Naked Defeat AE/SE

*Nessa* · May 4, 2022

23 minutes ago, Nymra said:

after escape and AFTER the crawl ends, the Movement speed is set to 100 again.
this can appear to be very fast in case other mods have altered the base speedmult earlier. this is at least the observation I had made with other mods.

But crawl speed itself should remain slow in fact.

I MIGHT be that a mod scans for the speedmult and resets it if it gets too low. Reason behind is, that sadly when more mods modify speedmult it can happen that the PC is unable to move.

So far, after changing the escape timer I'm not noticing anything like the super charged warp 9 crawl. (Maybe things were just getting confused earlier.)

I had a look at Dint999's hairs. None of them have the same name and editorID. I think I can safely alter them so they do, provided I'm careful to get the base hair anyway. (Dint has a lot of flowing hair that attaches to a base hair. Amazing results in game but definitely not compatible!)

Hair tokens are from Dirt and Blood and have no relation to ND. Sorry for the confusion! ? Next time I'll check before I post! ?

EDIT: Got it to do the warp crawl again! I sprint, THEN it goes into warp. Meaning.... I'm crawling slow as expected. I sprint. Then I go back to crawling again but now it's warp 9. I'll keep doing tests to see if that's the trigger or not. Could also be several other mods I can think of interfering too. (True Directional Movement, Relaxed Camera, OR SL Survival.) If it's one of those I'll try and narrow it down.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Nessa

*Nymra* · May 4, 2022

45 minutes ago, sickboy791 said:

should i have estrus installed for later update?

not necessary to this point.
I want to make a SLAL registration for Estrus, this would also work for sexlab in general then. I will write in the changelogs when tentacles get attention

*Nymra* · May 4, 2022

36 minutes ago, Nessa said:

So far, after changing the escape timer I'm not noticing anything like the super charged warp 9 crawl. (Maybe things were just getting confused earlier.)

I had a look at Dint999's hairs. None of them have the same name and editorID. I think I can safely alter them so they do, provided I'm careful to get the base hair anyway. (Dint has a lot of flowing hair that attaches to a base hair. Amazing results in game but definitely not compatible!)

just make sure you change the name to match the editorID not other way round. you can upload the ESP, I share it as a patch if you dont mind.
I think SE SKSE has a workaround for that but I figured its a bit more complicated for me to write and compile that stuff and I dont want to break anything

36 minutes ago, Nessa said:

Hair tokens are from Dirt and Blood and have no relation to ND. Sorry for the confusion! ? Next time I'll check before I post! ?

np. its often hard to get which mod is doing what.

36 minutes ago, Nessa said:

EDIT: Got it to do the warp crawl again! I sprint, THEN it goes into warp. Meaning.... I'm crawling slow as expected. I sprint. Then I go back to crawling again but now it's warp 9. I'll keep doing tests to see if that's the trigger or not. Could also be several other mods I can think of interfering too. (True Directional Movement, Relaxed Camera, OR SL Survival.) If it's one of those I'll try and narrow it down.

when you sprint for a period of time it should end the crawl (unlock player controls AND remove the crawl animations).

sickboy791 · May 4, 2022

37 minutes ago, Nymra said:

not necessary to this point.
I want to make a SLAL registration for Estrus, this would also work for sexlab in general then. I will write in the changelogs when tentacles get attention

a few day´s ago i tested your mod and everything worked very well, even with other script heavy mods

nice job ? looking forward for updates

TENTACLES?

Spoiler

estrus

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/12832?tab=files

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/67978?tab=posts

Edited May 4, 2022 by sickboy791

walok · May 5, 2022

Hi

I have a strange menu behavior with the new version. After enabling the mod saving and reloading the game the Hair change menu point disapeared

Chlodwig · May 5, 2022

I encountered that super fast crawling I was crawling away and when I crawled a while I started running... wanted to find out if the try to get the pc.

when I released the running button the pc went back to crawling animation but keept the running speed.

And also the time after escape on the knees seemed to be a bit long (Defeat happend near the tower where you fight the first dragon and I was able to crawl to whiterun and even at whiterun i had to wait ages before the control was compeltly back)

I will try your solution with setting escape time etc.

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

3 hours ago, walok said:

Hi

I have a strange menu behavior with the new version. After enabling the mod saving and reloading the game the Hair change menu point disapeared

ops, that snuck in somehow. found the problem and will be fixed in the first patch.

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

2 hours ago, Chlodwig said:

I encountered that super fast crawling I was crawling away and when I crawled a while I started running... wanted to find out if the try to get the pc.

when I released the running button the pc went back to crawling animation but keept the running speed.

And also the time after escape on the knees seemed to be a bit long (Defeat happend near the tower where you fight the first dragon and I was able to crawl to whiterun and even at whiterun i had to wait ages before the control was compeltly back)

I will try your solution with setting escape time etc.

do you use nemesis by any chance?
it might be that the FNIS functions to remove the crawl animation are a bit slower on SE or maybe even more problematic on Nemesis? not sure

I think the papyrus.log catches the FNIS animation change and when it happens, might be worth having a look to see how delayed it is.

		ShowScreenMessage("Crawl away now, cunt!")
		Game.DisablePlayerControls(false, true, false, false, true, true, true, true, 0)
		
			while (EscapeTime > 0.0) && !cfgqst.PlayerRef.IsWeaponDrawn() && !cfgqst.PlayerRef.IsSprinting() && !cfgqst.PlayerRef.IsInCombat()
	
				Debug.SetGodmode(true)
				int timeleft = EscapeTime as int
				
				if (timeleft == 2) || (timeleft == 6) || (timeleft == 10) || (timeleft == 16) || (timeleft == 22)	;30 max value
				ShowScreenMessage("You have " +timeleft+ " seconds left.")
				endif
				
				Utility.Wait(2.0)
				
				EscapeTime -= 2.0
				if Utility.RandomInt(1,4) == 1
				cfgqst.PlaySound()
				endif
			endwhile
			
		cfgqst.Crawl(cfgqst.PlayerRef, false)	;#crawl END
		cfgqst.Immobilize(false)
		cfgqst.DefeatQuestRunning = false	
		Debug.SetGodmode(false)
		AllegianceQuest.SetStage(1000)

st0ne · May 5, 2022

Hello, I am a Bathing in Skyrim user. After the 4.70 update I am still getting "invisible head" and "empty bodies" equipped while my PC bathing,

with "ShowDebugMessages" turned off. (At least now I know from the changelog this mod causing it.)

Since I quite like both mods, can I assist sorting this out somehow?

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

16 minutes ago, st0ne said:

Hello, I am a Bathing in Skyrim user. After the 4.70 update I am still getting "invisible head" and "empty bodies" equipped while my PC bathing,

with "ShowDebugMessages" turned off. (At least now I know from the changelog this mod causing it.)

Since I quite like both mods, can I assist sorting this out somehow?

my bad, I modified the wrong script (only modified the old funciton I used, not the new one)

will be fixed in 4.71 patch

*Nessa* · May 5, 2022

6 hours ago, Nymra said:

do you use nemesis by any chance?

I use Nemesis as well. Didn't think of that!

Also FNIS technically. ? We're forced to at the moment as Nemesis won't handle any anims outside of player races.

*Nessa* · May 5, 2022

Sooo... I've been thinking my tests are taking an inordinate amount of time. So I decided to pull out a stopwatch.

Time to find a spot: set to ~~3 seconds~~ actually it was 6 seconds... in MCM.

Actual real time before player controls locked: 4:30! ?

Ouch. Script lag? ? ?

This is definitely taking a lot longer than previous versions before the slider!!

Setting the escape timer to 0 however: no issues with crawling etc.

Escape timer at 2 seconds: player crawls for at least a minute, then there's this hybrid partial crawl partial run period... (meaning if I stop, player is in crawl position), then eventually all player controls released.

I'll keep doing more tests.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nessa

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

9 minutes ago, Nessa said:

Sooo... I've been thinking my tests are taking an inordinate amount of time. So I decided to pull out a stopwatch.

Time to find a spot: set to 3 seconds in MCM.

Actual real time before player controls locked: 4:30! ?

Ouch. Script lag? ? ?

This is definitely taking a lot longer than previous versions before the slider!!

Setting the escape timer to 0 however: no issues with crawling etc.

Escape timer at 2 seconds: player crawls for at least a minute, then there's this hybrid partial crawl partial run period... (meaning if I stop, player is in crawl position), then eventually all player controls released.

I'll keep doing more tests.

did you check the papyrus log for stackdumps?

I mean this is really wild, since I m using TONS of "Utility.Wait" in the script and this seems NOT to take minutes for you any time. hmm

Would really like to see a papyrus log, I use some tracers but I can add more if need be.
I noticed that the crawling takes longer for me too, but only slighly longer than expected AND I had stackdumps from conditional expressions (sigh...)

*Nessa* · May 5, 2022

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

did you check the papyrus log for stackdumps?

I mean this is really wild, since I m using TONS of "Utility.Wait" in the script and this seems NOT to take minutes for you any time. hmm

Would really like to see a papyrus log, I use some tracers but I can add more if need be.
I noticed that the crawling takes longer for me too, but only slighly longer than expected AND I had stackdumps from conditional expressions (sigh...)

Just did a test with one troll. ?

First time: Everything reasonably fast. Weird test though as I was stuck in a rock and couldn't move. So... did another.

Second time: Took about 1:30 for my "3 seconds to find a spot". ?

There was a stack dump in the log. (At line 19,111 ?) I'll attach it. Looks like approximately where that 1:30 minute "3 seconds" was but I'm not 100% sure.

Papyrus.0.log.7z

Since that log was ridiculously huge and included several reloads I did another test. Just one defeat and reload. It has a stack dump too!

This test had the character stuck again (like #1 above). In both stuck cases, the player had fallen to a lower level of the cave. When the crawl anims were started the player can only jump but not actually move.

Anyway, the 3 seconds this time wasn't as long at about 1 minute. Scenario played out. Player gets released. There is a brief (maybe 3 second) period where the player was locked in the crawl anim, then everything frees up and all player controls are back. (Inventory, combat, etc.)

Second log here which... is still rather lengthy.

Papyrus.0.log-test2.7z

EDIT: I should note, this stuck behavior I've never encountered before this cave. Could be just a weird thing.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nessa

schweinehund · May 5, 2022

I'll provide you with another log for the problem.

Papyrus.0.log

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

15 minutes ago, schweinehund said:

I'll provide you with another log for the problem.

Papyrus.0.log 8.55 MB · 0 downloads

which problem.

crawling?

you have a massive stackdump in the script that is causing any possible delays.

I sometimes can find the responsible mod by looking to active scripts in SaveCleaner (fallrimtools / resaver)

At least for me the crawl never caused a stackdump. but I can try to strip the function further down... there seems to be no special difference from that to other waiting loops in naked defeat.. hmm

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nymra

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

47 minutes ago, Nessa said:

Just did a test with one troll. ?

First time: Everything reasonably fast. Weird test though as I was stuck in a rock and couldn't move. So... did another.

Second time: Took about 1:30 for my "3 seconds to find a spot". ?

There was a stack dump in the log. (At line 19,111 ?) I'll attach it. Looks like approximately where that 1:30 minute "3 seconds" was but I'm not 100% sure.

Papyrus.0.log.7z 38.75 kB · 0 downloads

Since that log was ridiculously huge and included several reloads I did another test. Just one defeat and reload. It has a stack dump too!

This test had the character stuck again (like #1 above). In both stuck cases, the player had fallen to a lower level of the cave. When the crawl anims were started the player can only jump but not actually move.

Anyway, the 3 seconds this time wasn't as long at about 1 minute. Scenario played out. Player gets released. There is a brief (maybe 3 second) period where the player was locked in the crawl anim, then everything frees up and all player controls are back. (Inventory, combat, etc.)

Second log here which... is still rather lengthy.

Papyrus.0.log-test2.7z 23.89 kB · 0 downloads

EDIT: I should note, this stuck behavior I've never encountered before this cave. Could be just a weird thing.

we need to debug the stackdumps first.

do you have version 1.3.6 of conditional expressions or an earlier one?

The mod caused massive stackdumps for me and the logs says new version should fix that.

So either uninstall Conditional Expressions for another testrun or Update to a new version first (also clean the save, I had like 30 busy active script threads from conditional expressions eating 3-4 frames each in my save when I realised something was off.

*Nessa* · May 5, 2022

34 minutes ago, Nymra said:

do you have version 1.3.6 of conditional expressions or an earlier one?

Yep, I'm on 1.20. I'll update and do a new round of testing!

EDIT: Wait, you mean 1.21? This mod? Updating it regardless.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nessa

*Nymra* · May 5, 2022

26 minutes ago, Nessa said:

Yep, I'm on 1.20. I'll update and do a new round of testing!

EDIT: Wait, you mean 1.21? This mod? Updating it regardless.

the hell you doing on nexus!!!

*Nessa* · May 6, 2022

Yeah! The hell was I doing on the NEXUS for! ???

OK, updated to 1.3.6 with a brand new game.......

Did a thorough test with 1 companion.

Settings:

Time to Find a Spot: 6 seconds.
Escape Timer: 6 seconds.

Upon surrender:

Crawl animation starts, is slow as expected.
Message says I have 3 seconds left.... after it's been 30 seconds!
Player movement stops after an addition 85 seconds. For a total of 115 seconds!
Player and companion get borked. Then tied up.
Struggling gets player punished, captives want more.
Trolls warp in!
Player gets borked... TROLLS actually bork companion! (They worked! )
Player escapes. Enemies immediately hostile.
Crawl is slow for first 30 seconds.
After 30 seconds crawl is warp speed. (Could this be when the "6 seconds" is up?)
Player controls finally returned (meaning getting up, inventory, etc) after an additional.... 4:30!!!! ?

I checked the log, and there is still a crash dump. ?

Papyrus.0.log-new_test.7z

Prior to this I did a test alone, but without logging on. (WHOOPS!)

Everything seemed much shorter and player control was returned a lot faster than 4 minutes! (More like 30 seconds.)

Companions may be confusing things, I'll do a few thorough tests alone tomorrow. Err today. Later today. Whatever. ?

Edited May 6, 2022 by Nessa

*Nymra* · May 6, 2022

31 minutes ago, Nessa said:

Yeah! The hell was I doing on the NEXUS for! ???

OK, updated to 1.3.6 with a brand new game.......

Did a thorough test with 1 companion.

Settings:

Time to Find a Spot: 6 seconds.

Escape Timer: 6 seconds.

Upon surrender:

Crawl animation starts, is slow as expected.

Message says I have 3 seconds left.... after it's been 30 seconds!

Player movement stops after an addition 85 seconds. For a total of 115 seconds!

Player and companion get borked. Then tied up.

Struggling gets player punished, captives want more.

Trolls warp in!

Player gets borked... TROLLS actually bork companion! (They worked! )

Player escapes. Enemies immediately hostile.

Crawl is slow for first 30 seconds.

After 30 seconds crawl is warp speed. (Could this be when the "6 seconds" is up?)

Player controls finally returned (meaning getting up, inventory, etc) after an additional.... 4:30!!!! ?

I checked the log, and there is still a crash dump. ?

Papyrus.0.log-new_test.7z 35.3 kB · 0 downloads

Prior to this I did a test alone, but without logging on. (WHOOPS!)

Everything seemed much shorter and player control was returned a lot faster than 4 minutes! (More like 30 seconds.)

Companions may be confusing things, I'll do a few thorough tests alone tomorrow. Err today. Later today. Whatever. ?

I dont know, but there is ALOT going on in that log.

Thing is: there is only so much that can cause all this and the log is spammed with messages and stacks from numerous mods.

What I would look for first:

1. MFG console
half the messages seem to be from MFG console.

Is that mod different on SE?

Do you have it installed and if so which version?
Are you even on SE or on AE?
What I know I dont get these Errors.

Quote

[05/06/2022 - 03:23:52AM] Error: Static function ResetOverrides not found on object mfgconsole. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
<unknown self>.MfgConsoleFunc.ResetPhonemeModifier() - "MfgConsoleFunc.psc" Line ?

2. Whatever Frost_System is and what mod it comes from

there are lots of messages from these types too, I d say roughly the other half.

Quote

[05/06/2022 - 03:23:56AM] Error: Property VampireStatus not found on playervampirequestscript. Aborting call and returning None
stack:
   <unknown self>.camputil.IsPlayerUndead() - "CampUtil.psc" Line ?
   [_Frost_System_PlayerState (66092F8B)]._frost_playerstatesystem.RefreshVampireState() - "_Frost_PlayerStateSystem.psc" Line ?
   [_Frost_System_PlayerState (66092F8B)]._frost_playerstatesystem.Update() - "_Frost_PlayerStateSystem.psc" Line ?
   [_Frost_System_PlayerState (66092F8B)]._frost_playerstatesystem.OnUpdate() - "_Frost_BaseSystem.psc" Line ?

3. .dlc1_npcmentalmodelscript

is a smaller contributor...

Either remove the mods in question, fix them to no longer see these errors in the logs and maybe we can get closer to the problem.

Thing is, I really have NO idea what could cause this except Papyrus Overload.
and Naked Defeat at that point does not have that many papyrus stuff active.

Its no use bug hunting when there is no clean test environment.
50% of the problems I had with Naked Defeat I could trace back to other mods, stack dumps, changed functions, incompatibilities and other odd shit nobody could even think off.

I mean you can still play Naked Defeat with the Crawl timer off, but honestly other mods should suffer and missebehave from these problems too.

EDIT: also New Game is overrated. Like totally. Fixing Load Order on a running game is the true mastery
I was surprised what is possible and could trace back most problems to scripts, meshes or texture problems.
I m happily abusing a 15 month old savegame that saw EVERY crime that can be committed by skyrim modding standards

What I mean is: new game usually fixes only minor problems and not stuff like this

Edited May 6, 2022 by Nymra

*Nessa* · May 6, 2022

Oh yes, on SE. Not touching AE for a good long while still. ?

MFG I believe is slightly different but I don't have the details. Looking over the log, the vast majority seem to be from conditional expressions.
I double checked and I did get the SE version. ? Also double checked and I have the right MFG_Fix as well as Address Library.
Frost is ... well... Frostfall. ? That said I've been looking for a reason to get rid of it for awhile now anyway. ?
dlc1_npcmentalmodelscript is vanilla. That's from Dawnguard. I don't have anything overwriting that either. Vanilla can bork on its own though. ?

So for pure laugh value, I decided to toss Frostfall and Conditional Expressions on the same save and see what happens.

Initial "Find a spot"... took about 8 seconds! Improvement! :cool: Rest of the scenario played out as expected until escape. Enemies still instantly hostile. Crawling was slow for about 8 seconds. Then it switched to warp crawl again for at least a minute. (Gave up timing it. EPC works to return control.)

Checked the log, no stack dump this time! Also about half the size. More improvement. ? I am seeing some FNIS and Nemesis errors in there, I didn't run FNIS/Nemesis again so that might clear up some of that. I'll do a little more testing ~~tomorrow~~ later today after redoing FNIS/Nemesis.

EDIT: Couldn't help it. Did another test sans Frostfall but with Conditional Expressions. Find a Spot time back to a minute or so, and stack dumps returned. Then I put Frostfall back in but no Conditional Expressions. Scenario played out exactly like the first test. Everything seemed to work, but after about 8 seconds of slow crawling, warp speed again. Also no stack dump. The culprit wierdly seems to be Conditional Expressions! Later I'm going to triple check the requirements on that and make sure I've got everything for sure!

Edited May 6, 2022 by Nessa

*Nymra* · May 6, 2022

8 hours ago, Nessa said:

Oh yes, on SE. Not touching AE for a good long while still. ?

MFG I believe is slightly different but I don't have the details. Looking over the log, the vast majority seem to be from conditional expressions.
I double checked and I did get the SE version. ? Also double checked and I have the right MFG_Fix as well as Address Library.

Frost is ... well... Frostfall. ? That said I've been looking for a reason to get rid of it for awhile now anyway. ?

dlc1_npcmentalmodelscript is vanilla. That's from Dawnguard. I don't have anything overwriting that either. Vanilla can bork on its own though. ?

So for pure laugh value, I decided to toss Frostfall and Conditional Expressions on the same save and see what happens.

Initial "Find a spot"... took about 8 seconds! Improvement! Rest of the scenario played out as expected until escape. Enemies still instantly hostile. Crawling was slow for about 8 seconds. Then it switched to warp crawl again for at least a minute. (Gave up timing it. EPC works to return control.)

Checked the log, no stack dump this time! Also about half the size. More improvement. ? I am seeing some FNIS and Nemesis errors in there, I didn't run FNIS/Nemesis again so that might clear up some of that. I'll do a little more testing ~~tomorrow~~ later today after redoing FNIS/Nemesis.

EDIT: Couldn't help it. Did another test sans Frostfall but with Conditional Expressions. Find a Spot time back to a minute or so, and stack dumps returned. Then I put Frostfall back in but no Conditional Expressions. Scenario played out exactly like the first test. Everything seemed to work, but after about 8 seconds of slow crawling, warp speed again. Also no stack dump. The culprit wierdly seems to be Conditional Expressions! Later I'm going to triple check the requirements on that and make sure I've got everything for sure!

you could make a save when it is "worst" and open the save in SaveCleaner and check the "Active Scripts" tab to see what is actually going on there. Sometimes more telling than the log, because some mods might not print to the log.

Zeusie · May 6, 2022

does this work if i want the player character to be the dominant one like be the one who does the defeating lol

*Nymra* · May 6, 2022

20 minutes ago, Zeusie said:

does this work if i want the player character to be the dominant one like be the one who does the defeating lol

that is not within the scope of this mod

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