devious Devices Integration\meshes\actors\character\animations\DD\ folder?

 

Also, what about other devices? Do yokes, elbowbinders and handcuffs work? Is it just armbinders? Actually is just the one armbinder? Have you tried any others?

 

Also what is "PNENB.esp"?

Yes I checked and abc0_mt_idle.hkx is in that folder, I tried elbowbinders and handcuffs and yokes, they do the same thing. the only thing I found different were the no lock armbinder and shacles didn't work at all, all others work except at idle, not sure about straightjacket because I didn't build a mesh in bodyslide yet so it was invisible since I'm now using default body. the PNENB.esp was from the ENB preset I use. it is the onlything that was dirtying my data folder because enb cant see MO. I took it out and took out the enb files in the main skyrim folder too before I tried out the various other restraints. so my current load order is same as above except the pnenb is gone. What ever is forcing idle to trump all other anims is a mystery still .

[Princessity]

8 minutes ago, RandomOne said:

Yes I checked and abc0_mt_idle.hkx is in that folder, I tried elbowbinders and handcuffs and yokes, they do the same thing. the only thing I found different were the no lock armbinder and shacles didn't work at all, all others work except at idle, not sure about straightjacket because I didn't build a mesh in bodyslide yet so it was invisible since I'm now using default body. the PNENB.esp was from the ENB preset I use. it is the onlything that was dirtying my data folder because enb cant see MO. I took it out and took out the enb files in the main skyrim folder too before I tried out the various other restraints. so my current load order is same as above except the pnenb is gone. What ever is forcing idle to trump all other anims is a mystery still .

Okay I'm really confused now. After loading the game and equipping an armbinder, what does you papyrus log say?

[Mister X]

One request or maybe a compromise: bring back difficulty settings for users, at least partly. Be it linked to another small flag for the items, so the modder still has the opportunity to override user chosen settings or make it enabled by default for generic items and disabled by default for quest items or sth like this.

Just give the basic opportunity to set a difficulty, add a slider with a multiplier (eg from 1.5 to 3 or sth alike) for difficult items and a flag for modders to override those settings.

 

I know it shouldn't be too easy to escape such items, still it is not funny anymore when one starves to death because of a plug with a jammed lock. And to kill each and every DD quest just to be able to eat something can't be a solution either.

[jigwigigx]

1 hour ago, Gameplayer said:

When your using NMM or even MO...

You don't want to select upgrade or replace options as you can never be too sure if its going to go off without a hitch.

I'd suggest uninstalling it completely from NMM.

Then reinstalling it from scratch, if it asks you to overwrite or replace or upgrade the version say "NO" "NO" and "NO"

You want a separate instance of this mod in your manager, don't take any risks playing with the other options.

I know from using NMM with Fo4 when "upgrading" and selecting upgrade with Sim Settlements it will cause issues.

I have no doubt you will run into stuff not being properly installed unless you make sure to install it as a new instance of the mod.

 

It is entirely possible to have different versions of the module sitting in NMM....And would be best to make sure you don't "upgrade" as the upgrade feature isn't working 100% at least from my experience and having seen and read reports from others.

I'll do that next time as I still have an issue in my game with skeevers not moving because the creature pack probably didn't install properly. I haven't bothered to fix it because skeevers are so annoying anyway and I prefer them this way.

[Princessity]

27 minutes ago, Mister X said:

One request or maybe a compromise: bring back difficulty settings for users, at least partly. Be it linked to another small flag for the items, so the modder still has the opportunity to override user chosen settings or make it enabled by default for generic items and disabled by default for quest items or sth like this.

Just give the basic opportunity to set a difficulty, add a slider with a multiplier (eg from 1.5 to 3 or sth alike) for difficult items and a flag for modders to override those settings.

 

I know it shouldn't be too easy to escape such items, still it is not funny anymore when one starves to death because of a plug with a jammed lock. And to kill each and every DD quest just to be able to eat something can't be a solution either.

You just described the exact system that already exists. Generic items can have their difficulty tweaked in MCM. Custom generic devices are also subject to it. Custom non-generic and quest devices can be set by their author to either be governed by difficulty settings or not.

 

So... wish granted? I... guess? Sure! I'll take credit. Totally went back in time and had it added just for you!

[Mister X]

@Princessity Oh? Then I've missed those user settings in the MCM. My bad  I will have another look ... maybe some kind of partial blindness ...

[sshar22]

1 hour ago, Princessity said:

You just described the exact system that already exists. Generic items can have their difficulty tweaked in MCM. Custom generic devices are also subject to it. Custom non-generic and quest devices can be set by their author to either be governed by difficulty settings or not.

 

So... wish granted? I... guess? Sure! I'll take credit. Totally went back in time and had it added just for you!

Really? then how is it possible that selecting "Vanilla [Easiest]" then equipping an armbinder (spawned by DCL) my character died of starvation before being able to wiggle free?

Seems that peeps forget that Skyrim rnd is as bonkers as it can be.

 

[Princessity]

13 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Really? then how is it possible that selecting "Vanilla [Easiest]" then equipping an armbinder (spawned by DCL) my character died of starvation before being able to wiggle free?

Seems that peeps forget that Skyrim rnd is as bonkers as it can be.

 

You can ask an NPC to feed you. We don't generally account for needs mods but we do offer token support that should work for most if not all of them.

[El_Duderino]

15 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Really? then how is it possible that selecting "Vanilla [Easiest]" then equipping an armbinder (spawned by DCL) my character died of starvation before being able to wiggle free?

Seems that peeps forget that Skyrim rnd is as bonkers as it can be.

There's your most likely answer right there. The difficulty might simply be ignored the DCL armbinder, depending on how Kimy set it up (there are many custom armbinders in DCL).

 

Usually you should be able to wiggle out of a (standard DDi / DDx) armbinder after just a few tries on easy difficulty setting. You can even change that during gameplay, go from Hardest to Easiest and it will affect the next escape attempt on all you worn (generic) devices. Of course, there's still a random element in it depending on what number the script rolls to decide the struggle succces yes/no abd so you may get unlucky and roll one unsuccessful attempt after the other, but the easier your difficulty settings are, the less likely this gets.

[Lokikun]

I'm having NPC equipped with armbinders forget their idles after leaving the cell and going back to it.

I equipped a NPC in Whiterun with it (via pickpocket), left via fast travel to a nearby location. Came back to Whiterun via fast travel.

The NPC had the armbinder but he had forgotten the idle. Tried waiting several times near it, but nothing changes.

 

Unequipping it and re-equipping it makes the armbinder work again.

Maybe I hit the DDi cap without knowing? I still don't know. The only thing I got in the logs is the call for Apply_NPC_ABC when I equip it manually.

(Shouldn't it be called on Applyboundanim too? on Zadlibs?)

Papyrus.0.log

[sshar22]

7 minutes ago, Princessity said:

You can ask an NPC to feed you. We don't generally account for needs mods but we do offer token support that should work for most if not all of them.

It was a new game testrun to compare between the previous and the current (btw inside LAL's helgen keep there are no NPC's alive)

 

Anyway, why should DD care about needs mods or any other mods? this is a base framework mod, it needs to be as configurable as possible in its own options!

With DDi3.3 I had 100 percent possibility to escape if I needed (you might be poisoned, bleeding, starving, one needs to get the binding off, without having to nuke everything in the MCM) now I have 75 max. Hit a mean streak and the character is done.

 

Time to dive into the script files and see if I can offset this somehow 

[divinefire]

ok figured out what my problem was updating this mod. It was some of the animations I had in Fnis_PCA2. Worth the loss to get all the devious mods working again. I can still use both mods but had to get rid of the ones causing the crash on new or load game. Might want to update the conflicts as Fnis does not give any errors at all and theres no way to deactivate the parts of the mod that wont work since you can not load a game up to uncheck them in the MCM menu.

 

Having a blast with the update. The cursed loot update is my favorite respecting sexlab stripping now. Awesome change.

[sshar22]

22 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

There's your most likely answer right there. The difficulty might simply be ignored the DCL armbinder, depending on how Kimy set it up (there are many custom armbinders in DCL).

 

Usually you should be able to wiggle out of a (standard DDi / DDx) armbinder after just a few tries on easy difficulty setting. You can even change that during gameplay, go from Hardest to Easiest and it will affect the next escape attempt on all you worn (generic) devices. Of course, there's still a random element in it depending on what number the script rolls to decide the struggle succces yes/no abd so you may get unlucky and roll one unsuccessful attempt after the other, but the easier your difficulty settings are, the less likely this gets.

Yes, you are correct DCL has its own armbinder, but one can see which one spawned it by the load-order prefix number the object has, no?

 

I argue that DD being a base framework onto which one builds (with other mods, hacks and tweaks) its own personal skyrim experience, should have the maximum freedom of configuration.

If a couple of test-runs i did went so easly south, I can only imagine (and shudder) when other events pile onto it.

[Roachboy]

as I also get CTD with new or old games and have PCA2 installed ... what were the problematic animations on your end?

[Princessity]

20 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

It was a new game testrun to compare between the previous and the current (btw inside LAL's helgen keep there are no NPC's alive)

 

Anyway, why should DD care about needs mods or any other mods? this is a base framework mod, it needs to be as configurable as possible in its own options!

With DDi3.3 I had 100 percent possibility to escape if I needed (you might be poisoned, bleeding, starving, one needs to get the binding off, without having to nuke everything in the MCM) now I have 75 max. Hit a mean streak and the character is done.

 

Time to dive into the script files and see if I can offset this somehow 

It's a base framework mod designed to be expanded and built upon by third party mods. It needs to be as configurable as possible by those mods that utilise it and depend on it.

 

We have already heard, considered and responded to feedback on this particular matter and ultimately implemented difficulty settings for generic devices as a compromise. We are at the moment satisfied with it and are eager to see it in action once third party mods update and start taking advantage of the new system based on local device properties.

 

And we are not going to have a knee-jerk reaction to a couple of premature complaints. If, after sufficient time has passed and we have gathered relevant feedback and data, we decide that the system needs further refinement, we will reevaluate and adjust it accordingly.

 

This is all I'm going to say on the subject. Thank you for your feedback.

[divinefire]

27 minutes ago, Roachboy said:

as I also get CTD with new or old games and have PCA2 installed ... what were the problematic animations on your end?

The problem ones are

3_yukl_YY2H_Mystic_Female

4yukl_YY2Hander_maleonly

5Feuertin_Magiska

6cyh0405_OrientalSwordsmanship

 

Everything else should load but some may not work anymore. The idles and jump work fine though. I am thinking about just redoing it all with other animations or just scrapping the mod and just putting in the idle and jump by themselves since they are the same from the pretty animation mods on the nexus.