Diary Of Mine for Paradise Halls [WIP]

[DocClox]

OK, turns out I'm wrong. The onmly modevent used in SLA is one to signal the end of the global update loop. Of course, the last time I looked at SLA it still used a cloak spell to find targets so I shouldn't be surprised that it's changed a bit.

 

Probably then, best approach is to disable SexLab orgasms altogether. I'll have a bit think.

[Nonseen]

7 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

As for your slaves not falling in love, as I seem to record it was the start of this conversation, we need to debug that. Could you check a few things first:

 - What mood are the slaves (the ones not falling in love) ? Ask them what's their feelings and they should list it first: I am afraid, sad, ...

 - What mood do they move to if you punish them? Sometimes the shock/broken/inlove cascade this not start if you don't hit them with the whip. We might want to change  that and offer another option as requested by InsanityFactor.

 - How many times have the slaves been shocked and do you manage to shock them?

 

What version effected this request? 

 

DOM 2.0.4 is effected? if yes i have some samples, i think few image speak more than hundred of words:

Spoiler

after punihsment, 1-3 sec flame spell 

 

sample no 2

after punishment 2-4 leash of whip

 

This slaves has get "some" traning and none has been in love.

if need more statistics i have 2 or 3 more slaves that not in love at the moment. this slaves get realy strong traning too.

 

P.S.:

You manage update DOM so fast i no chance to finish proper testing before new version come out  

I thinking how i can speed up my test process to keep up with mod DOM realises.

[donttouchmethere]

5 minutes ago, Nonseen said:

I thinking how i can speed up my test process to keep up with mod DOM realises.

Less love and more whip! ?

[Nonseen]

2 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Less love and more whip! ?

Hmm maybe working but the love part too need to be tested properly...

[donttouchmethere]

Just now, Nonseen said:

Hmm maybe working but the love part too need to be tested properly...

Of course, of course! ?

I don't want to be guilty of broken hearts? or accidentally leaving a cage door open⛓️  ?

[Nonseen]

1 hour ago, donttouchmethere said:

1 hour ago, Nonseen said:

Hmm maybe working but the love part too need to be tested properly...

Of course, of course! ?

I don't want to be guilty of broken hearts? or accidentally leaving a cage door open⛓️  ?

 

i see your point

now i udnerstand why some use duble cage dors... so if one left oppen by accident  one can hope at least one door remain closed

 

By the way recent quick testing things lead discovery of some strange bug like things. i not sure maybe future.

Using DOM 2.0.8 using with PAHE 8.0.4.

A slave with 100 respect non stop act not respectfully. its some what understandible becuse she realy realy rebelius. and non stop in rebellion state.

( i realy need a cage mobile cage to be correct!  or soemthing that cool down that one mind, whiping near death 3 times in a row work for ... 2 minute at best.)

 

the strange thing is this slave ordered dont talk and she not talking! but i get message she is not respectful...

hmm maybe looking me wrong, not respectful way? or using some sort of hand signal?

 

i wish put here as side note:

DOM 2.0.8 feels fresh fool of goood futures!!!!

[donttouchmethere]

2 hours ago, Nonseen said:

DOM 2.0.8 feels fresh fool of goood futures!!!!

?

What is your mother language and what are you using to translate?

Your comment translates in German to: "DOM 2.0.8 fühlt sich frisch dumm von gut futures!!!! "

 

Which reminds me of: "Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale"

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by donttouchmethere

[CliftonJD]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:33 PM, SleinJinn said:

This save is only a couple of weeks old—I wanted to do one long playthrough with the new releases of PAHE and DOM to really dig deep into them. 

On 11/1/2021 at 11:02 PM, InsanityFactor said:

Yeah so just that other weird stuff you were describing sounds script related. Like the extra iron cuffs appearing in your inventory and all the weirdness going on when enslavement happens (clones etc.) I say that because the cuffs for example are supposed to be given to you if you use them to tie up a slave; you get the cuffs back. It sounds like the script just gives them to you even when you use ropes because it's getting confused, hence why you have so many iron cuffs.

 

Also enslavement is relatively complicated under the hood, so if there's a lot of script lag it will forget to do some things its supposed to. (Kill original actor, clone new actor, enslave the clone.) Any one or all of those steps can fail with script lag, that's why you are sometimes getting an extra clone, or none at all. 

 

So yeah I have a feeling it's script related but I can't say 100%, usually what you look for to see if it's script stuff if just weird things like that happening, failures in the steps of complicated processes, that sort of thing. But if your load order is pretty light it could be something else or just the save getting too fat from being high level and stuff. Hard to say  

additional slave left in the cloning cell usually happens if you chose to enslave twice before completion or if its a scripted quest npc. confusion between rope dialogs and iron cuffs being returned comes from the added dialogs by hsh on pahe slaves to tie them up. the hsh dialog uses rope dialogs as a tie option, but cost nothing and equip iron cuffs to the slave like a cheat

On 11/2/2021 at 8:32 AM, TrollAutokill said:

 

lol, we need to get them a psychologist or a straitjacket

edit redacted after reading your update

original reply was of an old post before you updated

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by CliftonJD

[CliftonJD]

On 11/4/2021 at 3:44 PM, SleinJinn said:

SexLab for lesbian players is that cunnilingus animations and such almost always seem to place my PC in the giver role.*  I don't know if maybe I could address this by adjusting my settings somehow or what, but I definitely have a number of issues with this stuff.  

 

*This would be a great area where PAHE could be improved, actually.  In the "You, strip!  I'm going to have some fun with you" dialogue tree (which I really think should be reworded to be more clearly differentiated from the rape options), there could be two separate dialogue choices to control which actor is in which sexual role.  Bonus points if the wording of those dialogue options could be determined by the genders of the participants.  (e.g., "Come here my pet, your mistress wants to taste you.")

i get the same problems with the lesbian animations, but i'm pretty sure the player is already set to the dominant role in pahe when ever possible. the exception to that rule i think i had to change it for the men when sexlab confuses dominance and gender for some animations so when a female player is with a male slave i had to let him take the lead in some situations to prevent the player shoving a strap-on into his cock

On 11/4/2021 at 5:49 PM, SleinJinn said:

Combine the slave ring idea with the PAHE Survival idea, and if you want to release a slave who loves you and has received her ring, you have to take her ring and see her start sobbing uncontrollably before releasing her, and then, once she composes herself, she either waits around your home or follows you at a distance until she's too hungry to go without food any longer, and then she slinks off with some percent chance of dying of hunger before she finds food and starts her independent life.  If the latter happens, she disappears from your game, but if the former, you might stumble across her body.  Geeze, the feels!  I'm a little teary just imagining it clearly enough to write this!

to me that should be grounds for a slave to be eligible follower, bonus to marriage eligible.

something like the thug system could prolly manage lovers or ring bearers, prolly somewhat different from thugs tho cuz thugs are like random brutes while this girl wears your ring

On 11/4/2021 at 6:50 PM, SleinJinn said:

if you take a PAHE slave into the Sex Slaves zone, they'll probably break. 

lol, we had to make special patches over sex slave scripts to stop them from breaking pahe slaves. patch is on the download page, but every update to sexslaves i gotta update that script fix to his new version to stay compatible

On 11/4/2021 at 8:09 PM, SleinJinn said:

that slave can get permalocked in the "busy" state.  I had to resort all the way to "recycleactor" to get her un-stuck—resetai, moving her, etc. weren't enough to fix it.  

debug settings on the slave should have a reclone feature made for those circumstances

On 11/4/2021 at 8:27 PM, InsanityFactor said:

And yes they are still recorded as rape sometimes but as far as I can tell at this point it's just words on the screen and doesn't actually have any real effect on anything, so for now sex and rape are essentially of the same consequence (I think) Don't worry about it too much.

to me i'd have to agree that would be confusing after you've already passed the consensual dialogues and get consensual sex, that the screen messages would call it rape....

EDIT:

unless devious devices is filtering that scene and dd will often trigger it as a rape scene when devices are worn in the scene

On 11/4/2021 at 8:55 PM, SleinJinn said:

This has been bugging me for a while since I added a bunch of better lesbian animations with SLAL, and I've taken this opportunity to finally get to the bottom of it.  A significant part of what's going on seems to be Devious Devices blocking certain animations.  I don't know why a buttplug should interfere with cunnilingus, but apparently it does in Tamriel.  Is there any way to get SexLab to add them to stripping?  When I tick "Show Full Inventory" on the strip tab in the MCM, the overwhelming majority of them don't show up.  I can obviously strip them manually every time but it's rather tedious.  I'd think there ought to be some kind of workaround there, even if I have to do it with Notepad.

devious devices are designed with keywords to prevent strip, that's why they don't strip and won't show on a list to be stripped by sl. you would need a mod to remove the sl nostrip keyword from the device to bypass it.....tho i do agree a buttplug should not interfere with cunni. they used to allow you to disable the filter, was much better

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by CliftonJD

[CliftonJD]

15 hours ago, DocClox said:

Doable, can't quite remember how, but I think there's a sexlab API call to handle the bookkeeping.

 

I'll have a look.

devious plugs do it all the time

13 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

The thing is that I have 16 slaves in those cages I've shown and the left side of my screen is now constantly full of 'was not respectful' in every color of the rainbow, I'm also noticing that there are indeed subtitles for them and the slaves are in fact saying things disrespectful, but this wasn't the case in 2.0.1. They would be silent unless I directly talked to them, now they just constantly spew out pejoratives, even when I'm on the other side of the house. Any ideas on what's going on?

 

UPDATE: Turning off 'feelings in topics' did turn off the random topics but the 'was not respectful' things keep popping up even without them. If I understand what's going on here maybe you can make it so when 'was_not_respectful' is a punishment reason it can no longer be triggered again until it's been punished? It's also possible I just have a bug from updating so idk...

Edited 12 hours ago by InsanityFactor

the behavior you describe says something has turned on the idle comments of the original mod that were blocked by the do nothing packages....they used to be so chatty i couldn't stand it. lol first thing i'd do is gag them

9 hours ago, Nonseen said:

( i realy need a cage mobile cage to be correct!

hsh offers a mobile cage cart for sale behind the restless hunter

Edited November 6, 2021 by CliftonJD

[CliftonJD]

16 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

(the goal is to avoid orgasm to start unless DoM decides to)

actually on this there has to be a way to do it cuz that's basically the concept behind the "devious devices chastity quest". the chastity is meant to prevent orgasm thru other means while the plugs that can be worn with it are instruments of controlled arousal varying in strength to the plug....if dd can do all that, i'm sure there has to be a way for dom

[TrollAutokill]

11 hours ago, Nonseen said:

( i realy need a cage mobile cage to be correct!  or soemthing that cool down that one mind, whiping near death 3 times in a row work for ... 2 minute at best.)

 

There is a PAH cart add on by Musje.

 

PAH slave cart

 

As for the not_respectful spam it is a problem on DoM side. It happens when slaves say bad things to the player or make aggressive gesture. I will make sure to reduce the spam with only one warning until punished for. And also set those as “small reasons” so they don’t overwrite others.

Edited November 6, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[Antiope_Apollonia]

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

i get the same problems with the lesbian animations, but i'm pretty sure the player is already set to the dominant role in pahe when ever possible. the exception to that rule i think i had to change it for the men when sexlab confuses dominance and gender for some animations so when a female player is with a male slave i had to let him take the lead in some situations to prevent the player shoving a strap-on into his cock

I can't speak to anything to do with male actors, but I think there are multiple ways to construe "dominance" in the context of these animations.  When it comes to FF cunnilingus, the character who is eating the other out is physically more in control of the situation, and it seems like maybe SexLab has judged that to be the "dominant role" on that basis, which probably makes sense in the context of more straightforward rape mods and such.  But sexually, that means that everything always plays out as being focused on the sub's pleasure, which doesn't really make as much sense in the context of long-term slavery where the slaves are there to serve their mistress's (sexual) needs.  I think, ultimately, the best option would be to have separate dialogue choices for muncher and munchee, so to speak.

 

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

to me that should be grounds for a slave to be eligible follower, bonus to marriage eligible.

something like the thug system could prolly manage lovers or ring bearers, prolly somewhat different from thugs tho cuz thugs are like random brutes while this girl wears your ring

I don't think you'd need any of that, honestly.  The whole point of such a ring is that it's a visual display of the slave's willing submission—of her acceptance of her life as a slave.  So using that to place her in a role that is no longer submissive would kind of defeat the point.  It could be worth having an MCM toggle for the ring ceremony to add the slave to the player spouse faction, I suppose, for the sake of mods that have sex events tied to sleeping with a spouse, but I wouldn't think that'd be a high priority.  You certainly wouldn't want to be standing before Dinya Balu with your obedient pet, at any rate.

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on the original idea(s) that preceded what you quoted, by the way (I may try to write up more detailed versions of these ideas somewhere this weekend, time permitting):

Spoiler

  

On 11/4/2021 at 9:44 PM, SleinJinn said:

This gives me two ideas that I think would be really cool, but I don't know what anyone else would think about them.  

1) It seems like someone much cleverer than I am could do something really awesome with a "PAHE Survival" extension, where you have to feed your slaves or they'll starve.  (Or @CliftonJD could build such a thing into a future version of core PAHE, although you wouldn't want it to be mandatory, and I imagine his/her hands are plenty full already).  If you let them go hungry, before they starve, it could cause them to misbehave or even rebel, but perhaps perfectly well-trained slaves actually would just starve before disobeying their mistress.  I suppose HSH Taskmasters / DoM Thugs would be responsible for feeding slaves under their care, but the player would have to provide them with bulk food to do so; bonus points if you have a dialogue option with the taskmaster/thug to the effect of, "You don't have to feed the other slaves today—I'll do it while I'm here."  When you feed slaves yourself, you could have some options for how to do so, e.g., eating out of a dog bowl for humiliation training or eating out of mistress's hand for a reward (mega bonus points for including custom animations for these).  It's probably worth pointing out that this might require tweaking the default inventory of food vendors to carry higher quantities of staple foods.  You could further have optional Frostfall integration for warmth, but I wouldn't be interested in that, personally.  This extension would address a significant gap in B&D culture as currently represented in these mods, as a big part of the dom's role in dom/sub relationships is taking responsibility for making sure the sub's basic needs are all met.  

 

2) A fun one-off gift that could be integrated into an alternative falling in love path could be a slave ring.  I have it on my to-do list to get such a ring into the game—I'm pretty sure creating such a mod is within even my modest ability, I just need to track down the right model (suggestions/tips welcome).  (I've been too busy IRL to do anything more demanding than experimenting with PAHE/DoM/HSH recently.)  If I do, it'd be completely open-use other than any limitations imposed by the creator of whatever textures it uses, so if you wanted to roll it into your mod, I certainly wouldn't stand in your way.  The way I could envisage this going would be that, once the slave reaches 100 training in every skill (possible exception to combat, but I personally would be quite okay with combat being included—maybe an exclusion for combat training could even be toggled in the MCM), you can choose to have a little mini-ceremony where the slave kneels before her mistress, and you present her with her slave ring (bonus points for a custom animation to place the ring on her finger) and tell her that she's a good girl and that she should wear it with pride as an ever-present reminder that mistress loves her pets.  Bonus points if, if incompletely trained slaves are in the vicinity, you further address them to say that they should look forward to when they can earn their rings if they work hard and behave; more bonus points if that address has a small training effect.  Perhaps you automatically play a sex scene at the conclusion (further bonus if you could neatly loop a cunnilingus animation until she cums), although this could also be left to be done manually.  Yet more bonus points if taking the ring away later is very upsetting for the slave and if the options to sell or release the slave are disabled while she's wearing it.  This seems like it might be harder to implement, but letting the ring (or, maybe more feasibly, the ceremony rather than the ring itself?) flag the slave as essential would be great along the same lines, too.  Whatever the details of what's actually possible, something like this would be a perfect prerequisite for the non-traumatic path to falling in love (more on which below).

 

Imagine deciding to sell a slave who has received her ring and loves her mistress.  You'd have to take the ring away and see her sob uncontrollably before you can talk to the Fellglow guy or Pardo or whomever; maybe she'd even be crying too much to be able to follow you, so you'd have to do it in front of them or use harsh punishment against her for the first time in ages.  The RP/immersion would be off the charts.  I don't know if I could do it!

 

 

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

debug settings on the slave should have a reclone feature made for those circumstances

Aye, but unless it's been fixed in a recent update, that resets the slave's personality and mood from DoM.  Console recyceleactor doesn't (although you will lose their inventory).  

 

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

to me i'd have to agree that would be confusing after you've already passed the consensual dialogues and get consensual sex, that the screen messages would call it rape....

EDIT:

unless devious devices is filtering that scene and dd will often trigger it as a rape scene when devices are worn in the scene

Yeah, this really frustrates me.  Prior to this discussion, I've always used the "You, strip! ..." dialogue tree that comes from HSH, because it never triggers rape.  Since rapes go on the slave's "permanent record" with DoM, it really bugs me.  

 

I don't think DD has anything to do with my experience here, but it's possible I'm missing something.  I'm working on my load order at the minute, so I can't easily jump back into the save I had been using for testing, but none of the slaves I was testing with were wearing anything other than collars and cuffs.  I would say that, even in heavy bondage, it should still be possible to give or refuse consent, though.  

 

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

devious devices are designed with keywords to prevent strip, that's why they don't strip and won't show on a list to be stripped by sl. you would need a mod to remove the sl nostrip keyword from the device to bypass it.....tho i do agree a buttplug should not interfere with cunni. they used to allow you to disable the filter, was much better

Seems like maybe I should experiment with Deviously Non-Devious Devices a bit.  

Edited November 6, 2021 by SleinJinn

[InsanityFactor]

17 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

the behavior you describe says something has turned on the idle comments of the original mod that were blocked by the do nothing packages....they used to be so chatty i couldn't stand it. lol first thing i'd do is gag them

 

14 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

As for the not_respectful spam it is a problem on DoM side. It happens when slaves say bad things to the player or make aggressive gesture. I will make sure to reduce the spam with only one warning until punished for. And also set those as “small reasons” so they don’t overwrite others.

Yeah so the slaves in question are always gagged with DD ballgags, which brings me to another question: any possibility of restricting the 'random topics' feature with zaz and dd gags? Hopefully it's as easy as a keyword lookup type thing... Just so that gagged slaves can't comment on their situation anymore.

 

I have all these slaves blindfolded, gagged, and suspension rigged in little cages and I keep hearing them say how they'll spit on my grave and other such nonsense.

 

Also the aggressive gestures thing works fine, so I think a fix like you just described should stop the spam. 

 

One other question I've been meaning to ask, how many animations is the 'body inspection' feature supposed to have right now? I've only ever seen two, the light boob touch and the crotch check, are there supposed to be more like the 'check value' thing? If so, what are the humiliation ranges for each one so I can check?

 

EDIT: Forgot one more thing, do you think you could make a blushing toggle for male slaves like you have for crying and mascara? The blushing just looks so strange on males...

Edited November 6, 2021 by InsanityFactor

[InsanityFactor]

17 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

i get the same problems with the lesbian animations, but i'm pretty sure the player is already set to the dominant role in pahe when ever possible. the exception to that rule i think i had to change it for the men when sexlab confuses dominance and gender for some animations so when a female player is with a male slave i had to let him take the lead in some situations to prevent the player shoving a strap-on into his cock

So I'm noticing that there are actually a good handful of people on here using DoM with female PC mistresses. I'm really curious what everyone's workarounds are for making that work, I can never do it for long because things don't work the right way with animations or dialogues or whatever. I'd like to know what mods, tools, settings, SLAL packs (especially), etc. you guys use to make it happen if it's not too much trouble. Also hopefully we can all put our heads together to figure out a reliable way to have everything work together.

Edited November 6, 2021 by InsanityFactor

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

Yeah so the slaves in question are always gagged with DD ballgags, which brings me to another question: any possibility of restricting the 'random topics' feature with zaz and dd gags? Hopefully it's as easy as a keyword lookup type thing... Just so that gagged slaves can't comment on their situation anymore.

I haven't tried 2.0.8 yet, but I almost have my new modlist set up to start playing with it—hopefully by the time I go to bed, although it's already pretty late... But is this a new issue for you?  I haven't had this problem with 2.0.1; I don't think GagSFX would be working with PAHE slaves, but I just thought I'd mention it as the only reason I can think of for why someone else might be experiencing a problem I'm not, since I figure I'm more likely than most to have a problem that exists between the chair and keyboard.  ?

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

So I'm noticing that there are actually a good handful of people on here using DoM with female PC mistresses. I'm really curious what everyone's workarounds are for making that work, I can never do it for long because things don't work the right way with animations or dialogues or whatever. I'd like to know what mods, tools, settings, SLAL packs (especially), etc. you guys use to make it happen if it's not too much trouble. Also hopefully we can all put our heads together to figure out a reliable way to have everything work together.

Well, I would say it's still a work in progress for me.  There's some amount of just tolerating things not being perfect and letting my imagination correct little things like slaves sometimes calling my PC master instead of mistress.  I can try to compile a list of dialogue lines that break character for lesbian players if it would be helpful; it wouldn't be a huge list.  If you were motivated enough, you could probably manually edit these mods yourself as a user using the same technique for changing the name in Submissive Lola.

 

I'm still looking to improve my custom animation loadout, but right now, I have the SLAL spanking mini-pack that's on the Devious Followers page (you don't need the mod to use the animation pack), the a few lesbian and solo female animations from the human pack by Leito, and the full set of lesbian animations from Billyy.  The Billyy animations are absolutely perfect in design, but I've had some issues with their implementation that I haven't had a chance to troubleshoot yet (e.g., see photo below), so I don't know if the problem is on my end or the animator's.  This is enough to give me a decent range of animations, and mostly, they work pretty well as long as I can keep Devious Devices from breaking them—as mentioned in an earlier post, I think I need to mess around with Deviously Non-Devious Devices to try to make this less of a headache in my game.  The biggest animation issue I have in the context of PAHE/HSH/DoM is the issue discussed in my previous post with how these mods and SexLab define and select the actors' roles in Lesbian animations.  

 

On the whole, I can definitely feel that I'm playing a female in a world built for males from time to time, but it isn't hugely intrusive—the issues are definitely not serious enough that they detract from my fun more than introducing a penis would do.  O_O

 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[InsanityFactor]

1 minute ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I haven't tried 2.0.8 yet, but I almost have my modlist set up to start playing with it—hopefully by the time I go to bed, although it's already pretty late... But is this a new issue for you?  I haven't had this problem with 2.0.1; I don't think GagSFX would be working with PAHE slaves, but I just thought I'd mention it as the only reason I can think of for why someone else might be experiencing a problem I'm not, since I figure I'm more likely than most to have a problem that exists between the chair and keyboard.  ?

Yes so this was not an issue in 2.0.1 for me, but as soon as I updated to 2.0.8 it surfaced. It looks like Troll adjusted something in that version and is aware of the issue, he made it sound like an easy fix so hopefully it'll be gone next version. I've had mixed results with GagSFX and PAHE in the past, but overall it worked alright if I remember...maybe I'll try it again.

 

4 minutes ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'm still looking to improve my custom animation loadout, but right now, I have the SLAL spanking mini-pack that's on the Devious Followers page (you don't need the mod to use the animation pack), the a few lesbian and solo female animations from the human pack by Leito, and the full set of lesbian animations from Billyy.  The Billyy animations are absolutely perfect in design, but I've had some issues with their implementation that I haven't had a chance to troubleshoot yet (e.g., see photo below), so I don't know if the problem is on my end or the animator's.  This is enough to give me a decent range of animations, and mostly, they work pretty well as long as I can keep Devious Devices from breaking them—as mentioned in an earlier post, I think I need to mess around with Deviously Non-Devious Devices to try to make this less of a headache in my game.  The biggest animation issue I have in the context of PAHE/HSH/DoM is the issue discussed in my previous post with how these mods and SexLab define and select the actors' roles in Lesbian animations.  

Just as I feared, I already use all of those SLAL packs! Oh well, anyway they do provide some good variety like you said, just asking around if I missed any good packs.

 

5 minutes ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

On the whole, I can definitely feel that I'm playing a female in a world built for males from time to time, but it isn't hugely intrusive—the issues are definitely not serious enough that they definitely detract from my fun more than introducing a penis would do.  O_O

I see. Well personally the introduction of a penis isn't much of a disaster for me, so I suppose that's why I tend to lose interest in my female PAHE slaver games because I have no problem switching to a male character for greater stability, immersion, etc. In the earlier days of this mod I recall me and @CliftonJD trying to figure out a better animation filter for female PCs for cunnilingus animations, maybe we can revisit that and figure something out.

 

The way I see it, each PAHE sex dialogue would have to be created carefully and specifically for female PCs since it's really really hard to make all the mods agree on what 'dominant' and 'receiving' actually mean. I think maybe it could work something like: For FF, the options would be Cunnilingus, Lesbian, Player Strapon, Slave Strapon.

 

Cunnilingus plays any non-aggressive animations with the 'cunnilingus' tag, lesbian plays anything non-aggressive with the 'FF' and 'vaginal' tags, player strapon plays any non-aggressive MF vaginal/anal animation but the player is the 'male' and wears the strapon, and slave strapon is non-aggressive animations with the 'cowgirl' or 'reverse cowgirl' tag(s) would play and the slave is the 'male' and wears a strapon. That way the dominance of the female PC is still intact because even when the slave wears the strapon the PC is still 'on top.'

 

For hetero female player it would be similar: Cunnilingus, Vaginal, Cowgirl/Reverse Cowgirl, and Anal. So cunnilingus option looks for that tag, vaginal just plays any vaginal MF animation, cowgirl/reverse cowgirl looks for those tags, and anal looks for the anal tag. 

 

I think that's almost exactly how it's set up now, hopefully Clifton can say, but I think this^ setup should work properly, at least for consensual animations. Apologies if that's how it already is, I haven't checked in a while.

 

Aggressive animations is where it gets hard because then there's the determination of who the aggressor is and the game/mod(s) have a hard time using the female for that. So that's why for example PAHE literally has no way of knowing the difference between a female-drive 'forced cowgirl' and a male-driven 'forced cowgirl' since those are both aggressive and cowgirl. There's also a distinct lack of aggressive lesbian animations available, and there's literally none in default SexLab, which is a problem because it can't be so that SLAL packs are required for PAHE usage. 

 

So I'm thinking the aggressive FF options would just be like this: "Cunnilingus" "Strapon Vaginal" "Strapon Anal" This means that if a slave refuses then the options are to make them lick the PC, or the PC force fucks them anally or vaginally with a strapon using MF vaginal/anal aggressive animation. For compatibility I'd say maybe the "aggressive" cunnilingus option should not actually be filtered to aggressive since there'd be no default animations fitting the bill. I think this makes sense but that's kind of what I was getting at is I want to see what you guys think, I especially want to see if Clifton thinks it would work.

 

So then the idea is to make the aggressive dialogue for oral sex work properly and make sense, and then players can decide what makes more sense for an aggressive lesbian discipline encounter, a strapon situation or cunnilingus given to the PC? I know that the way it's set up now is almost exactly like this but I'm hoping doing it as I describe might allow for the hardcoded cunnilingus animations to be softened and allow for SLAL packs to actually come into play when doing it through these dialogues. Let me know if I forgot anything.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

8 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

maybe we can revisit that and figure something out.

Well, y'all definitely know more about this stuff than I do, but the only idea that jumps out at me is that you mentioned a tool a few days ago for re-tagging SL animations.  Perhaps we could agree upon a standard set of lesbian animations, then use that tool to make a patch that sets custom tags that the PAHE family could use for FF encounters?  Or maybe that wouldn't remotely work—no idea, just trying to spitball here.

 

Another possible bandaid fix that just occurred to me would be a simple MCM toggle that lesbian players could enable that just inverts which actor calls the "dominant" tag from SL animations (i.e., slaves are "dominant") in non-aggressive scenes, since—as I described in my reply to Clifton—it seems to be pretty consistently the opposite of what you'd expect.  Or an option to randomise it could be good, too.

 

EDIT: Come to think of it, Submissive Lola seems to do a good job with the actor roles; maybe @HexBolt8 has found a solution?

 

8 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

Aggressive animations is where it gets hard because then there's the determination of who the aggressor is and the game/mod(s) have a hard time using the female for that.

Since I personally avoid aggressive sexual encounters, I don't have a lot of insight here, but I don't think it's gamebreaking to just male aggressor MF animations with the PC wearing a strapon for the most part.  Some good face sitting animations and such would be nice for sure, but this seems relatively low priority compared to a lot of other things.  I could understand some players having stronger feelings here than I do, though.  

 

---

 

On the whole, you're talking about a lot more ambitious changes than I'd need.  I don't have a problem with anything you've described, but I'd be absolutely over the moon if just two things could be fixed with the animation system:

1) Clearly separate dialogue paths for consensual sex vs. rape.

2) Dialogue control over PC/slave roles for "asymmetrical" scenes along the lines of, "Come give me..." vs. "Let me give you..."

The first seems like it should be pretty easy.  The second seems to be quite thorny.  

Edited November 7, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[sidfu1]

there is already dialogue to be used for rape and consensual it just doesn't work

under  punishing slave you have rape
under normal ok slave you have lets fuck

Edited November 7, 2021 by sidfu1

[Antiope_Apollonia]

2 hours ago, sidfu1 said:

there is already dialogue to be used for rape and consensual it just doesn't work

under  punishing slave you have rape
under normal ok slave you have lets fuck

I'm not so sure about that.  There isn't necessarily a one-to-one mapping between rape and punishment sex.  You could definitely rape your slave just because you're horny and she said, "no."  And a well-trained slave would likely consent to being punished sexually if she knows she's broken mistress's rules.  

 

Punishment sex is fine as-is generally, I think.  But non-punishment sex needs to be differentiated between:

1) Aggressive flagged animations, will check for consent, but proceeds as rape if the slave doesn't consent.

2) Non-aggressive flagged animations, will check for consent, and stops if the slave doesn't consent, offering the player the opportunity to instead switch to option 1 or to back out and apply another form of punishment.  

 

It would also be amazing to have a second option for punishment sex where you can either punish with aggressive sex as it is now or, e.g., by denying orgasms, but that'd probably require new animations, so I'd put it way down the list of priorities compared to sorting out the consent situation.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[DocClox]

I'm getting lag issues where I have to hammer the quick menu button half a dozen times before it opens, and where menu won't open, or when it does it gets closed again before I can do anything.

 

So I'm starting a non-DoM run to see how that compares. So far so good, but I won't be able to make any real comparisons until I get to about 50 slaves or so. Then I'll have something to report.

 

I also think I know why I wasn't getting full profile info with  Elephant's Latency Tester. I'll have a look at that too.

[DocClox]

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'm not so sure about that.  There isn't necessarily a one-to-one mapping between rape and punishment sex.  You could definitely rape your slave just because you're horny and she said, "no."  And a well-trained slave would likely consent to being punished sexually if she knows she's broken mistress's rules.  

 

The thing that bothers me is where I have a well trained slave and I want to be nice to her. So I choose the sex option, and she willingly agrees, and then I see "punishing <slave> with rape for no reason".

 

Not a huge deal since there are other methods of starting sex. But it does come across as a little counter-intuitive.

[TrollAutokill]

3 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

The thing that bothers me is where I have a well trained slave and I want to be nice to her. So I choose the sex option, and she willingly agrees, and then I see "punishing <slave> with rape for no reason".

 

Not a huge deal since there are other methods of starting sex. But it does come across as a little counter-intuitive.

If you start it from "Ok Slave" dialogue, it should at least say "punishing with sex for no reason". If  that's correct, we can easily change the message for the sake of immersion.

[TrollAutokill]

Version 2.0.9 is out with less "not_respectful" messages and some messages about virginity, just for fun.

[DocClox]

54 minutes ago, TrollAutokill said:

If you start it from "Ok Slave" dialogue, it should at least say "punishing with sex for no reason".

 

It might say that. I'm posting from work and quoting from memory.