Unhealthy Craving

[Church the Cat]

I recently added this mod to my load order, but I'm only seeing weight changes with exercise and sleep. Diet seems to have no effect on her size, I tested it by giving her no food for five days, just water and sleep. She went from emaciated to morbidly obese. Did I miss an important MCM setting?

[vaultbait]

6 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

I want to make it easy to get fat, but very hard to lose it. So far, I've set master multiplier to 0.1 (default is 1.0), FM to 0 (I believe default was 0.02)

 

Be aware that the Progression Factor doesn't change the burn to gain ratio at all, it simply slows down everything (gaining and burning fat) in order to make the progression of changes to your body more gradual. I'm planning to change the default to 0.1 in the 1.7.0 release because 1.0 is actually pretty fast, which worked well while I was playtesting, but the overall experience from the mod is a lot better when changes from it are 10x slower to accumulate.

 

6 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

and increased fat gain effects/perks from 0.75 to 1.0.

 

Seems like you misunderstood the fat gain/loss multipliers. Those are multipliers for the periodic amount of fat burned from metabolism, so the default 0.75 for fat gain effects means that you burn 0.75 times the normal amount (i.e. 25% less than normal). Increasing that to 1.0 means that fat gain effects no longer cause you to burn less fat (see the description for that setting in MCM). You would want to lower that setting instead if to goal is to burn less fat.

 

6 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

Oh, and I wanted to ask something else (regarding the scales)... Any chance you could make them buildable settlement object? They work pretty well (that animation is very nice touch, kudos!), but I'm not really sure if dragging a scale on my journeys is worth it (Survival player here; ammo, meds, etc. have weight so I really need all the inventory space I can get).

 

I drop them in my settlements and they're still there weeks later when I come back. The script that places them when you drop the armor item sets the persistent flag on the furniture.

 

If I made a settlement workshop buildable scale furniture, it would have to be a separate object without the pickup override option... I thought about it but it's a bit more work, and potentially confusing when scales created by building in the chemistry workbench and then dropping from inventory acting differently from those built from the settlement workshop menu could be potentially confusing too.

 

For those reasons, I decided not to, but if it turns out that they do disappear from settlements you drop them in under some circumstances, I may revisit that original decision.

[vaultbait]

6 hours ago, Krazyone said:

Should add the scales to Doctor Areas, such as Diamond City, Bunker Hill, and Covenant. In-Game Hosipitals, such as Medford Memorial Hospital, Med-Tech Research, etc. Unless they are already there...

 

I also thought about that early on and decided against it, because making edits to vanilla locations is the #1 easiest way to conflict with tons of other mods, so I'd really rather not.

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, Church the Cat said:

I recently added this mod to my load order, but I'm only seeing weight changes with exercise and sleep. Diet seems to have no effect on her size, I tested it by giving her no food for five days, just water and sleep. She went from emaciated to morbidly obese. Did I miss an important MCM setting?

 

More likely you missed a dependency, that sounds like what happens if you don't have SUP F4SE installed (it's also a dependency of RMR). Is it installed, and does the F4SE log say the plugin is being loaded successfully?

[rubber_duck]

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

Seems like you misunderstood the fat gain/loss multipliers. Those are multipliers for the periodic amount of fat burned from metabolism, so the default 0.75 for fat gain effects means that you burn 0.75 times the normal amount (i.e. 25% less than normal). Increasing that to 1.0 means that fat gain effects no longer cause you to burn less fat (see the description for that setting in MCM). You would want to lower that setting instead if to goal is to burn less fat.

 

Yep, happy to confirm that I misread the info. This surely explains weird fat burn values I got at the time of testing (too low; like 0.0125 or something). I'll revert these settings to default and see if that does the trick.

 

Regarding the same topic... Why are those 2 MCM sliders (both fat gain and loss perks/effects) limited? As in, they aren't allowed to go lower than certain value? General question, I'm just curious.

 

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

I drop them in my settlements and they're still there weeks later when I come back. The script that places them when you drop the armor item sets the persistent flag on the furniture.

 

If I made a settlement workshop buildable scale furniture, it would have to be a separate object without the pickup override option... I thought about it but it's a bit more work, and potentially confusing when scales created by building in the chemistry workbench and then dropping from inventory acting differently from those built from the settlement workshop menu could be potentially confusing too.

 

For those reasons, I decided not to, but if it turns out that they do disappear from settlements you drop them in under some circumstances, I may revisit that original decision.

 

That's the main reason why I asked - I know I had certain mods with similar feature (drop item from inventory to interact with it) a few years ago and after certain amount of game time, those placed objects would disappear. I think it has something to do with cell reset stuff, but I never looked into it properly. After leaving the scale in my player home I thought about it disappearing and immediately returned to pick it back up and place it in a container, just to be sure.

 

Anyways, whatever you do - I'm sure it'll be great! In the meantime, and like I already mentioned, I decided to put one in bathroom container and use it every few in-game days. It just makes most sense, in my opinion.

 

[LatencyRemix]

Cool mod to add to the mod list.  I have a small suggestion / request if at all possible for consideration.  

Its not for everyone but for them that use it could this mod also be able to track Fallout Vore mod as foods for weight gains?  

[vaultbait]

24 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

Regarding the same topic... Why are those 2 MCM sliders (both fat gain and loss perks/effects) limited? As in, they aren't allowed to go lower than certain value? General question, I'm just curious.

 

The math would get weird if the fat gain effects/perks multiplier was set to 0 (that would effectively disable metabolic fat burn entirely) or higher than 1 (since gain effects would turn into loss effects), so I limited the fat gain effects range at 0.05 to 1.00, the minimum value there would mean you burn fat 20x slower than normal when one gain effect or perk is active, but remember they're also cumulative so if you had two active that would become 400x slower. This is why I caution to make only slight adjustments to one thing at a time and test.

 

Similarly for the fat loss effects/perks multiplier, anything lower than 1 would cause them to become fat gain effects, so I limited it at 1.00 to 2.00 mainly for ease of configuration (2.00 means you burn fat twice as fast as normal when a fat loss perk or effect is active, and again they're cumulative so with two that would be quadruple fat burn speed, etc).

 

If your goal is to just make it harder to lose weight in general, the base metabolic rate and fat maintenance factor are what drives normal fat burn. As the descriptions hopefully reflect, the base metabolic rate is a knob to say generally how quickly or slowly fat should be burned, while the fat maintenance factor knob decides how much extra you burn the fatter you get. If you look up formulas for calculating "basal metabolic rate" (BMR), you'll see that in addition to height and age (which I sort of handwave away because those aren't really relevant in FO4) it's essentially a constant (this is the base metabolic rate slider) and your body weight multiplied by another constant (this is the fat maintenance factor slider). Reducing either or both of those a bit will cause you to burn less fat on an ongoing basis, and also will make fat loss effects/perks proportionally less effective because they're multipliers for your overall calculated burn rate.

 

24 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

That's the main reason why I asked - I know I had certain mods with similar feature (drop item from inventory to interact with it) a few years ago and after certain amount of game time, those placed objects would disappear. I think it has something to do with cell reset stuff, but I never looked into it properly. After leaving the scale in my player home I thought about it disappearing and immediately returned to pick it back up and place it in a container, just to be sure.

 

I don't think settlements reset? But anyway, if you do manage to get a dropped smart scale furniture to disappear after some time please let me know. It was something I was worried about when I initially came up with the design, but in testing it seemed not to be a problem in my game after all.

[vaultbait]

2 minutes ago, LatencyRemix said:

Cool mod to add to the mod list.  I have a small suggestion / request if at all possible for consideration.  

Its not for everyone but for them that use it could this mod also be able to track Fallout Vore mod as foods for weight gains?  

 

It might already be possible if Vore uses specific consumable items, or applies a magic effect or perk. There are text files included with UC so you can just include anything you like along those lines from other mods pretty easily. Someone who knows the internals of the Vore mod's implementation would need to say whether that's the case though, I don't use it and am not blessed with the available time to dig into it.

 

If Vore doesn't simply use consumables, perks or magic effects that can be checked for, then I'd need more technically specific suggestions on what an integration would need to do.

[Church the Cat]

On 3/25/2023 at 4:53 PM, vaultbait said:

 

More likely you missed a dependency, that sounds like what happens if you don't have SUP F4SE installed (it's also a dependency of RMR). Is it installed, and does the F4SE log say the plugin is being loaded successfully?

Thanks, I missed that one. I just installed it, here's hoping it's cool being installed during a playthrough, since it has no plugin. Should be good now, I'll chime back in if it isn't. Thanks, again.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Church the Cat

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, Church the Cat said:

Thanks, I missed that one. I just installed it, here's hoping it's cool being installed during a playthrough, since it has no plugin. Should be good now, I'll chime back in if it isn't Thanks, again.

 

Cool, I bolded and underlined the list of requirements in the mod description and linked to their download locations (even though they're also requirements for RMR) the last time someone reported an issue that turned out to be due to missing that, but it's clearly nor enough. For 1.7.0 I'll try to implement pop-up warnings if any of the requirements aren't found.

[Krazyone]

11 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

I also thought about that early on and decided against it, because making edits to vanilla locations is the #1 easiest way to conflict with tons of other mods, so I'd really rather not.

 

Fair enough... it was just an idea.  

[vaultbait]

4 hours ago, Krazyone said:

Fair enough... it was just an idea.  

 

It was a good idea, I had it too pretty much as soon as I decided to add the smart scale. I had even gone so far as to put together a list of places I'd add some and scouted them in the CK, but ultimately decided against it after carefully weighing the pros and cons. The best locations to add them are also often locations which get heavily modified by other mods, and I didn't want to end up maintaining a growing pile of compatibility patches for something that was supposed to be a fairly inconsequential mini-feature of this mod.

[Krazyone]

48 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

It was a good idea, I had it too pretty much as soon as I decided to add the smart scale. I had even gone so far as to put together a list of places I'd add some and scouted them in the CK, but ultimately decided against it after carefully weighing the pros and cons. The best locations to add them are also often locations which get heavily modified by other mods, and I didn't want to end up maintaining a growing pile of compatibility patches for something that was supposed to be a fairly inconsequential mini-feature of this mod.

 

Yeah... I make Treasure Hunt mods, hundreds of locations they are added to. Almost finished another one, 91 Locations with hand placed items in this one...

[sen4mi]

17 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

I also thought about that early on and decided against it, because making edits to vanilla locations is the #1 easiest way to conflict with tons of other mods, so I'd really rather not.

I think you should be able to add objects to locations dynamically, rather than using cell edits.

 

For example, you could do an OnLocationChange which spawns an object the first time you enter that location. Perhaps dropping it on the floor somewhere, with physics enabled, or perhaps inside some container.

[vaultbait]

51 minutes ago, sen4mi said:

I think you should be able to add objects to locations dynamically, rather than using cell edits.

 

For example, you could do an OnLocationChange which spawns an object the first time you enter that location. Perhaps dropping it on the floor somewhere, with physics enabled, or perhaps inside some container.

 

The problem is less cell edits and more mods that rearrange the contents of cells or even change their floorplans. Whatever locations I pick to place things can end up in some inaccessible space, clipping through walls/furniture, and so on. I personally play with a number of such mods, so would really just rather not pre-place anything. Inserting into containers could be a possibility, or injecting into vendor leveled lists, but like I said the scale isn't really meant to be a centerpiece of the mod, it's something I added to give users a slightly more immersive solution than an MCM button or hotkey for checking their fat, craving, desperation, etc and in more granular ways than the effect/perk labels shown in the Pip-Boy.

Edited March 26, 2023 by vaultbait

[MysticDaedra]

I'm having an issue where UC is giving me increased fat loss for wearing heels, despite my character not wearing heels. Is there a way I can fix this? I don't believe the gear my PC is wearing has any high heel keywords or anything.

 

EDIT: FO4HHS had erroneously given my outfit an HHS file. Using the "delete file" function in the FO4HHS MCM solved this. Dunno why it did that... but that's what it did.

Edited March 27, 2023 by MysticDaedra

[vaultbait]

7 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

I'm having an issue where UC is giving me increased fat loss for wearing heels, despite my character not wearing heels. Is there a way I can fix this? I don't believe the gear my PC is wearing has any high heel keywords or anything.

 

EDIT: FO4HHS had erroneously given my outfit an HHS file. Using the "delete file" function in the FO4HHS MCM solved this. Dunno why it did that... but that's what it did.

 

Interesting! And thanks for the update.

 

Which outfit was it? I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

[MysticDaedra]

7 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Interesting! And thanks for the update.

 

Which outfit was it? I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

It was a Synth Uniform, but from a replacer mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/38562

 

That being said, I believe this to be solidly an FO4HHS issue primarily. Just something for people to watch out for. Since last night I have experienced this with several outfits that FO4HHS decided needed an offset for whatever reason, despite being flat-soled.

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

It was a Synth Uniform, but from a replacer mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/38562

 

That being said, I believe this to be solidly an FO4HHS issue primarily. Just something for people to watch out for. Since last night I have experienced this with several outfits that FO4HHS decided needed an offset for whatever reason, despite being flat-soled.

 

I see. I use that replacer, but the "flatfeet" version and only for Piper's outfit because it's not covered by the CCO collections, so hadn't observed the issue. The heeled version of the mod does appear to supply a SynthUniformF.txt file containing "Height=5.0" which is basically how HHS knows whether or not to set a heel height and by how much. UC is checking the HHS.HasHeight_HHS global function so if HHS has any height at all configured for an outfit UC will include the fat loss multiplier for it.

 

Were you not seeing any heel elevation when wearing that outfit? Or did you maybe install that replacer but then build the synth uniform from another replacer without heels instead (so the HHS file was present even though you weren't using the corresponding mesh)?

Edited March 27, 2023 by vaultbait

[MysticDaedra]

4 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

I see. I use that replacer, but the "flatfeet" version and only for Piper's outfit because it's not covered by the CCO collections, so hadn't observed the issue. The heeled version of the mod does appear to supply a SynthUniformF.txt file containing "Height=5.0" which is basically how HHS knows whether or not to set a heel height and by how much. UC is checking the HHS.HasHeight_HHS global function so if HHS has any height at all configured for an outfit UC will include the fat loss multiplier for it.

 

Were you not seeing any heel elevation when wearing that outfit? Or did you maybe install that replacer but then build the synth uniform from another replacer without heels instead (so the HHS file was present even though you weren't using the corresponding mesh)?

No, that is the only replacer I'm using. Dunno why it has that file included... in the meantime, I'm just selecting the "delete file" option, seems to be working. Little more than a minor annoyance now that I know what is causing it.

[JB.]

On 3/23/2023 at 2:03 PM, vaultbait said:

 

You're also not the first person to miss it, I'll add to the todo list to check for hard deps at start and pop up a message box if they're not present so other users can be spared the head-scratching.

I anticipate needing something similar. But I don't have the slightest idea how to do it if it doesn't come with a plugin. ?

[vaultbait]

18 hours ago, JB. said:

I anticipate needing something similar. But I don't have the slightest idea how to do it if it doesn't come with a plugin. ?

 

SUP F4SE has functions to check for the presence of specific files, but that's a Catch-22 problem. I looked into how AAF implemented its "NO F4SE" error message box, but it seems to still rely on being able to call F4SE.GetVersionMinor() which I guess really only catches cases where F4SE's scripts are installed but the wrapper wasn't used to launch the game engine. If I rule out detecting a complete lack of F4SE, it looks like F4SE.GetPluginVersion("SUP_F4SE") == -1 when SUP F4SE is not installed, though I haven't tested that yet (just going by the comments in the F4SE.psc stub).

Edit: I went ahead and knocked it out. Here's the solution I'm adding in 1.7.0 to check for all game plugins and F4SE plugins needed directly or indirectly by UC (tested and seems to work well enough):

 

Spoiler

 

Function CheckForDependencies()
    If F4SE.GetVersionMinor() == 0
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find F4SE. Make sure the game is started with f4se_loader.exe.")
    ElseIf F4SE.GetPluginVersion("SUP_F4SE") == -1
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find SUP F4SE. Please check your installation.")
    ElseIf F4SE.GetPluginVersion("F4EE") == -1
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find LooksMenu. Please check your installation.")
    ElseIf F4SE.GetPluginVersion("F4MCM") == -1
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find Mod Configuration Menu (MCM). Please check your installation.")
    ElseIf !Game.IsPluginInstalled("DLCCoast.esm")
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find the Far Harbor DLC. Please check your installation.")
    ElseIf !Game.IsPluginInstalled("DLCNukaWorld.esm")
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find the Nuka-World DLC. Please check your installation.")
    ElseIf !Game.IsPluginInstalled("LenA_RadMorphing.esp")
        Debug.MessageBox("Unhealthy Craving can't find Rad Morphing Redux. Please check your installation.")
    EndIf
EndFunction

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by vaultbait

[deathmorph]

Short feedback. I play with the basic settings, they are very balanced. Well done.

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, deathmorph said:

Short feedback. I play with the basic settings, they are very balanced. Well done.

 

Thanks! I'm glad it's working well.

[vaultbait]

1.7.0 (2023-03-30)

 

BEHAVIOR CHANGE: The original pace at which body fat changes progressed was useful for testing, but rather fast and volatile for long-term play. After extensive playtesting, the default Progression Factor in MCM has been reduced to 0.10, making the mod 10x more gradual at increasing and decreasing body fat. The original balance of factors has been retained, they just all have one tenth the effect by default now for a more realistic experience. If you preferred the old rate, simply set Progression Factor back to 1.00 in the Settings page of the Unhealthy Craving MCM and continue playing as usual.

 

• Changed Progression Factor default from 1.0 to 0.1 for gradual experience
• Added a startup check for all dependencies telling users what they missed

 

The only substantive changes are the reduced Progression Factor default for a somewhat more immersive/realistic experience, and the startup dependency checks to help cut down on confused bug reports that turn out to be missing dependencies. These are really just helpful to new users, so there's not a lot of point in upgrading if you're already successfully using the mod.