Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Naps-On-Dirt]

6 minutes ago, ihateaccountrequirements said:

Submissive Lola

Man, I gotta not post in the middle of the night while I'm sick with a food allergy reaction.  ?  But in my defense, because Sexlab is like the dominant mod in LL's Skyrim collection, people usually give it "SL" and this mod gets "SubLola" or "SLTR".  But my brain wasn't at full speed last night so I didn't even consider the context of your post, sorry about that.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Naps-On-Dirt

[Hex Bolt]

10 hours ago, ihateaccountrequirements said:

Separate issue - I have DD 5.2, but SL is insisting I have an outdated version.

Because you do have an outdated version, most likely from a patch to DD (install DD 5.2, install an old patch, now you have an old version of one or more parts of DD).  Look through your mod list for anything that patches DD.  If that patch is outdated, that's the source of the problem.  The last time this was reported, it was due to SexLab Inflation Framework Patches, which was overwriting DD's main script with an ancient version from 2018.  See here for details.

[Hex Bolt]

The following is a general public service announcement not directed toward anyone, but rather these situations.

 

I can't emphasize strongly enough how dangerous it is to use old unmaintained patches.  If a patch replaces a script in a mod, it's swapping in an old version of that script.  As we saw with SexLab Inflation Framework Patches, you get a 5-year-old version of DD's main script.  Over time, a player's game can come to resemble a Frankenstein's monster of mismatched parts and, unless the patched mods perform some kind of internal check, the player won't even know what's happening.

 

I advise players to treat patches with skepticism.  (When was it last updated?  What does it replace in my mod list?)  I suspect that a lot of the buggy behavior in various mods with mysterious hard-to-recreate problems (especially DD, since it's a core framework) is due to outdated patches.

[CaptainJ03]

2 hours ago, patron_st said:

I set Sero as my master. When I wanted to set Serana as my playmate, I was blocked. The system prompts me to 'Must be a current follower'. I use NFF and I don't know how to handle it.

You simply can't. Serana has her own Follower scripts and cannot be handled like any other follower.

(yes, there are people out there who can, but if you're asking, you can not. Nor could I)

 

29 minutes ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

I disabled punishments for harming the master because Skyrim combat AI is stupid.

This is a submission score above 80 (or even 90) event. Maybe you have to tick 'allow motivational whippings' in the MCM? I like seeing Lola whipped, so I always have that on.

 

24 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

No, it was just broken.  If you see something that doesn't seem right, it might be something that I missed.

Oopsie. If that's the case - the numbers range was only up to six, while I counted something in the twenties. And of course I'm still using that addon we've talked about years ago to see all answers with the Confessions...

[Hex Bolt]

5 hours ago, Myrtleswan said:

Form 43 error on latest version.  Is this to be ignored?

Correct, ignore the warning.  Some mod managers see form 43 and think you downloaded the wrong mod version.  That's not the case here, since there's only version, which runs with LE, SE, AE, or VR.

 

3 hours ago, patron_st said:

When I wanted to set Serana as my playmate, I was blocked. The system prompts me to 'Must be a current follower'.

As the mod page says, "custom followers with specialized frameworks (like Serana and Inigo) will probably not work."  Serana might work after you complete her quest line, but I don't guarantee it.

[Hex Bolt]

7 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Oopsie. If that's the case - the numbers range was only up to six, while I counted something in the twenties. And of course I'm still using that addon we've talked about years ago to see all answers with the Confessions...

Yes, I feel particularly foolish about this one, since I'd tested the holy hell out of Counting is Fun.  It was perfect.  Then I broke it with a small change to whipping.  I've reverted the change, and the choices are correct now.  I'll post an update very soon.

 

[Hex Bolt]

Version 2.1.2

 

Fixed:  Counting is Fun choices started at zero.  They now span the correct value, as intended.
- This event still probably won't work right if your game is configured so that followers cannot damage you.

 

Reverted:  Removed the change from the previous version, "Damage from punishment whipping or spanking should be more consistently applied."  That change broke the counting mechanism for Counting is Fun.

[Code Serpent]

46 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

That change broke the counting mechanism for Counting is Fun.

Solidarity between mod authors trying to fix one thing and breaking another. ?

[Hex Bolt]

Some history on the Counting is Fun event, for anyone who cares.

 

Spoiler

I wanted a new Very Submissive event, since the hair change had moved down to a lower score threshold to be more accessible.  The classic counting challenge seemed ideal (the dom spanks, paddles, or whips the sub, who has to count along without getting confused, or the process starts over).  The mod already had whipping and the ability to detect hits on the owner.  Detecting hits on the player would be trivial.  I figured I could build the event in a few hours in one afternoon.  Right.

 

Counting was easily implemented and worked fine, but the spinning move that the whipper sometimes does was a complication.  I hear 3 impacts per spin, but only 2 register as hits.  That would be confusing.  I determined that the spin is the "power attack" version of the punishment cane animation, and I found that I could suppress it by temporarily debuffing the whipper's stamina to a large negative value.  Testing verified that the temporary debuff didn't cause trouble.  Problem solved.

 

Presenting the choices to the PC was tedious, and complicated by Skyrim's conversation system.  I wanted multiple rounds, with decreasing number of choices in case the player had difficulty, so 7 choices, then 5, 3, and 1.  The event scripting had to count the number of rounds and present the right number of choices, not so much hard as it was tedious.

 

I found that I had to have the owner respond "I see" when the player answers, which is awkward, but it was the only way to chain the owner's response to the "you're right" or "you're wrong" line, since the correct answer varies with each session and round.  (Earlier in the mod's history, I'd got around those situations by making the speaker's line a single space.  The player wouldn't see it, so I could invisibly chain one topic to the next.  Unfortunately, some players reported problems with that.  The single-space line didn't register in their games.  I think that's due to differences in Fuz Ro D-oh, possibly with timing.  I reluctantly had to replace all of those silent lines with brief meaningless responses like "Hmm?", "Oh?", or "I see.")

 

Testing hit a major problem when the first response is wrong, and the player is using the RohZima reward whipping pose.  That pose faces the PC away from the whipper and leaves the PC facing that direction at the end.  For subsequent whipping rounds (due to a wrong answer), the whipper would often be close enough to the PC to not move far enough to the right whipping position.  Sometimes, the whipper would start there with the whip drawn but do nothing.  That spoiled the event, and the whipping count would be zero.

 

The irony at the time was that it had become clear that counting is very easy, so few players would ever progress to multiple rounds and experience the positioning glitch, but I couldn't release the event with a big problem like that, even if not many people would see it.  So, I had to switch the owner to use the NPC version of the whipping function (rather than the owner's special version) and add a parameter to the function to handle the PC's facing direction and fix it if necessary.  That took a long time and several failed attempts before I got it right.

 

Of course, the second irony is that because of the later change that I made to whipping damage (which I just reverted in version 2.1.2), players actually got to see multiple rounds a lot.  I'm particularly glad that I'd designed the event so the player could never fail and get stuck, by reducing the choices to just 1 by the fourth round and assuming that it's always correct.  Hopefully, that helped players during the time when counting wasn't working.

 

Finally, everything worked reliably, even when going through all 4 rounds, even using the alternate whipping pose.  It worked well with the new option to let the playmate punish the player, too.  However, for all the work that went into it, the event was too easy.  Especially if I simply listened for hits, I'd get the right answer every time.  Boring.  So, I added a small chance (further increased by the "hard to please" chance) that on the round 1, the owner will cheat and tell you that you're wrong even when you're right.  It's a test of submission (Master/Mistress is always right) and an excuse to go one more round.

 

Then I accidentally broke the counting mechanism when I modified whipping to save up the damage to apply it once at the end, and it didn't occur to me that I should retest the counting event yet again.  The two are related, so I should have thought of that.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by HexBolt8

[ihateaccountrequirements]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Because you do have an outdated version, most likely from a patch to DD (install DD 5.2, install an old patch, now you have an old version of one or more parts of DD).  Look through your mod list for anything that patches DD.  If that patch is outdated, that's the source of the problem.  The last time this was reported, it was due to SexLab Inflation Framework Patches, which was overwriting DD's main script with an ancient version from 2018.  See here for details.

Ah, fair enough. No inflation here, but I have DD-specific add-on mods (like equip), which do overwrite portions of DD itself. It wasn't creating any (observable) issues, it was just advertising its displeasure at the "obsolete" version of DD it detected at every opportunity (in the MCM, but also onscreen every time I loaded).

[Hex Bolt]

46 minutes ago, ihateaccountrequirements said:

Ah, fair enough. No inflation here, but I have DD-specific add-on mods (like equip), which do overwrite portions of DD itself. It wasn't creating any (observable) issues, it was just advertising its displeasure at the "obsolete" version of DD it detected at every opportunity (in the MCM, but also onscreen every time I loaded).

DD Equip should be okay.  As far as I can see, it doesn't replace any DD scripts (or anything else in DD).  That's also true for its required mod, SUM.  So, it would be something else overwriting DD scripts.  Even though you don't notice any problems, using an older patched DD script with 5.2 (which was a pretty significant update) will probably lead to difficulties.  It's up to you, of course, but think it's worth finding and removing whatever is overriding DD 5.2 scripts.  Depending on how old the patched script(s) is/are, some of the stuff in this mod (and probably other mods) won't work as it should.

[ihateaccountrequirements]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

DD Equip should be okay.  As far as I can see, it doesn't replace any DD scripts (or anything else in DD).  That's also true for its required mod, SUM.  So, it would be something else overwriting DD scripts.  Even though you don't notice any problems, using an older patched DD script with 5.2 (which was a pretty significant update) will probably lead to difficulties.  It's up to you, of course, but think it's worth finding and removing whatever is overriding DD 5.2 scripts.  Depending on how old the patched script(s) is/are, some of the stuff in this mod (and probably other mods) won't work as it should.

Equip was an example not the exhaustive list. Looking in MO2, Integration and Expansion are the ones overwriting scripts...and since they're listed as prereqs FOR DDe, it's kinda DDe's fault by extension.

 

ETA: Changed order in MO2, saw DD overwriting basically everything, disabled them and loaded. DDe still fine (seems the prereqs got folded into basic DD and DDe didn't bother to update their requirements, that's on them for misinforming users), and relevantly SLtR is now satisfied about DD, 'cause it's not being overwritten by anything anymore.

Edited August 6, 2023 by ihateaccountrequirements
updated with testing results

[Talesien]

2 hours ago, ihateaccountrequirements said:

Equip was an example not the exhaustive list. Looking in MO2, Integration and Expansion are the ones overwriting scripts...and since they're listed as prereqs FOR DDe, it's kinda DDe's fault by extension.

Devious Devices - Integration and Devious Devices - Expansion are a part of Devious Devices, if you have them separate, you have a (partial) install of an older Devious Devices version (likely a 4.x version), this will cause problems. Remove those. If DDE complains, you need a newer version of that, any halfway recent DDE should work just fine with the standard DD5.2 install.

[ihateaccountrequirements]

3 hours ago, Talesien said:

Devious Devices - Integration and Devious Devices - Expansion are a part of Devious Devices, if you have them separate, you have a (partial) install of an older Devious Devices version (likely a 4.x version), this will cause problems. Remove those. If DDE complains, you need a newer version of that, any halfway recent DDE should work just fine with the standard DD5.2 install.

It does, as I noted, work fine without them - the problem is/was that DDe still claims it needs them as prereqs, so when I'd set it up originally I did what it told me I needed to. Then DD incorporated those parts as IT updated, but DDe still hasn't acknowledged that and updated their requirements to reflect that (so I didn't know it HAD happened until digging into it due to the conflict with SLtR).

 

Anywho, gonna stop with this since everything past "DDe is lying about its requirements, and doing what it tells you makes THIS mod complain about DD being obsolete...and is probably messing up other things too" is off-topic and I'm not looking to derail things.

 

Thanks all.

[CaptainJ03]

9 hours ago, ihateaccountrequirements said:

Looking in MO2, Integration and Expansion are the ones overwriting scripts...and since they're listed as prereqs FOR DDe, it's kinda DDe's fault by extension.

as @Talesien already said: DD 5 comes with four esp's which all must be installed and active. Cannot tell for MO2, but Vortex always complains about mods with multiple esp's. There is not a single conflict in-between these four esps, because it's all the same download. You cannot get other scripts by ticking an esp.

 

And just to confuse everyone, DDe and DDE are completely different mods by different authors.

[ihateaccountrequirements]

1 hour ago, CaptainJ03 said:

as @Talesien already said: DD 5 comes with four esp's which all must be installed and active. Cannot tell for MO2, but Vortex always complains about mods with multiple esp's. There is not a single conflict in-between these four esps, because it's all the same download. You cannot get other scripts by ticking an esp.

 

And just to confuse everyone, DDe and DDE are completely different mods by different authors.

MO2 doesn't seem to care, also doesn't tell you unless you go looking...but also kinda tangential to the issue as presented?*** 'Cause the new DD wasn't the problem. It's the scripts from the OLD DD-E and DD-I, now removed. And yeah, the shortened names between Equip and Expansion could be confusing to people that didn't already know.

 

***[ETA: It does occur to me that, if MO2 DID make some fuss or announce in an unavoidable way when there are multiple esps, the whole issue could have been avoided, since I'd have seen the redundancy between the old add-ons and the new DD.]

 

They USED to be separate add-on mods (and still exist, though I guess they stopped updating when they got rolled up into DD base at some point), and the problem was/is that DDe still lists the old add-ons as prerequisites (rather than just saying DD 5.x/whichever DD update incorporated all the add-ons). So I still had them. 'Cause I (and I'm unlikely to be alone in this) had no information or context to know I didn't need them anymore...nevermind that they were actually counterproductive.

 

And they, the outdated add-ons, were overwriting the newer DD. Which created complaints from this mod - SLtR - that my DD 5.2 was obsolete [how this whole thing came up in the first place]. Because the newer scripts in the all-in-one DD 5.2 were being overwritten by the older 4.3(?) scripts from the add-on versions.

 

Sorry for the derailment, HexBolt8 (and everyone else).

Edited August 7, 2023 by ihateaccountrequirements

[akssi]

21 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

版本2.1.2

 

修正：计数是从零开始的有趣选择。它们现在按照预期跨越了正确的值。
- 如果您的游戏配置为追随者无法伤害您，则此事件仍然可能无法正常进行。

 

恢复：删除了之前版本的更改，“惩罚鞭打或打屁股造成的伤害应该更加一致地应用。” 这一变化打破了《计数很有趣》的计数机制。

so little new content?

[Talesien]

Just now, akssi said:

so little new content?

It's a bug fix not a content update.
Besides, sorry but you are pretty darn demanding. Bethesda hasn't manage to bring out an Elder Scrolls 6 after 12 years now, do you badger them all the time?
I appreciate that you do like this mod, but take a look at your postings in the last few months please. You either ask (or more precise push) for new content, complain about something or propose new features (which is absolutely fine) but seem not prepared to take no for an answer, nor willing to wait for your ideas to be implemented eventually. You come across as someone who wants everything and who wants it now!
Now I appreciate that you are not a native English speaker (neither am I) and that may play a role in how you come across, as may cultural differences. Still, maybe consider taking a step back and reevaluate what you are doing here. Hint: People who come across as pushy and ungrateful have an increased chance that others (like say ... mod authors) will consider their ideas with much less enthusiasm as those from more polite folks ... just saying.
 

[akssi]

49 minutes ago, Talesien said:

这是错误修复而不是内容更新。
另外，抱歉，你的要求实在是太高了。12年后Bethesda还没有推出《上古卷轴6》，你是不是一直在纠缠他们？
我很感激你喜欢这个模组，但请看看你在过去几个月里发布的帖子。你要么要求（或更精确地推动）新内容，要么抱怨某些事情，要么提出新功能（这绝对没问题），但似乎不准备接受否定的答案，也不愿意等待你的想法最终得到实现。你给人的印象是一个想要一切并且现在就想要的人！
现在我意识到你的母语不是英语（我也不是），这可能会影响你的印象，文化差异也可能会影响你的印象。不过，也许可以考虑退后一步，重新评估你在这里所做的事情。提示：那些被认为咄咄逼人、忘恩负义的人更有可能让其他人（比如……模组作者）以比更有礼貌的人更少的热情考虑他们的想法……只是说说而已。
 

Oh, sorry sir, not in the future!?

[blahity]

@HexBolt8Have you ever thought about a ownership transferal event? Your owner passes you to a 'friend' to continue your training and then they're now your new owner. I know we can currently manually transfer but I thought it might be interesting to be passed between your spouse, your steward, and your housecarl or even between members of your guild. Could this list be populated by a dialogue option added to people you're relationship level 3 or 4 with. Even being given a "move your ass" plug to make you get to your new master as quick as possible. It might be fun to instead of having one Master have a group of friends who share you between themselves.

 

Though I honestly have no idea how realistic it would be to build this quest.

Edited August 7, 2023 by blahity

[DiabloJim]

Does this mod prevent the player from wearing headgear, in this case the Thick Fur Hood and a wig obtained via Misty Skye's hairdresser?

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, DiabloJim said:

Does this mod prevent the player from wearing headgear, in this case the Thick Fur Hood and a wig obtained via Misty Skye's hairdresser?

No, it shouldn't block any headgear.  The only slot specifically required is 45, for DD or ZAP collars.

[DiabloJim]

39 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

No, it shouldn't block any headgear.  The only slot specifically required is 45, for DD or ZAP collars.

Thank you very much for the reply.

I'll have to keep experimenting because something is causing it--and it literally happened before my eyes; one second she was wearing the wig, and the next it was gone, and could not be reapplied. It stopped after I disabled DD, Lola, and TekknoTom's Lola expansion.

Edited August 12, 2023 by DiabloJim

[swords and sandals]

44 minutes ago, DiabloJim said:

Thank you very much for the reply.

I'll have to keep experimenting because something is causing it--and it literally happened before my eyes; one second she was wearing the wig, and the next it was gone, and could not be reapplied. It stopped after I disabled DD, Lola, and TekknoTom's Lola expansion.

 

The device hider from DD is the likely cause. It uses slot 41 by default (the "long hair" slot) and many hoods with hair from other mods are unusable because of it. You can change its slot in the DD MCM though, at the top of the first devices underneath page (the second page from the bottom in the MCM.) If you don't want to use the device hider at all, you can set its slot to nothing to disable it completely.

[DiabloJim]

2 hours ago, merManc said:

 

The device hider from DD is the likely cause. It uses slot 41 by default (the "long hair" slot) and many hoods with hair from other mods are unusable because of it. You can change its slot in the DD MCM though, at the top of the first devices underneath page (the second page from the bottom in the MCM.) If you don't want to use the device hider at all, you can set its slot to nothing to disable it completely.

 

That does look to have been the culprit. I reenabled all the mods, then disabled that section in DD MCM and all is working. Thank you so much for the timely help.