Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Rylalei]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

At one time, I'd attempted to make a "Master Did That" mod for my personal use, so that dialog related to becoming a thane of purchasing property would refer to the follower rather than the PC, and any NPC greetings would refer to "your master/mistress" as thane.  The PC didn't do that; Master did.  Likewise, becoming head of a guild would refer to the owner follower.  I abandoned it after doing one quest and one thaneship.  It's a fair amount of work, it requires changes to a lot of vanilla speech (risking mod conflicts), and it was a little strange having the follower and a jarl talk to each other through the PC.

 

Maybe someone would like to make a Lola add-on that does this for the owner follower.  It's easy to check owner gender and conditionally refer to Lola's "master" or "mistress".  It's more challenging to make the conversation sound natural.

 

I guess a quick "excuse" for those who want it could be that master doesn't speak "common", so the nobles and such would need to speak through Lola as a translator, and would make perfect sense, especially if the owner is an NPC from a mod.

[Cerral]

I have installed zaz 9.0 and it seems that it is not fully compatible with the mod. For example, when the PC asks to be whipped or when punished, nothing happens. The animations don't run. With zaz 8.0+ I didn't have this problem.

Would other people also have installed zaz 9.0 and if so do you have the same problem?

[ChasteArisenDemonLord]

is it okay not to use DD? I don't really want to grab 2.7GBs for one mod. Like, would it CTD if I didnt?

[Aldid]

5 minutes ago, ChasteArisenDemonLord said:

is it okay not to use DD? I don't really want to grab 2.7GBs for one mod. Like, would it CTD if I didnt?

The mod just wouldn't load, sorry. Even if you removed all references to DD devices so that it could load, you'd break it.

[ChasteArisenDemonLord]

7 minutes ago, Aldid said:

The mod just wouldn't load, sorry. Even if you removed all references to DD devices so that it could load, you'd break it.

Ahhhh. shid. Alright then. Thanks for answering.

[Jehuty599]

5 hours ago, Cerral said:

I have installed zaz 9.0 and it seems that it is not fully compatible with the mod. For example, when the PC asks to be whipped or when punished, nothing happens. The animations don't run. With zaz 8.0+ I didn't have this problem.

Would other people also have installed zaz 9.0 and if so do you have the same problem?

I had this exact same problem when I updated to Zaz 9 along with a few other restraint animation issue's, so I had to uninstall it and go back to using Zaz 8+ and everything is working great again. I really liked Zaz 9, it's got a lot of great looking restraints...etc, but without a mod that actually uses them, and till all the bugs get fixed...to me it seems kind of pointless updating.

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, ChasteArisenDemonLord said:

is it okay not to use DD? I don't really want to grab 2.7GBs for one mod.

The current DD 5.2 beta is 1 GB smaller than that, with new features and devices.  Perhaps that's more to your liking.

 

DD 5 is also required for submissive bondage mods like Laura's Bondage Shop, so it's a very worthwhile framework to have.

Edited September 28, 2022 by HexBolt8

[DayTri]

23 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

My thought was that a player could simply use the existing score decay feature, if desired.  Players who want a short duration wouldn't do that.

 

I prefer not to try to track a separate satisfaction metric.  However, there are other ways to handle an "adequate service" feature for counting contract time:

- Use the existing "kept below" feature.

- Only days where you offered service enough times count.

- Only days where you earned enough base points (or perhaps net points*) count.

 

* I'd interpreted the suggestion by @DayTri for "sum of daily submission score" as the total of all points earned, but the request was probably actually for net points gained each day.

 

Thinking about it, the first two together should mostly work as a decent adequate service check, if the player makes the required daily service setting not too low.  However, I suppose a defiant slave might offer service but choose all the rebellious dialog options, then focus on running the score up to the minimum toward the end of contract.

 

I will make offering service enough times a requirement for contract days, just as you don't get your allowance if you didn't offer service enough.  Players can make the service-offered setting as easy or hard as they like.

 

Rather than a minimum score for contract days, I'll look at possibly adding a configurable daily net score requirement.  Failing this will be the same as not offering service enough times, resulting in punishment, no allowance, and no credit for the day for contract time.

 

Yeah I think net daily could work too. But you will run into some weird edge cases, with the scaling at the higher end of the points total. There will end up being situations where the fastest path to release could be to tank your score so that future days you could meet the net score requirement. That's the motivation I had for summing up the end-of-day total over multiple days: 1 day at 100 = 2 days at 50 = 4 days at 25, and days where you end negative effectively extend the contract.

 

 

[Hex Bolt]

21 minutes ago, DayTri said:

But you will run into some weird edge cases, with the scaling at the higher end of the points total.

If I add this feature, it would count the pre-scaled points, so it wouldn't matter where Lola is on the score progression.

[loniceraa]

The unlocked blindfolds given in the "Lights Out" event are pretty strange, to say the least. They don't do most DD "blindfold" things: they don't have attached scripts or DD keywords, so they don't interact with other DD mods, stop movement in third person, increase vibrator sensitivity, etc. I don't know why they're like that in the base DD framework, but it might be a better idea to use the locking versions with manipulated locks, or maybe with an option to ask your owner to unlock you.

[CaptainJ03]

6 hours ago, anyway ayway said:

The unlocked blindfolds given in the "Lights Out" event are pretty strange, to say the least. They don't do most DD "blindfold" things.

Yup, they're like this with the new DDs (I don't remember if they behaved the same in 4.x)

[Hex Bolt]

15 hours ago, anyway ayway said:

The unlocked blindfolds given in the "Lights Out" event are pretty strange, to say the least.

They're actually very similar to the zbf Blind Hood type device that this quest used in the original mod.  They do obstruct the player's view (this works best with DD's Blindfold Strength setting at max), though it's unfortunate that they don't increase vibrator sensitivity like the locking versions do.  I chose these because they're official Devious Devices and they follow the same process as in the original quest:  you have to equip & remove the blindfold yourself.

 

The quest is only here because it was in the original.  My personal feeling is that any blindfold worthy of the name should 100% block vision, but DD blindfolds don't work that way, presumably to allow the player to travel the world and engage in combat while "blind".  It might be interesting to replace the quest with a different one that uses a real blindness mechanic, though for a shorter time, but nothing really comes to mind that wouldn't simply be annoying.

[loniceraa]

57 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

They're actually very similar to the zbf Blind Hood type device that this quest used in the original mod.  They do obstruct the player's view (this works best with DD's Blindfold Strength setting at max), though it's unfortunate that they don't increase vibrator sensitivity like the locking versions do.  I chose these because they're official Devious Devices and they follow the same process as in the original quest:  you have to equip & remove the blindfold yourself.

 

The quest is only here because it was in the original.  My personal feeling is that any blindfold worthy of the name should 100% block vision, but DD blindfolds don't work that way, presumably to allow the player to travel the world and engage in combat while "blind".  It might be interesting to replace the quest with a different one that uses a real blindness mechanic, though for a shorter time, but nothing really comes to mind that wouldn't simply be annoying.

 

Maybe it's just a quirk of how I play the game, but normal DD blindfolds work quite well in my experience (I use the "DD blindfold" setting with strength = 0.90). Normal combat/gameplay is virtually impossible, but moving around a bit is feasible by orienting yourself first in 3rd person mode. But the main problem here is that the "unlocked" blindfolds don't block movement in 3rd person like the normal blindfolds do, so they don't really work at all, unfortunately. I just switched the unlocked blindfold for a locking blindfold for this event and it seemed to work out alright.

 

I think it's sort of the same problem with the DD harness given by the pony event: another case of an item that technically exists in the DD framework, but doesn't really work at all. In my game, that harness just errors out and isn't even equipped, because another DD mod (Unforgiving Devices) looks for DD keywords, finds nothing, thinks it's a broken item and sends it into oblivion.

[shiagwen]

If all evens are suspended, there is an option, that the master can still fuck the pc. i didnt tested it, but i guess this means that the pc can also ask the master for a fuck.

Can you add an option that spanking and whipping can also still happen (and the pc asking the master for it)  ?

[Hex Bolt]

46 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

If all evens are suspended, there is an option, that the master can still fuck the pc.

Yes, that is a bit of an exception.  When events are suspended, the mod isn't doing much, sort of like you can put your computer in sleep mode without fully powering it off.  At one point during testing, I noticed that the owner's arousal was 100, and it seemed strange that the owner couldn't simply demand sex, so I added an option for that one exception.

 

51 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

Can you add an option that spanking and whipping can also still happen (and the pc asking the master for it)  ?

Probably not.  Since no rules are being enforced, the owner would have no reason to initiate spanking or whipping, and you can't ask for those things because the "Master/Mistress?" topic is gone while events are suspended.  I don't see a good reason to change that.  Suspending events is intended for short term use when the PC cannot function as a slave, such as when sent to prison or when doing the Battle of Whiterun and the PC is separated from the owner.  During that time, no rules are enforced (you can even remove the collar), and days are not counted toward contract time.  If you can't function as a slave, it seems reasonable that you don't get the "benefits" of a slave.

[Abr1]

Hello. Most likely already offered, but still. Just a suggestion. In your mod, there is an opportunity to stay forever through dialogue. You can add several tasks to such a choice, for example, that a companion wants the “relationship” to become more “official” and orders to get a document about his ownership of the player from the jarl. And since the supreme king has been killed, and a new one has not yet been elected, the player will have to receive such documents in each hold. Jarls can also demand different services and impose restrictions on those who are someone's property. You can make a bunch of new content out of this. I could sketch out some examples of tasks and dialogues, but most likely it will be wasted, so I'll just wait for an answer. I am sure that the community will also be able to offer a bunch of ideas.

[Hex Bolt]

4 hours ago, Abr1 said:

And since the supreme king has been killed, and a new one has not yet been elected, the player will have to receive such documents in each hold.

I've wanted to add a quest to perform for or provide a service to each of the jarls.  It would likely become available at the Very Submissive level.  The challenge is to find something interesting and relevant to submissive slavehood, something more than having sex with or dancing for them (we've already done that a lot).

 

Plotwise, it's better to stay away from the nature of the ownership of Lola, since enslavement can start in various ways, and the player might have already mentally written a story regarding just how official that ownership is.  The quest shouldn't risk conflicting with the player's story.  However, like the Trophy Slave event, the owner would likely want to show off Lola in each of the hold's courts, so that's ample reason to visit each jarl.

 

I'm open to suggestions for the tasks.  Keep in mind that there must be room for alternatives for different PC gender preferences as well as player preferences (such as for bestiality), and remember that a few players do not have a sexual relationship between the owner and Lola (yes, you can configure the mod that way).  Also, I prefer to use existing NPCs rather than adding new ones.

 

One task might be "supporting" the guards (local barracks) or troops (military camp), but without mods the soldiers are almost all men, so that won't work for straight male or lesbian characters (it could still be an option, but there must be worthwhile alternatives).  Modeling bondage gear also comes to mind, if it can be done in an interesting way.  Lola might be charged with performing a "public whore" service to fill a hold's war-depleted treasury.  In larger holds (where there are more choices), Lola might have to seduce one or more influential figures to solidify support for the jarl's policies.

[Hex Bolt]

Does anyone NOT enable the "Scale submission daily decay" setting?  It's enabled by default, and I'm thinking that if it's rarely turned off then I could remove the setting to help simplify the MCM.

 

Edit (hopefully better explanation):  The "Scale submission daily decay" setting keeps the difficulty even as you progress, so that if the owner would have forgotten 5 points of your score, that gets scaled down to smaller & smaller amounts as your score increases.  As rewards taper off, so does daily score decay.  Otherwise, with a daily score decay of 5, you could drop from 100 to 95 in the morning.  My question was whether anyone does not use this feature.  In other words, does anyone actually like losing a lot of score at high score levels?  The question is moot of course if you have daily score decay at 0.

Edited October 5, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Talesien]

34 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

 However, like the Trophy Slave event, the owner would likely want to show off Lola in each of the hold's courts, so that's ample reason to visit each jarl.

You know, I've always wondered how casually all of the Jarls seem to go along with this whole slave thingy, twice if Lola is also actually the DB. One would expect at least some of them to be more narrowminded and at least have Lola and her owner removed from his palace. If Lola is the DB I could even see the owner getting thrown into prison and DB-Lola handed over to some priest or mage to have her head set straight again. After all the DB is a major figure a great hero of the Norths. I somehow can't see the likes of Skald or Korir (or even Ulfric) easily accepting her to be a willing, submissive slave.
Likely a bit to much for this mod, but it would sure be fun to have a questline where Lola needs to get out of the situation and rescue her owner. ^^
Anyway, at least have them kicked out of some of the places and told not to return until she came to her senses (and prolly never for the owner).

Edited October 5, 2022 by Talesien

[blahity]

31 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Does anyone NOT enable the "Scale submission daily decay" setting?  It's enabled by default, and I'm thinking that if it's rarely turned off then I could remove the setting to help simplify the MCM.

I've actually never tried it on, because at higher submission levels it takes so much longer to raise submission if not changing the rates once 80+.

[DayTri]

43 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Does anyone NOT enable the "Scale submission daily decay" setting?  It's enabled by default, and I'm thinking that if it's rarely turned off then I could remove the setting to help simplify the MCM.

 

Yeah I usually turn the scaling off, I want to get all the content but it takes too long with non-linear progression. Usually I only want to spend 2 or 3 in-game days with this mod before I keep going with other stuff, I like being able to get to > 80 score in that time frame.

[Hex Bolt]

45 minutes ago, blahity said:

I've actually never tried it on, because at higher submission levels it takes so much longer to raise submission if not changing the rates once 80+.

 

35 minutes ago, DayTri said:

I usually turn the scaling off, I want to get all the content but it takes too long with non-linear progression.

 

I think you two misunderstood my question, which means that I worded it poorly.

 

The "Scale submission daily decay" setting keeps the difficulty even as you progress, so that if the owner would have forgotten 5 points of your score, that gets scaled down to smaller & smaller amounts as your score increases.  As rewards taper off, so does daily score decay.  Otherwise, with a daily score decay of 5, you could drop from 100 to 95 in the morning.  My question was whether anyone does not use this feature.  In other words, does anyone actually like losing a lot of score at high score levels?  The question is moot of course if you have daily score decay at 0.

 

@DayTri, you can't turn off score scaling.  The scaling toggle applies to the daily score decay setting.

Edited October 5, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

After all the DB is a major figure a great hero of the Norths. I somehow can't see the likes of Skald or Korir (or even Ulfric) easily accepting her to be a willing, submissive slave.

That's a fair position.  However, on the opposite end there was the City Bondage mod (now removed by its author) which posited that the people had grown afraid of the Dragonborn's power, so the jarl would require the DB to wear strict bondage in the city.

 

There was also a player who expressed the desire for a voluntary enslavement mod for a Dragonborn character.  The DB was concerned about becoming power-mad (power corrupts) and eventually abusing that power to harm the innocent.  So, the DB voluntarily becomes a slave to have someone keep that power (and pride) under control.

 

Some players roleplay that the owner takes credit for the Dragonborn's deeds, so people believe that the PC is actually the slave of the Dragonborn.

 

I assume that players can rationalize an enslaved Dragonborn if they play a DB character and use this mod.

Edited October 5, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Senick]

48 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's a fair position.  However, on the opposite end there was the City Bondage mod (now removed by its author) which posited that the people had grown afraid of the Dragonborn's power, so the jarl would require the DB to wear strict bondage in the city.

 

There was also a player who expressed the desire for a voluntary enslavement mod for a Dragonborn character.  The DB was concerned about becoming power-mad (power corrupts) and eventually abusing that power to harm the innocent.  So, the DB voluntarily becomes a slave to have someone keep that power (and pride) under control.

 

Some players roleplay that the owner takes credit for the Dragonborn's deeds, so people believe that the PC is actually the slave of the Dragonborn.

 

I assume that players can rationalize an enslaved Dragonborn if they play a DB character and use this mod.

I don't think they were criticizing the existence or rational of the mod existing or even the Dragonborn's perspective, but rather the in-universe reaction of others and how it could be a chance for additional stories/content ^.^

[Hex Bolt]

6 minutes ago, Senick said:

I don't think they were criticizing the existence or rational of the mod existing or even the Dragonborn's perspective, but rather the in-universe reaction of others and how it could be a chance for additional stories/content

I didn't take it as a criticism of the mod.  It's a reasonable interpretation, but this mod has gone the other direction.  In the palace scene, the owner talks about impressing the nobles or jokes about selling you to the jarl, so it would be awkward to add content that has the jarl object to the PC's situation.  I just assume that jarls and other authority figures are okay with the PC's enslavement, even if the PC is Dragonborn.