toys Toys&Love LE & SE

[VirginMarie]

Toys&Love LE

View File

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3 Frameworks in 1... Bondage, Love Scenes, and Rousing.

 

 What's New  Furniture Love & more - see Change Log 

Toys Discord   SE Page   LE & SE Support

 

New Furniture Love Video   Furniture Love FAQs

 

Bondage Video

Toys&Love v2.62 for LE   3 Frameworks in 1... Bondage, Love Scenes, and Rousing

Skyrim. Land of the Nords, birthplace of Tiber Septim. It is a harsh land, shrouded in bitter cold and ancient mystery. A land of adventure where mead is consumed with the songs and stories of heroes and legends. A land where many come to find their fortune, themselves or their destiny.

 

Skyrim is also the home of more exotic mysteries spoken of in hushed tones throughout the empire. Mysteries involving strange acts in bedrooms and brothels using the most intriguing contraptions that are never spoken of in polite company. These Toys, as the locals call them, have seen a resurgence in popularity during the recent turbulent times and just may be the real answer to how the Nords really stay warm in the frozen northlands...

 

 Overview

Toys&Love is three Frameworks in one... Bondage, Love Scenes, and Rousing. These are tightly integrated.
Bondage - Equips toys from Toy Boxes, with numerous effects and escape methods.
Love Scenes - Plays scenes using animations from Love Packs and the widely available SLAL Animation Packs. A complete alternative to other animation frameworks.
Rousing - Tracks rousing level, triggering Spontaneous Orgasms, effects on toys, and climax during love scenes. Fondle to increase rousing, or deny to stop from losing it. Overuse will cause you to become oversexed making this harder. Achieve Simultaneous Orgasm and manage beneficial effects that scale to rousing.

 

All of the above can be accessed by mods with easy-to-use API.

See Mod Author Documentation

 

 Feature Summary - Complete Outline of Features

• Love Scenes, Orgies, & Furniture Love
• Toy Effects with animations (binding, exhausted, signing etc.)
• Use... Toy Boxes / Love Packs / SLAL Animation Packs / Music Packs / LoveCum Packs
• Rousing, Fondle, Caressing, Denial, Oversexed
• Spontaneous Orgasm & Simultaneous Orgasm
• Effects, Buffs & Debuffs
• Toy Transformation, visually & functionally
• Escape Methods / Keys
• 30+ Voices in Love Scenes 
• Voice In My Head (text widget)
• Extensive, but easy-to-use, API for mods

 Toy Boxes  - Tox Boxes

Insignia, Ancient, & Chaotic Toy Boxes are included with Toys&Love

Install the optional Classic Toy Box or Sanguine's Toy Box of Orgies

 

Other Toy Boxes are listed here

 

 Packs

Love Packs (supports SLAL Packs) - Love Packs

The Toys Love Pack is included with Toys&Love

Recommend installing the Toys Starter LovePack, Toys Furniture LovePack and some SLAL Packs

All Love Packs and SLAL Animation Packs are listed here

 

Music Packs - Music Packs

No music pack is included with with Toys&Love

Install optional MusicPacks

 

LoveCum Packs - LoveCum Packs

The Original LoveCum Pack is included with Toys&Love

 

 Toy Story - Toy Story

Toy Story is a companion Quest mod for Toys&Love

Toy Story teaches and is also a demonstration for mod authors

 

 WildLife  - WildLife

The optional WildLife mod is required to enable creatures in Toys&Love Love Scenes

 

 Covenants  - Full List of Covenants

Our promises to mod authors and users

 

 Requirements & Installation

See the details...

Spoiler

For SE, go HERE

Toys&Love Tips

Love FAQs

 

Requirements

• FNIS LE 7.6+ must Generate FNIS for Users & "Update FNIS Behavior", anytime you add, upgrade, or remove this mod
• SKSE, SkyUI LE,  PapyrusUtil LE,  Racemenu LE, JContainers LE, Mfg Console
  • Toys&Love does not care about Skyrim/SKSE version, but utilities do. See... SE versus AE Version Trap
• Love Packs - Get at least one. Toys Starter Love Pack recommended. SLAL Packs are compatible. See Toys Love Packs
  • Some SLAL Packs needlessly require Sexlab. Want to run without SL?... Solution in... SLAL Animation Packs FAQs 
• Body Mods
  • Female player... Bodyslide and HDT Physics Extensions. Must use either the Unified UNP HDT body or CBBE Body HDT See Details in Building toys in Bodyslide
  • non-standard skeletons cause alignment issues for animations. Use XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended
  • Male player... the vanilla/SOS body is supported. Not tested with other male bodies
• Toys Bodyslide Package for your body - Download and install it, in addition to the main mod file

A new game is required if installing Toys for the first time. Do I really need to start a new game?

 

Optional

• For Creatures in Love Scenes, WildLife is required
• Toy Boxes such as Classic Toy Box or Sanguine's Toy Box of Orgies. See Toy Boxes for more available
• Love Packs. Recommend installing the Toys Starter LovePack, Toys Furniture LovePack and some SLAL Packs
• Music Packs. Both recommended... Music Packs
• LoveCum Packs. Original is included with Toys&Love... LoveCum Packs
• Toyful Temptations is recommended so you can find keys & toys. Some find this mod essential
• Quest Mods such as Toy Story are needed to put Toys&Love to use.  See Toys Family of Mods for what's available
• Voice Pack by Dr. John Zoidberg

Toys&Love - Tips

 

Installation

1. Make sure you've installed the Requirements listed above
2. Download the Toys Framework file from this page, AND the appropriate Bodyslide package
3. Use Generate FNIS for Users and "Update FNIS Behavior". Watch for errors! They must be fixed
4. Build toys with Bodyslide. See Building toys in Bodyslide. One of the most common mistakes is not getting this step right
5. Install optional mods from the section above
6. Check for Known Mod Conflicts
7. Don't break the Golden Rule - don't corrupt your save
8. IMPORTANT: Once in game use this mod's MCM option "Run Installation Test" on the first tab
   • Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed. There is no point in proceeding if this test fails

FNIS reports Duplicates in Consistence Check

 

 Helpful inks

Toys Family of Mods - Listing of mods & resources for Toys&Love

Toys&Love - Tips

Toys Features

Toyful Temptations - recommended. Find keys & toys. Some find this mod essential

Toy Story - Quest Mod 

 

Love Scenes:

• Love FAQs
• SLAL Animation Packs FAQs
• Furniture Love FAQs
• How to Achieve Simultaneous Orgasm?

Help:

• FAQs and Troubleshooting
• Golden Rule
• Steps to fix if the test in MCM failed
• Known Mod Conflicts
• Building toys in Bodyslide
• Mod Author Documentation
• Change Log

 Credits & Permissions

The Toys Team

Mercplatypus - Story & Dialogue / VirginMarie - Scripting / Audhol - Toy Creation / Slappa - Animations

 

Full List of Credits...

Spoiler

Ashal - For running this site & inspiring many of the Love Scene features. We did not copy Sexlab, but we learned tons from Sexlab
Fore - FNIS Mod
The core utility mod authors that make this possible - SKSE, SkyUI LE,  PapyrusUtil LE,  Racemenu LE, JContainers LE, Mfg Console

 

Audhol - Models & Bodyslide setup for the majority of the Insignia Set of Toys, made custom for Toys. Animations for Blind and some of the hard core arm binding animations. Bodyslide setup for all 3 SE packages

Mercplatypus - Toy Story Design/Dialogue/Feature planning

Slappa - "Toy used in scene", and some fondle animations

 

Gregaaz, Yanjunsun, Bratty Cheeks (RMCW), Beef Cheeks - Beta Test Contributors

 

Zadil - Models for the complete Classic Set of Toys, originally in DDa

Xaz & Zaz - Models for the majority of the Chaotic Set of Toys, originally in ZAP 7

Hæretic - Models for the majority of the Ancient Set of Toys, originally in Hæretic Resources

 

Billyy, Leito, FunnyBiz, Anub, Nibbles, Milky, Ayasato  - SLAL Animation Pack resources

All the SLAL Animation Authors - Thanks to you all. Those we've used in Love packs are listed above

MaikCG - Animations for hard core arm binding, yoke binding, and combat kicking

DarkAngel1265 - Animations for Crawling from Crawl on fours

0r080r0 - Animations for Sprinting from Khajiit Cat Sprint and Sneak

 

Gray User - Sounds - NSFW Sound Pack

Sunspotz - Vanilla NPC Voices (moans & orgasm sounds)

JimmyJimJim - Various female moans & orgasm sounds

tooli3d & Vacaliga - LoveCum Pack textures

 

Zaria - Model for Chastity Piercing

El_Duderino - Model for Pony Gag

Angeli - Model for Workout Plugs from Angeli Devious Expansion

Aradia - Model for Full Harness

 

Lupine00, Scarb, Zaira - Scripting techniques shared
Seansoken - Logo artwork

Durpledore - some of the Bodyslide Setup

 

Permissions

Spoiler

Permissions:

1. You can NOT post this mod or any of its parts (including any derived works) without explicit permission
2. You can NOT incorporate any of the code in any for-profit project
3. You can NOT use any of the code in a closed source project
4. You CAN otherwise use the code for your own projects as long as you include all source code with your distribution and allow others to use your own code in a similar fashion and give credit with link
5. Permission for assets listed with authors in credits, require that you obtain your own permission from the author

 

 

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• Submitter
  VirginMarie
• Submitted
  01/30/2021
• Category
  Framework & Resources
• Requires
  FNIS
• Special Edition Compatible
  Yes

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

   Hey! Where did all the Help Posts go?.... A new site: Toys Family of Mods

Edited February 17, 2022 by VirginMarie

[VirginMarie]

<reserved>

Edited December 8, 2022 by VirginMarie

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

Now this looks very promising

[Aki K]

This looks cool. I look forward to seeing how it progresses.

[Lupine00]

Obviously, very exciting and interesting!

So many questions right now...

 

 

I'll trim it down to this:

 

• Does Toys use the double item pattern of DD, or single items?
   
• Is the performance intended to be better? Or about the same?
   
• Are any problems anticipated with race conditions on equip (which DD has historically been blighted by) or does it have a design that means equips are intrinsically atomic?
   
• Is there an animation filter that will work for people who don't use DD at all?

 

I'm guessing that if a DD-centric mod wants to use this, it can do its own checks for Toys being present before it equips any DDs? While this will obviously be non-atomic, is there a locking mechanism in Toys we could hook into? Perhaps an equip wrapper in Toys that will perform the DD-equip so that it won't get into a race equipping DDs with a Toy equip?

 

Put another way, do you have any helper or example for how a DD equip can be done in a toy-safe way?

 

 

Something that allowed existing DD-mods to add their own Toy-compatibility without forcing a user to install Toys would be super-helpful.

e.g. a script file, or even an ESP we can merge into our own with injected forms.

 

 

If that's not a "thing" at this early stage - perfectly reasonable - is it impossible that such a thing might be added soonish?

 

 

My thoughts right now are:

1) make DF "toy safe".

2) maybe add some toys later, if I think they are fun, once I know what they do.

3) support toy detection in SLD if it makes any sense to do so.

 

1+2 would probably be wrapped up with moving DF to DD5, so probably weeks or months away still.

[Clea Strange]

I will definitely be keeping an eye on this and wait for it to progress more.

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

• Does Toys use the double item pattern of DD, or single items?

Single. No chance of broken/hidden device syndrome.

 

Quote

• Is the performance intended to be better? Or about the same?

Faster overall. And it is from what I can tell, not that I've scientifically measured

Equip is not much faster because its actually limited to how long Skyrim takes to render. Only could speed that up if I used threads for parallel stuff. Seems overkill. Unequip is very fast. Swapping about the same. In all cases Toys does lots of checking to "play nice" with other mods which is automatic and built in, your mod does not have to manage this at all. 

 

Quote

• Are any problems anticipated with race conditions on equip (which DD has historically been blighted by) or does it have a design that means equips are intrinsically atomic?

Race conditions are not permitted, its all protected with mutex.

 

Quote

• Is there an animation filter that will work for people who don't use DD at all?

No animation filter. I have plans for alternatives to animation filter for after V1, but there will never ever be a forced animation filter, or any form of interrupting a sexlab scene. Also, if DD is in use, its animation filter is only going to work for devices not toys. If you wear only Toys toys, then there will be no filter even if DD is installed, which is a good thing.

 

Quote

I'm guessing that if a DD-centric mod wants to use this, it can do its own checks for Toys being present before it equips any DDs?

Checking for Toys present is actually very easy, there's a registry of what's currently worn sitting right in memory, almost literally. But Why would a mod want to equip both DD and Toys at the same time? I can't say I've not considered that possibility, but I'm not imagining this as a common use case. Either you are going to want to use Toys for all your needs, or not. Not the case? 

 

Quote

Put another way, do you have any helper or example for how a DD equip can be done in a toy-safe way?

I've not come far enough down the path to know how to deal with DD fully yet, as in what's possible. Currently Toys plays nice with DD. Won't remove its stuff. But I've not tested enough to know to what extent DD clobbers toys, I just know it does, and its not its fault. I know it does unequip them but not when or why exactly. Should Toys, for V1, try to deal with DD at all? I don't know yet. Its going to depend on feedback. 

 

I think the big question here is will people want to create mods that support both Toys and DD at the same time? Or will it be use one or the other only. For me SLaV is making a clean break from using DD at all.

 

Quote

Something that allowed existing DD-mods to add their own Toy-compatibility without forcing a user to install Toys would be super-helpful.

e.g. a script file, or even an ESP we can merge into our own with injected forms.

So you mean a soft dependency method of using Toys API, essentially? Trying to see the use case. Seems your questions are focused on mods being able to use both DD and Toys at the same time. 

 

Quote

If that's not a "thing" at this early stage - perfectly reasonable - is it impossible that such a thing might be added soonish?

If its what I said above, sounds difficult but its a matter of priority for what people want to see in V1

 

 

[Lupine00]

33 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

. Either you are going to want to use Toys for all your needs, or not. Not the case? 

Not.

Simply because converting all the DD equips and items is a big chore, but adding in some new Toys items might still be desirable.

 

DD items would be legacy and Toys would be for new functionality. Possibly, players could choose not to install Toys and still have a working mod, but with some features turned off, or replaced with a less featureful item.

 

e.g. Blindfolds, if Toys not present, you can have a DD one, as they're both blindfolds - gameplay obviously different though.

 

 

 

Random aside triggered by above example:

I quite like DD blindfolding in the mode where you can't move in third person and are blurred/fogged in first person, but as you know, there's no accounting for taste.

Not to say I wouldn't love to be able to actually move in third-person with some kind of stumble/grope animation.

But in first-person, having my game made near unplayable is the win!

 

 

 

The problem we're up against here is animation limits. DD has eaten so many, and Zap 8 has another great big bite, so maybe having DD and Toys in at once is not feasible unless the animations are genuinely shared a lot of the time. Is that the case, or is it a lot of new animations?

 

And I don't even want to think what Zap9 thinks it's going to do, if it appears as a real release.

 

Recently, I installed KuNeruNomu and found it has absolutely outrageous animation requirements.

I had to dump most of my sex animations to get it in. Clearly, I won't be sticking with it for long.

And that wasn't a sexlab limit, but a simple animation limit.

 

But animations is probably the limiting factor.

Unless we all move off FNIS ... which is maybe feasible ... but that Nemesis path is not easy for users right now, as far as I know.

 

So, I can understand if it's just stupidly impractical to try and have DD and Toys installed in a game at once.

[VirginMarie]

4 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

converting all the DD equips and items is a big chore, but adding in some new Toys items might still be desirable.

 

If DD is not aware of Toys, and Toys struggles to be aware of DD (which is the case currently), then trying to compensate would be more work than just converting over 100% I think. So my goal is making it possible to do so, making sure you have all that you need to do so.

 

I can think through this and look at what options there are. To make it easy, I'd want the checks that are built in, that currently check for toys equipped by another mod, to also do the same for devices (i.e. detect a DD item too). But you'd still be on your own checking on DD's behalf.

 

The use case I was contemplating is a mod that caters to handling toys/devices, and that's its main purpose, like a bondage shop that wants to sell from both.

 

Effort to switch might be less than you think. If its mostly about converting the devices into toys, check out the Making Toys / Handling Toys / API on the Features post, it gives the steps. I make new toys in 10minutes per toy, or faster.

 

20 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Not to say I wouldn't love to be able to actually move in third-person with some kind of stumble/grope animation.

 

Not sure if you read this on the features page, but that's the current plan for blindfolds in Toys. We might include some other mode too but keeping it simple.

[VirginMarie]

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

unless the animations are genuinely shared a lot of the time. Is that the case, or is it a lot of new animations?

Can't share animations because Toys must be able to work when there is no DD. And FNIS offers no way to auto share if they are the same, in fact you need to name them differently.

 

Now that said, Toys has a very light Animation foot print right now. I only see adding what would amount to 1.5X of what there is now. It just needs more alternate animations for yokes and blindfolds.

 

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

but that Nemesis path is not easy for users right now, as far as I know

Last I heard Nemesis will be fine but does not yet support Alternate Animations so its not capable.

 

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

So, I can understand if it's just stupidly impractical to try and have DD and Toys installed in a game at once.

To me its the other things I've already said. If making a switch, get the full benefit and do a clean break away, or not at all. But I kinda view life that way for all things.

 

Choosing to use both frameworks at the same time needs to have a big reason for it to pay off, because it would be like sticking 2 engines in your car, that work very differently, when only one of them is needed. Why buy a Hybrid, when you can get a Tesla?

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

To me its the other things I've already said. If making a switch, get the full benefit and do a clean break away, or not at all. But I kinda view life that way for all things.

Do I understand that "clean break away" correctly in that you're suggesting that users will ideally have to do a 100% Toys only playthrough, or a 100% DD-only playthrough, depending on what mod(s) they want to play with? That, if I'm assuming correctly indeed, is going to cause major concerns for many players. It would be like Maria Eden all over again -- and a lot of heartbreak when putting together the load order and deciding which mod is "in" and which is "out".

 

2 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

No animation filter. I have plans for alternatives to animation filter for after V1, but there will never ever be a forced animation filter, or any form of interrupting a sexlab scene.

Sorry if I may be thick here, but how does that work with the chastity gear included in the mod? Will NPCs just stick their dicks through them if I'm wearing one?

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Not sure if you read this on the features page, but that's the current plan for blindfolds in Toys. We might include some other mode too but keeping it simple.

I did, and I was supporting that.

 

 

  

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Last I heard Nemesis will be fine but does not yet support Alternate Animations so its not capable.

My point was that Nemesis is not at the point where users just download something from Nexus and it works.

If it's not on LL or Nexus, that is obstacle number one. (I know there is a mod on Nexus https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/101371 but it's a long way behind the GitHub).

If it requires you to build it from source ... which it effectively does right now ... that cuts out a huge number of users.

I'm optimistic about Nemesis, but we're still a long way from the end of FNIS, unfortunately.

 

 

  

2 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

that you're suggesting that users will ideally have to do a 100% Toys only playthrough

 

I think it's clear that *have to* was not what was being said.

I believe some compatibility is present and some further compatibility may be added?

 

But whether it's practical to have both is uncertain.

My guess is that if you have the animation sets from both in, it's going to be touch-and-go whether you can get Zap8 in there, and if you can fit them, you simply won't have enough allowance left for all the animations you'd need for Slaverun, or Things in the Dark, or even KuNeruNomu.

 

That might be jumping the gun though. I guess I'll wait to see how it works out.

 

 

As a modder, whether Toys is more attractive to me is based on a combination of factors.

 

One area that has bothered me constantly with DD is the sloppy ad-hoc keyword design that means detecting whether a character is actually capable of having sex at all, or exactly which holes are open, is rather complex and cannot be handled using simple dialog conditions.

 

There's also the issue that DF ran aground on with respect to "block generic" and "quest" items.

The dialog condition can detect those things are present, but not that *other* items are present because there is no "non-quest" and no "non-block-generic" keyword to mirror the "quest" and "block-generic" keywords.

 

DD didn't plan ahead for these issues - arguably couldn't anticipate the needs of mods - but NOW we know the needs of mods. It's no mystery. DD hasn't cleaned up the keyword situation, so the problem marches on.

 

And then there was the recent "manipulate devices" thing. Toys has no exact equivalent it seems, but a mod can transform an item that is just removable into one that requires a key dynamically. I don't think the player can do that immersively though?

 

I wouldn't mind a clear "from the start" model of devices that are locked or not locked. So you could wear cuffs and have them not be locked, and add a lock to make them be locked.

 

The lock would be conceptually separate, and so could be an easy lock or a hard lock on the same cuffs, etc. 

 

I don't want that for "simulation" but some people would, but it would mean less devices overall because instead of making cuffs and then having dozens of variants with different lock mechanics, there only needs to one set of cuffs, that matches the model, and then a bunch of locks - and those locks could be used on gloves, or a collar, or a chain, etc.

 

So the total number of entities is ultimately reduced, and functionality expanded.

 

I think the Toys locking is based on dynamic property setting, so you can swap it any time, and that could support a separate lock mechanic as exposed to players. The lock is then just a way for the player to set the property, or to interact with the device when trying to remove it.

[kziitd]

The emergence of new things is always positive for a 2011 game.

But I still want to say that from the introduction of the pictures. Some of your items don't seem to have a good match for the bone weight of the characters, such as the rope, which has a rather exaggerated deformation.

Maybe you need someone who is very experienced in BS to make props.

[audhol]

You might want to change the wording for the insignia set as I did not create the belt, harness and chastity piercing that feature in the screenshots. Perhaps you could say some items by audhol?

[MonVert]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

But animations is probably the limiting factor.

Unless we all move off FNIS ... which is maybe feasible ... but that Nemesis path is not easy for users right now, as far as I know.

 

I'm curious as to how you are hitting the limits of FNIS XXL with just three mods. ? Unless you want to have DAR active while you have sex animations, but the DAR Limitation is not a game/FNIS limitation.

 

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If it requires you to build it from source

 

 

You can download the already compiled Nemesis from Github; you do not need to build it yourself.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, MonVert said:

I'm curious as to how you are hitting the limits of FNIS XXL with just three mods.

That isn't actually what I said, but if you want to discuss that topic, I don't believe it belongs here where it would just be noise.

[CheddarTrauma]

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Race conditions are not permitted, its all protected with mutex.

 

I'm interested, from a general scripting perspective, on the difference between using a Mutex vs a State.

In ToysHandler and ToysPlayerAlias you used a Mutex but a State would have (to my understanding) worked as well and would likely be faster.

 

Is this not the case?

Is there benefit to using one over the other or is using a Mutex for everything done for the sake of simplicity?

 

(When I speak of 'States' I mean:)

Spoiler

State Blocked
Event OnUnequipped(Actor ActorRef)
EndEvent
EndState

Event OnUnequipped(Actor ActorRef)
    GoToState("Blocked")
    DoStuff()
    GoToState("")
EndEvent

 

 

[VirginMarie]

6 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Do I understand that "clean break away" correctly in that you're suggesting that users will ideally have to do a 100% Toys only playthrough, or a 100% DD-only playthrough, depending on what mod(s) they want to play with?

No, that would indeed be bad. When I started the very first consideration was to make it able to run side by side with DD. This is a requirement and a reality.

 

What I mean by clean break away, is at the mod level, not the load order of a user. A mod might as well use just one or the other, unless there is a very good use case to set out to use both, knowing that it will be harder. Think of cars on the road, all initially with ICE (internal combustion engine) engines. Now along comes Hybrids (ICE and Electric both under the hood) and Teslas (electric only). I'm saying the Hybrids are ineffective and over complicated, you might as well get the Tesla. But Teslas are most certainly built to drive on the same roads as the ICE cars.

 

So Toys does need to make it easy to detect DD items occupying a slot in advance (right now Toys just fails and you react in your code by the return error). And do I need to find a way to prevent DD from removing toys, or some other solution? Yes. That's needed and planned for V1, but not in v0.1.

7 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Sorry if I may be thick here, but how does that work with the chastity gear included in the mod? Will NPCs just stick their dicks through them if I'm wearing one?

 

They could. That's the mod author's choice. Toys has a very simple way to temporarily "store" toys, so the mod author could choose to build into their story "NPC takes the Chasity belt off". Or you can tap into the backstory we have in Toy Story, where toys can have a phasing enchantment, that lets NPCs stick their dicks through.

 

You see the goal of the DD animation filter is to force device appropriate animations. Sounds reasonable on the surface. But the result is an overbearing solution that has no choices for the mod author or users. So Toys is not going there. Toys will have alternatives, beyond the one I just described, that are always optional. For the sake of fun sometimes toy "inappropriate" animations is the better compromise, versus broken scenes, long delays, or repeating the same animation over and over.

[VirginMarie]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm optimistic about Nemesis, but we're still a long way from the end of FNIS, unfortunately.

I agree. 

 

As for number of animations maxing out problem, I think we all have different play styles, where some are constantly bumping up against that, and others never do. I had kinda thought the latest situation is not too bad. But I accepted long ago that I'd never run both DD and newer versions of ZAP together, and this is for reasons unrelated to FNIS.  I also, as a rule, stick to the regular FNIS, not the XXL, as I think it keeps my load healthy. So I'm not "first hand" aware of the maxing out that you face.

 

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

detecting whether a character is actually capable of having sex at all, or exactly which holes are open

Now that is some good feedback. I had not thought about it in this way. An API that is "tell me what's open" before you call for a love scene huh?

 

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

And then there was the recent "manipulate devices" thing.

Yes I want to do something that is very different from this. Toys will never pop up menus and dialogue while equipping manually so its going to be different. I've got some ideas but wanted to see the feedback. Lock as a separate thing *scratches her head thoughtfully*

 

6 hours ago, kziitd said:

But I still want to say that from the introduction of the pictures. Some of your items don't seem to have a good match for the bone weight of the characters, such as the rope, which has a rather exaggerated deformation.

Maybe you need someone who is very experienced in BS to make props.

We have a few contributors but their time is limited and currently more are interested in doing it for SE when the time comes. I could certainly use more volunteers for bodyside in LE. You volunteering?

 

4 hours ago, audhol said:

You might want to change the wording for the insignia set as I did not create the belt, harness and chastity piercing that feature in the screenshots. Perhaps you could say some items by audhol?

Fixing now.

3 hours ago, MonVert said:

You can download the already compiled Nemesis from Github; you do not need to build it yourself.

The key point for me on Nemesis is that it, when I last checked, can't do AAs. Know when that is coming?

 

1 hour ago, Hylysi said:

In ToysHandler and ToysPlayerAlias you used a Mutex but a State would have (to my understanding) worked as well and would likely be faster.

 

Is this not the case?

Is there benefit to using one over the other or is using a Mutex for everything done for the sake of simplicity?

 

I don't know if its faster. Conceptually, I've always guessed that there is more overhead to states and that states are more of a convenience/design pattern.

 

Do you know you can run out of states? I found out the hard way in MCM menus in SLaV. I have often wished you look look up documentation that tells you which things are slow and fast relatively speaking in Papyrus. But I use the simpler method because I do have the feeling its also faster. If you dig deeper into my code you will find I've done some things that on the surface appear to be not so elegant and "hard coded", but I've done them for performance.

[CheddarTrauma]

56 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Do you know you can run out of states? I found out the hard way in MCM menus in SLaV. 

Using states for the simplest of MCM options such as text and toggles is a waste of states if your mod is feature heavy.

Milk Mod Economy has this "problem" because of that. There's a limit on states but that doesn't stop you from adding MCM options, instead you have to use the older non-state methods.

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

I have often wished you look look up documentation that tells you which things are slow and fast relatively speaking in Papyrus.

The closest thing I know of is Papyrus Speed Test but that only covers common functions. Writing custom tests is supported but, of course, you wouldn't be able to do mod specific tests without adding it as a dependency.

A script framework for modders that allows you to time the speed of code segment in a script by adding a start and stop function would be interesting.

[VirginMarie]

4 hours ago, Hylysi said:

There's a limit on states but that doesn't stop you from adding MCM options, instead you have to use the older non-state methods.

Yes I learned that the hard way and in SLaV had to fix in that way. I'm doing this right, from the start, in Toys, although with Toys I don't expect the MCM to go crazy with too many more options.

 

For testing, I do make my own script to throw a curve ball at the functions. For Toys api, I've purposely spammed them, to ensure the mutex is doing its job.

 

You can throw this at it...

If TStoryHandleToy(Toys.AnalBellChainGoldExotic) && TStoryHandleToy(Toys.ChastityPiercingGold) && TStoryHandleToy(Toys.NippleClampsGoldExotic) && TStoryHandleToy(Toys.AnkleChainGold) && TStoryHandleToy(Toys.RopeHarness) && TStoryHandleToy(Toys.WristChainsGold) && TStoryHandleToy(Toys.BrattyThroatTeaser)

and it wont even trigger a single mutex, which is good. So I spammed it with hotkey presses, which is more like if 2 mods are calling at the same time.

 

That line of code above is in Toy Story's TStoryMain.psc. Its one of the tests you trigger from the MCM, and it uses a wrapper that handles return codes, to call HandleToy(). That's the sort of thing I'm demoing/suggesting through Toy Story, that mod authors can use.

 

[nokturnihs]

So assuming the needed functionality is available in toys for a mod (sorry Lupine gonna use DF as an example) - say devious followers - since detecting both DD And toys present the mod author could put a switch in their MCM to expressly use one or the other.. So would that bypass or resolve at least some fighting between frameworks? So to pick on DF As an example, if a player is locked in a DF Slave collar that's being handled by toys, all other "accessories" would be handled also by toys (or DD If the DD Framework was being used). I don't know how easy that would be to work in but having both frameworks installed but only one being used at a time might be great. It also allows players to use some of the older mods that haven't had love in a while (obviously not using toys but Older DD Mods that aren't really updated anymore could rollover to DD for handling).

 

I guess the question there is would the overhead of that add a bunch of unnecessary script load? I don't know if there's a way to intercept DD stuff and swap it for Toys stuff without a lot of work but that'd be amazing IMO...

 

Keep up the good work! Will be paying close attention!

[VirginMarie]

8 hours ago, nokturnihs said:

put a switch in their MCM to expressly use one or the other.. So would that bypass or resolve at least some fighting between frameworks?

A switch in MCM would have to actually do something. What would it do?

It's not a matter of a user controlled switch, in fact if there is something it could do, it could be transparent to the user.

 

My intent IS to make it possible to do this, but you'd need a big reason to want use it because you, as the mod author, would be doing LOTS more work to support both frameworks.

 

Being able to use Toys along side DD is a requirement and a reality. But I think it would be a rare case where you'd want to support both frameworks, at the same time, which is a whole different thing, than running with some mods using DD and some using Toys.

 

Will you be able to use old mods that need DD? Yes. Toys will never fly if I don't support Toys running side by side with DD.

 

8 hours ago, nokturnihs said:

I don't know if there's a way to intercept DD stuff and swap it for Toys stuff without a lot of work but that'd be amazing IMO..

I don't see any technical possible way to do that at all. This is not a 1 to 1 feature mapping. Toys is not a DD clone. Toys is doing things very differently.

[nokturnihs]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

A switch in MCM would have to actually do something. What would it do?

It's not a matter of a user controlled switch, in fact if there is something it could do, it could be transparent to the user.

 

My intent IS to make it possible to do this, but you'd need a big reason to want use it because you, as the mod author, would be doing LOTS more work to support both frameworks.

 

Being able to use Toys along side DD is a requirement and a reality. But I think it would be a rare case where you'd want to support both frameworks, at the same time, which is a whole different thing, than running with some mods using DD and some using Toys.

 

Will you be able to use old mods that need DD? Yes. Toys will never fly if I don't support Toys running side by side with DD.

 

I don't see any technical possible way to do that at all. This is not a 1 to 1 feature mapping. Toys is not a DD clone. Toys is doing things very differently.

Oh yeah I'm sorry if it sounded like that's what I thought - it's got a lot of core (fundamental) differences. I was talking more along the line of use cases in other mods. There's a little overlay in some of the features (mainly) fancy accessories that hold some relation to some of the existing content out there. I believe that in some cases DD Became the framework of choice simply due to limited options.

 

Toys will be super interesting to watch going forward! As (mostly) a player I will be very interested to see who adopts it moving forward for third party mods and what kinds of fun features get implemented using some of toys unique features (like transformations). Just off the top of my head I could see some -really- interesting things coming from mods like chain beasts and others like that. 

 

I'll also be interested to see what mods like DBA And DT or corruption do with Toys!

 

Thanks for the quick reply! Will keep and eye on it!