toys Toys&Love LE & SE

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

@VirginMarie

 

So, I've tested and played fairly thoroughly with DD mods / Toys, so assess how well they play together, as I said I would do a few weeks back (or was it last week, I don't know, I'm old and concept of time becomes irrelevant after a certain age lol). The results, unfortunately, are not as good I would have hoped. While there are ways to make some mods work alongside Toys, for the most part, many will actually break Toys' quests / events at some point. Even when trying to adjust MCM options in the mods, there are too many variables that impact, especially arousal values. And believe me, I played with arousal values quite a bit, but it's impossible to turn them completely off, which if I did anyway, would pretty much affect Toys negatively as well.

 

The overall assessment, is that, any mod that uses DD assets in any way, where they remove / add DD items, or use events will call DD items, cannot be used. But if a mod does not use any kind of "call" events on the player, for any reason, these can play nicely. The same kind of impact some ZaZ mods as well, but only if the mod uses both ZaZ and DD for "call" type events.

 

Devious Devices, on its own, is ok. Since it's just the framework on its own, it's perfectly fine. And oddly enough, the animation filter issue (which pretty much inspired Toys lol), worked quite well with Toys restraints on. This actually surprised me, as I expected the opposite, to be honest. Other mods which use DD items decoratively, also had positive results. Mods such as Hydragon's Slavegirls, Better NPC support for DD, Devious Statues, Ambient Slaves, all worked nicely since they were all visual and didn't impact the gameplay or the PC.

 

Other mods such as Deviously Enslaved, Devious Framework, Cursed Loot, Devious Followers/ Lola, Sanguine Debauchery, for example, have too many events which totally break Toys, and cannot be used in any way, alongside Toys. The only option would be to disable these mods before loading the game, or creating a separate profile in MO2 (or Vortex). I tired everything I could in the MCM's to make them work, and the only solution is to disable them before loading the game, so they're not in the load order at all.

 

Some other mods, such as Naked Defeat, Captured Dreams, Devious Guards, Devious Cidhna, SexLab Stories, SLUTS, Chain Beasts, Deviously Pink, Laura's Bondage, DDEquip, Public Whore, can be used, provided that their events don't overlap each other. Once there is a direct conflict, it will be break the quests or events of either one. so as long as they don't manifest during one of the quests events, they can work alongside in the load order. some of them can be a bit tricky to set MCM options, but they can work. They just require a bit more management and awareness during the gameplay, to ensure they play nicely and don't intrude.

 

These are the only ones I did test, as I didn't and don't use any type of creature mods / gameplay, and other mods such as Devious Mimics, Enchanted Chests, treasure hunting whore (for example), I don't use in my gameplay, so were not tested, but based on what i found, I could easily asses any other mod and it's impact, if given a list.

 

That's pretty much about it.

 

I'm creating a new profile now, to be able to use Toys in a gameplay, and a separate profile for DD, as I do and did enjoy Toys very much. I don't like to create profiles, but in this case, I enjoyed it enough to justify doing so. So on that note, I thank you for creating something refreshingly new while being true to the old at the same time. I followed this from before its inception, and I am glad I waited. THIS was well worth the wait

 

 

Thanks is good info.

 

If you were to make a trimmed down, simplified version of this post, I'd post in, on Tips & Tricks. It could be 2 lists... mods that work alongside ok, in your opinion, and ones that don't. A disclaimer that it's just what you tested sufficiently. Mentioning that the infamous Animation Filter does not screw things over, is good  .

 

I think if you are going to say they don't work, saying any that use "call" events on the player, is not easy to understand (I don't know what you mean... maybe where animations play?). Instead, give a few examples of the specific interaction that can happen, and the reader can decide whether or not they would consider it breaking.

 

[VirginMarie]

Patch Released

 

This will not be needed by most people. If you don't have the issue, ignore it.

 

If the Toys MCM, or any MCM, does not show up on a new game, use the steps in Troubleshooting #4.  <--- updated with an available patch

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by VirginMarie

[YojimboRatchet]

2 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

I think if you are going to say they don't work, saying any that use "call" events on the player, is not easy to understand (I don't know what you mean... maybe where animations play?). Instead, give a few examples of the specific interaction that can happen, and the reader can decide whether or not they would consider it breaking.

 

Ah, yes I see. I didn't think of that when I wrote this, and I was still in the process of waking up with my first coffee lol.

 

What I meant by these "calls" was simply, when a mod triggers a "call" to either add or remove DD / ZaZ restraints, and not animations. Any Toys restraints get removed, or combined with DD ones in some cases (yes at one point I had a Toys gag, a DD chastity belt and a Zaz set of cuffs on me.. it made a mess of things lol)

[VirginMarie]

31 minutes ago, YojimboRatchet said:

Toys restraints get removed

 

So the only problem you found is that toys get removed. This is good news.

 

This is expected and documented in the Mod Conflicts, and an FAQ which points to Tips & Tricks. Toys will not remove DDs, but DD will remove toys. DD is not Toys aware. Toys IS DD aware and that's built into its API such that mod authors don't need to do anything.

 

Any DD mod that does lots of equipping will be touch and go, IF, and only IF, a toys quest can break by losing that toy. No Toys content mod thus far, to my knowledge, will actually break. You'd want to put, for example DCL on pause, when focusing on a Toys quest.

 

Sure its annoying, or ruining the lore of the quest. if you can't manage it through DD MCMs. This is the price you pay if you choose to run the mods together. Plenty of DD Mods end up taking other DDs off that are placed on by other mods, since they are not quest DDs. You do not need Toys installed to have that happen. Same goes for Toys, where most are not quest toys, thus its fine to remove them.

 

I think what makes a mod un-suited to be used with Toys, is where there is a bad interaction beyond "toys get removed". But it depends on personal opinion on what you tolerate, and what you like.

 

If you wanted to make a write-up on your findings for me to use it perhaps it could be 3 lists...

- Mods that work nicely because they rarely remove toys, if ever

- Mods that are not so fitting because they remove toys often and the MCM can't be adjusted to prevent this

- Mods that have bad interactions with toys, beyond just removing them <--- we have nothing found for this list... yet

Edited October 4, 2021 by VirginMarie

[YojimboRatchet]

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Mods that have bad interactions with toys, beyond just removing them <--- we have nothing found for this list... yet

 

you do actually. the 4 or 5 i listed earlier with the "calls", it goes much deeper than this. the calls being made are usually part of some kind of approach scenario, like rape, enslavement, traps (DCL chest traps totally broke Bardal in ways i can't even begin to explain lol).. but I will send you a full list in detail in the next day or two. Pulled my back earlier today, so I am a bit limited in mobility right now.

[VirginMarie]

16 minutes ago, YojimboRatchet said:

you do actually. the 4 or 5 i listed earlier with the "calls", it goes much deeper than this. the calls being made are usually part of some kind of approach scenario, like rape, enslavement, traps (DCL chest traps totally broke Bardal in ways i can't even begin to explain lol).. but I will send you a full list in detail in the next day or two. Pulled my back earlier today, so I am a bit limited in mobility right now.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, approach scenarios have nothing to do with toys worn. Put it this way... You say DCL is breaking Bardal scenes, which does not surprise me... what has this got to do with Toys? I'd expect that if Bardal used DDs instead of toys, the same would happen.

[Krynn]

With me, the mouth does not stay open when I am gagged.
So in the LE version.
Did I overread something in the descriptions?

[VirginMarie]

11 minutes ago, Krynn said:

With me, the mouth does not stay open when I am gagged.
So in the LE version.

 

I don't know if this means you are using LE, so I will answer for both.

 

LE - Gag mouth wide open should be working. Nothing extra to install

SE - You would need to have installed MfgFix and Racemenu. Its in the instructions

 

If you have a mod that changes the head, there could be a conflict preventing it. Toys MCM, Effects Tab, lets you adjust the size of the mouth opening, it might help, you could try it at max of 100 first.

 

For further help, I'd need to see your papyrus log. There's a "how to get the log" in the FAQs if you need it. We need a log for a game session where you start the game, load a save, equip a gag, then exit to desktop, and grab that log to attach here.

[Krynn]

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

I don't know if this means you are using LE, so I will answer for both.

 

LE - Gag mouth wide open should be working. Nothing extra to install

SE - You would need to have installed MfgFix and Racemenu. Its in the instructions

 

If you have a mod that changes the head, there could be a conflict preventing it. Toys MCM, Effects Tab, lets you adjust the size of the mouth opening, it might help, you could try it at max of 100 first.

 

For further help, I'd need to see your papyrus log. There's a "how to get the log" in the FAQs if you need it. We need a log for a game session where you start the game, load a save, equip a gag, then exit to desktop, and grab that log to attach here.

 

Sorry, my English is not that great.
Yes, I meant I play LE.
The DD gags actually all work, only with the Zaz versions I have the same problem that the mouth just closes with gag.

Thanks again for the detailed instructions, I'll post a log once I'm back in the game.

 

[YojimboRatchet]

12 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

If I'm understanding correctly, approach scenarios have nothing to do with toys worn. Put it this way... You say DCL is breaking Bardal scenes, which does not surprise me... what has this got to do with Toys? I'd expect that if Bardal used DDs instead of toys, the same would happen.

 

As I said, it's more complicated than this. I summed up the results for you as I said I would do originally. If you want full details on all the scenarios and scenes that happened, I'd be more than happy to send it to you. AS I also stated earlier, it's not just about Toys here, it's how things work together, or in this case, don't work together. When I mean "break", I don't necessarily mean CTD's, or fatal errors. I mean they break quests, they break scenarios. The Bardal example was just one example (of many...), as I was in the middle of part of one of the scenes from Bardal (a mod from the Toys family). When I opened a chest in the house where I'm supposed to be "caught" by the guards, DCL traps triggered, and attached restraints as per the trap. When the guards came in, one of the jumped my PC and raped her. and after the rape DEC kicked in, and the guard who raped me, "sold" me to a friend of his, and then SD+ kicked in and i was sent to a vampire den. You can kind of see how things go from here.. Bardal quest ends up broken and can't be resumed normally. I had slavers remove my toys restraints to attach DD ones through DFW, the list goes on and on.

 

The whole point here, is how / what can work / play nicely with Toys and what can't. That's all.

 

But I'll send you the list with some examples in a few days. Just need t type it up, but sitting right now is a bit painful for long periods of time. so it will be slow.

 

All I am doing is trying to help, by showing you my experiences in trying to make things work, with what can and can't work together, so that others, like me, who like both frameworks, can know beforehand, what to expect and how to make it work, thats' all

[VirginMarie]

 

3 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

All I am doing is trying to help, by showing you my experiences in trying to make things work, with what can and can't work together, so that others, like me, who like both frameworks, can know beforehand, what to expect and how to make it work, thats' all

 

This is good, and I appreciate it. All I'm trying to do help you do that.

 

3 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

The whole point here, is how / what can work / play nicely with Toys and what can't. That's all.

 

Since the focus is exactly that, as you have stated, I'm trying to help by pointing out where the issue is not related to the toy/device framework.

 

3 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

The Bardal example was just one example (of many...), as I was in the middle of part of one of the scenes from Bardal (a mod from the Toys family). When I opened a chest in the house where I'm supposed to be "caught" by the guards, DCL traps triggered, and attached restraints as per the trap. 

 

In this example, the issue is not related to the toy/device framework. It's between DCL and Bardal's only. Addressing it belongs on the Bardal's support thread and potentially Bardal's "mod conflicts" section. 

 

If Bardal's was using DD instead of toys, the exact same problem you described, would occur. See what I mean? You can't paint this as... "Toys content mods will have this problem with DCL".

 

So since its complex, I agree we should review the details and without making conclusions early.

Edited October 5, 2021 by VirginMarie

[alex77r4]

3 hours ago, YojimboRatchet said:

I mean they break quests, they break scenarios. The Bardal example was just one example (of many...), as I was in the middle of part of one of the scenes from Bardal (a mod from the Toys family). When I opened a chest in the house where I'm supposed to be "caught" by the guards, DCL traps triggered, and attached restraints as per the trap. When the guards came in, one of the jumped my PC and raped her. and after the rape DEC kicked in, and the guard who raped me, "sold" me to a friend of his, and then SD+ kicked in and i was sent to a vampire den. You can kind of see how things go from here.. Bardal quest ends up broken and can't be resumed normally. I had slavers remove my toys restraints to attach DD ones through DFW, the list goes on and on.

 

All that not have any relation whit Toys or whit any other mods. Some time ago I have exactly the same problem in a quest, i think from M'rissi, where i open a chest and DCL fire the trap and send my to a cave. The exact chest was in a special location, reachable only by a teleport, and can not be repeated in any way. That mean, the DCL trap completely break the quest and i'm be forced to load the saved game and disable DCL traps.

 

[VirginMarie]

42 minutes ago, alex77r4 said:

All that not have any relation whit Toys or whit any other mods. Some time ago I have exactly the same problem in a quest, i think from M'rissi, where i open a chest and DCL fire the trap and send my to a cave. The exact chest was in a special location, reachable only by a teleport, and can not be repeated in any way. That mean, the DCL trap completely break the quest and i'm be forced to load the saved game and disable DCL traps.

 

There are many examples, in many mods, where one mod can break another's scene. This example is an obvious example. When this happens its an interaction between the 2 mods doing the 2 conflicting scenes, not a framework issue (unless its the framework playing the breaking scene).

 

YojimboRatchet explained it well by summarizing it as "some kind of approach scenario, like rape, enslavement, traps".

 

I'd describe it as... any case where a scene starts, where player controls are locked, without checking to see if the player is already in a scene.

 

These are very hard to deal with, but there are ways. With DCL you can use specific DCL features to either check its scene busy status, or tell DCL that your mod now has a busy scene. Toys offers tools for scene management to make this easier, and for mods to have a way to check. Toys and Toys content mods that I've authored, use this, thus it would be hard for DCL traps to break their scenes, or for their scenes to break DCL.

Edited October 5, 2021 by VirginMarie

[alex77r4]

14 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

There are many examples, in many mods, where one mod can break another's scene.

 

That is not as so easy as you say. Any mod can verify a lot of things but the main problem is the timing of the verification, where are made and what verification are made. And, of course, depend of the exact mod, the exact situation, the different configurations of the mods and the different mods mixed in the same installation.

 

In the situation i'm relating, nothing except disable DCL works, because the simple task of open a chest to get a item (a special diary) and go to the side wall to activate a lever, was practically impossible with DCL traps enabled because, having full arousal, the trap is fired by DCL with a 100% security. The original mod not play any scene, simply teleport you to a special location with a chest and give you a lever to exit. Is not a problem of scene cross execution 

 

Maybe, if DCL verify the location of the chest can skip launch traps in special locations, but that only can save us when the mod use special locations. I think the last versions of DCL now make that verification, but when happen to me, was years ago, nothing except change the configuration in the MCM of DCL solve the problem.

 

[VirginMarie]

The update just now.... was just text on the main page, mentioning the patch that was released earlier this past week. There's nothing new today.

 

If the Toys MCM, or any MCM, does not show up on a new game, use the steps in Troubleshooting #4.  <--- updated with an available patch.

 

 

But now that you are here... If you are interested in innocent Halloween content, check out...

The Day of Tales and Tallows is Near here.

Edited October 9, 2021 by VirginMarie

[gender65]

Can you add an option to enable/disable the MSM for undressing the main armor\ clothing when equipping any device, regardless of its properties? I really want to use your mod, it's cool, but due to the fact that there is no automatic undressing, I have to use another "Deviously Enchanted Chests", and your mod is more interesting.

[Marajade]

This mod seems to be working for me, except that I don't need keys to take off the restraints. The 'exotic bra' I have says it needs a 'tiny exotic key' to unlock, but I can unequip it normally from my inventory even without the key.

 

Edit: All toys can be unequipped at will. Their description says that they require keys. Is this a big or is there a setting somewhere I need to change?

Edited October 10, 2021 by Marajade

[VirginMarie]

7 hours ago, gender65 said:

Can you add an option to enable/disable the MSM for undressing the main armor\ clothing when equipping any device, regardless of its properties? I really want to use your mod, it's cool, but due to the fact that there is no automatic undressing, I have to use another "Deviously Enchanted Chests", and your mod is more interesting.

 

Is MSM meant to be MCM or something else? Ether way, I don't understand the request.

 

You want the equipping of any toy, to strip main armor?  An option to turn this on in MCM?

 

If yes, there are some specific toys that strip, some strip on delay, some immediately, but most don't. The choice is up to the mod author making the toy, thus if a content mod wants to do this, they certainly can.

[VirginMarie]

41 minutes ago, Marajade said:

This mod seems to be working for me, except that I don't need keys to take off the restraints. The 'exotic bra' I have says it needs a 'tiny exotic key' to unlock, but I can unequip it normally from my inventory even without the key.

 

Edit: All toys can be unequipped at will. Their description says that they require keys. Is this a big or is there a setting somewhere I need to change?

 

Let's first check that the mod is working. I'd say it's not, thus we have a installation problem or corrupt save.

 

On the main page, install instructions, do step 7. This is to confirm the basics are all good. See the line below step 7 too, as I think its your issue. Let me know how this goes and what you see.

Edited October 10, 2021 by VirginMarie

[Marajade]

37 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Let's first check that the mod is working. I'd say it's not, thus we have a installation problem or corrupt save.

 

On the main page, install instructions, do step 7. This is to confirm the basics are all good. See the line below step 7 too, as I think its your issue. Let me know how this goes and what you see.

I think I figured it out. I'm using DCL too, and apparently if you have an armbinder Devious Device on it lets you take off toys for free. Once I took the armbinder off everything worked normally.

[VirginMarie]

35 minutes ago, Marajade said:

I think I figured it out. I'm using DCL too, and apparently if you have an armbinder Devious Device on it lets you take off toys for free. Once I took the armbinder off everything worked normally.

 

Not correct behavior. Need to rule out installation issue first...

1. What happens when you do step 7 (the Toys MCM, Installation test)?
2. Can you see a Toys MCM?
3. Also can you confirm you started a new game after adding Toys? This is the requirement

[Marajade]

8 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Not correct behavior. Need to rule out installation issue first...

1. What happens when you do step 7 (the Toys MCM, Installation test)?
2. Can you see a Toys MCM?
3. Also can you confirm you started a new game after adding Toys? This is the requirement

 

The test says it completed correctly. I can see a Toys MCM, I started a new game too. All of the toys seem to work properly in every other case, though I haven't tested it much.

[mercplatypus]

11 hours ago, gender65 said:

Can you add an option to enable/disable the MSM for undressing the main armor\ clothing when equipping any device, regardless of its properties? I really want to use your mod, it's cool, but due to the fact that there is no automatic undressing, I have to use another "Deviously Enchanted Chests", and your mod is more interesting.

 

If you are referring to getting stripped literally any time a toy is equipped on you, including when you equip it on yourself, that would be something that a content author would do instead of the framework.

 

If you are using Toyful Temptations by Scrab and want that mod to have that feature every time you get a Toy from it.  I assume you have it as it is the closest mod to Deviously Enchanted Chests that we have in the Toys family of mods.

 

 

[Scrab]

23 minutes ago, mercplatypus said:

If you are referring to getting stripped literally any time a toy is equipped on you, including when you equip it on yourself, that would be something that a content author would do instead of the framework.

 

If you are using Toyful Temptations by Scrab and want that mod to have that feature every time you get a Toy from it.  I assume you have it as it is the closest mod to Deviously Enchanted Chests that we have in the Toys family of mods.

Dont think it does it rn but its on my todo list for when I get back to TT

[VirginMarie]

3 hours ago, Marajade said:

 

The test says it completed correctly. I can see a Toys MCM, I started a new game too. All of the toys seem to work properly in every other case, though I haven't tested it much.

 

Ok then it sounds like you are in good shape, and I will try to recreate what you described.

 

An armbinder from DD prevents equip/unequip of most things, thus it could be conflicting with Toys trying to prevent you from removing without a key, since for Toys to prevent you, it has to catch you trying and put it back on. Thank you for reporting it.

Edited October 10, 2021 by VirginMarie