Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[blahity]

3 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I assume that players can rationalize an enslaved Dragonborn if they play a DB character and use this mod.

Everyone uses their own imagination to figure out a way they want it to work. That's one of the things I really enjoy about your mod!

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Plotwise, it's better to stay away from the nature of the ownership of Lola, since enslavement can start in various ways, and the player might have already mentally written a story regarding just how official that ownership is.  The quest shouldn't risk conflicting with the player's story.  However, like the Trophy Slave event, the owner would likely want to show off Lola in each of the hold's courts, so that's ample reason to visit each jarl.

Maybe the owner could receive a tax rebate or stipend for the care of a shieldmaiden or shieldbro, but to earn it you have to "provide a service" to the Jarl themselves or their Thane, Housecarl, Spouse, or Steward. That should offer variety for any gender and could have some fun dialogue options. The only downside I can see is that its kind of like the Ponygirl Event of getting gold from the Steward.

 

4 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think you two misunderstood my question, which means that I worded it poorly.

Yeah, I think I did misunderstand what the daily decay option was. For some reason in my head I remembered it being a "lose X submission every day option". I think I've always left the scaling on.

Edited October 5, 2022 by blahity

[loniceraa]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Does anyone NOT enable the "Scale submission daily decay" setting?  It's enabled by default, and I'm thinking that if it's rarely turned off then I could remove the setting to help simplify the MCM.

 

Edit (hopefully better explanation):  The "Scale submission daily decay" setting keeps the difficulty even as you progress, so that if the owner would have forgotten 5 points of your score, that gets scaled down to smaller & smaller amounts as your score increases.  As rewards taper off, so does daily score decay.  Otherwise, with a daily score decay of 5, you could drop from 100 to 95 in the morning.  My question was whether anyone does not use this feature.  In other words, does anyone actually like losing a lot of score at high score levels?  The question is moot of course if you have daily score decay at 0.

 

I currently have that option disabled. I thought it would give things a better "arc" if the difficulty of maintaining submission increases as you get higher, especially when the threshold for being kept is fairly high. It worked pretty well, and getting submission over 90 certainly required some effort.

 

However, I haven't tried playing with decay scaling enabled, so it's possible the setting is not as important as it seems.

[Abr1]

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The challenge is to find something interesting and relevant to submissive slavehood, something more than having sex with or dancing for them (we've already done that a lot).

For example, the jarl can borrow Lola from the owner for a while as a “decoration” during negotiations with important guests from a distant part of Tamriel. Lola will have to sit naked in chains near the Jarl's throne while the jarl talks. Lola can be used as a simple unknown slave to embarrass the interlocutor in order to give the jarl advantageous positions for negotiations with the confused interlocutor, or can be used as a Great Dragonborn conquered by the jarl, which should prove the indisputability of the jarl's power and should instill uncertainty in the interlocutor, again for the benefit of the jarl. As in the picture.

Quote

Plotwise, it's better to stay away from the nature of the ownership of Lola, since enslavement can start in various ways, and the player might have already mentally written a story regarding just how official that ownership is.

Therefore, such a development of events can be made possible only with voluntary surrender to lifelong slavery through dialogue, or after reaching the level of submission configured in MCM, after which the owner will not let Lola go.

Examples of events:

In Whiterun, Severio Pelagia comes to Jarl to say that he is forced to increase the cost of his vegetables due to problems with bad weather, but seeing a naked girl chained in chains, to whom he recently told about “the impact of bad weather on the harvest,” he loses all his mood for victory and in the end jarl manages to even reduce the cost of products from the Severio Pelagia farm. Or the jarl can order Lola to help with the harvest on the farm, ordering her to follow the orders of Severio Pelagia. And he can take full advantage of this opportunity, for example, by forcing Lola to grind flour while completely naked, etc. Or after making a decision to help on the farm, the jarl found it inappropriate to delay the execution of the order, distracted by Lola's dressing up, so she is forced to follow through the whole city to the farm in what she is, naked and in chains, and work there in the same form, and after fulfilling the order she will have to make the same way back, and ask to release her from her chains. There's a lot of room for imagination.

 

Or Jarl Falkreath uses Lola when negotiating with the messenger of a gang of bandits demanding gold from the jarl and threatening to plunder the city, but the jarl threatens them with a subdued Dragonborn, who can effortlessly tear both the negotiator and their entire gang to pieces with her voice, the jarl has only to order. As a result, the bandit is forced to flee in fear.

In any case, who said that it is impossible to use slaves in trade and in political affairs? ))

Edited October 5, 2022 by Abr1

[Hex Bolt]

9 hours ago, anyway ayway said:

I haven't tried playing with decay scaling enabled, so it's possible the setting is not as important as it seems.

The effect is greater, of course, at higher daily decay values.  The loss of 2 points each day can probably be regained even at 90+, but losing 5 or more points every day could make reaching max score impossible (that would be appropriate for an owner who's impossible to satisfy, but this might not appeal to many players).  Conversely, if the decay is small, it would be manageable at high scores but barely noticeable at low scores.

 

Thanks for your reply.  I'm waiting for more feedback before making a decision.  I don't want to remove a feature that's important to players, but I do like to remove clutter from the settings when possible.

[Abr1]

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Does anyone NOT enable the "Scale submission daily decay" setting?  It's enabled by default, and I'm thinking that if it's rarely turned off then I could remove the setting to help simplify the MCM.

I have never used this function because I think it is pointless to make a daily reduction of the score, which does not depend on your actions in any way.

[Talesien]

14 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I didn't take it as a criticism of the mod.  It's a reasonable interpretation, but this mod has gone the other direction.  In the palace scene, the owner talks about impressing the nobles or jokes about selling you to the jarl, so it would be awkward to add content that has the jarl object to the PC's situation.  I just assume that jarls and other authority figures are okay with the PC's enslavement, even if the PC is Dragonborn.

And that's fine, by and at large. The point I wanted to make (which might have went a bit under in my extensive explanation) is that the reactions are oddly uniform. There is not even one Jarl breaking the mold, which is even more odd given how different they are in many other ways. It also does appear like a bit of a wasted opportunity to me.

[Naps-On-Dirt]

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Does anyone NOT enable the "Scale submission daily decay" setting?  It's enabled by default, and I'm thinking that if it's rarely turned off then I could remove the setting to help simplify the MCM.

 

 

I just checked and I have it enabled.

[ScroodPooch]

16 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's a fair position.  However, on the opposite end there was the City Bondage mod (now removed by its author) which posited that the people had grown afraid of the Dragonborn's power, so the jarl would require the DB to wear strict bondage in the city.

 

There was also a player who expressed the desire for a voluntary enslavement mod for a Dragonborn character.  The DB was concerned about becoming power-mad (power corrupts) and eventually abusing that power to harm the innocent.  So, the DB voluntarily becomes a slave to have someone keep that power (and pride) under control.

 

Some players roleplay that the owner takes credit for the Dragonborn's deeds, so people believe that the PC is actually the slave of the Dragonborn.

 

I assume that players can rationalize an enslaved Dragonborn if they play a DB character and use this mod.

I would take it even a step further. (Just food for thought here) Given who the DB is to the people of Skyrim in General, I don't put it out of the realm of possibilities that none of the powers that be in Skyrim would accept the DB being anyone's slave. We are talking about the power and political influence to turn the tide of the entire war. No one is going to sit back and allow any of the other powers to hold that influence over Skyrim. Much less some Backwater hick of an adventurer.

 

Meaning, any one in Skyrim holding the DB as a slave, would be considered as a threat by the rest of Skyrim. I don't think voluntary makes much difference there. That means, you and your follower/owner have to consider the impact of what you do throughout the land, and need to be careful. Otherwise, you invite problems everywhere you go.

Edited October 5, 2022 by ScroodPooch

[Clea Strange]

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's a fair position.  However, on the opposite end there was the City Bondage mod (now removed by its author) which posited that the people had grown afraid of the Dragonborn's power, so the jarl would require the DB to wear strict bondage in the city.

 

There was also a player who expressed the desire for a voluntary enslavement mod for a Dragonborn character.  The DB was concerned about becoming power-mad (power corrupts) and eventually abusing that power to harm the innocent.  So, the DB voluntarily becomes a slave to have someone keep that power (and pride) under control.

 

Some players roleplay that the owner takes credit for the Dragonborn's deeds, so people believe that the PC is actually the slave of the Dragonborn.

 

I assume that players can rationalize an enslaved Dragonborn if they play a DB character and use this mod.

 

The main problem I see is the implication the Dragonborn is to the people in general. With the political nature and powerof the Dragonborn. No one would accept the Dragonborn being a slave even a willing one. I see it as this, if anyone sees the Dragonborn as a slave. Those people would move against the Dragonborns owner and free her.

 

Also no one in skyrim would accept someone owning the dragonborn, an individual that has extreme influence over skyrim. That is why people would move against the owner immediately and wouldn't care if the dragonborn was willing or not.

Or They move to free the Dragonborn but to her a slave not to just one individual but to multiple individuals at once

 

For the hold events, I don't think their is no such thing as too much sex. I can see it as the owner of the dragonborn

offers the services to the jarl or anyone their even if it includes sex.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Clea Strange

[Olek_Lump]

Hello there. I have a problem. Everytime I start the quest and  talk to my owner, the conversation ends after I get named and when I talk to my owner again the conversation restarts from the point where I put the Collar on

[Hex Bolt]

22 minutes ago, Clea Strange said:

No one would accept the Dragonborn being a slave even a willing one.

Exactly.  This mod makes the PC a slave, and a publicly humiliated one at that.  If someone plays as the true Dragonborn and a hero of the people, then don't use this mod unless you're willing to rationalize the situation in some way.

 

The term "Dragonborn" intentionally does not appear anywhere in Submissive Lola.  (The closest approach is the feature that causes vibrating devices to go wild when the PC absorbs a dragon soul.  I've proposed adding this feature to Devious Devices, where it's a better fit.  Kimy is considering doing so.  If that happens, I can remove it here.)

 

I appreciate the enthusiasm of the suggestions, but I really have no desire to add Dragonborn content here.  It's a submissive slavery mod.

[Hex Bolt]

22 minutes ago, Olek_Lump said:

Everytime I start the quest and  talk to my owner, the conversation ends after I get named and when I talk to my owner again the conversation restarts from the point where I put the Collar on

That's an unusual problem.  Since you earlier asked in the support topic for the 1.x version of the mod, I should ask which version are you using?  If it's a very old version, you really should update and try becoming a slave again.

 

If it's a newer version, you could try reinstalling the mod to be sure that all scripts are installed.  A missing script could cause the problem that you described.

 

Are you using a translated version of the mod?  I don't mean the language files in the Data\Interface\translations folder (they are safe to use), but the esp mod file itself.  Sometimes, the process that people use to translate the esp file can cause some parts to not work.  If you're using a translated version, try using the most recent non-translated version (2.0.55).  If that works, then there's a problem with the translated version.

[loniceraa]

11 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The effect is greater, of course, at higher daily decay values.  The loss of 2 points each day can probably be regained even at 90+, but losing 5 or more points every day could make reaching max score impossible (that would be appropriate for an owner who's impossible to satisfy, but this might not appeal to many players).  Conversely, if the decay is small, it would be manageable at high scores but barely noticeable at low scores.

 

Thanks for your reply.  I'm waiting for more feedback before making a decision.  I don't want to remove a feature that's important to players, but I do like to remove clutter from the settings when possible.

 

Making reaching max score (nearly?) impossible is part of the charm, to me. While I don't think having unscaled daily decay is essential, I think it is important to have *some* settings in the MCM that can be tweaked to manipulate difficulty at high versus low submission values.

 

I know this is counterproductive in the war against MCM setting bloat, but here are some other ideas for settings that could be more interesting:

 

1. Scaling owner boredom delay. At higher submission, owner might get bored faster.

 

2. Scaling (random) required daily service counts. At 0 you might only need to serve 1-2 times, at 30 1-4, 60 1-6, 90 1-8...

 

3. Scaling time limit for certain events, such as "Run, Lola, Run", "A Stewing Mistress", and "Tomb Raider".

 

Something like that might more organically put a ceiling on score, rather than just racing against ever increasing relative decay.

Edited October 6, 2022 by anyway ayway

[CaptainJ03]

9 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

If someone plays as the true Dragonborn and a hero of the people, then don't use this mod unless you're willing to rationalize the situation in some way.

Totally agreed on that. At the moment I am actually playing the Mainquest (about two years since I last did that) and although I have DD, DCL and Lola in my active mods, they are more or less disabled ingame, because I cannot really put those together with being the Hero that Saves The World.

 

About scaling of submission score loss: I always have that ticked on, and in the rare case I want to reach to 100, I disable score loss altogether.

 

 

28 minutes ago, anyway ayway said:

required daily service counts. At 0 you might only need to serve 1-2 times, at 30 1-4, 60 1-6, 90 1-8...

Uhmm, waking your owner in the middle of the night just to get your score right? Bad idea... ?

[shiagwen]

On 10/4/2022 at 9:42 AM, HexBolt8 said:

Yes, that is a bit of an exception.  When events are suspended, the mod isn't doing much, sort of like you can put your computer in sleep mode without fully powering it off.  At one point during testing, I noticed that the owner's arousal was 100, and it seemed strange that the owner couldn't simply demand sex, so I added an option for that one exception.

 

Probably not.  Since no rules are being enforced, the owner would have no reason to initiate spanking or whipping, and you can't ask for those things because the "Master/Mistress?" topic is gone while events are suspended.  I don't see a good reason to change that.  Suspending events is intended for short term use when the PC cannot function as a slave, such as when sent to prison or when doing the Battle of Whiterun and the PC is separated from the owner.  During that time, no rules are enforced (you can even remove the collar), and days are not counted toward contract time.  If you can't function as a slave, it seems reasonable that you don't get the "benefits" of a slave.

It is your mod and you can do what you want with it, but skyrim is a game meant to be let the player play it the way they want and not the way Bethesda want. They dont dictate and they give a lot of options.

you refuse options because they are not in the way you want it, though they do not break immersion, and you dont care that is is in the way other players want it.  I am not a developer, so i cant modify it by myself,, but if the mod forces me to use things in my game for a longer time, i dont play the mod.  sadly for the good parts of it. 

[Olek_Lump]

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's an unusual problem.  Since you earlier asked in the support topic for the 1.x version of the mod, I should ask which version are you using?  If it's a very old version, you really should update and try becoming a slave again.

 

If it's a newer version, you could try reinstalling the mod to be sure that all scripts are installed.  A missing script could cause the problem that you described.

 

Are you using a translated version of the mod?  I don't mean the language files in the Data\Interface\translations folder (they are safe to use), but the esp mod file itself.  Sometimes, the process that people use to translate the esp file can cause some parts to not work.  If you're using a translated version, try using the most recent non-translated version (2.0.55).  If that works, then there's a problem with the translated version.

I am using 2.055 without translation. I tried installing with vortex, might that be the problem? Its basically just installing the 7zip right? never really installed something thats not from nexus^^`. I have sexlab.esm etc. I tried reinstalling but it didn't solve the problem.  thanks for the response btw^^

[CaptainJ03]

1 hour ago, shiagwen said:

It is your mod and you can do what you want with it, but (...)

Yes, and that's the whole point. If too many people come along, damanding that the mod author, who is doing this for his leisure in his free time, do this and that, but contrary to his own wishes - he might do it once or twice before abandoning the mod.

 

It is okay to have suggestions, maybe there are ideas the author didn't have by himself, or new aspects to ideas where the last pinch of salt was missing.

But coming along, demanding to do this and that - that's really bad style. If you're not playing this mod, then don't. Couldn't care less. ☕

 

[CaptainJ03]

1 hour ago, Olek_Lump said:

I am using 2.055 without translation. I tried installing with vortex, might that be the problem?

No. Vortex does have its own problems, but installing mods isn't one of them.

Did you install this over an older version? If so, deactivate this in Vortex, look if there are script remnants in the Data/scripts folder that begin with vkj_ and remove them. Then re-enable it and you should be fine - at least from the point of Vortex doing silly things.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Olek_Lump said:

Its basically just installing the 7zip right?

Yes.  Installation is not complicated.

 

1 hour ago, Olek_Lump said:

never really installed something thats not from nexus

Check your installation of Devious Devices.  Some people get confused and install both versions 4 and 5, which is bad.  If you have version 5, you don't need any files from version 4.  Devious Devices 5 has everything (Assets, Integration, and Expansion) in one package.

[Hex Bolt]

11 hours ago, anyway ayway said:

Making reaching max score (nearly?) impossible is part of the charm, to me.

It's intended to be difficult, though of course a player can configure the settings to make it easy.

 

11 hours ago, anyway ayway said:

Scaling (random) required daily service counts. At 0 you might only need to serve 1-2 times, at 30 1-4, 60 1-6, 90 1-8...

As CaptainJ03 said, setting this requirement too high could make it impossible to achieve if you sleep for 8 hours.  That was probably your intent, but it's better to let the player make a clear choice to do that.

 

The next update will have a new daily requirement for minimum daily score, so you'll have another way to get in trouble (this one won't scale, so the challenge will be the same throughout enslavement).

 

Since point rewards decrease with higher score but penalties do not, you'll have another way to make reaching max feel like an achievement rather than an inevitable success.

[Olek_Lump]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Yes.  Installation is not complicated.

 

Check your installation of Devious Devices.  Some people get confused and install both versions 4 and 5, which is bad.  If you have version 5, you don't need any files from version 4.  Devious Devices 5 has everything (Assets, Integration, and Expansion) in one package.

oh my I installed every DD seperatly. will try so thanks I will tell you if it works^^

 

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, shiagwen said:

you refuse options because they are not in the way you want it, though they do not break immersion, and you dont care that is is in the way other players want it.

I often say that suggestions are welcome (and they are), because even if that exact idea doesn't work well, it could still trigger an idea for something similar that does work.  I've implemented many player suggestions, though sometimes in a modified form.  However, a slave mod for a heroic, mighty character doesn't work well, though players are free to use it that way and rationalize it.  The suggestions for official disapproval of the PC's enslavement as Dragonborn fell far enough outside the focus of the mod that it seemed best to just tell people that, so they wouldn't build up unfounded expectations or spend time making more.  It was the kindest way that I could think of to handle it.

 

A similar discussion came up for Laura's Bondage Shop, when players argued that it was not immersive because their Dragonborn characters were too powerful to be limited in the way that the mod's quests do.  Yes, if you can strangle a dragon with each hand while tap dancing, that character doesn't work for that kind of mod.  Rationalize it, or save that mod for a playthrough with a different character.

 

Within this mod's focus, there are many ways to customize the experience, so many that I keep looking for ways to simplify the MCM so that it doesn't become overwhelming, especially for new users.

 

You'll sometimes see a new modder who's so eager for approval that he'll add any suggestion, no matter bad a fit it is.  I'm not like that.  I've tried to maintain the mod's focus, to provide a consistent experience within its theme.  Part of that experience is that slavery in general and the PC's enslavement specifically are accepted, possibly reluctantly, possibly enthusiastically, but accepted.  Within that acceptance, individual NPCs will express their own views on Lola's status and behavior, but they accept that Lola is and likely will continue to be a slave.  

 

Analogies are often imperfect, but I'll offer a couple as examples of maintaining focus.

 

Spoiler

A group of players decide that Skyrim should have aliens, androids, and energy weapons.  They could have come through a portal from another plane of existence, so it doesn't break immersion, right?  Let's also throw in Arthur C. Clarke's argument that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.  The game developers would probably decline to add that kind of content because it breaks the focus of Skyrim on fantasy & magic.  They might suggest that players who want such things should simply play another game that offers such things, like Fallout or XCOM.

 

Ferrari makes luxury sports cars.  The brand is associated with "speed, luxury, and wealth".  A consumer group begins a campaign to get Ferrari to make SUVs and minivans.  What could go wrong?  SUVs and minivans are popular.  They're what the people want!  The company does that.  Before long, it's lost its focus on luxury racing cars.  Quality in the sports car division declines, the company decides to just eliminate the cars, and it becomes a manufacturer of affordable family-oriented vehicles.

 

[Hex Bolt]

24 minutes ago, Olek_Lump said:

oh my I installed every DD seperatly. will try so thanks I will tell you if it works

To be sure that the problem is gone, you will probably have to start a new game, unless you're good at removing mods and carefully cleaning the save file.  A new game is best for a major change like that.

[Hex Bolt]

Roleplay and storytelling are great devices for making any playthrough interesting and distinct from the others.  They're also good for rationalizing various situations.

 

The Dragonborn, the people's hero, has been awarded Lydia as housecarl.  But the DB is powerful and doesn't feel a need for a follower, so he leaves her at home to adventure solo -- and gets defeated, sold into slavery, and bought by some crazy gal who calls him "Lola".  As a dutiful housecarl, Lydia finds Crazy Gal and challenges her to a duel.

 

1.  Lydia loses and has to wear a collar, revealing clothing, and be the "playmate".  The arrangement seems odd to the people of Whiterun, but Lydia is a level-headed warrior so if she's going along with this, it must be okay.  The Divines work in mysterious ways.

 

2.  Lydia wins and makes Crazy Gal wear the collar and revealing outfit and be the playmate (just use the mod's Switch Owner feature.)  The DB's joy ends abruptly when Lydia informs him that as housecarl she must ensure his safety.  So, the collar stays on.  And you will call me Mistress.  Since you seemed to enjoy doing humiliating things, Mistress will be sure to give you lots and lots of what you need, my thane.  The people of Whiterun think it's strange to see the DB like this, but Lydia is the housecarl after all and assures everyone that the DB has a kinky nature and just loves this (the DB says mmm-MMPPH!!!!!).

 

Or, the DB is awarded Lydia because everyone in Dragonsreach is afraid of her, especially after that incident when Jarl Balgruuf got drunk and awoke wearing a pet suit, a muzzle gag, and a doggy collar that says "Lydia's Bitch".  He might have become Jarl Woof Woof if Irileth hadn't intervened.  The jarl happily foists off the court's closet dominatrix on the DB.  Good riddance, and if that guy is the true Dragonborn he'll be able to handle her.  If not, well, someone with that much power who isn't the real hero should be kept under control, and Lydia loves that sort of thing.

Edited October 6, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Olek_Lump]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

To be sure that the problem is gone, you will probably have to start a new game, unless you're good at removing mods and carefully cleaning the save file.  A new game is best for a major change like that.

It worked, thank you so much^^