Diary Of Mine for Paradise Halls [WIP]

[DonQuiWho]

3 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

There's an SSE file in the download list for the LE version.

 

I've been meaning to make a proper SE release for a while now. Might do that over the weekend.

 

Thanks

 

I'll wait for the real McCoy, then.  No rush, as I might struggle to fit it into this game 

 

LOL

[InsanityFactor]

4 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Version 2.0.7 is out. The code is getting ready for the next change (to come: less mood swings and more mood variety).

 

While testing this version, one should make sure the idles and moods are working correctly. Only slight changes with previous version.

Is this safe to upgrade from 2.0.1? Any special instructions for doing so? I've got about 20 slaves right now, no HSH.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:32 AM, InsanityFactor said:

It might be the personalities? The one thing I can say is that all three of mine have similar personalities, because all three of them can be good thugs, so I made them in love in preparation for that update. It's not just shock, it's also orgasms and punishments. Looking at your screenshots the only thing I can see that you might not have done is orgasms, since that isn't shown on those sheets. If you haven't already, try that as many times as you can, maybe it'll work? Get her blushing and then do vaginal sex until you get an orgasm, each one will alter her personality stats to cum more easily so it shouldn't be too hard once you get the ball rolling, hopefully. Honestly it looks like you did everything else that you were supposed to, you might just have a legitimate bug on your hands, try orgasms as many times as you can but the shocks look like you've done enough.

I don't think it's personalities, because I have this problem with every slave, and I capture plenty.  It definitely could have to do with orgasms, though.  I wasn't aware that that was a big factor.  Is your PC male or female?  I've noticed that SexLab & SLAR/SLAX/SLAM don't seem to work very well for lesbian players.  For example, my PC is more likely to orgasm when fucking someone with a strapon than when getting eaten out, which obviously doesn't make sense.  And I can have sex several times in a row at 100 arousal without ever cumming.  I haven't looked into exactly what's going on here too closely yet—it's on my to-do list.  I think my slaves should probably cum more easily than my PC, though, given that one of the oddities with SexLab for lesbian players is that cunnilingus animations and such almost always seem to place my PC in the giver role.*  I don't know if maybe I could address this by adjusting my settings somehow or what, but I definitely have a number of issues with this stuff.  

 

*This would be a great area where PAHE could be improved, actually.  In the "You, strip!  I'm going to have some fun with you" dialogue tree (which I really think should be reworded to be more clearly differentiated from the rape options), there could be two separate dialogue choices to control which actor is in which sexual role.  Bonus points if the wording of those dialogue options could be determined by the genders of the participants.  (e.g., "Come here my pet, your mistress wants to taste you.")

 

On 11/3/2021 at 3:32 AM, InsanityFactor said:

Get her blushing and then do vaginal sex until you get an orgasm, each one will alter her personality stats to cum more easily so it shouldn't be too hard once you get the ball rolling, hopefully.

Can you say more about this?  By "get her blushing," do you mean "ashamed" mood or are you referring to arousal?  Also, what exactly is defined as "vaginal sex" in this context (especially bearing in mind everyone involved is female), and how do you control what kind of sex the characters have?  It's really sounding like SexLab and/or SLA(R/X/M) might be the source of my woes, so some notes there: I have SexLab set to "Filter Gay/Lesbian Animations", "Filter Gender Tags Animations", and "Restrict Strapons Use".  Even still, I seem to get MF animations with strapons not too infrequently.  And I have additional lesbian animations loaded through SLAL including Leito and Billyy, although I've been having some weird behaviour here where SexLab will start playing one of these animations, and then interrupt it to instead play one of the default animations, and I haven't been able to figure out what's going on with that yet.  For arousal, I'm currently using SLAX, but I haven't really noticed a difference from SLAR, and when I tried SLAM, I couldn't get the SE port working very well.

 

Some of what's going on may have something to do with the use of Devious Devices plugs, too, but again, I haven't had the chance to get to the bottom of what's going on yet.  I'd be very grateful for any insight anyone can share, here, though.  

 

On 11/3/2021 at 3:32 AM, InsanityFactor said:

Here are the three I mentioned, you might just have some slaves that need a lot more punishments than average, I had to do 60 on my longest one. Also my humilations are way higher than yours, and scoldings. (You got me beat on praising though, wow!) I'm not even sure what counts as 'one humiliation' maybe stripping? I do that one a lot...

Lol, yeah, I don't really miss many opportunities for praise.  My slaves are more cherished pets than mere chattel.  And who doesn't enjoy telling a cherished pet what a good girl she is?  The slave I posted was one of my first captures this playthrough if not my very first, so she's been fully trained for quite some time, thus she's always a very good girl!  She's by my side in every fight, too, so a lot of those praises are for fighting well (hence the 200+ combat score).  

 

On 11/3/2021 at 7:46 AM, TrollAutokill said:

Yes we should definitely add the gifts as part of the good treatments. 

I would very much enjoy this feature if it were done right.  The first thing that comes to mind is that the main gift I'd want to give my slaves would be food treats, so it'd be important that the mod removes them from the inventory after eating so they don't unimmersively pile up.*  The other potential concern that occurs to me is that my slaves aren't permitted any clothes except a ring and some Devious Devices, so if the system required specific gifts, there's a potential conflict there. 

 

This gives me two ideas that I think would be really cool, but I don't know what anyone else would think about them.  

1) It seems like someone much cleverer than I am could do something really awesome with a "PAHE Survival" extension, where you have to feed your slaves or they'll starve.  (Or @CliftonJD could build such a thing into a future version of core PAHE, although you wouldn't want it to be mandatory, and I imagine his/her hands are plenty full already).  If you let them go hungry, before they starve, it could cause them to misbehave or even rebel, but perhaps perfectly well-trained slaves actually would just starve before disobeying their mistress.  I suppose HSH Taskmasters / DoM Thugs would be responsible for feeding slaves under their care, but the player would have to provide them with bulk food to do so; bonus points if you have a dialogue option with the taskmaster/thug to the effect of, "You don't have to feed the other slaves today—I'll do it while I'm here."  When you feed slaves yourself, you could have some options for how to do so, e.g., eating out of a dog bowl for humiliation training or eating out of mistress's hand for a reward (mega bonus points for including custom animations for these).  It's probably worth pointing out that this might require tweaking the default inventory of food vendors to carry higher quantities of staple foods.  You could further have optional Frostfall integration for warmth, but I wouldn't be interested in that, personally.  This extension would address a significant gap in B&D culture as currently represented in these mods, as a big part of the dom's role in dom/sub relationships is taking responsibility for making sure the sub's basic needs are all met.  

 

2) A fun one-off gift that could be integrated into an alternative falling in love path could be a slave ring.  I have it on my to-do list to get such a ring into the game—I'm pretty sure creating such a mod is within even my modest ability, I just need to track down the right model (suggestions/tips welcome).  (I've been too busy IRL to do anything more demanding than experimenting with PAHE/DoM/HSH recently.)  If I do, it'd be completely open-use other than any limitations imposed by the creator of whatever textures it uses, so if you wanted to roll it into your mod, I certainly wouldn't stand in your way.  The way I could envisage this going would be that, once the slave reaches 100 training in every skill (possible exception to combat, but I personally would be quite okay with combat being included—maybe an exclusion for combat training could even be toggled in the MCM), you can choose to have a little mini-ceremony where the slave kneels before her mistress, and you present her with her slave ring (bonus points for a custom animation to place the ring on her finger) and tell her that she's a good girl and that she should wear it with pride as an ever-present reminder that mistress loves her pets.  Bonus points if, if incompletely trained slaves are in the vicinity, you further address them to say that they should look forward to when they can earn their rings if they work hard and behave; more bonus points if that address has a small training effect.  Perhaps you automatically play a sex scene at the conclusion (further bonus if you could neatly loop a cunnilingus animation until she cums), although this could also be left to be done manually.  Yet more bonus points if taking the ring away later is very upsetting for the slave and if the options to sell or release the slave are disabled while she's wearing it.  This seems like it might be harder to implement, but letting the ring (or, maybe more feasibly, the ceremony rather than the ring itself?) flag the slave as essential would be great along the same lines, too.  Whatever the details of what's actually possible, something like this would be a perfect prerequisite for the non-traumatic path to falling in love (more on which below).

 

Imagine deciding to sell a slave who has received her ring and loves her mistress.  You'd have to take the ring away and see her sob uncontrollably before you can talk to the Fellglow guy or Pardo or whomever; maybe she'd even be crying too much to be able to follow you, so you'd have to do it in front of them or use harsh punishment against her for the first time in ages.  The RP/immersion would be off the charts.  I don't know if I could do it!

 

On 11/3/2021 at 3:32 AM, InsanityFactor said:

Yes I'm personally always in favor of being nice to slaves (from time to time) I always give my favorites jewelry and nice clothes, hopefully we see a point where the mod can recognize good treatment and it can have its own benefits.

For me, from an RP perspective, some harsh punishment is a necessary evil before the slave accepts her circumstances, but I take no pleasure in it.  I'm happy to use some more moderate punishment like leaving them hogtied or in strict devices/furniture.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, if there were some integrated spanking as a punishment option that were less harsh than whipping/magicka, that'd be cool, too.  But I'm happy to favour positive reinforcement over correction whenever possible.  I also keep in mind that—at least as I conceive of my Tamriel—my slaves don't really have a better alternative life available.  The vast majority had their lives spared in combat, and the small minority that were taken in their sleep were pirates or some other sort of miscreant.  So if they weren't under my care, they'd be facing execution by the local jarl.  I have to make them behave for their own sake as well as mine, but those who learn to embrace the life I can offer them can look forward to long lives as beloved pets, valued servants, or for a lucky few, even trusted companions on the battlefield.

 

So, for me, the praise/scold system from DoM alone is absolutely transformative to the PAHE experience.  Anything that builds on that further is extremely welcome.  

 

On 11/3/2021 at 7:46 AM, TrollAutokill said:

Humiliation can be achieved through stripping, but mainly through checking slave intimate parts.

Interesting that that's designed as the principle tool for humiliation training.  To be honest, I've almost completely ignored that feature—I think I've inspected a slave maybe five–ten times in all my many hours of play with DoM.  I just don't find it to be a very interesting mechanic as it currently exists.  There's only one animation as far as I can tell, that animation is fine although nothing too exciting, and it doesn't always play (I haven't investigated much obviously, but I think certain Devious Devices might block it?).  And it just doesn't do anything interesting beyond the animation as far as I can tell.  This feature could be a lot more enticing to play with if, for instance, it had significant impacts on PC and slave arousal.  Maybe it could generate some kind of report with details about how wet the slave is, how hard her nipples are, how tightly her pussy is(n't) clenched, how she reacts to your touch, etc.  Not sure what all could be done with this, but right now, it feels pretty easy to ignore.  

 

Regardless of the state of the body inspection feature, though, I still maintain that it feels quite strange that occasionally stripping a mostly-clothed slave plays out as more humiliating than keeping them naked all the time. 

 

Also, just a quick note on a quirk I've noticed: Removing certain Devious Devices—straightjackets for sure, including the topless varieties, and I think hobble dresses and maybe corsets—counts as stripping, which is a little weird.  

 

On 11/3/2021 at 7:46 AM, TrollAutokill said:

As for in love:

 

- “Normal” falling in love would be nice but totally unrealistic for an NPC already enslaved and being punished daily. If we forget the unrealisticness, in favour of fun, it would require a smooth path for enslavement and that’s tricky. Still that would be more “mind bending” rather than real falling in love.

- The real falling in love is more the job of a romance mod, then integration into DoM would mean being able to deceive the NPC with enslavement. Could be fun too, but complicated. But name one of those mods and I will see what can be done.
 

- So for the moment, out of those 3, we have only the survival mechanism, because it is easier to implement and realistic. Stockholm syndrome just requires: fear for life, no escape possible and hope to survive. Weirdly it usually leads to much stronger bounds than “real” love, and is a real pain in the ass for the victim trying to break free, in RL.

Edited yesterday at 07:48 AM by TrollAutokill

I don't think there's any need for anything like a romance mod.  Maybe I'm just not aware of the right romance mods, but that seems like a very different thing.  I would be thrilled to death with something that, as far as my ignoramus brain can tell, would be pretty easy to implement; it could be a simple list of conditions, and when they're all met, the slave falls in love.  Or, a bit more involved and a bit more immersive, but a little more difficult—I think only a little, though—would be to have a percent chance to fall in love each time you have non-rape sex after all the conditions are met.  A little more involved still would be to have that percent chance weighted by certain factors such as the slave's sensuality and mood.  What I'm imagining would be something like:

☐ Slave is not currently sad.

☐ Slave is not currently angry.

☐ Slave is currently falling in love (100).

☐ Slave is rated 100 in all training skills.

☐ Slave has not received punishment of any kind "for no reason" in X days.

☐ Slave has not received harsh punishment in X days.

☐ Slave has not had a friend killed in X days.

☐ Slave has been praised at least Y times in X days.  (Or maybe better: If Slave has been scolded Z times in X days, then Slave has been praised Z*k times in that time.)

☐ Slave has had non-rape sex with mistress at least N times.  

If all of the above are true, then the slave either falls in love or has whatever chance of falling in love.  Of course, this list isn't intended to be definitive—just an example.  

 

I could be completely off base, because my knowledge of the inner workings of this stuff is quite limited, but I don't think any of this would be nearly as difficult to do as a lot of things you've already pulled off.  Of course, it's your mod, so if you just don't want to, that's completely your prerogative; I'm just trying to provide the most robust and actionable user feedback that I can, operating on the assumption that your mod reaching an audience is something important for you.  

 

On 11/3/2021 at 7:46 AM, TrollAutokill said:

If we forget the unrealisticness, in favour of fun, it would require a smooth path for enslavement and that’s tricky. Still that would be more “mind bending” rather than real falling in love.

I would argue that, at least given the RP assumptions I've described, a path to love like I've suggested isn't really more unrealistic.  I think I could make my case within the psychology literature if I wanted to take the time to dig into it, especially given how controversial a lot of the literature on Stockholm Syndrome is, but I'd rather just hang my hat on the view that, when realism and fun come into conflict, games should generally err on the side of fun.  Having an additional less brutal path to slaves falling in love seems like a win-win in that respect, as it'd add a huge amount of enjoyment for players like me in a way that wouldn't seem to have much impact on the enjoyment of players who prefer the more traumatic path.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by SleinJinn

[TrollAutokill]

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

Is this safe to upgrade from 2.0.1? Any special instructions for doing so? I've got about 20 slaves right now, no HSH.

It should be safe. Sometimes scripts get embedded in the save files, but they should be compatible between those 2 versions.

 

You might want to look out for idles not playing correctly.

Edited November 4, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[TrollAutokill]

50 minutes ago, SleinJinn said:

I don't think it's personalities, because I have this problem with every slave, and I capture plenty.  It definitely could have to do with orgasms, though.  I wasn't aware that that was a big factor.  Is your PC male or female?  I've noticed that SexLab & SLAR/SLAX/SLAM don't seem to work very well for lesbian players.  For example, my PC is more likely to orgasm when fucking someone with a strapon than when getting eaten out, which obviously doesn't make sense.  And I can have sex several times in a row at 100 arousal without ever cumming.  I haven't looked into exactly what's going on here too closely yet—it's on my to-do list.  I think my slaves should probably cum more easily than my PC, though, given that one of the oddities with SexLab for lesbian players is that cunnilingus animations and such almost always seem to place my PC in the giver role.*  I don't know if maybe I could address this by adjusting my settings somehow or what, but I definitely have a number of issues with this stuff.  

 

*This would be a great area where PAHE could be improved, actually.  In the "You, strip!  I'm going to have some fun with you" dialogue tree (which I really think should be reworded to be more clearly differentiated from the rape options), there could be two separate dialogue choices to control which actor is in which sexual role.  Bonus points if the wording of those dialogue options could be determined by the genders of the participants.  (e.g., "Come here my pet, your mistress wants to taste you.")

 

Can you say more about this?  By "get her blushing," do you mean "ashamed" mood or are you referring to arousal?  Also, what exactly is defined as "vaginal sex" in this context (especially bearing in mind everyone involved is female), and how do you control what kind of sex the characters have?  It's really sounding like SexLab and/or SLA(R/X/M) might be the source of my woes, so some notes there: I have SexLab set to "Filter Gay/Lesbian Animations", "Filter Gender Tags Animations", and "Restrict Strapons Use".  Even still, I seem to get MF animations with strapons not too infrequently.  And I have additional lesbian animations loaded through SLAL including Leito and Billyy, although I've been having some weird behaviour here where SexLab will start playing one of these animations, and then interrupt it to instead play one of the default animations, and I haven't been able to figure out what's going on with that yet.  For arousal, I'm currently using SLAX, but I haven't really noticed a difference from SLAR, and when I tried SLAM, I couldn't get the SE port working very well.

 

Some of what's going on may have something to do with the use of Devious Devices plugs, too, but again, I haven't had the chance to get to the bottom of what's going on yet.  I'd be very grateful for any insight anyone can share, here, though.  

 

Lol, yeah, I don't really miss many opportunities for praise.  My slaves are more cherished pets than mere chattel.  And who doesn't enjoy telling a cherished pet what a good girl she is?  The slave I posted was one of my first captures this playthrough if not my very first, so she's been fully trained for quite some time, thus she's always a very good girl!  She's by my side in every fight, too, so a lot of those praises are for fighting well (hence the 200+ combat score).  

 

I would very much enjoy this feature if it were done right.  The first thing that comes to mind is that the main gift I'd want to give my slaves would be food treats, so it'd be important that the mod removes them from the inventory after eating so they don't unimmersively pile up.*  The other potential concern that occurs to me is that my slaves aren't permitted any clothes except a ring and some Devious Devices, so if the system required specific gifts, there's a potential conflict there. 

 

This gives me two ideas that I think would be really cool, but I don't know what anyone else would think about them.  

1) It seems like someone much cleverer than I am could do something really awesome with a "PAHE Survival" extension, where you have to feed your slaves or they'll starve.  (Or @CliftonJD could build such a thing into a future version of core PAHE, although you wouldn't want it to be mandatory, and I imagine his/her hands are plenty full already).  If you let them go hungry, before they starve, it could cause them to misbehave or even rebel, but perhaps perfectly well-trained slaves actually would just starve before disobeying their mistress.  I suppose HSH Taskmasters / DoM Thugs would be responsible for feeding slaves under their care, but the player would have to provide them with bulk food to do so; bonus points if you have a dialogue option with the taskmaster/thug to the effect of, "You don't have to feed the other slaves today—I'll do it while I'm here."  When you feed slaves yourself, you could have some options for how to do so, e.g., eating out of a dog bowl for humiliation training or eating out of mistress's hand for a reward (mega bonus points for including custom animations for these).  It's probably worth pointing out that this might require tweaking the default inventory of food vendors to carry higher quantities of staple foods.  You could further have optional Frostfall integration for warmth, but I wouldn't be interested in that, personally.  This extension would address a significant gap in B&D culture as currently represented in these mods, as a big part of the dom's role in dom/sub relationships is taking responsibility for making sure the sub's basic needs are all met.  

 

2) A fun one-off gift that could be integrated into an alternative falling in love path could be a slave ring.  I have it on my to-do list to get such a ring into the game—I'm pretty sure creating such a mod is within even my modest ability, I just need to track down the right model (suggestions/tips welcome).  (I've been too busy IRL to do anything more demanding than experimenting with PAHE/DoM/HSH recently.)  If I do, it'd be completely open-use other than any limitations imposed by the creator of whatever textures it uses.  The way I could envisage this going would be that, once the slave reaches 100 training in every skill (possible exception to combat, but I personally would be quite okay with combat being included—maybe an exclusion for combat training could even be toggled in the MCM), you can choose to have a little mini-ceremony where the slave kneels before her mistress, and you present her with her slave ring (bonus points for a custom animation to place the ring on her finger) and tell her that she's a good girl and that she should wear it with pride as an ever-present reminder that mistress loves her pets.  Bonus points if, if incompletely trained slaves are in the vicinity, you further address them to say that they should look forward to when they can earn their rings if they work hard and behave; more bonus points if that address has a small training effect.  Perhaps you automatically play a sex scene at the conclusion, although this could also be left to be done manually.  This would be a perfect prerequisite for the non-traumatic path to falling in love (more on which below).

 

For me, from an RP perspective, some harsh punishment is a necessary evil before the slave accepts her circumstances, but I take no pleasure in it.  I'm happy to use some more moderate punishment like leaving them hogtied or in strict devices/furniture.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, if there were some integrated spanking as a punishment option that were less harsh than whipping/magicka, that'd be cool, too.  But I'm happy to favour positive reinforcement over correction whenever possible.  I also keep in mind that—at least as I conceive of my Tamriel—my slaves don't really have a better alternative life available.  The vast majority had their lives spared in combat, and the small minority that were taken in their sleep were pirates or some other sort of miscreant.  So if they weren't under my care, they'd be facing execution by the local jarl.  I have to make them behave for their own sake as well as mine, but those who learn to embrace the life I can offer them can look forward to long lives as beloved pets, valued servants, or for a lucky few, even trusted companions on the battlefield.

 

So, for me, the praise/scold system from DoM alone is absolutely transformative to the PAHE experience.  Anything that builds on that further is extremely welcome.  

 

Interesting that that's designed as the principle tool for humiliation training.  To be honest, I've almost completely ignored that feature—I think I've inspected a slave maybe five–ten times in all my many hours of play with DoM.  I just don't find it to be a very interesting mechanic as it currently exists.  There's only one animation as far as I can tell, that animation is fine although nothing too exciting, and it doesn't always play (I haven't investigated much obviously, but I think certain Devious Devices might block it?).  And it just doesn't do anything interesting beyond the animation as far as I can tell.  This feature could be a lot more enticing to play with if, for instance, it had significant impacts on PC and slave arousal.  Maybe it could generate some kind of report with details about how wet the slave is, how hard her nipples are, how tightly her pussy is(n't) clenched, how she reacts to your touch, etc.  Not sure what all could be done with this, but right now, it feels pretty easy to ignore.  

 

Regardless of the state of the body inspection feature, though, I still maintain that it feels quite strange that occasionally stripping a mostly-clothed slave plays out as more humiliating than keeping them naked all the time. 

 

Also, just a quick note on a quirk I've noticed: Removing certain Devious Devices—straightjackets for sure, including the topless varieties, and I think hobble dresses and maybe corsets—counts as stripping, which is a little weird.  

 

I don't think there's any need for anything like a romance mod.  Maybe I'm just not aware of the right romance mods, but that seems like a very different thing.  I would be thrilled to death with something that, as far as my ignoramus brain can tell, would be pretty easy to implement; it could be a simple list of conditions, and when they're all met, the slave falls in love.  Or, a bit more involved and a bit more immersive, but a little more difficult—I think only a little, though—would be to have a percent chance to fall in love each time you have non-rape sex after all the conditions are met.  A little more involved still would be to have that percent chance weighted by certain factors such as the slave's sensuality and mood.  What I'm imagining would be something like:

☐ Slave is not currently sad.

☐ Slave is not currently angry.

☐ Slave is currently falling in love (100).

☐ Slave is rated 100 in all training skills.

☐ Slave has not received punishment of any kind "for no reason" in X days.

☐ Slave has not received harsh punishment in X days.

☐ Slave has not had a friend killed in X days.

☐ Slave has been praised at least Y times in X days.  (Or maybe better: If Slave has been scolded Z times in X days, then Slave has been praised Z*k times in that time.)

☐ Slave has had non-rape sex with mistress at least N times.  

If all of the above are true, then the slave either falls in love or has whatever chance of falling in love.  Of course, this list isn't intended to be definitive—just an example.  

 

I could be completely off base, because my knowledge of the inner workings of this stuff is quite limited, but I don't think any of this would be nearly as difficult to do as a lot of things you've already pulled off.  Of course, it's your mod, so if you just don't want to, that's completely your prerogative; I'm just trying to provide the most robust and actionable user feedback that I can, operating on the assumption that your mod reaching an audience is something important for you.  

 

I would argue that, at least given the RP assumptions I've described, a path to love like I've suggested isn't really more unrealistic.  I think I could make my case within the psychology literature if I wanted to take the time to dig into it, especially given how controversial a lot of the literature on Stockholm Syndrome is, but I'd rather just hang my hat on the view that, when realism and fun come into conflict, games should generally err on the side of fun.  Having an additional less brutal path to slaves falling in love seems like a win-win in that respect, as it'd add a huge amount of enjoyment for players like me in a way that wouldn't seem to have much impact on the enjoyment of players who prefer the more traumatic path.  

To reach in love mood you need a mix of everything to create terror and confusion : whip, scolding, praising, humiliation, sex, shocks and orgasms. The more the better. But beware some slaves are resistant to”falling in love”, usually because they are smart and bold.
 

For slave orgasms DoM has its own system. It is mostly driven by the slave sensuality trait.

 

Then you can order slaves to masturbate. Sometimes they won’t do it so threaten them and punish them to teach them. Teaching them posing is also a part of it. 
 

Once they are good enough at mastersbating they will blush (if you have slavetats) and that will give them a higher chance to have an orgasm. They can even get an orgasm by masturbating.

 

Sex them while they are blushing for maximum chance to orgasm. 

The problem with lesbian sex is on the pahe part and I agree with you it needs at least two paths. 

 

Body inspection animation depends on the humiliation level. The first one is just a slap on the ass. But it gets more physical as humiliation rises.

 

Psychology literature on people “falling in love” with their abusers, point out to survival instinct as a main explanation.
 

But in this game mod, you are still free to use mostly praises and gentle sex. Soon gifts. Maybe some jealousy in the future…

Edited November 4, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[InsanityFactor]

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

Can you say more about this?  By "get her blushing," do you mean "ashamed" mood or are you referring to arousal?  Also, what exactly is defined as "vaginal sex" in this context (especially bearing in mind everyone involved is female), and how do you control what kind of sex the characters have?  It's really sounding like SexLab and/or SLA(R/X/M) might be the source of my woes, so some notes there: I have SexLab set to "Filter Gay/Lesbian Animations", "Filter Gender Tags Animations", and "Restrict Strapons Use".  Even still, I seem to get MF animations with strapons not too infrequently.  And I have additional lesbian animations loaded through SLAL including Leito and Billyy, although I've been having some weird behaviour here where SexLab will start playing one of these animations, and then interrupt it to instead play one of the default animations, and I haven't been able to figure out what's going on with that yet.  For arousal, I'm currently using SLAX, but I haven't really noticed a difference from SLAR, and when I tried SLAM, I couldn't get the SE port working very well.

Yeah so like Troll just said, DoM has its own internal orgasm mechanic that is completely detached from SexLab orgasms, SLArousal, SLAL, and anything else. This is for maximum compatibility and so that those mods don't become hard requirements although patches for SLAL or DeviousDevices etc. are not impossible. 

 

Here's a quote from a post I made a while ago explaining the DoM orgasm mechanic to someone else:

 

"So SLSO causes separate orgasms based on the bars getting filled. Without it, at the last stage of an animation both actors orgasm as the same time. What the author did for this mod is he made his own orgasm function (let's call it a DoMgasm), so SexLab orgasms from either SLSO or vanilla SexLab have no effect on a slave's mind and are completely ignored, in favor of his own creation.

 

A slave can have a DoMgasm from sex or from being told to masturbate, I'm not sure what the base chance is but it's based on personality type and emotional state. The chance is higher if the slave is aroused (blushing) or in love, ashamed, etc. You can tell if a slave had one because she'll be drooling afterwards."

 

So command the slave to touch herself and then after some time she'll be blushing. When blushing she has a higher chance to orgasm during sex, you will receive a notification about it if it happens. The sensual/frigid stat is mostly responsible for orgasm chance as well as how quickly a slave will begin blushing.

 

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

Imagine deciding to sell a slave who has received her ring and loves her mistress.  You'd have to take the ring away and see her sob uncontrollably before you can talk to the Fellglow guy or Pardo or whomever; maybe she'd even be crying too much to be able to run, so you'd have to do it in front of them.  The RP/immersion would be off the charts.  I don't know if I could do it!

The whole ring idea sounds really cool actually, like some sort of endgame for slave training where you reach the quintessential servant, I'd like to see that one day!

 

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

I don't think it's personalities, because I have this problem with every slave, and I capture plenty.  It definitely could have to do with orgasms, though.  I wasn't aware that that was a big factor.  Is your PC male or female?  I've noticed that SexLab & SLAR/SLAX/SLAM don't seem to work very well for lesbian players.  For example, my PC is more likely to orgasm when fucking someone with a strapon than when getting eaten out, which obviously doesn't make sense.  And I can have sex several times in a row at 100 arousal without ever cumming.  I haven't looked into exactly what's going on here too closely yet—it's on my to-do list.  I think my slaves should probably cum more easily than my PC, though, given that one of the oddities with SexLab for lesbian players is that cunnilingus animations and such almost always seem to place my PC in the giver role.*  I don't know if maybe I could address this by adjusting my settings somehow or what, but I definitely have a number of issues with this stuff.  

Yeah lesbian stuff is still a bit iffy in PAHE, I usually do male PCs for that reason alone. But I believe the 'vaginal' option should yield the same results for both straight and lesbian. Give the blushing thing a try.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

For slave orgasms DoM has its own system. It is mostly driven by the slave sensuality trait.

 

Then you can order slaves to masturbate. Sometimes they won’t do it so threaten them and punish them to teach them. Teaching them posing is also a part of it. 
 

Once they are good enough at mastersbating they will blush (if you have slavetats) and that will give them a higher chance to have an orgasm. They can even get an orgasm by masturbating.

Ah, I don't have slavetats installed.  I don't really have any interest in its default applications, so I haven't messed with it.  What exactly depends on it?  The "Requirements" section on the front page doesn't say anything about this—just tears.  Is SlaveTats only needed for the visual component of blushing, or do you need it to have this mechanic in play all together? 

 

For falling in love, do orgasms need to come from mistress, or do orgasms achieved while masturbating count the same?  Because the slaves in question are sufficiently trained that they'll masturbate until their "brain melts" again and again if I tell them to.  

 

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

Psychology literature on people “falling in love” with their abusers, point out to survival instinct as a main explanation.

I think we're maybe talking past each other a bit on this. 

 

I think there are basically two fundamental ways to RP the content in PAHE/HSH/DoM that will appeal to two very different audiences, and it looks like you are in a different camp from me (and seemingly @InsanityFactor) in this case.  One way to play these mods is to explore fantasies of abuse, torture, subjugation, etc. in a safe context, where the slaves are treated more like chattel and viewed at best as means to the owner's ends (something closer to New World slavery). 

 

Another is to play them more like a virtual B&D culture, where the slaves are treated more like pets (something between modern consensual submissive relationships and Classical slavery).  For the latter, although these relationships aren't strictly consensual—Tamriel is a very imperfect world—they're an attempt to make the best of bad circumstances, and the owner really cares about her slaves, not as means to an end but as ends unto themselves.  Punishment may be necessary, if for nothing other than to protect delinquent slaves from themselves (remember, most of them were lawless bandits beforehand), but the owner takes no more pleasure in it than typical pet owners do in correcting their dogs' misbehaviours or, perhaps more accurately, than a typical rancher does in breaking a horse.  The slaves may never be equal in status to their owners, as is typical in any explicitly class-stratified society (which includes most of pre-Enlightenment Earth and certainly the Tamriel implied by these mods), but they can live a decent life within their social stratum.  

 

My guess would be that the audience for the latter conception is larger, but that may just be my egocentric bias.  Regardless, I don't really see anything preventing you from appealing to both demographics simultaneously without interference between them.  Having the existing post-traumatic love path doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment of the mod, and I don't see why having an alternative path like I've described that appeals to those of us in the second category would get in the way of the enjoyment of folks in the first.  So if you want to reach the largest possible audience and enrich the Skyrim experiences of the largest number of people, you certainly could cater to both demographics at once.  If that doesn't interest you, ça va, that's entirely your prerogative.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by SleinJinn

[Antiope_Apollonia]

You both have given me a lot to go on in better understanding the orgasm system, so I'll have to start investigating that further as best as I can within the limitations of PAHE/SexLab for FF interaction.  Thanks both of you for all the information and guidance!

 

31 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

The whole ring idea sounds really cool actually, like some sort of endgame for slave training where you reach the quintessential servant, I'd like to see that one day!

Combine the slave ring idea with the PAHE Survival idea, and if you want to release a slave who loves you and has received her ring, you have to take her ring and see her start sobbing uncontrollably before releasing her, and then, once she composes herself, she either waits around your home or follows you at a distance until she's too hungry to go without food any longer, and then she slinks off with some percent chance of dying of hunger before she finds food and starts her independent life.  If the latter happens, she disappears from your game, but if the former, you might stumble across her body.  Geeze, the feels!  I'm a little teary just imagining it clearly enough to write this!

 

34 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

Yeah lesbian stuff is still a bit iffy in PAHE, I usually do male PCs for that reason alone. But I believe the 'vaginal' option should yield the same results for both straight and lesbian. Give the blushing thing a try.

As a non-fan of penises, that isn't really an option for me.  I don't even have SoS.  I just have to do my best to try to duct tape things together with mods that are mostly designed with MF interactions in mind.  Can you clarify exactly what you mean by "the vaginal option", though?  When I tell my slave I'm going to have some fun with her, I don't seem to have any influence over what kind of interaction results.

[InsanityFactor]

Just now, SleinJinn said:

As a non-fan of penises, that isn't really an option for me.  I don't even have SoS.  I just have to do my best to try to duct tape things together with mods that are mostly designed with MF interactions in mind.  Can you clarify exactly what you mean by "the vaginal option", though?  When I tell my slave I'm going to have some fun with her, I don't seem to have any influence over what kind of interaction results.

Ahh I think I see the issue here! You're probably using "You strip! I'm going to have some fun with you!" That dialogue is from HSH as a matter of fact, and just plays a random animation. For the DoM orgasms and most other sex functionality you should do "Ok slave...I'm going to fuck you!" then you can select anal, oral, or vaginal for non-consensual if she refuses, or some more specific options if she agrees.

 

It should be about the same for lesbian stuff, the dialogue is different of course but I believe the options are something like player receiving oral, lesbian vaginal, and ass reaming with a strap on. Something like that I think. But anyway if you have never used the "Ok slave..." path of having sex with your slave, then you have never made them orgasm according to DoM, and that honestly could account for the difficulty with the in-love stuff. So try the vaginal option via that dialogue when a slave is blushing, and you should get a DoM orgasm soon enough.

[InsanityFactor]

48 minutes ago, SleinJinn said:

Ah, I don't have slavetats installed.  I don't really have any interest in its default applications, so I haven't messed with it.  What exactly depends on it?  The "Requirements" section on the front page doesn't say anything about this—just tears.  Is SlaveTats only needed for the visual component of blushing, or do you need it to have this mechanic in play all together? 

 

For falling in love, do orgasms need to come from mistress, or do orgasms achieved while masturbating count the same?  Because the slaves in question are sufficiently trained that they'll masturbate until their "brain melts" again and again if I tell them to.  

SlaveTats is only for the visual components like tears and blushing. They should still be aroused without it but you won't really have any means of knowing. And I think the orgasms count the same but you might have to ask Troll about that one, personally I have never seen an orgasm happen from masturbating so I can't really say, sex is much more reliable in my experience. 

 

48 minutes ago, SleinJinn said:

I think we're maybe talking past each other a bit on this. 

 

I think there are basically two fundamental ways to RP the content in PAHE/HSH/DoM that will appeal to two very different audiences, and it looks like you are in a different camp from me (and seemingly @InsanityFactor) in this case.  One way to play these mods is to explore fantasies of abuse, torture, subjugation, etc., where the slaves are treated more like chattel and viewed at best as means to the owner's ends (something closer to New World slavery). 

 

Another is to play them more like a virtual B&D culture, where the slaves are treated more like pets (something between modern consensual submissive relationships and Classical slavery).  For the latter, although these relationships aren't strictly consensual—Tamriel is a very imperfect world—they're an attempt to make the best of bad circumstances, and the owner really cares about her slaves, not as means to an end but as ends unto themselves.  Punishment may be necessary, if for nothing other than to protect delinquent slaves from themselves (remember, most of them were lawless bandits beforehand), but the owner takes no more pleasure in it than typical pet owners do in correcting their dogs' misbehaviours or, perhaps more accurately, than a typical rancher does in breaking a horse.  The slaves may never be equal in status to their owners, as is typical in any explicitly class-stratified society (which includes most of pre-Enlightenment Earth and certainly the Tamriel implied by these mods), but they can live a decent life within their social stratum.  

 

My guess would be that the audience for the latter conception is larger, but that may just be my egocentric bias.  Regardless, I don't really see anything preventing you from appealing to both demographics simultaneously without interference between them.  Having the existing post-traumatic love path doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment of the mod, and I don't see why having an alternative path like I've described that appeals to those of us in the second category would get in the way of the enjoyment of folks in the first.  So if you want to reach the largest possible audience and enrich the Skyrim experiences of the largest number of people, you certainly could cater to both demographics at once.  If that doesn't interest you, ça va, that's entirely your prerogative.  

Edited 25 minutes ago by SleinJinn

Yeah I certainly love B&D and the pet-like treatment in real life, but I appreciate a certain level of grittiness in games like this, which this mod certainly offers. There's no consensual arrangement of ownership there's just smacking a bandit upside the head and stealing her away. So how much intimacy can you realistically expect from a relationship that begins that way? I'm constantly torn trying to answer that question, because I love realism, but it's a fantasy genre, and I find myself being sentimental with slaves I've had for a long time, and I just don't know! Honestly I love everything as is, if only there were some more options for being nice to the slaves, like the gifts mechanic that's been mentioned a few times now.

 

But even outside this mod there's AYGAS for selling slaves and bringing about slavery as a formal institution in Skyrim, and you can witness slaves actually acting out their social class. But still it's through that chattel mentality, none of that Roman Servus Corporis type slavery, so really it appears to be the general consensus of the community as a whole, as all the major slavery mods focus more on brutality and the means to an end type thinking.

 

 

EDIT: I've also made a guide for this mod. It's not quite finished yet but give it a read to see if it helps with any other questions you might have. Take it with a grain of salt a couple things have changed since it's been written.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by InsanityFactor

[Antiope_Apollonia]

17 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

Ahh I think I see the issue here! You're probably using "You strip! I'm going to have some fun with you!" That dialogue is from HSH as a matter of fact, and just plays a random animation. For the DoM orgasms and most other sex functionality you should do "Ok slave...I'm going to fuck you!" then you can select anal, oral, or vaginal for non-consensual if she refuses, or some more specific options if she agrees.

 

It should be about the same for lesbian stuff, the dialogue is different of course but I believe the options are something like player receiving oral, lesbian vaginal, and ass reaming with a strap on. Something like that I think. But anyway if you have never used the "Ok slave..." path of having sex with your slave, then you have never made them orgasm according to DoM, and that honestly could account for the difficulty with the in-love stuff. So try the vaginal option via that dialogue when a slave is blushing, and you should get a DoM orgasm soon enough.

Oh, interesting.  I long ago started favouring the "You, strip!" dialogue tree because it always either triggers refusal or sex that counts as "You had sex..." rather than "You raped me..." and, well, I would much rather not rape them.  This way, I can punish them (even just by scolding) for refusing without raping them.  As I recall from before I abandoned the "Ok slave..." path, it's hard to tell whether you're "having sex with" or "raping" the slave.  I'll have to investigate further with that in mind, though.  Once again, thanks!

[Antiope_Apollonia]

2 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

Yeah I certainly love B&D and the pet-like treatment in real life, but I appreciate a certain level of grittiness in games like this, which this mod certainly offers. There's no consensual arrangement of ownership there's just smacking a bandit upside the head and stealing her away. So how much intimacy can you realistically expect from a relationship that begins that way? I'm constantly torn trying to answer that question, because I love realism, but it's a fantasy genre, and I find myself being sentimental with slaves I've had for a long time, and I just don't know! Honestly I love everything as is, if only there were some more options for being nice to the slaves, like the gifts mechanic that's been mentioned a few times now.

Yeah, I don't think it'd be reasonable to try to create actual consensual dom/sub relationships in these mods—you hit the nail on the head with the limits of what seems remotely believable given the mechanics of how these slaves come into your care.  But I think I've laid out an RP perspective that makes blending elements of B&D culture with Classical slavery quite plausible enough to suspend disbelief.  You bring up sentimentality—I can say I'm definitely way more attached to long-time PAHE slaves than I've ever been to any vanilla follower or even most custom followers, if for no other reason than because, even in their current incarnations, these mods make you earn your relationship (such as it is).  I hope it's clear to @TrollAutokill, @CliftonJD, and @Musje that I'm a huge fan of your work and I really enjoy these mods—I just see loads of potential for what's already great to be even better, and I hope my feedback is helpful to that end.

 

2 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

But even outside this mod there's AYGAS for selling slaves and bringing about slavery as a formal institution in Skyrim, and you can witness slaves actually acting out their social class. But still it's through that chattel mentality, none of that Roman Servus Corporis type slavery, so really it appears to be the general consensus of the community as a whole, as all the major slavery mods focus more on brutality and the means to an end type thinking.

I haven't tried AYGAS yet to be honest.  It's on my list.  Parts of it seem really cool—the idea of slavery being a part of the world instead of a thing that only happens around my PC would make it more immersive for sure.  But the apparent chattel mentality has made it less enticing, not to where I'm not interested in trying it, but simply to where I've let practical considerations override my interest.  To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I'm really ignorant about the technical side of these things, so maybe this fear is unfounded, but on the face of it, I'd assume that AYGAS would have a considerable "script footprint" or whathaveyou, and I've been trying to keep that stuff under control so I don't have to be cleverer than I am to keep everything working stably—and so far, so good.  And it just seems like a lot of systems to learn while I'm still trying to come to grips with everything in PAHE/HSH/DoM.  I would definitely be interested in your input on whether I should make AYGAS more of a priority in light of this whole conversation, though!

 

There is one popular mod that's more reminiscent of consensual dom/sub relationships, though: SL Sex Slaves / FG Love Slaves.  I've removed it from my load order, because the scripting seems like a total mess, and the replayability isn't great, but it has some really good points.  It feels a little self-contradictory, though.  The slaves aren't even that submissive by consensual sub stereotypes—they're certainly nothing like chattel—but then the slavery quest and training part of the mod is super brutal.  It feels almost like two completely different mods, although as I understand it, it's all the brainchild of one modder.  If you've never played with it, though, you should give it a try.  The voice acting is seriously excellent, and some of the writing is top drawer, too—if you could have the followers as standalones without the rest of the mod, it'd be perfect.  Just be warned that they're gated behind content that I have no idea why is so difficult—after having seen it once, I've only ever bypassed it with console commands, lol.  Oh, and if you take a PAHE slave into the Sex Slaves zone, they'll probably break.  If nothing else, the voice actress for Jenny is a much better bard than any of Skyrim's actual bards—that alone is worth trying it at least once, just don't use a save you care about.  

 

2 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

EDIT: I've also made a guide for this mod. It's not quite finished yet but give it a read to see if it helps with any other questions you might have. Take it with a grain of salt a couple things have changed since it's been written.

Will definitely check it out.  Cheers again!

Edited November 5, 2021 by SleinJinn

[ChingChongWong]

9 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

It's in version 2.0.7. Look in Olava's house, she is up to something. Or just use the console and search for "Distress Charm".

Rip gotta wait for LE Version I don't have SE OOOOF

[Antiope_Apollonia]

So yeah

2 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

Ahh I think I see the issue here! You're probably using "You strip! I'm going to have some fun with you!" That dialogue is from HSH as a matter of fact, and just plays a random animation. For the DoM orgasms and most other sex functionality you should do "Ok slave...I'm going to fuck you!" then you can select anal, oral, or vaginal for non-consensual if she refuses, or some more specific options if she agrees.

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

Oh, interesting.  I long ago started favouring the "You, strip!" dialogue tree because it always either triggers refusal or sex that counts as "You had sex..." rather than "You raped me..." and, well, I would much rather not rape them.  This way, I can punish them (even just by scolding) for refusing without raping them.  As I recall from before I abandoned the "Ok slave..." path, it's hard to tell whether you're "having sex with" or "raping" the slave.  I'll have to investigate further with that in mind, though.  Once again, thanks!

Okay, so I'm messing with this now.  Even for a maxed out slave, and even though she responded with dialogue that sounded consensual, DoM still recorded sex through the "Ok slave..." dialogue tree as rape.  Also, I'm not sure exactly what each option does: It seems pretty clear that "Use that mouth for what it's good for" should be oral sex, but "Spread those legs" and "Bend over and show me your cunt" both sound vaginal, although I guess one of them is just confusingly worded anal?  And I have no idea what "Wear this strap on and lie there" is meant to be in DoM terms.  I've just tried both "Spread..." and "Bend over..." a couple of times, and I can't tell a difference.  Both frustratingly mostly resulted in the slave giving my PC an air-BJ—SexLab seems to have interpreted "Restrict strapon use" as "just play MF animations without anything to actually make contact" in this context, although that's exactly the opposite of what that option is supposed to do.  I haven't successfully made either of the slaves I'm testing with cum from this yet (one of which is the one I showed a few posts ago), which makes sense since they're mostly just giving the BJ equivalent of playing air guitar.  I guess maybe I need to go through the SexLab MCM and manually disable almost all of the default animations to try to force it to play the lesbian animations—I'd have done it already if it weren't so daunting with how unorganised it all looks... there's no way to batch-disable by tag or anything unless I'm missing something obvious.

 

I can confirm my previous statement that well-trained slaves will masturbate to orgasm with the "touch yourself" command—not yet sure whether it's possible to fall in love from said orgasms.  

 

I also just uncovered a completely unrelated bug while messing with this.  If an aroused vanilla follower wants to have sex with a slave through the HSH feature, and the slave she chooses is currently "touching herself" through the DoM feature, that slave can get permalocked in the "busy" state.  I had to resort all the way to "recycleactor" to get her un-stuck—resetai, moving her, etc. weren't enough to fix it.  

Edited November 5, 2021 by SleinJinn

[InsanityFactor]

6 minutes ago, SleinJinn said:

So yeah

Okay, so I'm messing with this now.  Even for a maxed out slave, and even though she responded with dialogue that sounded consensual, DoM still recorded sex through the "Ok slave..." dialogue tree as rape.  Also, I'm not sure exactly what each option does: It seems pretty clear that "Use that mouth for what it's good for" should be oral sex, but "Spread those legs" and "Bend over and show me your cunt" both sound vaginal, although I guess one of them is just confusingly worded anal?  And I have no idea what "Wear this strap on and lie there" is meant to be in DoM terms.  I've just tried both "Spread..." and "Bend over..." a couple of times, and I can't tell a difference.  Both frustratingly mostly resulted in the slave giving my PC an air-BJ—SexLab seems to have interpreted "Restrict strapon use" as "just play MF animations without anything to actually make contact" in this context, although that's exactly the opposite of what that option is supposed to do.  I haven't successfully made either of the slaves I'm testing with cum from this yet (one of which is the one I showed a few posts ago), which makes sense since they're mostly just giving the BJ equivalent of playing air guitar.  I guess maybe I need to go through the SexLab MCM and manually disable almost all of the default animations to try to force it to play the lesbian animations—I'd have done it already if it weren't so daunting with how unorganised it all looks... there's no way to batch-disable by tag or anything unless I'm missing something obvious.

 

I can confirm my previous statement that well-trained slaves will masturbate to orgasm with the "touch yourself" command—not yet sure whether it's possible to fall in love from said orgasms.  

 

I also just uncovered a completely unrelated bug while messing with this.  If an aroused vanilla follower wants to have sex with a slave through the HSH feature, and the slave she chooses is currently "touching herself" through the DoM feature, that slave can get permalocked in the "busy" state.  I had to resort all the way to "recycleactor" to get her un-stuck—resetai, moving her, etc. weren't enough to fix it.  

Yeah so there are multiple vaginal options for consensual. They will just filter it down further so 'bend over' is doggystyle vaginal animations and 'spread your legs' is just any vaginal one. Anal is 'face down and spread those cheeks' 'Wear the strapon' makes the slave wear the strapon and plays a cowgirl vaginal animation. And yes they are still recorded as rape sometimes but as far as I can tell at this point it's just words on the screen and doesn't actually have any real effect on anything, so for now sex and rape are essentially of the same consequence (I think) Don't worry about it too much.

 

And yes lesbian stuff is just weird in PAHE still like I said, I believe 'bend over' is supposed to be a strapon doggystyle animation, while 'spread your legs' is supposed to be any animation with both the 'lesbian' and 'vaginal' tags. It doesn't sound like that's the case so you might need to mess with your SexLab settings to fix that one...In my experience those dialogues have worked well, with the occasional strapon being somewhere it shouldn't every now and then, but nothing like what you're describing. 

 

And for batch disabling what I usually do is just disable every animation that I know for a fact I don't like, and then go to the rebuild and clean settings in SexLab and click 'export settings.' Then, in the future you can just click 'import settings' and it will make all those disabled again. Cuts down on some of the work at least. Try SLATE out too, it allows you to add/remove tags to animations in-game, if that's something you need as well. I use it all the time.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

51 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

Yeah so there are multiple vaginal options for consensual. They will just filter it down further so 'bend over' is doggystyle vaginal animations and 'spread your legs' is just any vaginal one. Anal is 'face down and spread those cheeks' 'Wear the strapon' makes the slave wear the strapon and plays a cowgirl vaginal animation. And yes they are still recorded as rape sometimes but as far as I can tell at this point it's just words on the screen and doesn't actually have any real effect on anything, so for now sex and rape are essentially of the same consequence (I think) Don't worry about it too much.

I guess maybe it's because my PC is female, but I don't have the "Face down..." option at all.  Not too bothered, though, as I won't miss anal anyway.  Good to know the other two are both vaginal.  It bugs me to be told that I'm punishing my slave with sex for no reason and then to see rape in the stats pane for what you're saying is the intended consensual sex tool, though, even though my slave is verbally consenting to it.  And sometimes my slave says things like, "You could have just asked!" when I engage them sexually through this route, which is consistent with it not being consensual.  None of this unpleasantness happens with the "You, strip! ..." dialogue tree.  I really hope this can be reworked in a future update.  

 

I'm not having any more luck getting orgasms with this method than with "You, strip! ..." either, though.  The slaves I have touching themselves in the background while I have sex have cum twice, but after fucking a fairly sensual slave nine times in a row, she hasn't cum yet.  

51 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

And yes lesbian stuff is just weird in PAHE still like I said, I believe 'bend over' is supposed to be a strapon doggystyle animation, while 'spread your legs' is supposed to be any animation with both the 'lesbian' and 'vaginal' tags. It doesn't sound like that's the case so you might need to mess with your SexLab settings to fix that one...In my experience those dialogues have worked well, with the occasional strapon being somewhere it shouldn't every now and then, but nothing like what you're describing. 

This has been bugging me for a while since I added a bunch of better lesbian animations with SLAL, and I've taken this opportunity to finally get to the bottom of it.  A significant part of what's going on seems to be Devious Devices blocking certain animations.  I don't know why a buttplug should interfere with cunnilingus, but apparently it does in Tamriel.  Is there any way to get SexLab to add them to stripping?  When I tick "Show Full Inventory" on the strip tab in the MCM, the overwhelming majority of them don't show up.  I can obviously strip them manually every time but it's rather tedious.  I'd think there ought to be some kind of workaround there, even if I have to do it with Notepad.

51 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

And for batch disabling what I usually do is just disable every animation that I know for a fact I don't like, and then go to the rebuild and clean settings in SexLab and click 'export settings.' Then, in the future you can just click 'import settings' and it will make all those disabled again. Cuts down on some of the work at least. Try SLATE out too, it allows you to add/remove tags to animations in-game, if that's something you need as well. I use it all the time.

Yeah, I've been gradually disabling them as animations I don't like play.  I'm aware of the Import/Export settings option—it's a godsend!  I figure I'll get it all how I like it eventually... there are so many unappealing animations included by default that disabling them all manually is just kinda overwhelming, so I haven't undertaken that project yet.  

 

EDIT: Talking of Devious Devices, that makes me think of something.  If DoM uses its own internal arousal system rather than SLA, then that means no DD integration for slaves, so plugs and things that should make them hornier won't do so.  All the other things in this mod ecosystem that depend on SLA will be out of synch with slaves, too, like the aroused idles and such.  That seems like a significant drawback.  What's the reason for duplicating this functionality instead of integrating with everything else?

Edited November 5, 2021 by SleinJinn

[InsanityFactor]

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

This has been bugging me for a while since I added a bunch of better lesbian animations with SLAL, and I've taken this opportunity to finally get to the bottom of it.  A significant part of what's going on seems to be Devious Devices blocking certain animations.  I don't know why a buttplug should interfere with cunnilingus, but apparently it does in Tamriel.  Is there any way to get SexLab to add them to stripping?  When I tick "Show Full Inventory" on the strip tab in the MCM, the overwhelming majority of them don't show up.  I can obviously strip them manually every time but it's rather tedious.  I'd think there ought to be some kind of workaround there, even if I have to do it with Notepad.

Yeah I'm honestly not sure...That might be a question for a different support thread, I know SexLab and DeviousDevices stripping issues affecting animations is a pretty common issue people have. Try checking out the DD MCM, you might have some options there about what is considered a chastity device or not, again I'm not 100% sure. 

 

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

I'm not having any more luck getting orgasms with this method than with "You, strip! ..." either, though.  The slaves I have touching themselves in the background while I have sex have cum twice, but after fucking a fairly sensual slave nine times in a row, she hasn't cum yet. 

That's odd...Could be a quirk with having a female PC, but Troll would have to comment on that particular one.

 

1 hour ago, SleinJinn said:

EDIT: Talking of Devious Devices, that makes me think of something.  If DoM uses its own internal arousal system rather than SLA, then that means no DD integration for slaves, so plugs and things that should make them hornier won't do so.  All the other things in this mod ecosystem that depend on SLA will be out of synch with slaves, too, like the aroused idles and such.  That seems like a significant drawback.  What's the reason for duplicating this functionality instead of integrating with everything else?

So I believe the motivation for that decision was to make it so that SLA wasn't a hard requirement, and also there's the fact that literally every SL animation ends in an orgasm for all parties, which of course would be severely unbalanced considering the mod's current mechanisms. So the remaining options were to either incorporate SL Separate Orgasms fully as a hard requirement as well or make an internal arousal mechanic; the author favored staying away from having such a script intensive mod as a hard requirement. However there was talk of making an SLSO patch at some point, so that people who already use that mod could take advantage of it. I believe @DocClox thought it was possible some days ago. 

[DocClox]

4 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

So I believe the motivation for that decision was to make it so that SLA wasn't a hard requirement, and also there's the fact that literally every SL animation ends in an orgasm for all parties, which of course would be severely unbalanced considering the mod's current mechanisms. So the remaining options were to either incorporate SL Separate Orgasms fully as a hard requirement as well or make an internal arousal mechanic; the author favored staying away from having such a script intensive mod as a hard requirement. However there was talk of making an SLSO patch at some point, so that people who already use that mod could take advantage of it. I believe @DocClox thought it was possible some days ago. 

At the time, I hadn't realized that DoM used its own arousal and orgasm system. Knowing that, and having had a chance to think about it, I'm not sure that an SLSO patch would achieve anything worthwhile. @TrollAutokill suggested using it to train vaginal/oral/anal skills, but honestly, they are the least interesting aspect of orgasms.

 

What I had hoped to do was to call some DoM "slave has just had an orgasm" function, and let DoM apply the changes for that orgasm. Even if that I could do that (and assuming TAK was willing for me to do this), it's still going to seem a bit weird because of the disconnect between DoM's arousal state and the one used by SexLab.

 

Is the decision not to use SLA set in stone? I appreciate there's been a lot of code written based on that assumption.

[TrollAutokill]

31 minutes ago, DocClox said:

At the time, I hadn't realized that DoM used its own arousal and orgasm system. Knowing that, and having had a chance to think about it, I'm not sure that an SLSO patch would achieve anything worthwhile. @TrollAutokill suggested using it to train vaginal/oral/anal skills, but honestly, they are the least interesting aspect of orgasms.

 

What I had hoped to do was to call some DoM "slave has just had an orgasm" function, and let DoM apply the changes for that orgasm. Even if that I could do that (and assuming TAK was willing for me to do this), it's still going to seem a bit weird because of the disconnect between DoM's arousal state and the one used by SexLab.

 

Is the decision not to use SLA set in stone? I appreciate there's been a lot of code written based on that assumption.

 

The decision was to treat them differently. Sexlab orgasms being consensual and purely physical arousal and DoM orgasms being forced and personality dependent.

 

There is of course a connection between the two. My idea was to use arousal from Sexlab as one of the factor into triggering DoM orgasms and then DoM would call a function to trigger the Sexlab orgasm. This would allow DoM to use all the SL machinery without having to recode all the reasons for arousal.

 

Ideally for this interface we would need:

  - A call to DoM after an arousal event (Sexlab, SLA or SLSO). Spectator, naked encounter, sex toys, sex... and when arousal decreases.

  - DoM would then manage its own arousal level for slaves based on personality and training.

  - DoM would call function to trigger SL orgasm

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[TrollAutokill]

6 hours ago, SleinJinn said:

I guess maybe it's because my PC is female,

 

It should not make any difference in PAHE and DoM, I tried to have the mod allow for MF, FM, FF and MM without discrimination. There might be a few missing gender aware dialogues. If you see some of them, report to me.

 

As for your slaves not falling in love, as I seem to record it was the start of this conversation, we need to debug that. Could you check a few things first:

 - What mood are the slaves (the ones not falling in love) ? Ask them what's their feelings and they should list it first: I am afraid, sad, ...

 - What mood do they move to if you punish them? Sometimes the shock/broken/inlove cascade this not start if you don't hit them with the whip. We might want to change  that and offer another option as requested by InsanityFactor.

 - How many times have the slaves been shocked and do you manage to shock them?

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[DocClox]

23 minutes ago, TrollAutokill said:

The decision was to treat them differently. Sexlab orgasms being consensual and purely physical arousal and DoM orgasms being forced and personality dependent.

 

Are SL orgasms purely consensual? Not in my game, but that may reflect my mod list. Certainly SLSO has the ability to restrict orgasm to consensual acts, or not.

 

I don't know if plain Sexlab has any such toggle, but I dug into the code fairly deeply when I was working on QAYL and I don't remember any restrictions based on consensuality. In fact half the job was to keep player arousal from resetting after a non-consensual encounter. Of course, that was a long time ago and codebases change over time, so maybe I'm just out of date.

 

 

23 minutes ago, TrollAutokill said:

Ideally for this interface we would need:

  - A call to DoM after an arousal event (Sexlab, SLA or SLSO). Spectator, naked encounter, sex toys, sex... and when arousal decreases.

  - DoM would then manage its own arousal level for slaves based on personality and training.

  - DoM would call function to trigger SL orgasm

 

I think there are mod events in SLA Redux for arousal changes. You could just register for the events, and no other action needed. That has the additional benefit that, since modevents are basically just strings, you keep your code decoupled from the arousal framework.

 

[TrollAutokill]

4 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

Are SL orgasms purely consensual? Not in my game, but that may reflect my mod list. Certainly SLSO has the ability to restrict orgasm to consensual acts, or not.

 

I don't know if plain Sexlab has any such toggle, but I dug into the code fairly deeply when I was working on QAYL and I don't remember any restrictions based on consensuality. In fact half the job was to keep player arousal from resetting after a non-consensual encounter. Of course, that was a long time ago and codebases change over time, so maybe I'm just out of date.

 

 

 

I think there are mod events in SLA Redux for arousal changes. You could just register for the events, and no other action needed. That has the additional benefit that, since modevents are basically just strings, you keep your code decoupled from the arousal framework.

 

You seems to know SLA quite well. Do you think it would be possible to,

 

- change arousal level from the events, according to personality traits? (the goal is to avoid orgasm to start unless DoM decides to)

- trigger an orgasm. Either by creating an event or calling a function?

 

 

 

[DocClox]

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

- change arousal level from the events, according to personality traits? (the goal is to avoid orgasm to start unless DoM decides to)

 

I'll have to check. I remember with QAYL there were some things I couldn't suppress and ended up re-applying the desired arousal level rather than stopping the orgasm itself. I don't know if the modevent carries the amount of arousal, but if it does it would be simple to mod it back again. Although you'd need some guard against being caught in a recursion loop.

 

Alternatively, SLSO has an MCM option to disable Sexlab orgasms entirely in favor of the SLSO ones, so probably the best approach is to do that up-front.

 

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

- trigger an orgasm. Either by creating an event or calling a function?

 

Doable, can't quite remember how, but I think there's a sexlab API call to handle the bookkeeping.

 

I'll have a look.

[TrollAutokill]

Version 2.0.8 is out with mood swing control and better handling of moods according to personality 

 

iIt is safe to upgrade from any 2.0.x. But you might not get the newest scripts as those are embedded in the save game. One way around would be to put them in hsh. Reboot pahe and get them back in.

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrollAutokill

[InsanityFactor]

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

Version 2.0.8 is out with mood swing control and better handling of moods according to personality 

 

iIt is safe to upgrade from any 2.0.x. But you might not get the newest scripts as those are embedded in the save game. One way around would be to put them in hsh. Reboot pahe and get them back in.

I upgraded to 2.0.7 yesterday and one thing I noticed was slaves are now constantly chattering to themselves and triggering the 'was not respectful' notification in the widgets. That wasn't the case before so I thought I'd make you aware of that little quirk if it wasn't intentional. Previously, the slaves would be angry, say something not respectful at least once, and then stay that way without any further updates until I went to train them.

 

The thing is that I have 16 slaves in those cages I've shown and the left side of my screen is now constantly full of 'was not respectful' in every color of the rainbow, I'm also noticing that there are indeed subtitles for them and the slaves are in fact saying things disrespectful, but this wasn't the case in 2.0.1. They would be silent unless I directly talked to them, now they just constantly spew out pejoratives, even when I'm on the other side of the house. Any ideas on what's going on?

 

UPDATE: Turning off 'feelings in topics' did turn off the random topics but the 'was not respectful' things keep popping up even without them. If I understand what's going on here maybe you can make it so when 'was_not_respectful' is a punishment reason it can no longer be triggered again until it's been punished? It's also possible I just have a bug from updating so idk...

Edited November 5, 2021 by InsanityFactor