Unhealthy Craving

[Krazyone]

Feature Ideas...

 

Weights...

Underweight ................ Dangerously Underweight, can only use Pistols. Too Weak.                                                        Underweight Perk

                                       Violate installed... Chance to Blackout, instant Violate.

 

Skinny ............................ Chance for clothes to unequip, and fall to the ground.                                                               Skinny Perk.

 

Overweight .................. Chance for clothing to rip, getting destroyed. FO4 NudeBasics does this.                                 Overweight Perk

 

Obese ............................. During fighting, or sneaking. MCM Chance, for clothing to rip,  FO4 NudeBasics does this.      Obese Perk

 

Morbidly Obese .......... Clothes have a high chance of ripping, MCM Chance,  FO4 NudeBasics does this.                   Morbidly Obese Perk

                                        No Vats, can't hold up weapon to aim. Hip fire only.

                                           Violate installed... Chance for hunger induced Blackout's.

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, Krazyone said:

Feature Ideas...

 

Weights...

Underweight ................ Dangerously Underweight, can only use Pistols. Too Weak.                                                        Underweight Perk

                                       Violate installed... Chance to Blackout, instant Violate.

 

Skinny ............................ Chance for clothes to unequip, and fall to the ground.                                                               Skinny Perk.

 

Overweight .................. Chance for clothing to rip, getting destroyed. FO4 NudeBasics does this.                                 Overweight Perk

 

Obese ............................. During fighting, or sneaking. MCM Chance, for clothing to rip,  FO4 NudeBasics does this.      Obese Perk

 

Morbidly Obese .......... Clothes have a high chance of ripping, MCM Chance,  FO4 NudeBasics does this.                   Morbidly Obese Perk

                                        No Vats, can't hold up weapon to aim. Hip fire only.

                                           Violate installed... Chance for hunger induced Blackout's.

 

Thanks, I'll keep these in mind. I'm a little hesitant to do much with unequipping inventory since it can be fiddly and RMR already has highly configurable unequip thresholds based on slider values/triggers which could be leveraged for much of the same effect (including dropping and destruction). I'd rather not duplicate features of other popular mods like CSL or NB either, since people can use them together if they want. Violate integration is already planned as a craving/withdrawal effect, I just haven't started on the implementation for it yet.

Edited January 9, 2023 by vaultbait

[Krazyone]

11 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Thanks, I'll keep these in mind. I'm a little hesitant to do much with unequipping inventory since it can be fiddly and RMR already has highly configurable unequip thresholds based on slider values/triggers which could be leveraged for much of the same effect (including dropping and destruction). I'd rather not duplicate features of other popular mods like CSL or NB either, since people can use them together if they want. Violate integration is already planned as a craving/withdrawal effect, I just haven't started on the implementation for it yet.

RMR = Rad Morphing Redux

CSL   = Combat Strip Light

NB    = FO4 NudeBasics

 

Just working out what the acronyms mean...

 

Looking forward to future updates, I like the page telling you your stats. It would be nice if you could make an item to add to your Quick Select, to just press it to get a quick and instant stats pop-up. Maybe a Non-Consumable Food Item, that brings up your Stats.

 

Like Guns, Foods, and Chems do.

 

             =

             =

             =

             =

= = = =   = = = W

             =

             =

             =

             =

Edited January 10, 2023 by Krazyone

[rubber_duck]

[Possible bug?]

 

Not really sure if this is how it's supposed to be or just an issue on my end but...

 

Once my character gets Obese, she will no longer fight. What I mean by that is: I can equip the weapons in Pipboy, but cannot hold them, nor access VATS. However, If I get obese whilst holding the weapon, I cannot put it down (holster it).

 

I know v1.4.0 added this new feature; but I thought it was only activated once player reaches obscenely obese fat level, and at the moment of reporting, my character is just obese.

 

Any help is much appreciated! For now, I'll just disable that feature (pacifist) in UC MCM, soft reload the mod and hopefully everything will be fine.

[vaultbait]

22 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

[Possible bug?]

 

Not really sure if this is how it's supposed to be or just an issue on my end but...

 

Once my character gets Obese, she will no longer fight. What I mean by that is: I can equip the weapons in Pipboy, but cannot hold them, nor access VATS. However, If I get obese whilst holding the weapon, I cannot put it down (holster it).

 

I know v1.4.0 added this new feature; but I thought it was only activated once player reaches obscenely obese fat level, and at the moment of reporting, my character is just obese.

 

Any help is much appreciated! For now, I'll just disable that feature (pacifist) in UC MCM, soft reload the mod and hopefully everything will be fine.

 

It's possible something has broken the routine which adds and removes restrictions from the InputEnableLayer UC uses for blocking combat when BodyFat >= 0.9 (90% in the score card, obscenely obese according to the perks/effects), or that it's being miscalculated for some reason.

 

If you disable the corresponding feature in UC's MCM (The Portly Pacifist) does the problem go away? Also I don't think I tested crossing into obscenely obese with a weapon unholstered, I'll make a note to try it out and maybe force the character out of combat stance any time the combat restriction gets added to the layer.

[rubber_duck]

59 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

It's possible something has broken the routine which adds and removes restrictions from the InputEnableLayer UC uses for blocking combat when BodyFat >= 0.9 (90% in the score card, obscenely obese according to the perks/effects), or that it's being miscalculated for some reason.

 

If you disable the corresponding feature in UC's MCM (The Portly Pacifist) does the problem go away? Also I don't think I tested crossing into obscenely obese with a weapon unholstered, I'll make a note to try it out and maybe force the character out of combat stance any time the combat restriction gets added to the layer.

 

I wish I could give you more info, but sadly I can't.

 

I have since disabled the feature in MCM and UC functions properly. Well, mostly. The other issue I'm experiencing (it is a problem, but I'm using that to my advantage) is the SPECIAL debuffs - Strength, to be precise.

 

What would happen is I'd be Overweight and have -1 Str, but if I gain even more weight and become Fat (-2 Str), I wouldn't have any Strength penalties.

 

The following is the step by step procedure of what I did yesterday:

 

Spoiler

- Player Chubby; Str at 7 (Chubby doesn't alter Str)

- Consumed various chems/food -> Overweight (-1 Str) => Str now at 6

- Burn some weight real qucik - still Overweight

- Sleep for 8 hours = 4.00 weight gained, 1.23 weight burned -> still Overweight

- Upon waking up - RSE2 Period begins - provides +2 Str -> Player's Str now 8

- Consume high-fat foods (because why not) -> gain more, burn less -> Player now Fat (-2 Str) => Str now 9* <- this is not right

- Gain some more weight -> Player now Obese (-2 Str) -> Player's Str now 7 <- correct, RSE2 +2 Str and UC -2 => 0 Str

 

* - it seems like for some reason or another, it doesn't update the debuffs properly. Why exactly is that I have no idea; sometimes when I load the save I'd get the correct Str (altered by UC), and sometimes I'd be stuck with unaltered Str. It could be my heavy load order, script lag, or something else.

 

I'm not reporting this as bug as I don't believe it to be. There are quite a few people who run UC with no issues, and if I'm the only one experiencing this - it has to be something on my end.

 

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

- Player Chubby; Str at 7 (Chubby doesn't alter Str)

- Consumed various chems/food -> Overweight (-1 Str) => Str now at 6

- Burn some weight real qucik - still Overweight

- Sleep for 8 hours = 4.00 weight gained, 1.23 weight burned -> still Overweight

- Upon waking up - RSE2 Period begins - provides +2 Str -> Player's Str now 8

- Consume high-fat foods (because why not) -> gain more, burn less -> Player now Fat (-2 Str) => Str now 9* <- this is not right

- Gain some more weight -> Player now Obese (-2 Str) -> Player's Str now 7 <- correct, RSE2 +2 Str and UC -2 => 0 Str

 

* - it seems like for some reason or another, it doesn't update the debuffs properly. Why exactly is that I have no idea; sometimes when I load the save I'd get the correct Str (altered by UC), and sometimes I'd be stuck with unaltered Str. It could be my heavy load order, script lag, or something else.

 

No, you've found a proper bug. The UC_BodyFatEffect6 effect which gets applied when 0.6<=BF<0.7 (whose name text includes "-2 str") adds the UC_BodyFatPerk6 perk which casts the UC_BodyFatAbility6 spell which applies the abReduceStrength effect with a magnitude of 1.0. For anyone who hasn't made these sorts of mods, maybe this helps in appreciating the Byzantine and Kafkaesque levels of indirection involved in the FO4 CK. ?

 

I'll audit the buffs/debuffs from the perks and get a fix uploaded soon. Thanks for the close inspection!

 

Edit: The good news is that this is a cosmetic bug and seems to be the only error of this sort. The display text (name) of the UC_BodyFatEffect6 effect is incorrect compared to the list of buffs and debuffs in the FAQ (second post in this topic). The perk correctly subtracts 1 from strength, as intended. I compared all the UC_BodyFatEffect*effects and UC_BodyFatAbility* spells against the FAQ and the discrepancy you found seems to be the only error. I've already fixed the text in my local copy of the plugin and noted it in the known bugs list (third post in this topic).

Edited January 11, 2023 by vaultbait

[rubber_duck]

45 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

No, you've found a proper bug. The UC_BodyFatEffect6 effect which gets applied when 0.6<=BF<0.7 (whose name text includes "-2 str") adds the UC_BodyFatPerk6 perk which casts the UC_BodyFatAbility6 spell which applies the abReduceStrength effect with a magnitude of 1.0. For anyone who hasn't made these sorts of mods, maybe this helps in appreciating the Byzantine and Kafkaesque levels of indirection involved in the FO4 CK. ?

 

I'll audit the buffs/debuffs from the perks and get a fix uploaded soon. Thanks for the close inspection!

 

Edit: The good news is that this is a cosmetic bug and seems to be the only error of this sort. The display text (name) of the UC_BodyFatEffect6 effect is incorrect compared to the list of buffs and debuffs in the FAQ (second post in this topic). The perk correctly subtracts 1 from strength, as intended. I compared all the UC_BodyFatEffect*effects and UC_BodyFatAbility* spells against the FAQ and the discrepancy you found seems to be the only error. I've already fixed the text in my local copy of the plugin and noted it in the known bugs list (third post in this topic).

 

Well this was quick!

 

To be perfectly honest, it's not that I care about it that much, honestly. While playing the game I'd usually carry around 100 lbs so I have some space to spare, if you get my meaning. I only noticed it because I've configured Active Effecs on HUD to show current game time and inventory situation (used/available) - that's how I noticed it. No biggie!

 

As always, keep up the great work! The new features (especially the ability to add custom items) are amazing, and I'm really looking forward to the future releases of not only UC, but your other mods as well (hopefully Fallout 4 mods, it's pretty much the only game I play these days)! Nonetheless, thanks a lot for very fast response! Take care!

 

Also, and I'm crossing fingers for this, are you planning to add configurable MCM hotkey? (Yet again, sorry; but I love 'em hotkeys!)

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by rubber_duck

[vaultbait]

26 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

To be perfectly honest, it's not that I care about it that much, honestly. While playing the game I'd usually carry around 100 lbs so I have some space to spare, if you get my meaning. I only noticed it because I've configured Active Effecs on HUD to show current game time and inventory situation (used/available) - that's how I noticed it. No biggie!

 

I also use AEoHUD but hadn't considered using it to track that sort of stuff. Interesting approach.

 

26 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

As always, keep up the great work! The new features (especially the ability to add custom items) are amazing, and I'm really looking forward to the future releases of not only UC, but your other mods as well (hopefully Fallout 4 mods, it's pretty much the only game I play these days)! Nonetheless, thanks a lot for very fast response! Take care!

 

Yes, FO4 is basically the only thing I mod. I've been a Fallout fan since the original, and 76 isn't really moddable in any fun sort of way, so until FO5...

 

If you like being enslaved by super mutants, you'll like my next mod, whenever I get it into a distributable state.

 

26 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

Also, and I'm crossing fingers for this, are you planning to add configurable MCM hotkey? (Yet again, sorry; but I love 'em hotkeys!)

 

No promises, but I've added it to my list of things to look into. Since I rely on a game controller, I tend to be less reliant on hotkeys simply due to the number of available buttons/gestures/whatever on a controller. @Krazyone's favoriteable consumable idea is more viable for controller users, so if I do one I'll probably do both for consistency. But truth be told, I;d rather find a way to expose that information through more immersive in-game sources, the score card in MCM was more of an afterthought for debugging purposes.

[rubber_duck]

12 hours ago, vaultbait said:

No promises, but I've added it to my list of things to look into. Since I rely on a game controller, I tend to be less reliant on hotkeys simply due to the number of available buttons/gestures/whatever on a controller. 's favoriteable consumable idea is more viable for controller users, so if I do one I'll probably do both for consistency. But truth be told, I;d rather find a way to expose that information through more immersive in-game sources, the score card in MCM was more of an afterthought for debugging purposes.

 

Yeah, I agree - MCM hotkey (even though I personally would love it) isn't the most immersive approach. That being said...

 

What about creating and implementing Bathroom scales?

 

Bathroom scales are used as traps, but if you could somehow make it work - it'd be as immersive as it can be. Basically, the player is able to craft UC Bathroom scale (at chem bench and, ideally, under Unhealthy Craving category). Upon crafting, the newly crafted item (UC Scale) is added to Player's MISC items (in Pipboy).

 

To use the scale, the player should be able to drop the scale from inventory, and then to get info about weight either stand on the scale (this would be as immersive as it can be, but it'd be more complicated to do) or interact with the scale (this one shoots up the menu with 2 buttons: check weight and pick up).

 

Some details regarding the usage of the scale (to get the idea):

Spoiler

Stand on the scale: once player drops the scale, they should stand on it. Upon standing on it, either the UC Score popup appears or better yet - a new notification ('Your current weight is: xx.xx%').

 

- OR -

 

Interact with the scale: player drops the scale -> aims at it -> presses E) Use to use the scale -> scale gives player some options in form of popup menu with at least 2 buttons: Check current weight and Pick up.

Check current weight displays either a notification (similar to the one I mentioned above for Stand approach) or current UC Score popup.

Pick up does just that - removes the scale from its drop point and moves it to player's inventory.

 

Whichever approach you take I'm sure it'll end up being great! Also, and this might be kind-of important, but make sure to check out Campsite as both of the approaches I just described (especially the Interact) are heavily inspired by it. I'm sure it'll come handy!

 

Hopefully this helps!

Edited January 12, 2023 by rubber_duck

[vaultbait]

6 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

What about creating and implementing Bathroom scales?

 

Bathroom scales are used as traps, but if you could somehow make it work - it'd be as immersive as it can be.

 

Yeah, when I mentioned trying to find a more immersive solution, having a scale of some sort was one of the first things to cross my mind, but it didn't dawn on me that there's already a mesh in the game for it. That's an excellent point! It shouldn't be too hard to add a custom item with the same mesh and give it activation options, similar to the soap in Get Dirty.

 

Thanks, that's going on the todo list!

 

Edit: It may not be quite as simple as just creating a miscobject reusing the trap's mesh, since it probably doesn't have physics. It will require some fiddling and may need to be copied in order to add physics with Nifskope (I've successfully transplanted the physics data from static meshes to moveablestatics, but I've never tried the other way around).

Edited January 12, 2023 by vaultbait

[SexSorcerer12]

On 12/4/2022 at 7:40 AM, rubber_duck said:

 

Thanks a lot for sharing this!

 

Mind if I ask about your other settings? Have you disabled 'Only doctors can reset morphs' and 'Additive morphing'? I just switched to RMR 2.2 and got Unhealthy Craving as my trigger of choice.

 

If you could send your whole RMR config file, that'd be great!

 

Also, great work with this one @vaultbait! I'm really looking forward to seeing future versions of this mod, keep up the great work!

Do you know of a body I could download with all these sliders for CBBE?

[SexSorcerer12]

57 minutes ago, SexSorcerer12 said:

Do you know of a body I could download with all these sliders for CBBE?

Nvm, I figured it out. 

[VenomousOuroboros]

I seem to be running into an issue of no food items having any effect on my "score" with this mod.  I considered that MAIM might be the culprit, but Fancy Lads Snack Cakes, Nuka Cola, and every other "junk food" doesn't do a friggin' thing, whether UC is before or after MAIM (and its patches) in the load order.  I tried soft resetting UC, and doing a full reset (via the MCM), but still no food has any effect.  Are there any other mods (or types of mods) I should try isolating to fix this issue?

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, VenomousOuroboros said:

I seem to be running into an issue of no food items having any effect on my "score" with this mod.  I considered that MAIM might be the culprit, but Fancy Lads Snack Cakes, Nuka Cola, and every other "junk food" doesn't do a friggin' thing, whether UC is before or after MAIM (and its patches) in the load order.  I tried soft resetting UC, and doing a full reset (via the MCM), but still no food has any effect.  Are there any other mods (or types of mods) I should try isolating to fix this issue?

 

In the debugging section of UC's MCM, there are toggles to enable some additional notifications for adjusting body fat and detected actions. Turn those on and eat something. Do you see a notification scroll by mentioning what you ate and an adjustment amount? Or does it just report the item and no change? With an affected food item in your inventory, run the player.showinventory console command and check for the hexadecimal ID listed for that item and let me know what it is. If you've got FO4Edit, you can also open your full load order in it and then search for that ID and see what plugins it reports altering it (if any). Normal food items determine their body fat adjustment through a combination of item weight and value, so if you have a mod which alters those downward significantly (while not making them completely zero), then that could significantly reduce the associated fat gain.

 

Junk food and meds are different though, since they add or subtract a set amount of body fat. If those aren't working, it makes me suspect that their form IDs aren't matching the abbreviated IDs in the included txt files, or possibly that the main quest script is unable to find/read those files. If you have Papyrus logging enabled, your log should include a line each time you load a save or when you trigger a reload of the mod, saying "[Unhealthy Craving] Populating formlists from external text files" and hopefully no error messages after that. Script errors related to this mod are probably going to include "uc_" or "uc:" in stack traces too.

 

For really deep inspection of the formlist loading, there's an option in MCM for verbose formlist debugging info. Turn that on, then use the debug option to soft reload the mod and exit MCM. Wait for notification that the reload completed, then go back into MCM and turn the verbose logging back off (otherwise it adds a log of noise in the log every time you load a save). After that, your log should include additional lines after the above mentioned "populating formlists" with entry counts, items and their IDs too.

[VenomousOuroboros]

I'll hit the first three suggestions you made:

 

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

In the debugging section of UC's MCM, there are toggles to enable some additional notifications for adjusting body fat and detected actions. Turn those on and eat something.

I turned one all three toggles.  I ate Funnel Cakes, Pork n' Beans, Nuka Cola, and Cram.  No messages came up.

(My Status Effects menu still show "Emaciated", so UC was working at some point.  I actually distinctly remember getting pretty plump on Stimpacks.)

 

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

If you've got FO4Edit, you can also open your full load order in it and then search for that ID and see what plugins it reports altering it (if any).

The only plugin that alters any snack/junk food item is M8r_Item_Tags_Vanilla_EN.esp, and it only changes the name to "[RadFood] Fancy Lads Snack Cakes" (for example)

 

 

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

Junk food and meds are different though, since they add or subtract a set amount of body fat. If those aren't working, it makes me suspect that their form IDs aren't matching the abbreviated IDs in the included txt files, or possibly that the main quest script is unable to find/read those files.

The formIDs still match.  Fancy Lads Snack Cakes is 000330B4 in Fallout4.esm and 0330B4 in JunkFoodItems.txt.

 

I'll check on the Papyrus logs in a little while.  Still, this is what I've seen so far.

 

[vaultbait]

54 minutes ago, VenomousOuroboros said:

I'll hit the first three suggestions you made:

 

I turned one all three toggles.  I ate Funnel Cakes, Pork n' Beans, Nuka Cola, and Cram.  No messages came up.

(My Status Effects menu still show "Emaciated", so UC was working at some point.  I actually distinctly remember getting pretty plump on Stimpacks.)

 

The only plugin that alters any snack/junk food item is M8r_Item_Tags_Vanilla_EN.esp, and it only changes the name to "[RadFood] Fancy Lads Snack Cakes" (for example)

 

 

The formIDs still match.  Fancy Lads Snack Cakes is 000330B4 in Fallout4.esm and 0330B4 in JunkFoodItems.txt.

 

I'll check on the Papyrus logs in a little while.  Still, this is what I've seen so far.

 

In that case, my next guess is that something is breaking the OnItemEquipped registration, or the resulting event function or one of the functions it's calling.

 

Which version of UC are you using? Did you use a different version previously and has the breakage possibly coincided with upgrading to a newer version of UC? (I try to make the mod upgrade itself seamlessly, but it's possible that didn't work for some reason.) You have the latest versions of F4SE, SUP F4SE, and RMR installed, right? (The most recent version of UC started relying on more SUP F4SE functions, so maybe that's out of date.)

 

Anyway, I expect you're going to find errors in your Papyrus log. If not, I can add some additional debugging to the main quest script and give you a patch to test with so we can get more telemetry.

[Addywil]

32 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

ou have the latest versions of F4SE, SUP F4SE, and RMR installed, right? (The most recent version of UC started relying on more SUP F4SE functions, so maybe that's out of date.)

I had the same problem, and I noticed that I had missed to install SUP. I installed it and now the mod works (for me at least).

 

Great mod!

[VenomousOuroboros]

12 hours ago, Addywil said:

I had the same problem, and I noticed that I had missed to install SUP. I installed it and now the mod works (for me at least).

 

Great mod!

Ditto.  I had installed SUP, but never enabled it.  Because I'm sharp like that.

Everything's working now.

[Lestat_Rhodes]

im having a problem with the mcm i cant view the triggers part of the slider set

That's all i can get it to show so i cant get the mod to work

Edited January 19, 2023 by Lestat_Rhodes

[LenAnderson]

2 hours ago, Lestat_Rhodes said:

im having a problem with the mcm i cant view the triggers part of the slider set

That's all i can get it to show so i cant get the mod to work

 

My guess is that RMR is not properly installed, or MCM is outdated.

• What version of MCM do you have installed?
• Upload your MCM log (.../Documents/My Games/Fallout4/F4SE/MCM.log)
• Upload your papyrus log: https://www.creationkit.com/fallout4/index.php?title=Enable_Debug_Logging

[rubber_duck]

[Not really a bug, not really a feature...?]

 

Hey there (yet again)!

 

Can I ask how effects (MagicEffects) work in UC? As in, how exactly do they alter the weight gain/loss?

 

The latest version (v1.4.0) added support for user-defined stuff to alter the weight (all those .txt files inside UC directory). However, after adding certain items and effects to the correct files, I can't help but notice that the weight loss became very slow.

 

I don't think it's related to items as they have a flat setting - gain 3.0% or lose 1.0%. However, effects are a bit different.

 

I added a bunch of different things to FatGainEffects and FatLossEffects respectfully. I've attached those two files (and commented what's what) so check it out.

 

Basically, the potential problem is that fat loss (burn) is very slow - it seems like all the effects (both gain and burn) are stacking together on top of one another.

 

Allow me to explain:

Spoiler

I've added Sex Attributes Self-Esteem as magic effects to have impact on weight burn - No Self-Esteem, Low, Lousy and Average Self-Esteem are all for Weight Gain. On the other hand, Good, High and Soaring Self-Esteem are for Weight Loss.

 

On top of that, I've also added Sex Exhaustion effect to Weight Loss and Frustration and all 5 Trauma levels to Weight Gain.

 

This all means that I have 10 entries in Weight Gain, and only 4 entries in Weight Loss.

 

At the moment, my character's Trauma level is 0 - not traumatized. Her Self-Esteem is Good. This should mean that I'd burn weight at least 25% faster due to having a few active effects that burn weight and no active effects that gain weight.

 

However, the most weight I managed to burn was only 0.34%, and that was after quite intense combat and running and sprinting all the time.

 

I could be wrong here, but it seems like the effects are conflicting with each other. A few days ago I added several more effects to Weight Gain list, and my fat burn was straight-up 0.0%. After removing the newly added effects from the list, it got back to normal.

 

On previous UC versions, I'd burn around 2.3% just by playing easily. However, due to more effects being present in both lists, it seems like that slowed it down drastically.

 

On top of that, the jumping - it also affects how much % I'd burn. If I jump frequently, the hourly weight loss would be lower (I'd lose less) than if I don't jump that often. It might be just me, but I noticed it.

 

Finally, I can't help but think that all the extra entries I made to both lists do nothing more than just slow the weight burn down. Again, check those two files I uploaded.

 

I don't want to raise the alarm and report this as a bug or a problem because I don't know if it is one. I didn't have the chance to check the source yet but I might just do it this weekend.

 

Any help/info is much appreciated, thanks in advance! As always, keep up the great work and take care!

 

FatGainEffects.txt FatLossEffects.txt

Edited January 19, 2023 by rubber_duck

[vaultbait]

4 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

Can I ask how effects (MagicEffects) work in UC? As in, how exactly do they alter the weight gain/loss?

 

The short answer is that the MGEF forms listed in FatGainEffects.txt each multiply your periodic fat burn (metabolism) amount by 0.75 reducing burn by 25%, while each one in FatLossEffects.txt multiplies it by 1.25 increasing burn by 25%. These are cumulative multipliers, so if Player.HasMagicEffect() returns true for 3 gain effects and 2 loss effects that's a cumulative 0.75*0.75*0.75*1.25*1.25 or approximately 0.66, so you'll burn 34% less fat during each periodic metabolism check.

 

A word of caution, it was assumed the gain and loss effect lists would be fairly small, since every periodic metabolism pulse runs a loop over their contents and calls a Papyrus function for each of them to check whether that effect is active on the player at that point in time, so excessively long lists there can mean more time spent calculating the effective fat burn rate.

 

Edit: One more thing I would be remiss in not pointing out... As anyone with a basic grasp of arithmetic will likely realize, 0.75 * 1.25 is not 1.0, it's about 0.94, so this means a gain and a loss effect won't completely cancel one another out, It takes about 9 loss effects to cancel 7 gain effects (within less than a percent error anyway). If people really want gain and loss effects to cancel one another out 1:1, then I should change the gain multiplier from 0.75 to 0.8. Note that fat gain and loss chems aren't 1:1 either though, in that case it's more drastic insofar as fat gain items add 0.03 to the body fat score but fat loss items only subtract 0.01, a 3:1 ratio.

Edited January 19, 2023 by vaultbait

[rubber_duck]

55 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

The short answer is that the MGEF forms listed in FatGainEffects.txt each multiply your periodic fat burn (metabolism) amount by 0.75 reducing burn by 25%, while each one in FatLossEffects.txt multiplies it by 1.25 increasing burn by 25%. These are cumulative multipliers, so if Player.HasMagicEffect() returns true for 3 gain effects and 2 loss effects that's a cumulative 0.75*0.75*0.75*1.25*1.25 or approximately 0.66, so you'll burn 34% less fat during each periodic metabolism check.

 

A word of caution, it was assumed the gain and loss effect lists would be fairly small, since every periodic metabolism pulse runs a loop over their contents and calls a Papyrus function for each of them to check whether that effect is active on the player at that point in time, so excessively long lists there can mean more time spent calculating the effective fat burn rate.

 

Edit: One more thing I would be remiss in not pointing out... As anyone with a basic grasp of arithmetic will likely realize, 0.75 * 1.25 is not 1.0, it's about 0.94, so this means a gain and a loss effect won't completely cancel one another out, It takes about 9 loss effects to cancel 7 gain effects (within less than a percent error anyway). If people really want gain and loss effects to cancel one another out 1:1, then I should change the gain multiplier from 0.75 to 0.8. Note that fat gain and loss chems aren't 1:1 either though, in that case it's more drastic insofar as fat gain items add 0.03 to the body fat score but fat loss items only subtract 0.01, a 3:1 ratio.

 

Thanks for replying!

 

So you're telling me that if I have 10 effects for one (gain) and only 5 effects for the other (burn), it should work like this? Damn, I didn't even realize it! It's a simple math, really.

 

Also, regarding the 3:1 ratio, should I just add more effects to loss forms? I mean, based on the maths you mentioned in the 1st section of your reply, I should (and definitely could) do that, but is it recommended? Asking because right now, as you've probably seen, my lists aren't exactly small. They're not massive, but I wouldn't call them smaller either.

 

Nonetheless, thanks for clarifying that out! I'm definitely writing this down.

 

[Update #2]

 

Now hang on a second... 1 MGEF in GAIN list multiplies metabolism by 0.75 and 1 MGEF in LOSS list multiplies it by 1.25. That I understand.

 

What I don't really understand is why is my fat burn that low. Hear me out.

 

You said the UC calculates it ever N game minutes (configurable in MCM). The math works in theory, but I know which MGEFs are active and which ones aren't at the time of calculations. I'm only having trouble understanding this as I know that only 1 MGEF was active at the time. To be more precise, in my FatLossEffects.txt I've added Sex Attributes Self-Esteem - and at the time only SA Good Self-Esteem was active! In theory, this single active effect should mean that I should've burned approx. 25% more than I actually did.

 

For example, let's say that my metabolism burned -2.0% fat. If I'm not wrong here (which I definitely could be), the single active MGEF I mentioned above (SA Good Self-Esteem) should add 25% on top of what metabolism calculated. 25% of 2.0 is 0.5, and this means that I should've burned 2.5%. Why I burned only 0.20% - I have no clue.

 

Again, I might be wrong on this but I'm really curious as to why it calculated what it calculated (lol). If I have more forms in one list than the other, it shouldn't matter as, despite being present there, certain MGEFs aren't active and UC should only calculate with them in mind if they're active.

 

Sorry if I made it sound complicated and/or unclear; I haven't slept in nearly 22 hours and before I go I wanted to reply.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by rubber_duck
Update #2

[vaultbait]

31 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

So you're telling me that if I have 10 effects for one (gain) and only 5 effects for the other (burn), it should work like this? Damn, I didn't even realize it! It's a simple math, really.

 

Yes, if you have that many qualifying effects active at once, then it would be 0.75^10 * 1.25^5 = 0.17 so an 83% reduction in metabolic fat burn. That's very slow.

 

31 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

Also, regarding the 3:1 ratio, should I just add more effects to loss forms? I mean, based on the maths you mentioned in the 1st section of your reply, I should (and definitely could) do that, but is it recommended? Asking because right now, as you've probably seen, my lists aren't exactly small. They're not massive, but I wouldn't call them smaller either.

 

I would avoid compounding too many effects. For me, having high heels and smoking both burning fat more quickly while pregnancy or contraceptives slow it down (interspersed by no metabolic fat loss any time I'm wearing power armor) is already enough complexity to sufficiently gamify that aspect of the mod. Each to their own of course, but the mod also already gives you a number of other non-effect-based ways to gain and lose fat (eating/drinking, chems, sleeping, sex, swimming, jumping, running/sprinting,encumbrance, exercise equipment...) that much more just gets lost in the noise.

 

31 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

Nonetheless, thanks for clarifying that out! I'm definitely writing this down.

 

Back when I made the first release I also tried to capture it in the answer to "What activities cause you to gain and lose fat?" under the FAQ (second post in this topic), the metabolism based bullets in the spoiler there have Light 'Em Up smoking as a fat loss effect example and FPE(R) Contraceptives as a fat gain example. I've been updating it for changes in newer versions, but I could probably do a better job of making it clear the effects are all cumulative multipliers.

Edited January 19, 2023 by vaultbait