Being a Cow (Alternate Version)

[HerChianti]

1 hour ago, Addywil said:

The idea (which I took from what NoirXiaoba said many many pages back in this thread) is to have three alternative.
No hooves - For those who want no transformation of the hands.
Clawed fingers - For those who want more anthropomorphic hooves that can still grab and use weapons.
Full Hooves - Fully formed hooves that have an effect similar to the DD bondage mittens, with no option to grab things anymore. I guess this could be a seperate option if you want full hooves but still use weapons and such as normal (just expect it to look a bit weird).

Ooooh nice! Looking forward to that!

  

1 hour ago, Addywil said:

Thanks for the references. There are some ideas from that link that could be worth testing out, like making the claws take up more of the fingers.  just don't expect the cartoonish style ? as I think that will jar a bit with the rest of the transformations.

Oh don't worry! Obviously the artstyle's gonna be whatever fits the mod best. I mainly wanted to provide you with references to get ideas on how to design the hooved/clawed fingers.

[botticelli]

1 hour ago, Xew095 said:

AE, HDT-SMP. But the skeleton doesn't work at the tail, it's just straight. Or should it just be straight?

no, it shouldn't. As I said, it's not made for HDT-SMP. There's a link to some SMP tail mod somewhere in this thread.

[crococat]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:32 PM, botticelli said:

see this post above.

Seems it is great thing. Thanks for redirecting. Had not much experience with this plugin yet.

But anyway disabling mod to proceed any npcs exept selected may be good option.

[Xew095]

1 hour ago, botticelli said:

no, it shouldn't. As I said, it's not made for HDT-SMP. There's a link to some SMP tail mod somewhere in this thread.

Hmm, there is a problem here, there is a patch for HDT-SMP, but the tail does not respond to it. What's with the patch, what's without it, the tail is a pipe. Magic =D

[safado]

On 12/1/2022 at 5:29 PM, Xew095 said:

Hmm, there is a problem here, there is a patch for HDT-SMP, but the tail does not respond to it. What's with the patch, what's without it, the tail is a pipe. Magic =D

 

First:  HDT-PE is not HDT-SMP. Both are different setups that are trying to do similar simulations, and cant be together unless you know a lot about its config.  HDT-PE was abandoned many years ago, because HAVOK tools got acquired by Microsoft and public version was eliminated. HDT change her development to Bullet Physics framework (open source) and named the work Skinned Mesh Physics (HDT-SMP).  There is no official HDT-PE for SKyrimSE, only HDT-SMP.  HDT abandoned HDT-SMP and is developed by a different team with the name Faster HDT-SMP.  We got lucky, somebody took over.

 

Maybe this explains your issue:

Normal tail follow walking animation, skeleton node position. SMP tail use different custom skeleton node (included in mesh) that follows SMP framework simulation (defined by xml file from tail mod).  If the mesh uses old HDT-PE node in SkyrimSE then there's no data to follow from framework not being installed and is static on default position or stretched to center of map (CTD most likely).  Likely the same if Tail is SMP compatible, but HDT-SMP(old name) core files are not installed or glitching because are for different SKSE64 version.

 

In my experience:

The file "BAC SE tail HDT-SMP.7z" included in the download list of this mod works in SkyrimSE using Faster HDT-SMP.  Latest was 1.49, at the time of this post, recommend to use non-CUDA AVX versions, AVX2 if very recent CPU (never use AVX512, feature is abandoned by intel).  Core only includes basic config, and the files for Body need to installed separably (body SMP files not really needed for tail animation), 3BA already includes them but need to be judicious during install menu selection for CBPC mix integration (SMP will still work if body is full CBPC). Do not know for other bodies mod, I think BHUNP also include the necessary SMP files too.

 

Your possible situation:

You may have a different setup that is breaking SMP core functions.   If that is the case, there's a lot more that is not working on the SMP assets, like SMP wigs. Try latest version of Faster HDT-SMP and remove old HDT-SMP.  If only the tails are not working, then you may have overwritten the tail mesh with another mod that has it, the custom SMP tail has custom skeleton included that is referenced by SMP without conflict with animations using original skeleton names (virtualCBBE mesh, virtual ground,  and skeleton with custom tail).  Check your mod manager setup, recommend to make BAC overwrite everything and the SMP tail patch to overwrite BAC during testing. 

 

Recommend:

Use loose files version of BAC 2 with SkyrimSE. Loose files load last and take precedence over conflicting BSA files, help with mod conflict.

 

These are the current compatible setups for Faster HDT-SMP dll. If your Faster HDT-SMP dll do not match the game\SKSE64 combination, then it does not work.

Spoiler

AE: Skyrim 1.6.640 - SKSE64 2.2.2
AE: Skyrim 1.6.353 - SKSE64 2.1.5
SE: Skyrim 1.5.97 - SKSE64 2.0.20
VR: Skyrim 2.0.12 - SKSEVR 2.0.12

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by safado

[dragongodmod117]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:09 PM, NoirXiaoba said:

 

Great. Reference images.

Agreed.

[awire]

@botticelli
I tried the 2.+ update again in VR, it seems my papyrus extender was not on the newest version.

But i got a crash when i got my face mutation.

Is it because of my race ? normally i play a human.

crash-2022-12-04-18-14-12.log

[botticelli]

2 minutes ago, awire said:

@botticelli
I tried the 2.+ update again in VR, it seems my papyrus extender was not on the newest version.

But i got a crash when i got my face mutation.

Is it because of my race ? normally i play a human.

crash-2022-12-04-18-14-12.log 45.61 kB · 0 downloads

If you used the SE version: The converted headparts cause crashes also in SE and AE. Use the headparts of the LE version instead (download LE loose files archive and extract only data\meshes\bac\heads).

[Addywil]

As I have mentioned before, my plan for the final stage of the hand hooves was to reuse a lot of the foot hooves. So today I took the hoof, and without changing the topology, deformed it to suit the hands better. What I wanted to check in with you is what you think of the size of it. Is it good? should I make it bigger/smaller? I might even do the same for the metal shoe, but not sure about reusing the armour. Thoughts?

I also included a picture that show the original size of the hand.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Addywil
Grammar

[DivineDefiance]

10 hours ago, Addywil said:

As I have mentioned before, my plan for the final stage of the hand hooves was to reuse a lot of the foot hooves. So today I took the hoof, and without changing the topology, deformed it to suit the hands better. What I wanted to check in with you is what you think of the size of it. Is it good? should I make it bigger/smaller? I might even do the same for the metal shoe, but not sure about reusing the armour. Thoughts?

I also included a picture that show the original size of the hand.

 it took me a moment but for some reason it looks to large on the body but perfectly the right size on the hand proportion, then I realized it looks like that because the sole of the hooves are facing inwards rather then down, other then that it looks really good.

For mods where people run on all fours or something, making the hooves face all downwards instead of inwards would probably also look better.

Edited December 6, 2022 by DivineDefiance
extra words

[NoirXiaoba]

11 hours ago, Addywil said:

I also included a picture that show the original size of the hand.

First of all, these look great. I won't use them as I'm more in the hybrid hand-claws camp, but they're very promising. I think the size is okay, maybe a little bit smaller would be fine, but not larger. I agree with @DivineDefiance, I'd love to see how they hold up with animations forcing the character on all fours.

 

You hinted at creating a hybrid hand-claw version for the final stage earlier. Will you create an armoured version of the final hybrid version as well?

 

Finally, I feel it's not said often enough: you're extremely talented, and I love your creations! I would politely ask you to stay out of the fetish section in my brain, but then... *points at the sceen shots* Please, never do.

[botticelli]

14 hours ago, Addywil said:

As I have mentioned before, my plan for the final stage of the hand hooves was to reuse a lot of the foot hooves. So today I took the hoof, and without changing the topology, deformed it to suit the hands better. What I wanted to check in with you is what you think of the size of it. Is it good? should I make it bigger/smaller? I might even do the same for the metal shoe, but not sure about reusing the armour. Thoughts?

I also included a picture that show the original size of the hand.

I'd say the size of them looks perfectly ok. Even for the inwards facing because if I remember that correctly, if you use the Beastess sneaking anims, she'd put her hands flat on the grpund and in this case the hovves vould be correctly facing. The (minor) glitch I anticipate here is that the hooves may clip into the ground as they end below the hand's surface.

[Addywil]

9 hours ago, DivineDefiance said:

 it took me a moment but for some reason it looks to large on the body but perfectly the right size on the hand proportion, then I realized it looks like that because the sole of the hooves are facing inwards rather then down, other then that it looks really good.

For mods where people run on all fours or something, making the hooves face all downwards instead of inwards would probably also look better.

You have to take into account that this is the neutral body pose, and to me it makes sense to face the hoof in the same direction as the hand as the wrist will still be animated where it is applicable.  As botticelli pointed out, if the animation for all-four-walk has the palm facing downwards, then this hoof should face downwards as well.
 

8 hours ago, NoirXiaoba said:

First of all, these look great. I won't use them as I'm more in the hybrid hand-claws camp, but they're very promising. I think the size is okay, maybe a little bit smaller would be fine, but not larger. I agree with @DivineDefiance, I'd love to see how they hold up with animations forcing the character on all fours.

 

You hinted at creating a hybrid hand-claw version for the final stage earlier. Will you create an armoured version of the final hybrid version as well?

 

Finally, I feel it's not said often enough: you're extremely talented, and I love your creations! I would politely ask you to stay out of the fetish section in my brain, but then... *points at the sceen shots* Please, never do.

 

I am with you; I will not use this stage myself as I prefer to play with a hybrid hand/claw. But I thought that it would be mean of me to not make this stage as well. Because I am able to reuse much of the foot hooves for this stage, and that it does not have any fingers to weight to the bones, it will be the easiest stage to complete anyway.

In my mind, the final stage for the hybrid version was stage02 that I posted earlier. The plan is to make some sort of gauntlet for it. Maybe, also some metal lining for the claws to symbolise metal shoes, I don't know. But I think that will be at a later time. I first want to finish them sans armour (or armooor ). I also have an urge to make some sort of fingerless leather gloves for them (maybe as an alternative you can choose through bodyslide rather then in game for simplicity).

You're too kind .  I take it as a huge compliment if I can manage to tickle someone fetishes with what I create. I can't deny that I am having fun (for the most time) creating these.

 

5 hours ago, botticelli said:

The (minor) glitch I anticipate here is that the hooves may clip into the ground as they end below the hand's surface.

That is a point I did not consider. I will try move the bottom of the claws/hooves closer to the palm of the hand. Might have to shrink them a little.

[NoirXiaoba]

6 hours ago, Addywil said:

In my mind, the final stage for the hybrid version was stage02 that I posted earlier. The plan is to make some sort of gauntlet for it. Maybe, also some metal lining for the claws to symbolise metal shoes, I don't know. But I think that will be at a later time. I first want to finish them sans armour (or armooor ). I also have an urge to make some sort of fingerless leather gloves for them (maybe as an alternative you can choose through bodyslide rather then in game for simplicity).

All the Yes to your hybrid and armour ideas! I'd love to see the cloven variant with actual claws for unarmed damage instead of flat headed horn, even if that's technically "unrealistic" and I corrected you earlier about the hind hooves.

 

Speaking less about this mod and more in a general direction, I'd love to see you create some more body armour as well for a fully transformed cowgirl. Especially with fully grown udders most armour becomes impractical or unusable. I realize, though, that this isn't the focus of BAC, it's just that I usually ignore all the slave/sub content and don't play the storyline. (I just like cows. The other stuff doesn't tickle my fancy.)

[SilentOption]

15 hours ago, botticelli said:

I'd say the size of them looks perfectly ok. Even for the inwards facing because if I remember that correctly, if you use the Beastess sneaking anims, she'd put her hands flat on the grpund and in this case the hovves vould be correctly facing. The (minor) glitch I anticipate here is that the hooves may clip into the ground as they end below the hand's surface.

wow I can't wait for the next version

 

[SilentOption]

@botticelli I do have a question for the next version do we need a new save or just clean it would suffice?

[HerChianti]

9 hours ago, Addywil said:

I am with you; I will not use this stage myself as I prefer to play with a hybrid hand/claw. But I thought that it would be mean of me to not make this stage as well.

I completely agree with not trying to exclude people with specific preferences. I'm on the claw/hoof-hands camp as well rather than full hooves but it would be unfair to make just one or the other.

 

Can't wait for the non-full hooves variant! Your work is amazing.

[DivineDefiance]

9 hours ago, Addywil said:

You have to take into account that this is the neutral body pose, and to me it makes sense to face the hoof in the same direction as the hand as the wrist will still be animated where it is applicable.  As botticelli pointed out, if the animation for all-four-walk has the palm facing downwards, then this hoof should face downwards as well.

yeah, I didn't think about that.

[botticelli]

8 hours ago, SilentOption said:

@botticelli I do have a question for the next version do we need a new save or just clean it would suffice?

Depends. If I get those new hooves from @Addywil before relasing, you might need a new save. Else I'd say cleaning the existing one should suffice.

[Addywil]

23 minutes ago, botticelli said:

Depends. If I get those new hooves from @Addywil before relasing, you might need a new save. Else I'd say cleaning the existing one should suffice.

I would not count on the hooves being done any time soon.

[botticelli]

2 hours ago, Addywil said:

I would not count on the hooves being done any time soon.

That's ok. I'll do a bugfix version before Christmas then. That won't need a new game.

[Addywil]

16 hours ago, NoirXiaoba said:

Speaking less about this mod and more in a general direction, I'd love to see you create some more body armour as well for a fully transformed cowgirl. Especially with fully grown udders most armour becomes impractical or unusable. I realize, though, that this isn't the focus of BAC, it's just that I usually ignore all the slave/sub content and don't play the storyline. (I just like cows. The other stuff doesn't tickle my fancy.)

I know the feeling of udders clipping through the armour/clothes, it takes away a little of the immersion. The idea sounds fun. I have never done full armour before though, which makes it both scary and enticing at the same time. I know there is also a risk that I would start going overboard and over design something like that. I will keep it at the back of my mind, maybe spin it a few times and see what might come out of it (just don't get your hopes up).

On the other hand, I don't know what else to make after the hands are done, so who knows.

[HerChianti]

1 hour ago, Addywil said:

On the other hand, I don't know what else to make after the hands are done, so who knows.

Oh jeez I have so many ideas.... ?

 

Though like you said, there's the risk of going overboard and get overloaded with ideas and feel burned out. But I'll start with a very obvious one: Nipple piercings (rings/chains/studs/bars/etc), a staple of most cowgirl fetish paraphernalia! Adding SMP support to the rings and chains would be preferable so they don't look like they're floating motionless in the air

[NoirXiaoba]

5 hours ago, Addywil said:

I know the feeling of udders clipping through the armour/clothes, it takes away a little of the immersion. The idea sounds fun. I have never done full armour before though, which makes it both scary and enticing at the same time. I know there is also a risk that I would start going overboard and over design something like that. I will keep it at the back of my mind, maybe spin it a few times and see what might come out of it (just don't get your hopes up).

On the other hand, I don't know what else to make after the hands are done, so who knows.

 

This is entirely reasonable. Please don't feel pressured in any way by my comment. I was just musing, so don't worry that I might get my hopes up. Having this mod, with all the dedicated folks working on it, is amazing as is. Everything else I see as a wonderful bonus.

 

And if you don't know what else to do after the cloven hands: maybe the tail could need some tender love & care? ^^

[DivineDefiance]

10 hours ago, Addywil said:

On the other hand, I don't know what else to make after the hands are done, so who knows.

If I remember correctly I do believe there is dialogue for something about horns preventing your character from wearing helmets, paul always answers saying we gotta wait for a future update, this could be something if you wanted to do that afterwards, although I'd have no idea what it'd even be that you could do about not wearing helmets other then cutting your characters horns... and they could grow back over time, but thats all I could think of regarding it.