Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Hellethia_]

58 minutes ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

If you're interested in chastity play, you might should check out Pet Project.

 

Thank you ! I know the Pet Project mod, sadly it's no longer working with DD 5.1
I tried it and there's a lot of messy stuff, especially with the collaring moment, as I'm already wearing the one from SLTR

[HexBolt8]

8 hours ago, Hellethia_ said:

I'm life contract and 100 sub, but i don't know what are the exact requirements for this quest.

If you can, try not to mention any details of the quest, so it can be a surprise for players who haven't seen it yet.  The event can start at a random time while your score is 100, in any walled city, hold capital, or orc stronghold.  Indoor locations lack those keywords, so you'll usually have to be outside.

[Naps-On-Dirt]

11 hours ago, Hellethia_ said:

- Do you plan to add chastity belt interaction in the mod ?

For the love of Mara please make any chastity involvement optional.

[blahity]

A chastity belt punishment might make a fun alternative to whipping for not fulfilling your duties to your Mistress. Kinda like in great grandpa's day if you got caught smoking cigarettes, great grandpa would force you to smoke a whole pack as punishment. Not focusing on Mistress pleasure, enjoy your punishment of inescapable pleasure. "Enjoy 24 hours naked in a belt with aggressive edging plugs, that way you can't do anything but think about your pleasure, since you clearly care so much about more than your responsibilities as my slave." Maybe an additional debuff to regen rates and/or move speed to make it extra punishing.

 

 "I bet you wish you had an ATTENTIVE slave to pleasure you right now, don't you slave? I hope I have a slave like that SOMEDAY, instead of the SELFISH slave I have now."

 

After 24 hours and apologizing to your Mistress, you get the "I'm not angry, just disappointed." Speech followed by a "Good slave sluts focus on their Mistress' pleasure. Don't disappoint me again!" 

 

 I think an inconvenient punishment with a longer duration would add another incentive to remember you exist for the pleasure of your Mistress, while not making the game a frustrating experience like long term chastity.

Edited December 20, 2021 by blahity

[transplantedgreener]

11 hours ago, Hellethia_ said:

 

Thank you ! I know the Pet Project mod, sadly it's no longer working with DD 5.1
I tried it and there's a lot of messy stuff, especially with the collaring moment, as I'm already wearing the one from SLTR

Hmmm...  I converted Pet Project from LE and it ran fine on DD 5.1.  But not with SLTR, so that may be the issue.

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

For the love of Mara please make any chastity involvement optional.

I forgot to comment on the chastity belt question earlier.  I've stayed away from those because they're limiting.  If you have to do prostitution or other forced sex, you're limited to oral (possibly anal, depending on belt design), and you lose oral too if you happen to get gagged.  Other mods can't be aware of why the belt was equipped.  If you're intended to wear it for a period of time, it would have to be flagged as a quest device to stop other mods from removing it, thereby blocking whatever fun things those mods might be trying to do.  If it's not flagged as a quest device, other mods might simply remove it and this mod would punish you for not having it.

 

If I were to add a belt event, it would be for a fairly brief period, to minimize conflicts with other mods.  However, there are other ways for the owner to keep Lola frustrated.  With masturbation denial enabled, Lola has to ask for sex, and if the owner isn't aroused that's likely to be refused.  Setting the vibration troll arousal high will keep Lola on edge.  Volunteering for prostitution might start to look good.  It's up to the player to decide how Lola gets relief, rather than locking her away and limiting options.

[Naps-On-Dirt]

22 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

 

I really hope it works on PW's end lol

 

My install is pretty busted and I couldn't get SLTR to select a buyer on my saves, so I'll need confirmation from someone using it that everything's fine. If not I'll get an update up very quickly for that.

Worked like a charm.  I didn't test to see what would happen if I tried to use it without a buyer selected though.

[Naps-On-Dirt]

Weirdest thing is happening to me right now as a new Lola.  My master won't follow me into buildings, and the weird part is that trying to console him in with moveto player isn't doing anything either.  ???  Never seen that happen before.  I had left him waiting for me, but I told him to follow immediately after becoming his Lola.   Trying to make him wait then follow isn't fixing it either.

 

Edit:  correction, moveto player IS working because I see the Talk To prompt for a split second, but then he's gone.  Very strange.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Naps-On-Dirt

[HexBolt8]

59 minutes ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

I didn't test to see what would happen if I tried to use it without a buyer selected though.

It's the same as the SS++ auction: the Strong Hand quest is started and you're told to seek out the benefactor who freed you.  Obviously one can exploit that, just as can be done for the slave auction.  The SS++ start and PW start use the same script, just a little different wording at the start, then they're the same.  I saw an opportunity for reuse of an existing feature that's (presumably at this point) tried and true.

 

26 minutes ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

My master won't follow me into buildings

The PW start (just like the SS++ start) recruits a potential follower using the standard vanilla function call.  If a follower framework replaces that function with its own version, you'll get that framework's version of it (which is good).  This has worked well for me with NFF, and there's been no reports of recruitment problems, but possibly you need to do something else with your follower framework to register the follower.

Edited December 21, 2021 by HexBolt8

[Antiope_Apollonia]

It's time to clean out my notes file again!  Incoming wall-o'-text.

 

• New kneeling dialogue looks great!  About half the time.  But it seems to be breaking the dialogue the other half.  After selecting, "Mistress?" the PC kneels, then the dialogue closes.  
  • Also broke out of dialogue once when Mistress beckoned to punish me, so maybe the root cause isn't connected the new kneeling functionality.  Dunno, it's way, way more common with "Mistress?" while kneeling, though.  
  • Also, for the timed kneeling, it feels a little too short.  I assume you're aiming to keep it to a length where the player won't be stuck in an animation when the dialogue is finished, but currently, that isn't even close to being a problem.  And it's short enough to look a little like she's exercising, lol.  
• Sometimes, the dialogues played after "mistress beckons" don't match what's happening.  Occasionally, the dialogue that plays isn't even from SLTR—just vanilla follower comments.  I haven't made any progress figuring out what's causing this.  
• "Run, Lola, Faster" doesn't actually accept "Locations" for completion.  It acknowledges "Location found", but the quest doesn't update.  Only cities complete the quest.  
• Is it possible to slow the "Groove" dance down like 20%?  Poor Antiope looks like she took way too many amphetamines with that one, but it'd be a great animation if it weren't quite so frenetic...
• I was given the "Clean Sweep" quest after having left the inn (and not because I ignored Mistress's beckon or anything, either), and then immediately failed because I wasn't in the inn.  I haven't been able to replicate it, though.  
• Mistress will beckon while you're in a Black Book, then get pissed that you can't possibly obey, warp in where followers aren't permitted, and punish you, then just kinda be stuck because I guess the Black Book areas aren't navmeshed or whatever.  This seems to be consistently replicable any time you spend time in a Black Book.  
• How about a maximum radius and/or angle, and/or required line of sight for Mistress to beckon?  Something akin to the mechanics of To Your Face (/Redux).  Getting beckoned whilst, for instance, descending a steep mountainside is invariably both weird and frustrating.  
• "You know what I want to hear you say" comments:
  • In line with my recent suggestion about general kneeling that you so graciously implemented, how about the option to proceed directly to the second dialogue and kneel without being told at high submission.  It feels like, at high submission, Antiope should have learnt that Mistress expects her to kneel when professing her devotion by now without having to be told every. single. time.
  • Mistress chastises you for not saying it more often, but unless I'm missing something, there's no option to tell her without being prompted?  Even if you want to leave that dialogue unchanged with a rationale to the effect of "more is always better," I'd appreciate the ability to at least try to satisfy her...
    • Maybe this could be integrated with "Mistress?" -> "About my being your slave" -> "I love you mistress" functionality?  Dunno.
• I use the SLTR Extension, which doesn't appear to be under any ongoing development, unfortunately, basically exclusively for the inn events.  Even in their current form in the Extension, they at least resolve an important continuity issue with the vanilla game for my RP assumptions, and the sleeping animation is adorable, but there's a ton of room for improvement if you were ever to think about building something like this into the main mod.  And I do think it'd be a great addition to the main mod; unlike most of the events in the Extension, this one isn't very intrusive—you can just push the sleep key and it's over as quickly as you like (i.e., it fits well within your comment in the Extension thread)—and it addresses a gameplay element that's quite unimmersive in the context of SLTR otherwise.  
  • One problem with the Extension version is that it's overly scripted.  This seems to plague a lot of the Extension from what I've seen.  Scripting the PC's movement just causes all sorts of trouble.  When Mistress needs to lead you somewhere, implementing it like you've done with the "Whiterun Walk" event works infinitely better.  e.g., I spent about 10 minutes stuck in a scripted walking animation trying to get down the stairs in the Bee and Barb with a couple of PAHE slaves in the way.  
  • The other thing is just a lack of configurability.  The sleep event has two versions to my knowledge, and as far as I can tell from a little save/reload experimentation, they're just random.  I like both events, but it's weird having both with equal status.  With my RP assumptions, I'd like to see Antiope (almost/) always sleep at the foot of the bed at high submission and (almost/) always sleep in bondage at low submission, but I'm guessing some people would prefer the reverse, while others would prefer to always favour one or the other at any score.
    • To that end, it'd be great to have two MCM sliders, 0%–100%, for the chance to be bound for sleeping at 0 submission and the chance at 100 submission.
  • A more minor opportunity for improvement would be more diversity in the bondage options.  As far as I can tell, the Extension has only one device/animation, and it's spawned for use rather than being persistent in the world.  I'd suggest that the most awesome implementation would be to have the devices permanently placed in discrete locations in each inn (basement if available, otherwise a back room or behind the bar or the like), and to place different devices in different inns to increase the flavour.  Personally, I'd be a big fan of having cages in some locales.  
    • Optional Display Model integration would be a huge bonus here—they're the best bondage furniture around by far—but I understand that'd be quite a bit more work.
  • Another minor issue is that triggering it by trying to sleep in the bed isn't really ideal.  Having that as an option is fine, but it's weird that it's impossible for Antiope to learn her lesson that beds are for Mistress and instead initiate it perhaps by asking Mistress if she's ready for bed.  Maybe going for the bed yourself should incur a small score penalty, and putting Mistress first should give you a small score increase.  
    • Bonus opportunity for Mistress to decide to give you one last task—e.g., get her nightcap or bedtime snack—while she sits on the side of the bed and waits, or maybe sex before bed.
  • If you're interested in taking this on, and there's anything I can do to help—delegating grunt work or whatever—please don't hesitate to ask!
• As alluded to in a previous comment, I had a note here to inquire about the trigger conditions for the "tagged" event.  (Spoiler tagged per your earlier comment.)
  Spoiler

  • In light of that exchange, perhaps instead I'll just say that it might be nice to increase the odds of the event occurring when you're at 100 submission; I've had to play for a really long time at 100 before getting the event despite really seeking it out.  
    • Also, for a pet collar, it's a little strange not having a name on it.  Maybe add a line for "Answers to 'Lola'"?
    • It'd be great to have optional SlaveTats integration for the "Something permanent" dialogue.  I know there's a branding event in the Extension, but even setting aside the fact that I've never managed to get the animation to play correctly, it's really unceremonious, and it's the ceremony and sense of achievement that come from Tagged that make it such an amazing event.
      • Bonus points for MCM-configurable location of the brand.
    • I know this would be really tough, but if you ever figure out a way to get the tag implemented visually as a collar attachment, I might die of excitement.  Even if you just have to assume the text is on the reverse side so it can't be read.  
    • Don't take this as criticism, because the event is already awesome, but fleshing out the event a bit more would be really great.  At least in my view, this is sort of like the crowning achievement of SLTR, so having a bit more interaction around it would be cool to reinforce the significance of the moment.  Maybe even Mistress let's her guard down just a tiny bit and admits her fondness for her loyal pet.  I know you're not an animator, but incorporating some kind of pet/caress animation in there somewhere would be beautiful, too.  
    • How about adding an idle dialogue into the pool that's only available after Tagged is complete and references it?  Maybe something like, "Aw, look how proud my pet is, prancing around with her shiny collar tag."
• Darkwood plugs are causing "Pony Express" to play the dialogue about the tail "not going to work", yet Mistress still correctly replaces my plug with the tail.  Is there something further I should be adding to my Darkwood SLTR patch to deal with this situation?  
• So in light of our previous discussion, I've been playing with the hair change feature, and I've found a way to use it that's enjoyable—basically alternating between an "up" do and a "down" do that are plausibly the same hair—but there's one thing that still bothers me.  A slave asking her mistress to change her hair back just doesn't feel in-character.  I can see two RP-friendly ways to change the hair: either Mistress makes the decision unilaterally, or Mistress delegates complete responsibility for looking pretty to the slave. 
  • In the latter case, this event doesn't apply, so that corresponds to disabling the event.  
  • In the former, maybe she should just change it back on her own after a certain period of time.  You could still have the current dialogue for naughty slaves to complain about their hair before Mistress is ready to change it.  There could even be a chance for her to accept, despite the impertinence.  
    • The other option I see would be if the change were just permanent, and then the MCM "new hairstyle" automatically updated to your old hairstyle, so the next time the event plays, it'd alternate.  (Of course, the player could still intervene with the MCM manually.)
  • I'd also really like to be able to configure the duration as well as the cooldown.  Since I'm playing this event basically as a "let your hair down" (think the cliché teen movie scene where the plain girl is transformed into prom queen by letting her pony tail down), it'd feel a lot better if the duration could be set to 0.5 days like most of your durations can, and then I'd set the cooldown to 1 day.  
• I'd love for the chance for Mistress to prefer to have sex with the PC vs. her playmate to be configurable.  I actually thought there was such an option, but when I went looking to change it, I couldn't find it—just the chance for Mistress to have the playmate administer spankings to the PC and such.  So unless I'm just derping... In my RP frame, Antiope's playmate is Mistress's primary sexual companion, while Antiope has a lot of responsibility delegated to her, so I'd like to be able to set the chance to like 70-80% for the playmate... maybe even higher to a point where Antiope gets jealous. ?

Edited December 21, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[Nymra]

Question:

 

Where is the kneeling pose with the hands behind back from?
I checked the meshes but it seems its not shipped with Lola itself, so I guess its a DD, Zap or vanilla pose?

 

thx alot

[griffinjohn59]

Alright, here's what's going on.

 

Popup says that "You may ask your master if they want anything"

 

Start dialogue with Master by selecting option: "May I be of Service"

 

Master Responds with: "Perhaps"

 

There is then a noticeable delay before the PC kneels, pressing the ` (Tilde) key opens up console and shows a massive wall of text streaming past saying "checking([SPELL < (Spell ID Number) Name of spell.  There are literally dozens of spells, mostly passive it seems from many different mods ranging from diseases to sexlab aroused status effects.  

 

Only after the wall of spells does the PC actually kneel.

 

then Master says "Enough. Stand Up"

 

there is another delay, during which yet again the wall of checking spells flies by.  this pattern seems consistent, for some reason every time the master NPC says something skyrim runs checks looking for passive spells, but only in the context of asking "May I be of Service."

 

I'll try running a new save and see if that has any effect.

 

Thanks, sorry for the long post.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

17 minutes ago, griffinjohn59 said:

Thanks, sorry for the long post.

Uhm... *looks around nervously*

[HexBolt8]

8 hours ago, Nymra said:

Where is the kneeling pose with the hands behind back from?

This mod does not provide any poses or animations of its own.  The standard kneeling pose with hands behind the back is ZazAPC016 from ZAP.  The alternate pose is DD_FT_CollarMe from DD.

 

7 hours ago, griffinjohn59 said:

There is then a noticeable delay before the PC kneels, pressing the ` (Tilde) key opens up console and shows a massive wall of text streaming past saying "checking([SPELL < (Spell ID Number) Name of spell.

I'm guessing that you have serious script load from another mod, possibly triggered by something in the kneeling scene.  In my game, kneeling occurs almost instantly.  This mod rarely writes to the console.  When it does, it has no output that starts with "checking".  The output that you're seeing might be a clue as to which mod is slowing your game.  The only significant activity that can take place when kneeling is the optional MCM setting to unequip slots when you kneel.  If you're using that, you could try turning it off, but it shouldn't be a huge load.  I use it myself to unequip 2 slots.

Edited December 21, 2021 by HexBolt8

[swmas]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

This mod does not provide any poses or animations of its own.  The standard kneeling pose with hands behind the back is ZazAPC016 from ZAP.  The alternate pose is DD_FT_CollarMe from DD.

 

I'm guessing that you have serious script load from another mod, possibly triggered by something in the kneeling scene.  In my game, kneeling occurs almost instantly.  This mod rarely writes to the console.  When it does, it has no output that starts with "checking".  The output that you're seeing might be a clue as to which mod is slowing your game.  The only significant activity that can take place when kneeling is the optional MCM setting to unequip slots when you kneel.  If you're using that, you could try turning it off, but it shouldn't be a huge load.  I use it myself to unequip 2 slots.

Maybe from this mod kneeling causes lag?

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/57939

[HexBolt8]

Spoiler

10 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

New kneeling dialogue looks great!  About half the time.

Are you referring to the 5-second kneel option?  It's new, and might have unintended consequences.  I don't think there's anything I can do to fix it, other than to decrease the kneeling time.  It's at 5 seconds because I was concerned that anything longer could cause problems.  Some responses will cause you to animate, which would break with a longer kneel.  I also have to account for impatient players who rapid-fire click through dialog.

 

10 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Sometimes, the dialogues played after "mistress beckons" don't match what's happening.

I'd need specific examples, with as close as possible to exact quotes, to have any real chance of tracking this down.

 

10 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Occasionally, the dialogue that plays isn't even from SLTR—just vanilla follower comments.

Probably random idle comments from other mods, which is outside the control of this mod.

 

10 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

"Run, Lola, Faster" doesn't actually accept "Locations" for completion.  It acknowledges "Location found", but the quest doesn't update.

For landmarks, the quest won't update.  When you see the "Landmark found" notification, talk to your owner to say that you've reached a landmark.  If your owner is lagging behind, you might have to run in a circle for a moment (staying near the location) while the owner catches up. 

 

10 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Is it possible to slow the "Groove" dance down like 20%?

No, it's from another mod, and I have no skill with animations.

 

10 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I was given the "Clean Sweep" quest after having left the inn

It's triggered by the vanilla room rental event.  You really shouldn't have time to get outside before the beckon, so I don't know what could have happened.  If you see it again, maybe you can spot a pattern.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Mistress will beckon while you're in a Black Book

The mod can't detect when you're in a "no followers" area.  It would be great if the game had a keyword for that, but it doesn't.  Unfortunately, you'll have to manually suspend the mod before you enter such an area.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Getting beckoned whilst, for instance, descending a steep mountainside is invariably both weird and frustrating.

I think I can add a check for elevation difference and pause the series of angry beckoning messages.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

"You know what I want to hear you say" comments:

For the next update, I added a condition to exclude "You don't say it enough..." if your score is high.  I'm leaving as-is "I want you to tell me that more often", since (as you noted), more is always better.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

It feels like, at high submission, Antiope should have learnt that Mistress expects her to kneel when professing her devotion by now without having to be told every. single. time.

I think I can do that.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'd appreciate the ability to at least try to satisfy her...

To be meaningful, this would have to have at least some chance of having an effect on how often you're told to say it, so the mod would have to track that.  I can add this to the list, but probably not a very high priority.

 

 

Part one reply to @Antiope_Appolonia 

[HexBolt8]

26 minutes ago, swmas said:

Maybe from this mod kneeling causes lag?

Hmm, probably not.  That mod seems to be fixing a vanilla kneel, whereas this mod uses kneeling poses from ZAP and DD.

[swmas]

6 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Hmm, probably not.  That mod seems to be fixing a vanilla kneel, whereas this mod uses kneeling poses from ZAP and DD.

The original mod which that one is based of says it triggers when the knee is at a certain angle. I didn't try either mod, I have a huge bloat as it is, so I don't know for sure.

[HexBolt8]

@Antiope_Appolonia reply part 2 

 

Spoiler

12 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I use the SLTR Extension, which doesn't appear to be under any ongoing development, unfortunately, basically exclusively for the inn events.  Even in their current form in the Extension, they at least resolve an important continuity issue with the vanilla game for my RP assumptions, and the sleeping animation is adorable, but there's a ton of room for improvement if you were ever to think about building something like this into the main mod.

The extension supplies its own sleeping animation.  So far, I've avoided providing animations.  I've also been careful not to tamper with sleeping, which might introduce incompatibility problems with mods that change sleep.  (This mod's clothes hiding prank relies on careful use of a vanilla game event, without touching existing functionality.)  This keeps things simple -- fewer moving parts to break.  Beyond that, I don't have permission to use assets from that mod, nor has its author put it up for adoption.

 

12 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Maybe going for the bed yourself should incur a small score penalty, and putting Mistress first should give you a small score increase.  Bonus opportunity for Mistress to decide to give you one last task—e.g., get her nightcap or bedtime snack—while she sits on the side of the bed and waits, or maybe sex before bed.

I think I can add a feature to (optionally) require that you ask permission to sleep, by asking Mistress if she's ready.  For maximum compatibility, you'd simply lose score if you don't ask first.  Otherwise, after asking, you'd click your bed and sleep normally.  A nightcap or sex first could also fit into asking permission.

 

[HexBolt8]

Part 3 reply to @Antiope_Appolonia

 

Spoiler

Spoilers for the 100 score event:

 

Spoiler

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

it might be nice to increase the odds of the [tagged] event occurring when you're at 100 submission; I've had to play for a really long time at 100 before getting the event despite really seeking it out.  

Possibly you were unlucky.  To detect the location keywords, you do have to be outside, so if a random event triggers inside then you won't see this one.  The tagged event is in the same group of events as the zaps.  Those seem to happen all the time, right?  If that group triggers and the conditions are met, the tagged event always wins over the other options in that group, like the zap (exception: if you failed offering service enough, the punishment for that one wins over tagged).

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Maybe add a line for "Answers to 'Lola'"?

I actually do that in my game, editing the json file.  I assume that the answers the player gives in-game are placeholders, and let the player edit them afterwards to the player's liking.  I'll make a note to look at "answers to", if it's not too much work to add.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

It'd be great to have optional SlaveTats integration for the "Something permanent" dialogue.

I don't like marking Lola.  This mod will never disfigure Lola in any way.  However, if it's by choice, and for a special event, that could fit.  However, although I use SlaveTats I'm not familiar with how to use it in a mod, so I'd have to learn.  I can also see problems with player selection of the tattoo.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

if you ever figure out a way to get the tag implemented visually as a collar attachment, I might die of excitement.  Even if you just have to assume the text is on the reverse side so it can't be read.  

The DD "Pet Collar" has a tag that says "Pet" in the front; you can use your imagination for the back.  The collar doesn't look very sturdy, but at this point Lola won't want to remove it.  As you can guess, adding an actual worn item that lines up with any of the collars out there is impractical. 

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

fleshing out the event a bit more would be really great.

Choosing your reward at the end was intended to cap out the event.  What other time does your owner ask what you want?  I'm also trying to keep language vague enough to cover a broad range of owner attitudes.  Something like your suggestion could fit if the mod ever has owner attitude settings.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

How about adding an idle dialogue into the pool that's only available after Tagged is complete and references it?  Maybe something like, "Aw, look how proud my pet is, prancing around with her shiny collar tag."

I'm surprised that I didn't think of that.  I should do this now.

Edit:  I just used your working.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Darkwood plugs are causing "Pony Express" to play the dialogue about the tail "not going to work", yet Mistress still correctly replaces my plug with the tail.

I think you might be clicking through dialog too quickly.  Checking and equipping devious devices takes time (especially with DD4, and I haven't updated the mod yet to take advantage of DD5's new faster functions).  All that talk while you're getting outfitted is actually for the purpose of slowing you down.  Each of the things the owner says is like a speed bump, encouraging you to wait and read while a script runs in the background to equip you.  The script to equip the tail sets a variable when it's done to indicate its success.  If a player clicks through too fast, the script will still eventually finish its work to equip the tail, but the success variable gets set too late for the next line of dialog.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

A slave asking her mistress to change her hair back just doesn't feel in-character.

Perhaps you can elaborate on this, but from my perspective, the owner controls your appearance and changes your hair.  It's about losing control to the owner.  And you have to ask permission to get the old style back, underscoring the owner's control.  As a practical matter, if you have to ask, it's going to be at a good time.  If the event simply times out, that might be at an awkward or unrealistic moment (combat, sex, swimming, etc.).  The mod could test for conditions like that, but if it's a bad time then it would have to go into a loop of periodically checking to see if it's okay.  That's extra work and complexity, whereas asking is simple, effective, and (to my thinking) submissive.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'd also really like to be able to configure the duration as well as the cooldown.

That's on my list.  It probably would have gone into the last update, but the error that could cause the SLUTS event to sometimes get stuck with SLUTS Resume was serious enough that I wanted to release what I had quickly.

 

15 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'd love for the chance for Mistress to prefer to have sex with the PC vs. her playmate to be configurable.

I'll look at that, but no promises.  It will depend on how complex that is.  It might seem simple enough, but there's a lot of branches.

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by HexBolt8

[Snook001]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think I can add a feature to (optionally) require that you ask permission to sleep, by asking Mistress if she's ready.  For maximum compatibility, you'd simply lose score if you don't ask first.  Otherwise, after asking, you'd click your bed and sleep normally.  A nightcap or sex first could also fit into asking permission.

I would love that

 

[HexBolt8]

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Getting beckoned whilst, for instance, descending a steep mountainside is invariably both weird and frustrating.

I've added an elevation difference check to determine if the owner should beckon.  It will be used in various situations for checking if the player is "busy".

[shiagwen]

hex how did you made the playmates nipple piercings invisible ? by script ?  i never had problems with piercings looking through clothing so i want them visible

[HexBolt8]

49 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

how did you made the playmates nipple piercings invisible ?

By creating a new nipple studs devious device item.

 

49 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

i never had problems with piercings looking through clothing so i want them visible

The nipple studs are only used if you ask the owner to equip them on the playmate.  If you prefer for the playmate to wear something else, just equip whatever you want on that character.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Are you referring to the 5-second kneel option?  It's new, and might have unintended consequences.  I don't think there's anything I can do to fix it, other than to decrease the kneeling time.  It's at 5 seconds because I was concerned that anything longer could cause problems.  Some responses will cause you to animate, which would break with a longer kneel.  I also have to account for impatient players who rapid-fire click through dialog.

It's not related to the duration.  When the dialogue breaks, it happens instantaneously.  You say "Mistress?" and the PC kneels and the dialogue closes essentially simultaneously.  Then you stay kneeling for a few seconds, but nothing else happens.  You can talk to Mistress and try again right away. 

 

As to the duration, it seems like you use 4 second Fus Ro Doh dialogues for everything (which often feels a little long, by the way, but not a huge deal), so you only have one second of kneeling left by the time the next dialogue even opens.  I think you're safe from anyone getting into animation trouble with that.  

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'd need specific examples, with as close as possible to exact quotes, to have any real chance of tracking this down.

I'm fairly confident that whatever's going on isn't related to the specific dialogues.  I've seen it happen enough times with enough different dialogues that that seems implausible.  I'll try to look out for specific examples, but basically it goes like: Mistress Beckons -> Mistress says something -> What Antiope does in response to Mistress's order doesn't match the dialogue.  

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Probably random idle comments from other mods, which is outside the control of this mod.

No, it's vanilla follower dialogue. 

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For landmarks, the quest won't update.  When you see the "Landmark found" notification, talk to your owner to say that you've reached a landmark.  If your owner is lagging behind, you might have to run in a circle for a moment (staying near the location) while the owner catches up. 

Oh, jesus, that's really counterintuitive.  I'll try talking to Mistress and see how it works.  Can you give me setstage info to force this event for testing? 

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

No, it's from another mod, and I have no skill with animations.

Hmm.  Pity.  Would incorporating "sgtm 0.8" at the start of the animation and "sgtm 1" at the end be a viable workaround? O_o I guess maybe not a great idea, but I don't have anything better, lol.  

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It's triggered by the vanilla room rental event.  You really shouldn't have time to get outside before the beckon, so I don't know what could have happened.  If you see it again, maybe you can spot a pattern.

I have no idea if this is what happened anymore, but the only idea that occurs to me trying to think more about it now would be what if Mistress was having sex with the playmate when I talked to the innkeeper, and the sex animation ended right as we left the hotel?  Also, I don't know how this didn't make it into my notes, but I just remembered that this happened in the course of renting the "attic room" in Riverwood for the Dragonborn questline, and we left the inn with Delphine to head to Kynesgrove when the bug occurred, so I don't know if that could have behaved differently than renting a normal room.  That should at least narrow down one thing to test.

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The mod can't detect when you're in a "no followers" area.  It would be great if the game had a keyword for that, but it doesn't.  Unfortunately, you'll have to manually suspend the mod before you enter such an area.

Each black book has an associated quest.  Couldn't you detect quest stages?  Not a perfect solution, but a lot better than the current status quo.  Or perhaps you could detect something else that's unique to the Black Book environments, like maybe the interaction with the "Chapter" books that move the PC to the next stage?

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think I can add a check for elevation difference and pause the series of angry beckoning messages.

That sounds like a good idea.

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For the next update, I added a condition to exclude "You don't say it enough..." if your score is high.  I'm leaving as-is "I want you to tell me that more often", since (as you noted), more is always better.

[...]

I think I can do that.

Awesome—looking forward to trying it!

 

10 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

To be meaningful, this would have to have at least some chance of having an effect on how often you're told to say it, so the mod would have to track that.  I can add this to the list, but probably not a very high priority.

Personally, I don't think that'd be necessary, but fair enough.  It'd certainly be better if it worked that way, at any rate.  

 

9 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The extension supplies its own sleeping animation.  So far, I've avoided providing animations.  [...] Beyond that, I don't have permission to use assets from that mod, nor has its author put it up for adoption.

Well, if you were to support Display Model for my dream implementation of this feature, that'd also bring a quite similar animation (below) you could use.  Display Model uses the animation for sleeping in a cage, but it'd work fine sans cage; maybe not quite as adorable as the Extension's sleeping animation, but close enough.  But forgive me if this is an impertinent question, but is there reason to think you wouldn't be granted permission to use the Extension's animation if you asked?  My impression has been that most of the LoversLab community is pretty magnanimous when it comes to sharing assets.  Failing those options, another would be to use the vanilla laying on the ground animation by default (laying on the back, hands folded behind the head, ankles crossed)—AYGAS slaves use this to sleep by their mistresses' beds.  Then you could have optional integration with the Extension, and if that mod is detected, you'd be able to use an MCM toggle (similar to the kneeling animation toggle) to switch to the Extension's sleeping animation.  Maybe a bit overelaborate, but I'm pretty sure it's workable.  I don't know how you do it, but you can even disable the Extension's version of the event from the SLTR MCM.  (I don't know how he does it, but @TrollAutokill has figured out how to make the DoM MCM control PAHE MCM settings.)

Spoiler

 

9 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I've also been careful not to tamper with sleeping, which might introduce incompatibility problems with mods that change sleep.  (This mod's clothes hiding prank relies on careful use of a vanilla game event, without touching existing functionality.)  This keeps things simple -- fewer moving parts to break. 

Well, as long as the event can be disabled in the MCM, I don't see that being an issue.  It could even be disabled by default.  I can't think of mods that SLTR users would be likely to have that would conflict here, but I'm curious what you have in mind (maybe there's something I've never heard of that I should be using? lol).  

 

It seems like it'd be worth making some allowances to implement something like this.  Right now, SLTR basically disincentivises players from sleeping since vanilla sleeping is so unimmersive in the RP context of SLTR.  But a better sleep event in the mould of the Extension's would not only resolve this continuity issue, but it would really add something substantial to Lola's relationship with her Mistress.  

 

9 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think I can add a feature to (optionally) require that you ask permission to sleep, by asking Mistress if she's ready.  For maximum compatibility, you'd simply lose score if you don't ask first.  Otherwise, after asking, you'd click your bed and sleep normally.  A nightcap or sex first could also fit into asking permission.

That wouldn't be a bad addition, but honestly, I don't know if it'd get used much if it isn't accompanied by the rest of the event.  I'd still feel disincentivised to sleep, because the slave taking the bed—in what the mod acknowledges is "Mistress's room"—is so unimmersive.  Maybe it'd be nice in combination with the Extension's existing event, but I'm not sure that's worth building around since the current implementation is so buggy.  

 

Submission 100 event:

Spoiler

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Possibly you were unlucky.

Hmm.  Sounds like maybe, but I've experienced it being hard to come by twice, and another user recently reported the same thing.  Could there be another event blocking it?  I'm not sure, and it's really hard to test this since it's such a rare circumstance.  Is there any way I can force the submission score to 100 for testing?  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I actually do that in my game, editing the json file.

I can pretty much guarantee the majority of users are never going to edit a .json for that.  If it could be set up through the MCM and saved in the configuration file, that'd be okay, but even editing the MCM isn't the most immersive experience, and editing files outside the game is just a threshold most people aren't going to cross.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'll make a note to look at "answers to", if it's not too much work to add.

It could just be my ignorance, but I'd think it should be pretty trivial.  You'd just need to insert one more dialogue line in the conversation with the blacksmith—Smith: "And what does your mistress call you?"  PC: "'Lola,' sir/ma'am."  And then add one additional line to the infopane that results.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I don't like marking Lola. 

In general, I don't either.  But a simple, not-overly-conspicuous brand that represents something positive for Lola doesn't put me off.  And I know a lot of folks really like that stuff.  And, as mentioned, it'd be optional regardless.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

However, although I use SlaveTats I'm not familiar with how to use it in a mod, so I'd have to learn.  I can also see problems with player selection of the tattoo.

Fair enough.  So I'll file this under "wait and see," I reckon.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The DD "Pet Collar" has a tag that says "Pet" in the front; you can use your imagination for the back.  The collar doesn't look very sturdy, but at this point Lola won't want to remove it.

Yeah, if there were a more immersive way to swap to that collar in the course of the event, it might be a kinda decent solution.  But if you've been wearing it all game, it doesn't really have the effect, and if you have to swap to it yourself after the event, it isn't very immersive.  Plus, that collar just isn't very... collar-y; it almost might as well just be a choker necklace.  And it doesn't match any other devices; personally, Antiope always wears a matching collar and cuffs.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

As you can guess, adding an actual worn item that lines up with any of the collars out there is impractical. 

Yeah, as I said, I know it's a long shot.  I just wanted to mention that, if you ever do figure out a way to do it, the impact would be large.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Choosing your reward at the end was intended to cap out the event.  What other time does your owner ask what you want?  I'm also trying to keep language vague enough to cover a broad range of owner attitudes.  Something like your suggestion could fit if the mod ever has owner attitude settings.

I don't really have great ideas off the top of my head.  If you can give me the setstage info to force the event, I can play around with it and see what I can come up with.  It's too rare to have much time to think about it naturally.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'm surprised that I didn't think of that.  I should do this now.

Edit:  I just used your working.

Awesome, can't wait!

 

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think you might be clicking through dialog too quickly. 

I don't think this is likely to be the culprit; I'm not a frenetic dialogue clicker generally, and the equipping scripts are working fine anyway—the problem is just that the dialogue doesn't match the actions.  But can you give me the setstage info to force this event for testing?  I'll try to get to the bottom of what's going on and come back with clearer information.  

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Perhaps you can elaborate on this, but from my perspective, the owner controls your appearance and changes your hair.  It's about losing control to the owner.

Exactly—I agree completely.  That's why I find it weird that, once the three days have elapsed, the player has de facto control, since you can ask to change it back or you can leave it changed as long as you want—the player gets to decide when the reversion happens.

 

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

As a practical matter, if you have to ask, it's going to be at a good time.  If the event simply times out, that might be at an awkward or unrealistic moment (combat, sex, swimming, etc.).  The mod could test for conditions like that, but if it's a bad time then it would have to go into a loop of periodically checking to see if it's okay.  That's extra work and complexity, whereas asking is simple, effective, and (to my thinking) submissive.

I wouldn't suggest it should just time out instantly, but what I had in mind is more like, once the duration has elapsed, a reversion event is added to the pool of "beckon"/"offer service" events.  I guess you could force it to be the highest priority event in the pool, but I don't even think that'd be necessary.  I think this approach would be much easier and less problematic than what you've described, but maybe I'm missing something.  

 

One additional comment I just remembered while digging through the MCM to write this post: Maybe the Submissive Lola book in the world should be set to be unowned so the player doesn't have to commit theft to acquire it?  I usually force start the quest before even leaving the LAL starter cell at this point, but I remember having been bugged by that.  

Edited December 22, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia