Unhealthy Craving

[vaultbait]

7 minutes ago, tsnootch said:

my character's preset bodyfat slider is something like .800 or higher, giving her a thicc but not too fat look.  Should I make adjustments somewhere in RMR or make a thinner preset?

 

That probably explains it. As far as I know, LooksMenu doesn't add keyword sliders to the default sliders, it merely renders whichever is higher at any point in time. Probably what you're seeing is RMR not impacting your look until UC's BodyFat exceeds the default BodyFat slider value in your character's preset. There are a number of ways to approach it, but basically I think you want RMR's minimum value for the slider to be equivalent to the default value of that slider in your preset. Giving your preset a low value for the BodyFat slider would give you a bit more range to play with. The way UC is designed, the middle of "healthy" is magnitude 0.25 and you're considered "overweight" starting at magnitude 0.5 (with 0.0 and 1.0 being the minimum and maximum values for the vector). Ideally you would pick your minimum and maximum points for the slider so that 25% of the way from your minimum to your maximum looks healthy and 50% of the way looks overweight (that gives you a bit of room at the lower end to get emaciated looking, and plenty of runway in the top half to reach obscenely obese).

[AlyssaAwoo]

You know, I'm not into weight gain but with a mod that would make the meat of more horribly mutated creatures fairly radioactive, this could actually be pretty neat for survival mode. I usually skip the food isles in super duper mart and other stores due to the fact there's so much non-radioactive edible meat around to cook and eat. Take some of that away with some radiation spice and you're forced to hunt cattle and proper wildlife , farm crops and most importantly loot stores around the Commonwealth while balancing your diet with this mod  ..or be lazy and stuff yourself full of snack cakes with some chub to show for it. 
 

Am I overthinking this ? 

[vaultbait]

12 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

You know, I'm not into weight gain but with a mod that would make the meat of more horribly mutated creatures fairly radioactive, this could actually be pretty neat for survival mode. I usually skip the food isles in super duper mart and other stores due to the fact there's so much non-radioactive edible meat around to cook and eat. Take some of that away with some radiation spice and you're forced to hunt cattle and proper wildlife , farm crops and most importantly loot stores around the Commonwealth while balancing your diet with this mod  ..or be lazy and stuff yourself full of snack cakes with some chub to show for it. 
 

Am I overthinking this ? 

 

Not at all, I saw an interesting mod on Nexus this week that aims to address the meat spigot that is FO4 by making it so that only a few logical beasties are harvestable for meat ingredients (but vastly expanded the list of things you could cook with them). I can't find it now just skimming, but maybe someone else recalls the name.

[AlyssaAwoo]

58 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

Not at all, I saw an interesting mod on Nexus this week that aims to address the meat spigot that is FO4 by making it so that only a few logical beasties are harvestable for meat ingredients (but vastly expanded the list of things you could cook with them). I can't find it now just skimming, but maybe someone else recalls the name.

 

Immersive Hunting Overhaul perhaps ? That's what I found when looking for a mod aiming to do this atleast.

 

Also had nothing better to do so I made a mod that makes all base game steaks and eggs that come from more horribly mutated creatures radioactive. Also tweaked some rads for various raw meat to be more punishing. Now safe to eat is: Brahmin, Radstag, Dog and Yao Guai and other minor things like squirrel stuff. The rest will give you radiation, but cooking them takes off 2 radiation so there's a benefit to eating cooked aside from the buffs. Also made it an .esl file. Maybe someone will enjoy this together with this mod aswell. 

 

Dangerously Delicious Mutants.7z

Edited February 13, 2023 by AkiKay

[vaultbait]

43 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

Immersive Hunting Overhaul perhaps ? That's what I found when looking for a mod aiming to do this atleast.

 

Oh, yes that was it! Anyway, it addresses the meat excess through scarcity, though your radiation approach seems interesting as well.

 

The other common incentive (what I typically use) is survival type playthroughs that make raw and cooked foods spoil, but most prepackaged "junk food" has remained edible (for some definition thereof) since before the war.

[tsnootch]

2 hours ago, AkiKay said:

You know, I'm not into weight gain but with a mod that would make the meat of more horribly mutated creatures fairly radioactive, this could actually be pretty neat for survival mode. I usually skip the food isles in super duper mart and other stores due to the fact there's so much non-radioactive edible meat around to cook and eat. Take some of that away with some radiation spice and you're forced to hunt cattle and proper wildlife , farm crops and most importantly loot stores around the Commonwealth while balancing your diet with this mod  ..or be lazy and stuff yourself full of snack cakes with some chub to show for it. 
 

Am I overthinking this ? 

Horizon mod does this, and much more.  All raw meat has rads and gives you parasites, which you can only heal with a specific healing item, and only gives a little bit of sustenance.  Hunting is a skill in Horizon and the better you get at it the more raw meat animals will drop, which you can use in recipes to make safe to eat food.  Eating raw meat in Horizon is a huge gamble and usually only done in an emergency.

[LenAnderson]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:42 AM, tsnootch said:

In regards to my character not seemingly updating the body fat morph until I get a high body fat %, I adjusted down the "Upper Threshold" slider from 100 to 50 and I guess RMR just took a while to update it, but once it did, now my character will gain weight on lower body fat%, which is good, but it still seems drastic.  I just have to keep tweaking it to try and get it to be more gradual.  I have most recent LooksMenu, and yes, my character's preset bodyfat slider is something like .800 or higher, giving her a thicc but not too fat look.  Should I make adjustments somewhere in RMR or make a thinner preset?

 

I misunderstood keyword morphs in LooksMenu. While I was aware of the problems with the version suggested in the fucking manual and of the max-value selection in new versions, I was still somehow convinced that keyword morphs would be applied on top of the default morph from LooksMenu. I suppose there was little enough overlap in my body preset and RMR settings that I never noticed this in the hours of testing and using RMR...

 

Unfortunately there isn't really any setting you can use in RMR to work around this at the moment. Adjusting the threshold just compresses the morph progression; i.e., morphs change quicker, but either start later (if you increase lower threshold) or reach the full morph sooner (if you decrease upper threshold).

 

However, I am currently working on an update to RMR that will help with this by offering three separate ways to calculate the final morph value that RMR will send to LooksMenu:

• just the RMR value (this is what RMR is doing now) --> no effect if the value set in LooksMenu or another mod's keyword morph is higher than this
• RMR + the value set in LooksMenu --> no effect if another mod's keyword morph is higher than the sum of the value set in LooksMenu and RMR's value
• RMR + highest morph --> this adds RMR's value on top of whatever you would see without RMR and takes into account keyword morphs from other mods as well

With the third option (and second option, depending on your mods) you should see weight gains represented on your character immediately, even if they start out with a high bodyfat value.

 

One issue that remains is that you will never see negative morphs on any slider that already has a value set through LooksMenu or other mods. Positive slider values will always suppress any negative values...

Although, you could probably work around this by not setting that slider in LooksMenu (or setting it to the value you want to have when fully morphed with RMR) and using an inverted RMR slider instead.

 

I still think that it would be best if LooksMenu used the sum of its base morph and all keyword morphs instead of just picking the maximum (or offer a way to set a keyworded morph as "try to reach this value" vs "add this value"). But I know that this topic has seen a lot of debate with enough "the only way is X" opinions and it is unlikely to change.

[vaultbait]

21 minutes ago, LenAnderson said:

I suppose there was little enough overlap in my body preset and RMR settings that I never noticed this in the hours of testing and using RMR...

 

Same here, while I have a basic understanding of how BG morphs shadow each other, I always use a zero-sliders preset for my character and leave it up to RMR and other mods which dynamically morph the player (Family Planning, Sex Attributes, et cetera) and also mainly try to avoid mods fighting over adjusting the same sliders too. Avoiding any overlap keeps problems to a minimum, so in theory using a LM preset which keeps the sliders you're configuring in RMR at 0 is the simplest workaround.

[tsnootch]

6 hours ago, LenAnderson said:

Unfortunately there isn't really any setting you can use in RMR to work around this at the moment. Adjusting the threshold just compresses the morph progression; i.e., morphs change quicker, but either start later (if you increase lower threshold) or reach the full morph sooner (if you decrease upper threshold).

 

However, I am currently working on an update to RMR that will help with this by offering three separate ways to calculate the final morph value that RMR will send to LooksMenu:

• just the RMR value (this is what RMR is doing now) --> no effect if the value set in LooksMenu or another mod's keyword morph is higher than this
• RMR + the value set in LooksMenu --> no effect if another mod's keyword morph is higher than the sum of the value set in LooksMenu and RMR's value
• RMR + highest morph --> this adds RMR's value on top of whatever you would see without RMR and takes into account keyword morphs from other mods as well

Thank you for the insight, I love your mod and have been trying out other triggers with it.  RMR and UC are really the two mods that filled the missing gap in my setup.  All those things that a survival playthrough makes me craft now have some kind of influence on my character's body.  I added tons of healing and rad reduction consumables to UC's .txt files to make overusing those items in game have some kind of balanced penalty.

 

6 hours ago, LenAnderson said:

One issue that remains is that you will never see negative morphs on any slider that already has a value set through LooksMenu or other mods. Positive slider values will always suppress any negative values...

Although, you could probably work around this by not setting that slider in LooksMenu (or setting it to the value you want to have when fully morphed with RMR) and using an inverted RMR slider instead.

 

I still think that it would be best if LooksMenu used the sum of its base morph and all keyword morphs instead of just picking the maximum (or offer a way to set a keyworded morph as "try to reach this value" vs "add this value"). But I know that this topic has seen a lot of debate with enough "the only way is X" opinions and it is unlikely to change.

So, you're saying that if I reduce the in game LooksMenu "BodyFat" slider to 0 (down from .800 for me) and instead set that slider out of game to .800 in BodySlide that will help my issue? 

 

I'm so addicted to my boyslide/looksmenu preset that I just can't give it up as my "base/thin" body for UC.

 

Thanks again to both of you for your help!

[LenAnderson]

10 minutes ago, tsnootch said:

Thank you for the insight, I love your mod and have been trying out other triggers with it.  RMR and UC are really the two mods that filled the missing gap in my setup.  All those things that a survival playthrough makes me craft now have some kind of influence on my character's body.  I added tons of healing and rad reduction consumables to UC's .txt files to make overusing those items in game have some kind of balanced penalty.

 

So, you're saying that if I reduce the in game LooksMenu "BodyFat" slider to 0 (down from .800 for me) and instead set that slider out of game to .800 in BodySlide that will help my issue? 

 

I'm so addicted to my boyslide/looksmenu preset that I just can't give it up as my "base/thin" body for UC.

 

Thanks again to both of you for your help!

Not unless you want every NPC to also start out with 80% BodyFat. But what might work with the current version of RMR is the following:

Set the BodyFat slider in LooksMenu to 0.

Add an RMR slider set for BodyFat.

Set the trigger to one of the SPECIAL triggers. Make sure to pick a SPECIAL stat that is unlikely to ever go below 1 (or one that never reaches 10 and enable "invert trigger").

Set target size increase to 80%.

Set the lower threshold to 0%, upper threshold to 1%.

 

Since the SPECIAL stat is always at least 1 (=10% trigger value) and the upper threshold is at 1%, the slider set's morph is always maxed out and sets BodyFat to 80%.

RMR internally adds up all its own morphs before applying them. So if the slider set you use with UC sets BodyFat to 1% you'll get 81% total.

 

I could be talking nonsense (I'm tired...). You would have to test this for yourself.

[AlyssaAwoo]

While playing just now I had the idea that maybe having to eat more to be satisfied the heavier you are could be something to look into regarding survival mode. That way you'd have to avoid fully satiating yourself and instead suffer from some hunger debuffs for a while to actually start losing weight. And of course not only eat less, but also eat healthy in that time aswell. When you're round and ravenous, fully satiating your new-found hunger with tons of junkfood isn't gonna help the case afterall. 

[vaultbait]

6 hours ago, AkiKay said:

While playing just now I had the idea that maybe having to eat more to be satisfied the heavier you are could be something to look into regarding survival mode. That way you'd have to avoid fully satiating yourself and instead suffer from some hunger debuffs for a while to actually start losing weight. And of course not only eat less, but also eat healthy in that time aswell. When you're round and ravenous, fully satiating your new-found hunger with tons of junkfood isn't gonna help the case afterall. 

 

Yes, the metabolism mechanic already takes the current body fat into account, so you have to eat more to maintain a higher body fat. If you turn on the debug notifications and eat something, then increase your body fat (cqf uc_main modbodyfat 0.5) and then eat the same thing again, you should see the second portion increases body fat by a smaller amount. I would try to integrate more with the HC mode and Advanced Needs survival implementations if I could work out how to arbitrarily increment/decrement hunger or speed/slow the rate at which it progresses, but so far that has proven nontrivial at best, perhaps impossible without some heavy patching of things that would increase fragility and reduce compatibility of UC.

[LenAnderson]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:49 PM, tsnootch said:

Thank you for the insight, I love your mod and have been trying out other triggers with it.  RMR and UC are really the two mods that filled the missing gap in my setup.  All those things that a survival playthrough makes me craft now have some kind of influence on my character's body.  I added tons of healing and rad reduction consumables to UC's .txt files to make overusing those items in game have some kind of balanced penalty.

 

So, you're saying that if I reduce the in game LooksMenu "BodyFat" slider to 0 (down from .800 for me) and instead set that slider out of game to .800 in BodySlide that will help my issue? 

 

I'm so addicted to my boyslide/looksmenu preset that I just can't give it up as my "base/thin" body for UC.

 

Thanks again to both of you for your help!

 

RMR v2.5 is out. Setting morph calculation to RMR+LM or RMR+Highest (this is the new default) your issue should be solved.

[vaultbait]

10 hours ago, LenAnderson said:

RMR v2.5 is out. Setting morph calculation to RMR+LM or RMR+Highest (this is the new default) your issue should be solved.

 

Thanks! That adds some flexibility while hopefully reducing user confusion at the same time (by acting more like what a user would intuitively expect).

[rubber_duck]

[Minor Bug Report and a Question]

 

I noticed a minor bug. Nothing serious and, to be honest, I think it's not related to UC (though I might be wrong). It's about fat buffs/debuffs. Let me explain.

 

If my character gets Fit while playing - she'd get +1 STR. However, if I the next time I load the save (either by quitting the game or loading from the pause menu), I'd lose that +1 STR. Every other SPECIAL stat buff/debuff works properly except strength. It's not a big deal, but it can get annoying if I save with full inventory - the next time I load that save I'd be greeted with 'You are overencumbered'.

 

As for the question - it's about the maths (again). Specifically, items that use ObjectTypeFood keyword. If I'm not mistaken, other mod-added consumables that have the mentioned keyword would adjust fat by calculating 0.05% of caps value x Carry Weight, right? By Carry Weight are you referring to Player's carry weight (as in - the higher the carry weight, the more fat you get)?

 

If that's the case, is there a way to customize it a bit further? Certain consumables adjust the fat properly (realistically), but some do not (gaining less weight than it should be). Again, not a big deal; I was just curious.

 

Keep up the great work and take care!

[vaultbait]

23 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

[Minor Bug Report and a Question]

 

I noticed a minor bug. Nothing serious and, to be honest, I think it's not related to UC (though I might be wrong). It's about fat buffs/debuffs. Let me explain.

 

If my character gets Fit while playing - she'd get +1 STR. However, if I the next time I load the save (either by quitting the game or loading from the pause menu), I'd lose that +1 STR. Every other SPECIAL stat buff/debuff works properly except strength. It's not a big deal, but it can get annoying if I save with full inventory - the next time I load that save I'd be greeted with 'You are overencumbered'.

 

Definitely odd. I've not noticed that happening, but I'll see if I can reproduce it.

 

23 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

As for the question - it's about the maths (again). Specifically, items that use ObjectTypeFood keyword. If I'm not mistaken, other mod-added consumables that have the mentioned keyword would adjust fat by calculating 0.05% of caps value x Carry Weight, right? By Carry Weight are you referring to Player's carry weight (as in - the higher the carry weight, the more fat you get)?

 

Sorry, I'll have to try to find another way to express that concisely, but I mean the amount the item contributes to the total weight of things carried by the player (the game refers to the item property as simply "weight" but the term tends to be confusing as it's somewhat overloaded, obviously). So it's 0.05% times the "caps" (FO4CK calls it "gold") value of the item multiplied by the item's "weight" (this is usually 1.0 or 0.5 but sometimes smaller).

[rubber_duck]

38 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

Definitely odd. I've not noticed that happening, but I'll see if I can reproduce it.

 

That bug's been present in my game ever since I first installed UC. I only reported it now as I wanted to ask about something else and wanted to use the opportunity. Oh, and the only issue is with strength, other SPECIALs (if modified by UC) are working properly, as far as I can tell.

 

40 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

Sorry, I'll have to try to find another way to express that concisely, but I mean the amount the item contributes to the total weight of things carried by the player (the game refers to the item property as simply "weight" but the term tends to be confusing as it's somewhat overloaded, obviously). So it's 0.05% times the "caps" (FO4CK calls it "gold") value of the item multiplied by the item's "weight" (this is usually 1.0 or 0.5 but sometimes smaller).

 

So this means if I have a consumable item that's valued at 8 caps and weighs 0.1 - upon consuming, I'd gain 0.0004 fat. I messed something up, right? Is the correct formula: 0.05% x value x weight ?

[vaultbait]

6 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

So this means if I have a consumable item that's valued at 8 caps and weighs 0.1 - upon consuming, I'd gain 0.0004 fat. I messed something up, right? Is the correct formula: 0.05% x value x weight ?

 

That's right, the code which implements it basically looks like this:

 

Spoiler

    If akBaseObject.HasKeywordInFormList(FoodKeywords)
        Modifier = 0.0005
        Float ItemWeight = akBaseObject.GetWeight()
        If ItemWeight > 0.0
            Modifier *= ItemWeight
        EndIf
        Float ItemValue = akBaseObject.GetGoldValue()
        If ItemValue > 0.0
            Modifier *= ItemValue
        EndIf
    EndIf
    If Modifier
        ModBodyFatAndNotify(Modifier, "Consuming " + akBaseObject.GetName())
    EndIf

 

 

[rubber_duck]

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

 

That's right, the code which implements it basically looks like this:

 

  Hide contents

    If akBaseObject.HasKeywordInFormList(FoodKeywords)
        Modifier = 0.0005
        Float ItemWeight = akBaseObject.GetWeight()
        If ItemWeight > 0.0
            Modifier *= ItemWeight
        EndIf
        Float ItemValue = akBaseObject.GetGoldValue()
        If ItemValue > 0.0
            Modifier *= ItemValue
        EndIf
    EndIf
    If Modifier
        ModBodyFatAndNotify(Modifier, "Consuming " + akBaseObject.GetName())
    EndIf

 

 

 

Got it, thanks!

 

By the way, do you plan to add Modifier to MCM so it can be configured? This works properly, make no mistake, but certain mod-added items are adding way less fat than they should. Specifically, I'm thinking about Mutant Menagerie - that mod adds a bunch of cooking recipes and, while UC works with it just fine, I'm struggling not to notice that Noodles are adding more fat than literally a wild pig (Wild Boar) - source of Big Game meat.

 

Either way, thanks a lot for clarifying it out! Also, sorry for bothering again as I totally forgot to look at the code. Keep up the great work!

[vaultbait]

9 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

do you plan to add Modifier to MCM so it can be configured? This works properly, make no mistake, but certain mod-added items are adding way less fat than they should. Specifically, I'm thinking about Mutant Menagerie - that mod adds a bunch of cooking recipes and, while UC works with it just fine, I'm struggling not to notice that Noodles are adding more fat than literally a wild pig (Wild Boar) - source of Big Game meat.

 

Yes, for that routine in particular the plan is to make the 0.0005 multiplier configurable (though more likely by adding a configurable constant multiplier or something), and also add toggles to determine whether value and weight influence it. There's only so much that can be done to make different items have different caloric load without either assuming some consistency in weight and value of different foods or getting really into the weeds to make each one independently configurable (and if you really want that, you can just make a patch plugin which adjusts the value and weight of all the items you care about to make sense).

 

At least with the toggles and multiplier configurable, you'll be able to turn off both value and weight so that all normal food just grants a flat amount, like 1% or something.

[rubber_duck]

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Yes, for that routine in particular the plan is to make the 0.0005 multiplier configurable (though more likely by adding a configurable constant multiplier or something), and also add toggles to determine whether value and weight influence it. There's only so much that can be done to make different items have different caloric load without either assuming some consistency in weight and value of different foods or getting really into the weeds to make each one independently configurable (and if you really want that, you can just make a patch plugin which adjusts the value and weight of all the items you care about to make sense).

 

At least with the toggles and multiplier configurable, you'll be able to turn off both value and weight so that all normal food just grants a flat amount, like 1% or something.

 

I'll definitely be on the lookout for that update!

 

I won't bother with creating a patch as having normal food add flat % fat amount would seem boring; but the current multiplier is way too low, at least in my opinion. I ain't gonna recommend you how to advance the development, as you've already proven that you know what you're doing. Keep it up!

 

Take care!

Edited February 18, 2023 by rubber_duck

[tsnootch]

20 hours ago, LenAnderson said:

 

RMR v2.5 is out. Setting morph calculation to RMR+LM or RMR+Highest (this is the new default) your issue should be solved.

Awesome.  Safe for me to just overwrite 2.4 files or should I stop the mod in MCM and stop UC as well, update, and then reactivate?

[vaultbait]

8 hours ago, tsnootch said:

Awesome.  Safe for me to just overwrite 2.4 files or should I stop the mod in MCM and stop UC as well, update, and then reactivate?

 

I simply used my mod manager to remove the old version and install the new version, then fired up the game. RMR and UC upgrade themselves automatically if they see you're running a different version than previously used in that save, so you shouldn't need any special steps unless the notes along with a release say to do extra things (but that should be a rare occurrence).

[tsnootch]

On 2/18/2023 at 8:26 AM, vaultbait said:

 

I simply used my mod manager to remove the old version and install the new version, then fired up the game. RMR and UC upgrade themselves automatically if they see you're running a different version than previously used in that save, so you shouldn't need any special steps unless the notes along with a release say to do extra things (but that should be a rare occurrence).

Cool, thanks for the reply.

[deathmorph]

I just stumbled across your mod through the RMR update - I'm happy about this variant. I configured RMR as you described and installed and selected your trigger. I'm curious.

If I understand correctly then I need to drop and then equip SmartScale to get the correct stats?

Fading Signal's MREs are probably not among the supported foods, are they?